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Shy posted:https://www.frostkeep.com/ Honestly the survival genre is "Everything more difficult than it has to be: The Game" so maybe they finally found their niche.
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Mar 22, 2017 15:10
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I saw that game announced and they all called themselves former wow devs and don't mention the shame of wildstar unless you go read their bios.
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Mar 22, 2017 15:48
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Rend thread posted:It's from a studio founded by ex-Blizzard devs from Vanilla WoW days People really need to realize that a developer who hasn't done anything noteworthy since vanilla WoW probably isn't a very good developer.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:28
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And that 'developer' is a very big umbrella.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:52
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Also if they were any good they wouldn't be "ex"-Blizzard devs.
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Mar 22, 2017 20:27
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it's possible that a good dev would eventually quit blizzard out of their own volition, but someone who "quits" and then reappears attached to a lovely MMO for true hardcore gamers definitely got kicked out
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Mar 22, 2017 23:28
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Blizzard just wasn't HARDCORE enough and rejected their proposal for cafeteria attunements
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Mar 22, 2017 23:28
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Shy posted:https://www.frostkeep.com/ Looks like this game has already found it's audience: 
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Mar 23, 2017 00:14
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I cant tell if its exploitative cynicism or blatant ignorance behind that ad. Whatever it is, its definitely targeting the same demographic as Wildstar.
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Mar 23, 2017 00:25
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Why do people still care about "ex-World of Warcraft developers"? There's so many of them that the label is meaningless.
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Mar 23, 2017 00:42
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There is a certain segment of self described "hardcore" gamers who really, really want to experience vanilla WoW again. They tend to preorder games that claim to cater to that desire in droves. So, having devs with vanilla WoW experince makes for an easy advertising campaign if that is who you to market your product too. It worked very, very poorly for Wildstar's community development. Its the PvE equivalent of how every lovely PvP sandbox game claims its UO 2.0.
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Mar 23, 2017 00:53
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We refer to those people as "idiots".
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Mar 23, 2017 00:59
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Mizuti posted:Why do people still care about "ex-World of Warcraft developers"? There's so many of them that the label is meaningless. It lends at least some measure of credibility to say, "I worked on one of the most successful videogames of all time" when you're starting up something. You're definitely right in that it's practically meaningless but I dunno if the average person realizes that
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Mar 23, 2017 01:02
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Shy posted:https://www.frostkeep.com/ the funniest thing about this is that more recent ex-wow devs (including rob pardo) recently started their own studio named bonfire studios. I'll let yall draw your own conclusions but I think it's pretty funny that the team that leaves blizzard to create their own lovely vanilla wow clone also decide to clone the other studio of more recent ex wow devs. I thought it was the same thing at first but I was wondering "why does the web page look so lovely now?" when I first clicked the link.
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Mar 23, 2017 03:01
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Asimo posted:We refer to those people as "idiots". Idk if "idiots" is the right word. Wildstar certainly had its problems like rampant optimization issues that made the game nigh unplayable on systems with an AMD CPU, the absurd difficulty of its attunement process, etc. but the idea of a less casual MMO like Vanilla WoW isn't necessarily a stupid one. The issue really has more to do with the fact that while they may not be "idiots" there's also not nearly enough of them willing to pay to actually play the game and keep it alive. Which is a thing that they probably should have known ahead of time.
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Mar 23, 2017 11:00
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I had to slog through Vanilla content back when I picked WoW up for Wrath, so I can safely say those people are idiots.
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Mar 23, 2017 11:22
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super sweet best pal posted:I had to slog through Vanilla content back when I picked WoW up for Wrath, so I can safely say those people are idiots. As someone who played through both, Vanilla content in Vanilla and Vanilla content during WOTLK were substantially different. It was even more of a slog in Vanilla, but it's not the same. In WOTLK you were slogging through Vanilla content just so you could move past it and never think about it again until you rolled your next alt. In Vanilla you were doing it because it was THE content. It's less of a slog when you're not just trying to get it over with and move on because there's nothing else to move on to. Xmaspast fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 11:36
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I played through EQ, Kunark, and Velious content, and let me tell you, there doesn't seem to be a single loving developer wanting to return to THAT poo poo or bragging they're ex-EverQuest developers. The fact there's people doing it for something similar is just amazing to me. I get wanting to recapture your youth, wanting to replay the things you enjoyed, since I like to run through poo poo like Full Throttle every now and again, but some things just don't age well. Vanilla WoW was a slog, whether it was your first time or not, and a poo poo show in terms of game mechanics and balance. I'm just glad I was never the potion/elixir bitch because all of that time wasted gathering herbs for failed runs would have eventually driven me insane. What exactly is the appeal of it? In all seriousness, what are people seeing in Vanilla WoW after all the things that have been done to make it more streamlined and balanced on the PvE end of things? Is it really just nostalgia and rose tinted glasses?
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Mar 23, 2017 11:51
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John Dyne posted:What exactly is the appeal of it? In all seriousness, what are people seeing in Vanilla WoW after all the things that have been done to make it more streamlined and balanced on the PvE end of things? Is it really just nostalgia and rose tinted glasses? Also a ton of other reasons but chasing that old newness is a pretty big one for people like me who bounced through most MMOs before realising there was nothing special about them, they were just another genre, and settling down with the ones I enjoyed.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:06
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John Dyne posted:Is it really just nostalgia and rose tinted glasses? Yes.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:10
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John Dyne posted:What exactly is the appeal of it? In all seriousness, what are people seeing in Vanilla WoW after all the things that have been done to make it more streamlined and balanced on the PvE end of things? Is it really just nostalgia and rose tinted glasses? I'm not actually all that nostalgic for it, my heyday was in Wrath of the Lich King and that's the time I'm most nostalgic for by far. Some people miss feeling like they were actually part of a community, some people are masochists who miss the ball-crushing raid difficulty, others I'm sure just miss the friends they had in the game back then and wish they could go back to it. For better or worse everyone has their own reasons. At the end of the day, Wildstar tried to capture an audience based on Vanilla WoW nostalgia and never seemed to grasp that people weren't nostalgic for a game LIKE Vanilla WoW they were nostalgic for ACTUAL Vanilla WoW. Whether it's rose colored glasses or not people who clamor for that game are chasing after their own memories and you can't just create a new game and expect to make people feel the same way about it as they do about their memories.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:11
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John Dyne posted:I played through EQ, Kunark, and Velious content, and let me tell you, there doesn't seem to be a single loving developer wanting to return to THAT poo poo or bragging they're ex-EverQuest developers. The fact there's people doing it for something similar is just amazing to me. I see someone is unfamiliar with Brad McQuaid. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3744114
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Mar 23, 2017 13:45
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John Dyne posted:I played through EQ, Kunark, and Velious content, and let me tell you, there doesn't seem to be a single loving developer wanting to return to THAT poo poo or bragging they're ex-EverQuest developers. I am pretty sure that is how Brad McQuaid is still getting people to give him money, actually. He basically uses the exact same nostalgia trip to sell product, but targeted at people that are slightly older.
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Mar 23, 2017 13:58
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Hey, the man needs money. How else is he going to steal painkillers from his employees if he can't pay them?
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Mar 23, 2017 15:11
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i am tim! posted:Hey, the man needs money. How else is he going to steal painkillers from his employees if he can't pay them? come on back brad
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Mar 23, 2017 18:17
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I'm one of those weird people that enjoyed Vanguard.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:00
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John Dyne posted:I played through EQ, Kunark, and Velious content, and let me tell you, there doesn't seem to be a single loving developer wanting to return to THAT poo poo or bragging they're ex-EverQuest developers. The fact there's people doing it for something similar is just amazing to me. Good news, full throttle is being remastered, and it looks great. The main reason vanilla wow was so popular was that despite being a slog, it was less of a slog than EQ, and it got more and more popular the less sloggy it got. I don't have six days a week with six free hours for progression raids the way I did in my early 20's. I'm all about making poo poo casual. edit: on the topic of wildstar the first raid at least was semi casual by the time I quit. My guild raided for a month before drama shut it down and we were up to the last two bosses in the first raid, raiding 2 nights a week for 3 hours with set stop and start times (None of this "Just another hour guys" crap) and attunement/pre-raid gearing could be done in a day or two. The problem wasn't carbine not taking steps in the right direction, the problem is the steps were glacial in speed. Rune availability was a major hurdle for a lot of people right after F2P broke that didn't get fixed til like 6 months later, and the entire wildstar experience can be summed up on those terms. Major frustration sits broken until a major chunk of the populace leaves then gets fixed two weeks too late. Considering how many of those "Fixes" were just saying gently caress it and adding a vendor, it's pretty inexcusable. Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 19:17
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I usually like what I hear about Vanguard when people describe it in broad terms, but like many nice ideas it depends on good execution. Doesn't look like they pulled if off, though I must admit I didn't play the game because it ran like garbage on my then lower-end-but-still-decent PC. I really liked that Psions got their own worldwide chat channel. Little touches like that makes all the mismanagement of that game all the more tragic.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:25
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Rhymenoserous posted:The main reason vanilla wow was so popular was that despite being a slog, it was less of a slog than EQ, and it got more and more popular the less sloggy it got. I don't have six days a week with six free WoW really was a pretty big evolutionary jump forward in MMO design when it launched. Blizzard's stellar reputation definitely helped it along, but it really did get so huge largely on its own merits. Its easy to forget that over a decade later now, but those rose colored glasses a lot of people wear are there for a reason. Also Vanguard was a pretty good game that was tragically crippled by incompetent management. They did eventually get the game in a better place but by then most people had already quit. Itll be interesting to see it happen all over again with Pantheon.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:00
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Vanilla could be a godawful slog-- dungeons were enormous, drops were often bad enough that even a simple bear-rear end farming quest could take hours, and class-specific quests, while 'epic', could drag you all over Hell's half-acre or demand the help of guildies if you didn't want to outlevel the bit of gear you got at the end. On the other hand, the spirit healer alone was an enormous step forward. Sure, you'd still spend time (safely!) running back to your corpse, or a few minutes weak as a newborn kitten, but you didn't lose XP, gear, or money, save what it would cost to repair your damaged kit.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:33
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i am tim! posted:I usually like what I hear about Vanguard when people describe it in broad terms, but like many nice ideas it depends on good execution. Doesn't look like they pulled if off, though I must admit I didn't play the game because it ran like garbage on my then lower-end-but-still-decent PC. Vanguard had good class design. Even though there was more than a dozen of them they all had unique mechanics and significant playstyle differences. For Example, in WoW if you were maining a healer your main differences mostly boiled down to "Am I healing via Heal over Time, big single heals, damage shields, or bouncing smart heals?" whereas with Vanguard you had stuff like the Blood Mage who plays more like a wizard that extracts health out of your enemy, or the Disciple that became more effective at healing by hitting things in melee and also could drop buffs on himself and groups based on the order that they use their abilities. It's too bad the rest of the game was basically trash.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:56
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Bieeardo posted:Vanilla could be a godawful slog-- dungeons were enormous, drops were often bad enough that even a simple bear-rear end farming quest could take hours, and class-specific quests, while 'epic', could drag you all over Hell's half-acre or demand the help of guildies if you didn't want to outlevel the bit of gear you got at the end. It took less time in vanilla wow to go from level 1-60 than it did in everquest to go from level 59-60. Depending on your class in everquest, autoattacks could account for well over three-quarters of your total damage. Until you reached a certain level, healers had to sit down and look at their spellbook (which covered the entire screen) in order to regain mana and couldn't actually see anything going on around them. Being able to solo your way to the level cap in general was a privilege reserved only for a few classes. These are only a few examples. Vanilla wow had terrible raids and a lot of bullshit, but the sheer reduction in bullshit is pretty difficult to overstate. I think "all classes can solo to the level cap" alone was a major, major unheard-of shift in the entire genre and was a big reason for the game's success. Fake edit: I hope you're still okay out there, Caydiem.
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Mar 23, 2017 23:44
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City of Heroes, for its faults, did stuff like "solo all the way to the cap" thing a few months before WoW hit, but yeah between the two games 2004 saw a huge sea change in how MMOs were designed.
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Mar 24, 2017 00:03
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Ad by Khad posted:Vanilla wow had terrible raids and a lot of bullshit, but the sheer reduction in bullshit is pretty difficult to overstate. I think "all classes can solo to the level cap" alone was a major, major unheard-of shift in the entire genre and was a big reason for the game's success. Yeah, that's kinda my point. It iterated on what came before and they continued to iterate on each expansion, some better than others ofc. I mean my only excuse for playing wildstar was "No dev could be this stupid, they are going to have to roll back some of these idiot ideas." Turns out I was wrong.
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Mar 24, 2017 00:28
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Ad by Khad posted:Vanilla wow had terrible raids and a lot of bullshit, but the sheer reduction in bullshit is pretty difficult to overstate. I think "all classes can solo to the level cap" alone was a major, major unheard-of shift in the entire genre and was a big reason for the game's success. Absolutely. I have a really low tolerance threshold for frustration and, while I wouldn't go back to Vanilla WoW for anything, even I still managed to solo characters to cap and even get in on a little bit of raiding.
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Mar 24, 2017 01:47
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Rhymenoserous posted:Yeah, that's kinda my point. It iterated on what came before and they continued to iterate on each expansion, some better than others ofc. I think this is the point that people really forget. WoW exists as it did because they were fans of the genre and wanted to do Everquest but better, without all of the bullshit in it. WoW was always the casual babby game if you compared it to what came before it, so why are these people who are so high on their hardcore fumes not trying to go back even further to EQ-era design? Why don't they emulate some more really bad choices from vanilla? Quest helper? Better wait for someone to write that addon. Leveling on quests alone? Not until the next expansion's XP requirement nerf. Enough money to afford a fast mount? Pfft, yeah fuckin right, enjoy your turtle speed.
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Mar 24, 2017 02:32
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Abroham Lincoln posted:I so why are these people who are so high on their hardcore fumes not trying to go back even further to EQ-era design? I usually assume its because vanilla WoW was their first MMO and they are more or less chasing the dragon. There really are people who want to go back to EQ era MMO design though, look at Pantheon. Both groups are possibly some of the NEETiest people on the planet to have that kind of desire to have their free time destroyed.
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Mar 24, 2017 03:21
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Abroham Lincoln posted:Leveling on quests alone? Not until the next expansion's XP requirement nerf. Enough money to afford a fast mount? Pfft, yeah fuckin right, enjoy your turtle speed. It was always funny to me how, in comparison, EverQuest didn't really do a whole hell of a lot in quests beyond storylines and maybe some rare items. You sure as gently caress didn't do them very often for the experience, save for turning in belts or whatever at a super low level. Hell, mounts in EQ didn't do much of anything, either, except let you regain mana while moving, or at least that's how it was when they first came out and when I quit.
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Mar 24, 2017 03:53
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Pierson posted:The idea of mystery is a powerful one and a lot of people chase it rather than everything being known and datamined months in advance. Back in classic it was often a lot easier to rely on the community not just for dungeons and raids but for even just basic knowledge. Like yeah there was Allakazam or whatever for EW/WoW but that UI and and content was pretty bad/spotty, nowhere near as comprehensive or easy as wowhead is these days. That's part of why I liked Age of Wushu so much, early on it was obtuse and full of secrets that were difficult to discover since all the info was in Chinese.
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Mar 26, 2017 05:44
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discovering poo poo in Age of Wushu was rad as hell, it took us forever to realize that you can raise your relationship with various NPCs so everyone immediately rushed to max our relationship with an NPC named Wang Dong or something like that
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