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Daredevil Seasons 1 and 2 were ok, 2 was maybe worse than 1. Jessica Jones was also ok but had horrible pacing (i think Killgrave was introduced too early). Luke Cage started strong but got worse as it went. I haven't watched Iron Fist yet. Out of all of them that I've seen, they're all still better than the 1st half of Agents of SHIELD Season 1. Also I think it's been mentioned already but I do like how this season has had 3 distinct (but connected) story arcs. I think it has worked really well. Doing 22 episodes about essentially the same thing really drags (even the 13 eps of the Netflix shows does).
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Mar 21, 2017 12:43
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irlZaphod posted:Also I think it's been mentioned already but I do like how this season has had 3 distinct (but connected) story arcs. I think it has worked really well. Doing 22 episodes about essentially the same thing really drags (even the 13 eps of the Netflix shows does). The three-act structure for seasonal construction has been around for a while; most genre shows easily fall into it. This is particularly true of 22 episode seasons, largely bolstered by the need to insert climaxes during the sweep ratings periods, who tend to coincide with act climaxes. For example, every season of any Mutant Enemy show largely tracks this way, from SHIELD to Buffy. For its faults, Iron Fist gets some very basic structural things correct that several other Netflix shows gently caress up (Luke Cage being a primary example, but several other Netflix shows fail this), in terms of pacing its acts and treating episodes like individual nuggets of content.
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Mar 21, 2017 13:01
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Yakmouth posted:I'm still working through Iron Fist but I'm liking it lots. I've only seen episode 1 so far, but it seems really meh. I'll probably finish it because I'm terrible. It's not just that it's an origin story, it just feels like such a retread. Marvel stole half the plot of Batman Begins when they made Dr Strange, now we know where the other half of that stolen plot went.
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Mar 21, 2017 13:12
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DD Season 1 is almost a perfect series. The last episode, specifically the ending, feels mildly rushed but otherwise the show is perfect. You have developed villains (and plenty to set up for later), a supporting cast that had chemistry, and some pretty drat good stunts with Daredevil. Jessica Jones mostly had a solid show, though I think it dragged a bit in the middle, but I believe it ended strong. Luke Cage is the only one I haven't re-watched. First half was pretty strong, but the second half loving sucked. Still Coulter rocks as Cage and it is worth watching for that alone. Iron Fist is just aggressively mediocre with flashes of being horrible. I can't say I've seen one genuinely good scene...well, except for Ward giving his dad the finger.
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Mar 21, 2017 13:24
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Open Source Idiom posted:The three-act structure for seasonal construction has been around for a while; most genre shows easily fall into it. This is particularly true of 22 episode seasons, largely bolstered by the need to insert climaxes during the sweep ratings periods, who tend to coincide with act climaxes. For example, every season of any Mutant Enemy show largely tracks this way, from SHIELD to Buffy. Compare last season with this season and it's night and day. A lot of shows struggle with pacing on season-long arcs.
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Mar 21, 2017 13:28
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notthegoatseguy posted:
Yeah I would divide Luke Cage into two parts because once they finished off Cottonmouth and introed the magic bullet they dropped into goofy comics territory (Toaster in the bath to shock him back to life? oh jeez). I feel there was more to the Mariah/Cottonmouth history that could have played out and also been compared to Luke's childhood (with Diamondback). I so far have enjoyed Iron Fist, but I also enjoyed AoS from the beginning, so maybe I'm just broken 
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Mar 21, 2017 13:52
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JJ is my favorite Netflix show and is also the one I will never go back to rewatch. That show is so goddamn oppressive with how it tosses it's themes at you that I was loving it but physically got ill while watching it.
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Mar 21, 2017 14:02
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I liked Iron Fist, but a slightly better show set around these events would have been The Adventures of Colleen Wing and her goofy mystical-kung-fu boyfriend
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Mar 21, 2017 15:40
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Dexo posted:JJ is my favorite Netflix show and is also the one I will never go back to rewatch. I used to think Iron Man 3 was the MCU's story about PTSD Then I saw JJ It is SO good, but SO intense.
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Mar 21, 2017 15:59
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irlZaphod posted:There's a big difference between a season-long arc split into a clear beginning-middle-end, and what Agents of SHIELD is doing this season, though. Yeah, I think genre shows tend to break into 2 parts that connect pretty clearly. Its basically a midseason cliffhanger that resolves some mystery or initial threat to introduce a much bigger one. Sometimes they have more distinct 2 parts that stand alone, SHIELD seemed to do that the last season or two. But this season of SHIELD's the only one I can think of that has 3 distinct parts. Although the Ghost Rider section kind of stands alone while the LMD one doesn't really get resolved but just builds up into the Hydra part more like the usual thing. Overall I just think its good that they're pacing their stories to how much they think it needs and the fact that they're managing to match it with teh long breaks in airing is also good for viewing. So if next season (if there is a next season so all the "its getting cancelled" people don't jump down my throat) it has 2 parts because that's what they think is the right pacing, cool.
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Mar 21, 2017 17:56
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Yakmouth posted:I'm still working through Iron Fist but I'm liking it lots. I don't want to get all comic book nerd, but for being an Origin Story they removed absolutely *all* the interesting parts of Iron Fist's story. Every time they set up a scene for rich flashback... nothing "Oh this is a perfect segue to K'un-L'un where he... nope" "Oh, this is where we get him training to... nope" It's just a flat story that tells you *nothing* about Danny Rand other than he sticking rich and is also Iron FIst.
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Mar 22, 2017 03:17
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Mind boggling that they don't utilize the most unique elements about Iron Fist. Why didn't they just choose any of the dozens "good at kick punching" type guys without powers in Marvel? Because that's all Danny is in this show.
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Mar 22, 2017 04:36
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I thought episode 2 was better than the first, but not, you know, a lot. I'm mostly watching at this point because the old lady from DDS1 was in the previews.
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Mar 22, 2017 04:44
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flosofl posted:I don't want to get all comic book nerd, but for being an Origin Story they removed absolutely *all* the interesting parts of Iron Fist's story. That's a fair criticism, it is. I liked the show anyway  What I'd meant with my comment is that, just like the other Defenders, Danny starts the series off with his powers right away but he hasn't yet learned how to be a hero. So I guess I'm more forgiving of Danny being pretty emotionally stunted throughout the show. I've been told people enjoy character development from their leads -- if Danny starts episode 1 as a master of zen with all his poo poo together, well where's he supposed to go from there? Even as I'm typing this out I can counter-argue what I just wrote (I'm a fanboy but I'm not critically blind). Unlike the other defenders Danny finishes his show not knowing how to be a hero; he's just as messed up (arguably more) as when he started. That's disappointing. To me, Iron Fist didn't feel like a Netflix Mini-series the way Jessica Jones or Luke Cage did. Iron Fist felt like the first half of a network show that got cancelled mid season. It felt like it didn't finish, it just ended (if that makes sense). I enjoyed it just fine, and I have a knee-jerk reaction to defend the things I like. But honestly, it's not a hill I'd be willing to die on. I can't argue against the Iron Fist people wanted (Asian-American lead, MMA lead, more focus on the mystical elements of the source material), this show is obviously not that. All I can say is that taken on its own terms, I thought the show was a good thirteen hours spent. Yakmouth fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 06:49
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Aside from the lackluster fighting, my biggest complaint was: why is Gau part of the Hand? How is that a thing? There was no connection to that in Daredevil, she was doing her own thing.
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Mar 22, 2017 07:50
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Soonmot posted:Aside from the lackluster fighting, my biggest complaint was: why is Gau part of the Hand? How is that a thing? There was no connection to that in Daredevil, she was doing her own thing.
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Mar 22, 2017 12:40
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Soonmot posted:Aside from the lackluster fighting, my biggest complaint was: why is Gau part of the Hand? How is that a thing? There was no connection to that in Daredevil, she was doing her own thing. I'm more concerned that the show introduces, and then forgets, that she has telekinesis I cant remember if she's every made explicitly NOT Hand in DD. DD S1 has her being all weird and mystical, and Nobou being a random ninja, and S2 retcons him into being Hand, right? Strom Cuzewon fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 12:45
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Nobu was part of the organization handling the Black Sky stuff, which is pretty much Hand property isn't it?
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Mar 22, 2017 12:51
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I'm more concerned that the show introduces, and then forgets, that she has telekinesis achillesforever6 fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 13:02
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[spoiler] [/quote]? God how do I even manage to tie my shoelaces.
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Mar 22, 2017 13:36
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flosofl posted:I don't want to get all comic book nerd, but for being an Origin Story they removed absolutely *all* the interesting parts of Iron Fist's story. It isn't even about being a comic book nerd (I am not one). Making his struggle between defending K'un-L'un and defending our world a more difficult one would have been good! Making his training turn out to be useful would have been good (it worked in The Karate Kid)! Giving him a conflict other than "I am an idiot and blunder into everything with my heart on my sleeve" would have been good!
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Mar 22, 2017 14:56
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achillesforever6 posted:They wanted to streamline the big villain for the Defenders so everything turns out to be part of the Hand It's also mildly racist because all asians are the same and interchangeable, amirite?
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Mar 22, 2017 15:29
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I'm more concerned that the show introduces, and then forgets, that she has telekinesis Doesn't she leak some information to Matt about Nobu because the Hand were squeezing her out of her turf in Season 2? I also don't buy the 'they couldn't do a Shang Chi show instead because they don't have the rights Fu Manchu' since they could have easily made him Madame Gao's son instead. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 16:06
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:
Or they could just call him Zheng Zu.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:30
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Or keep Danny and they could have gone with the original actor they had in mind before Loeb/Perlmutter stepped in; http://m.imdb.com/name/nm1167985/?ref_=m_ttfcd_cl42
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Mar 22, 2017 17:11
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Or keep Danny and they could have gone with the original actor they had in mind before Loeb/Perlmutter stepped in; I don't know if we can blame Loeb or Perlmutter for anything. Lots of the problems (poor pacing, poor characterization) are seen in other Netflix shows and in many cases their producers/directors said they've had nearly complete freedom; its just these problems weren't mitigated by a competent showrunner so we got this trash that doesn't really say anything, nor is it overtly entertaining. It is just trash.
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Mar 22, 2017 17:34
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I mean, Iron Fist is way more tied to Cage, Jones, and DD than Shang Chi or anyone else, no? It doesn't seem at all surprising me that they they'd want him with the Defenders and that they'd make him more "street" and grounded to fit the rest of them. More "Heroes for Hire", less "dragons." Admittedly, I still haven't watched it so I'm flying blind.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:00
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STAC Goat posted:I mean, Iron Fist is way more tied to Cage, Jones, and DD than Shang Chi or anyone else, no? It doesn't seem at all surprising me that they they'd want him with the Defenders and that they'd make him more "street" and grounded to fit the rest of them. More "Heroes for Hire", less "dragons." He's not grounded. It takes a few episodes before he even wears shoes . . . or showers . . . or changes his clothing. Iron Fist's nuanced strategies for dealing with enemies are 1) go in the front door, punching, and 2) sneak in, punching on the way out. He fights to retain control of a company he visits two or three of times for company (i.e. not anti-Hand) business. Like, yes, he's more grounded than putting Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Daredevil with the Angel Summoner, but compared to the other Defenders, he is absolutely the group's BMX Bandit.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:07
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Well I was just going by the idea that people seem to really want him to be dealing with dragons and crazy mystical magical poo poo but like the entire point of the Defenders' shows are they're street level New York City heroes so that was probably never going to be a big part of Iron Fist S1. But I should really stop commenting on a show I haven't watched. I'm being dumb.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:35
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Or keep Danny and they could have gone with the original actor they had in mind before Loeb/Perlmutter stepped in; Was this a fan casting or was this seriously an option the studio had? Where'd you hear about this?
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Mar 22, 2017 18:38
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STAC Goat posted:Well I was just going by the idea that people seem to really want him to be dealing with dragons and crazy mystical magical poo poo but like the entire point of the Defenders' shows are they're street level New York City heroes so that was probably never going to be a big part of Iron Fist S1. There's actually a pretty funny scene where a guy from K'un Lun is explaining the whole dragon thing to a character from New York. "You mean like a komodo dragon, a big lizard?" "No, a gigantic dragon." "Did he have to kill it? "Ha ha no, the dragon is undying!"
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Mar 22, 2017 18:41
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Pan Dulce posted:Was this a fan casting or was this seriously an option the studio had? Where'd you hear about this? The actor himself, they brought him in to read for Danny a few times before they went with Finn Jones for the GoT connection. Given what he did with the small role they ended up giving him I can't believe they decided on Jones because he was the better actor.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:47
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STAC Goat posted:Well I was just going by the idea that people seem to really want him to be dealing with dragons and crazy mystical magical poo poo but like the entire point of the Defenders' shows are they're street level New York City heroes so that was probably never going to be a big part of Iron Fist S1. Then why choose Iron Fist if you're not going to use any of the things that makes Iron Fist unique than the hundreds of other characters whose abilities boil down to "super skilled kick puncher"? I don't think it is an unrealistic expectation to expect to see a dragon when it is mentioned several times and is how the character in question got his one super power.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:47
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notthegoatseguy posted:Then why choose Iron Fist if you're not going to use any of the things that makes Iron Fist unique than the hundreds of other characters whose abilities boil down to "super skilled kick puncher"? I don't think it is an unrealistic expectation to expect to see a dragon when it is mentioned several times and is how the character in question got his one super power. Because Iron Fist is really deeply tied to the other Defenders, especially Luke Cage, so fits into the picture in that sense? That's my point. I never read a lot of Iron Fist but my take has always been that there's basically two sides of him. The "punching dragon" stuff and the "Heroes for Hire" stuff. Iron Fist wasn't just placed with the Defenders because he's "punchy kicky". In the comics he's Luke Cage's best friend and longtime partner, the godfather to Cage and Jones' kid, and WAS Daredevil for awhile to help Matt. Most of my personal knowledge of Iron Fist comes from his appearances with these other characters in their books and stories. Like, my hope for "Phase 2" of the Netflix series' is more intermingling where Cage returns to JJ S2, Rand joins Cage S2 for a Heroes for Hire thing, and maybe Fist S2 expands on some of the more out there Iron Fist stuff.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:55
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I am hoping that the thing that unifies the four heroes isn't "bad guys killed Claire Temple." With SHIELD, they started out nominally as a team and stuff went the other way.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:00
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homullus posted:I am hoping that the thing that unifies the four heroes isn't "bad guys killed Claire Temple." With SHIELD, they started out nominally as a team and stuff went the other way. Oh my god that would be awful, I hate you for putting this in my brain and making me sure they're going to do it now
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Mar 22, 2017 19:03
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Arist posted:Oh my god that would be awful, I hate you for putting this in my brain and making me sure they're going to do it now I mean, what else is going to make Luke Cage risk prison again and make Jessica Jones lay off the sauce and put herself at risk again? Daredevil and Iron Fist will fight bad guys, especially the Hand, without being asked twice, but the other two . . . especially if Claire and Luke Cage are dating . . . That's actually my question for Agents of Hydra too -- if they're not all even working for SHIELD/HYDRA, what's going to get them working together and staying together?
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Mar 22, 2017 19:09
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The Whedons aren't involved, so their tired old schtick shouldn't apply. Seriously, they've done it to death, and it's lost all meaning now.homullus posted:I mean, what else is going to make Luke Cage risk prison again and make Jessica Jones lay off the sauce and put herself at risk again? Daredevil and Iron Fist will fight bad guys, especially the Hand, without being asked twice, but the other two . . . especially if Claire and Luke Cage are dating... OTOH, this is a pretty valid argument in favor of it happening... Also, there's a thread for the Netflix stuff. Kheldarn fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Mar 22, 2017 |
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Mar 22, 2017 19:10
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homullus posted:I am hoping that the thing that unifies the four heroes isn't "bad guys killed Claire Temple." With SHIELD, they started out nominally as a team and stuff went the other way. That would actually be a great way to tie the Netflix stuff to AoS and even the MCU to some degree. A post credits scene of Claire waking up in a hospital. Phil is there and says "Died to bring the team together huh?" "Yep" *Phil gives an understanding, sympathetic nod* *Rosario Dawson joins AoS*
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Mar 23, 2017 02:50
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Finally caught up with the thread.cant cook creole bream posted:In this timeline, Coulson wasn't around. So May became buddies with Garret instead. I'd love to see Bill Paxton again. This is really sad to me.
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Mar 24, 2017 17:11
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