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Galvanik posted:I was sold on the series as being worthwhile overall right up until the very end. If it was a show about Colleen learning what she was involved in, it might have been interesting. But since it's Danny's show, and Danny so badly written, the whole show suffers for it. Same thing if it was a show about Ward and Joy trying to get control of the company back from the undeserving heir that just breezed in one day and demanded a seat on the board, and set about making hilariously uninformed business decisions that would tank the company. Danny just sucks.
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Mar 23, 2017 05:09
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Yakmouth posted:That's how it was presented, sure. But all of our information comes from Colleen, who we know was being lied to, and from Bakuto himself, who I'd assume was still lying. They're probably less splinter groups than separate units in the organization. Gao seemed way more pissed/surprised that Bakuto showed up than makes sense until the reveal that he's Hand. Her acquisitions division was in the middle of their thing and then the PR head shows up and takes over. Remember that both of them tried to recruit Danny, and someone higher up in The Hand wanted the Iron Fist. Gao and Bakuto also seem as familiar with resurrection as Nobu. Bakuto does recruitment. Gao makes money. Nobu seemed to be in charge of their spiritual magic portion, only caring about acquiring the needed land from Kingpin and then digging a giant hole there in both seasons of Daredevil. I assume Sigourney Weaver is going to be part of a separate faction/group/division sent in to clean up now that their New York operations are in complete disarray. As Nero Danced posted:If it was a show about Colleen learning what she was involved in, it might have been interesting. But since it's Danny's show, and Danny so badly written, the whole show suffers for it. The show would have benefited greatly from anyone at all knowing something about how corporations work on the writing staff. Ward, Joy, the Board, zombie Harold, all meaningless if 51% owner Danny Rand says do something. He can tank the stock price or bankrupt the company, but once he's got control of his shares nobody at Rand can keep him from doing things and definitely nobody can kick him off the board or bar him from the premises. The company is owned by it's shareholders, and Danny can out vote any other group of share holders, so the board and all employees work for Danny. Gyges fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 05:12
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Gyges posted:The show would have benefited greatly from anyone at all knowing something about how corporations work on the writing staff. Ward, Joy, the Board, zombie Harold, all meaningless if 51% owner Danny Rand says do something. He can tank the stock price or bankrupt the company, but once he's got control of his shares nobody at Rand can keep him from doing things and definitely nobody can kick him off the board or bar him from the premises. The company is owned by it's shareholders, and Danny can out vote any other group of share holders, so the board and all employees work for Danny. Yeah this in particular was dumb as poo poo. Ward and Joy could just say to Danny "Hey Danny hold a special shareholders meeting" and Danny could fire the entire board and reinstate Ward and Joy in an afternoon. That said though this is the business that is using a crime ring to make amazing legal heroin so I'm not sure anyone there is someone who hasn't failed upwards. Everyone in the show is wimp-lo.
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Mar 23, 2017 05:26
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Just finished the show. Is it weird to say I thought the story was good even though the writing got really, really terrible at points? There was enough ham-fisted dialogue that I was groaning at least once an episode, but despite that I was still interested in what was going on, especially with regards to Harold. The Meachums were the best part of the show. I liked how the plot kept me guessing at how the chips are going to fall, how almost no one was totally on Danny's side and everyone was manipulating him. It was disappointing that the fight scenes weren't better. All of Danny's fights except for the one against the drunk guy just seemed so sluggish, and the super frequent cuts made it really hard to keep track of what was going on (and I suspect the reason the drunk guy fight was so good was because Danny was wearing a hoodie so it was a lot easier to use a stunt double). Colleen's fights were much better than the rest of Danny's. My personal ratings for the Netflix Marvel series: DDS1 > JJ > LC > IF > DDS2
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Mar 23, 2017 05:32
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About halfway through I found myself thinking that the show would have been improved a lot if Danny had purposefully left Kun Lai to fight the Hand in our world, if he had a dream prophecy or something, and left against the advice of all the monks to fufill his role as sworn enemy of the Hand. Once in New York he'd end up being pulled away from that duty by the promise of a wealthy life of idle luxury, a desire to claim his birthright in Rand Co, and thoughts of revenge. His business choices, and the way his character's motivations seemed to swing around from episode to episode could have been explained as him being conflicted about whether to go back to kun lun or what he really wants to do with his life. Having seen the ending, I like my idea even more since it would have meant he didn't leave all those people to die(?) just "because, man, I was unfulfilled" but rather he felt like he was pursuing his heroic destiny.
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Mar 23, 2017 05:32
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There's no way that K'un-Lun was destroyed or anything. Beating Danny Rand, Worst Iron Fist Ever, is one thing. Beating Lei Kong The Thunderer and his army of guys he's been training to potentially become Iron Fist one day is another. Especially since The Hand can't even handle one Blind Guy or the most gullible and least capable Iron Fist ever. Double especially since The Hand apparently sent dudes in pajamas and armed with ancient swords to try and take out one of the Capital Cities of Heaven.
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Mar 23, 2017 05:38
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BiggerBoat posted:You did? Can you please explain it to me? They wanted to bring about the end of the world through use of a person called the Black Sky which was their Messiah/Instrument but few Black Skies are born and they get killed by the Chaste. The Chaste are organization started by a guy who had the hand kill his whole village. Stick who belongs to the Chaste instead of killing Elektra, who was a black sky, trained her to fight the Hand. However, the Hand finds out about her so they try to get her to join them. They're also in order to fund their organization involved in organized crime. This is all explained in S2 except why they dug a hole but it is for " the rising" which I just assumed was a gateway for demons or something. Like all of this is explained in S2 of Daredevil. I assume the hole is something that maybe comes back up in The Defenders. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 06:10
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I love the old footage done with steadycam. Who filmed that? This show would be better if Danny felt like he had something to learn. Also if they had actors that could do a fight scene. Its like watching a Borne movie.
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Mar 23, 2017 07:03
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hooman posted:Yeah this in particular was dumb as poo poo. Ward and Joy could just say to Danny "Hey Danny hold a special shareholders meeting" and Danny could fire the entire board and reinstate Ward and Joy in an afternoon. Seriously they each had to of owned a huge chunk themselves as well.
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Mar 23, 2017 07:37
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Pakled posted:My personal ratings for the Netflix Marvel series: Luke and DDs2 were so uneven that you have to divide them up. 1st and last half of Luke Cage, and the Hand and Punisher halves of DDs2 need to be specified, they're so disparate. The last half of Luke Cage and the Hand parts of DDs2 are the worst things to come out of Netflix Marvel. Personally, I hope at least Moleman or someone comes out from the giant hole from DD, because at this point we know for a fact there's no way anyone's springing the budget for Fin Fang Foom. 
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Mar 23, 2017 08:57
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Junkie Disease posted:This show would be better if Danny felt like he had something to learn. Also if they had actors that could do a fight scene. Its like watching a Borne movie. The first two were good.
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Mar 23, 2017 09:07
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I honestly didn't dislike the backhalf of Luke Cage's season that badly. The main thing is that Diamondback was just a dull as the antagonist and didn't really have the build up to make him being Cage's brother be interesting rather than dumb. Couple this with the weird blaxploitation takeoffs and it wasn't nearly as good as the first part, but did keep some of the stylishness, and had good scenes when they got away from it. Though I may have just been taken in by Shades and Mariah trying to spin their way out of all the trouble coming down on their heads.
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Mar 23, 2017 09:12
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If you guys want to actually want to watch honest to god good and inventive and creative television about a Marvel character, you need to seriously be watching FX's Legion. It's about an XMan but not in an XMen world but it's so goddamned well made and interesting.
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Mar 23, 2017 09:46
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This is one of the most abysmally written and directed shows I've seen in a long time, and I'm watching 24:Legacy. I won't even judge any of the actors because who can work with this poo poo? I seriously want Netflix to just quit making anything Marvel. They've completely lost their way.
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Mar 23, 2017 09:46
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Drifter posted:If you guys want to actually want to watch honest to god good and inventive and creative television about a Marvel character, you need to seriously be watching FX's Legion. Legion is really good. Like, it's a show based on a comic, but it's not a "comic book show". It's not in the same genre as Arrow, Flash, or any of this poo poo.
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Mar 23, 2017 09:50
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Drifter posted:If you guys want to actually want to watch honest to god good and inventive and creative television about a Marvel character, you need to seriously be watching FX's Legion. Good music, good writing, good casting, and a really neat, just ever so slightly surreal design aspect to the sets and costumes. Sort of a 60's-but-not-actually vibe. If you don't watch it, I pity you. Seriously, it has to be decent. FX just reupped it for another season, and you know Fox's ability to cancel cool and good shows that require the viewers to think.
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Mar 23, 2017 09:57
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Snak posted:Legion is really good. Like, it's a show based on a comic, but it's not a "comic book show". It's not in the same genre as Arrow, Flash, or any of this poo poo. It absolutely is a comic book show. They go out and use mutant powers to kill dudes - explode them, burn them to death, fling them into space. It absolutely is a comic book show. It's just something new. I'd argue that poo poo like Arrow and Iron Fist are more like soap operas with choreography than comic movies. Or maybe something like Legion is a Vertigo-line comic book movie. Drifter fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 10:11
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Modus Pwnens posted:I seriously want Netflix to just quit making anything Marvel. They've completely lost their way. Netflix isn't meddling with Marvel IP. Netflix is just buying directly from Marvel. The problem lies with Ike Perlmutter and his guys at Marvel. Remember they're the same guys who came close to significantly harming the MCU before Feige went over their head and got Disney to spin it off as his baby.
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Mar 23, 2017 11:15
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Drifter posted:If you guys want to actually want to watch honest to god good and inventive and creative television about a Marvel character, you need to seriously be watching FX's Legion. After finishing Iron Fist and being pretty underwhelmed, I just watched the first episode of Legion and man was it good. This is still the first of the Netflix Marvel series that didn't really grab me so I still have hopes for what they're doing next, but Iron Fist did feel like a surprising misstep. Colleen Wing was cool as hell at least.
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Mar 23, 2017 12:08
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I honestly thought the reason for Danny's K'un-L'un departure was going to be that the dragon WAS dead when the got there, and he got the Iron Fist without exactly earning it. Not feeling qualified per se to stay and guard the pass, doubting his own power, he decided to go out into the world to solve that mystery and also take the fight to the hand. Then it could be revealed that the dragon wasn't really dead or whatever, but I really thought his doubt came from his experience in the cave. Nope!
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Mar 23, 2017 14:27
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Is the main character in Legion still going nuts every other scene? The constant trippiness in the pilot got really tiring.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:05
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Honestly this is as bad as the treadmill scene in Dexter.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:23
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There's a lot that can be picked apart about Iron Fist, but at the end of the day, most of it stems from a lack of any vision for or confidence in the source material. This is a show that exists to fulfill the terms of the contract Marvel Television and ABC Studios signed with Netflix in 2013, not for any creative reason.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:35
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Three episodes in and for a guy who spent 15 years in an otherworldly Buddhist monastery, Danny has absolutely zero chill. That and the pretty slow pacing are my two big complaints so far, but I don't really know the source material so I don't know how "faithful" everything is. Everyone else on the show is good though, I haven't hated a TV character as much as Ward AKA Evil Tim Allen in a long time. E: Should I go back and finish Daredevil and Luke Cage? I fell off of DD in season 1, and got halfway through Cage before also falling off. Enjoyed what I saw of both but I'm not really a TV guy and don't like the feeling of bingeing through a series. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 15:38
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Drifter posted:It absolutely is a comic book show. But that's what I mean. "Comic book shows" are practically their own genre right now, and that genre is mostly soap operas with choreography. Legion is not one of those. Yes of course it's actually a comic book show. That's what I put it in quotes and then gave an example of what I mean.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:40
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C-Euro posted:Three episodes in and for a guy who spent 15 years in an otherworldly Buddhist monastery, Danny has absolutely zero chill. That and the pretty slow pacing are my two big complaints so far, but I don't really know the source material so I don't know how "faithful" everything is. Everyone else on the show is good though, I haven't hated a TV character as much as Ward AKA Evil Tim Allen in a long time. With regards to Ward, believe it or not you'll probably be rooting for him by the end.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:44
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If Legion wasn't based on an X-Men character, hardly anyone would be calling it a superhero show.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:46
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C-Euro posted:Three episodes in and for a guy who spent 15 years in an otherworldly Buddhist monastery, Danny has absolutely zero chill. That and the pretty slow pacing are my two big complaints so far, but I don't really know the source material so I don't know how "faithful" everything is. Everyone else on the show is good though, I haven't hated a TV character as much as Ward AKA Evil Tim Allen in a long time. For Daredevil, definitely watch at least season 1. It's great TV. Season 2 is kind of a disappointment, it has two major plotlines and one of them is really cool but the other is confusing and boring. For Luke Cage, if you've finished episode 7, then you've already seen the best the show has to offer. The second half of it isn't as good as the first.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:58
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C-Euro posted:Three episodes in and for a guy who spent 15 years in an otherworldly Buddhist monastery, Danny has absolutely zero chill. That and the pretty slow pacing are my two big complaints so far, but I don't really know the source material so I don't know how "faithful" everything is. Everyone else on the show is good though, I haven't hated a TV character as much as Ward AKA Evil Tim Allen in a long time. DD S1 enjoyed almost universal acclaim. If you didn't like that, you probably won't like anything else. Almost all of which have pacing or character development problems that DD S1 was mostly able to mitigate.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:25
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C-Euro posted:E: Should I go back and finish Daredevil and Luke Cage? I fell off of DD in season 1, and got halfway through Cage before also falling off. Enjoyed what I saw of both but I'm not really a TV guy and don't like the feeling of bingeing through a series. You should stop watching Iron Fist and go watch some DD and Luke till a fight scene happens and then come back to this.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:25
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Barry Convex posted:If Legion wasn't based on an X-Men character, hardly anyone would be calling it a superhero show. It'd be a very personal superhero show. I mean, they clearly show everyone's mutant abilities and then they fight with them and stuff.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:32
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Barry Convex posted:There's a lot that can be picked apart about Iron Fist, but at the end of the day, most of it stems from a lack of any vision for or confidence in the source material. The baffling thing is they couldn't find anyone who wanted to do something with Iron Fist. Not even some stunt guys free to live out their Kung Fu dreams or a hardcore fan of Kung Fu The Series who wanted to do an loose reboot but with actual dragons. Nope, just some people who apparently don't care about the character at all and are just down to help facilitate the contractual crossing of t's and dotting of i's.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:57
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There were lots of people that had ideas the problem was that the pre production ran to long , which of course eats up budget , then they started filming ASAP because they had to finish it before the Defenders . Whole thing feels rushed.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:08
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Barry Convex posted:There's a lot that can be picked apart about Iron Fist, but at the end of the day, most of it stems from a lack of any vision for or confidence in the source material. I think it also suffered from Marvel's reluctance to fully embrace magic until the Dr. Strange movie. So when 50% of Iron Fist's deal is magic chi punches and hidden cities, it will suffer if the producers choose not to focus on these things as much. Back during the tournament episode, I was wondering why they didn't do more flashbacks to K'un-L'un ala "Kung-Fu". Just have Danny meditating or practicing kicks, while his master delivers some wisdom about his current predicament, or keeps drilling into him that he must destroy The Hand. Hell, just have the master appear in the scene just like in that episode if they don't want to spend more on sets. The rush might also explain why they didn't bother to copy the easiest thing from "Kill Bill" and add some super fun 70's music to most of the fight scenes. Edit: And now I realize that my dream showrunner for Iron Fist would've been Quentin Tarantino. Yeah, there would be some problems, but there would've been a lot more fun, and care for the choreography. Kal-L fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 20:19
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Edit: Quote is not Edit.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:22
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Shoeless Danny was so close to the Tarantino dream. The boy with the dragon tattoo look would have been much improved if it took a page from Kung Fu the series' forearm marks rather than taking a sharpie from Walgreens. Gyges fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 20:31
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I am still excited for The Defenders since the short episode order gives them less time to gently caress up the pacing and less time to spend with Danny Rand.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:37
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I look forward to Matt and Danny scenes.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:46
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Hollismason posted:I look forward to Matt and Danny scenes. "Why am I better than you at...everything?"
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Mar 23, 2017 20:57
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Kal-L posted:I think it also suffered from Marvel's reluctance to fully embrace magic until the Dr. Strange movie. So when 50% of Iron Fist's deal is magic chi punches and hidden cities, it will suffer if the producers choose not to focus on these things as much. I suspect that the lack of onscreen supernatural elements had more to do with not wanting the show to diverge too much from the other Netflix Marvel shows tonally than with Dr. Strange or anything else going on on the film side, but yeah, that's in large part what I mean about not having faith in the source material. Buck is a hack and undoubtedly bears a large share of responsibility for the specific failings of the show's execution. But I absolutely believe that Marvel Television hired him in the first place because he pitched them more or less what they wanted, and very stupidly, that was an Iron Fist show largely stripped of the main things that would have distinguished it from the other Marvel Netflix properties.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:02
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