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TheChirurgeon posted:Before or after negative modifiers are applied? E.g. if my save is 3+, and I get a -5, but I'm in cover, do I roll nothing or do I save on a 6+? There isn't really a -5 modifier in Sigmar (that I've seen), but its version of AP is "rend" Example: You have something with a 3+ save, it gets hit with a Rend -2 weapon, its save is now 5+ for the purpose of that attack. If you're in cover that will go to a +4.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:04
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Yeah I think even cannons are only -2 rend. Melta could be -2, plasma -1 and nothing for bolters. poo poo I wonder if strength D hits are basically mortal wounds now.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:07
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maybe theyll go with d8s or d10s to get a bit more granularity to the rolls, and as a side effect, get rid of most rerolls 
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Mar 23, 2017 19:07
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The problem with D8s and D10s is that it's hard to roll more than a half dozen at a time, and reading the numerals takes longer than reading the pips. Cocked dice also become more of an issue. Getting them in wargame quantities is also expensive, but if anyone can do it it is GW.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:10
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Sigmar weapons also do variable amounts of damage. Some cause 1 wound, some cause 2, etc. Each weapon gets 1 to-wound roll per hit, but the successful rolls can deal more wounds in damage to targets. This allows a bit more flexibility in balancing the weapons. A 2 damage -1 rend weapon is better than a 1 damage -1 rend weapon all other things equal. A 1 damage -2 rend weapon is better than a 2 damage -1 rend weapon, all other things equal, against well armored targets and worse against targets with no armor. If they brought that kind of mechanic over you could have heavy weapons with low AP, but once they get through dealing more wounds to the target unit.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:12
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MasterSlowPoke posted:The problem with D8s and D10s is that it's hard to roll more than a half dozen at a time, and reading the numerals takes longer than reading the pips. Cocked dice also become more of an issue. Getting them in wargame quantities is also expensive, but if anyone can do it it is GW. heres 50 d10s for 18 bucks. d8s and d10s come in various sizes, just like all other dice, so you can get smaller ones to fit your wee hands. taking slightly longer to read the numerals is less of an issue if you dont have 2 or 3 rerolls to determine each outcome
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Mar 23, 2017 19:19
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Floppychop posted:There isn't really a -5 modifier in Sigmar (that I've seen), but its version of AP is "rend" Yeah I"m primarily thinking in 2nd Ed terms, but if you're gonna have 2+ saves, then the chances of a -5 are there in 40k with poo poo like Meltaguns (though at that point, maybe it just doesn't allow a save). Back in 2nd, S4 weapons were usually -1, and you'd increment from there. So S7 would give you -4 at S8, you'd be looking at -5 to your save. You also had wonky stuff though, like Abaddon having a 2+ save on 2d6. 40k could definitely use more weapons that cause multiple wounds and/or hull points, especially with the superheavy and MC/GC bloat recently. GreenMarine posted:AoS damage Yeah, that could probably work. I'd have to see how it's implemented in 40k
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Mar 23, 2017 19:20
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Re: Age of Emperor. I don't have an event until June, I can safely not really worry about this dumb game until then. That's kind of exciting.Ilor posted:While fistfuls of dice are awesome in their own regard, multiple rolls are not. Say I have a unit of 10 Assault Terminators that get hit with a pie-plate template - you want me to roll 2D6 10 times to figure out which ones live? FUUUUCK that. The game already takes too long as it is. It only matters in mixed armor save units. I can roll my saves until the dude dies, or roll a poo poo ton of LoS and make saves separately for the character and the unit. I've ran character heavy super friends, huge blobs, and centstar and it's never been a problem. But yeah when people do the LoS tango it does get old if they don't understand or have to resolve one at a time because of a ton of mixed units.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:25
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Technowolf posted:Death Guard in video format: Did this video just confirm the Mortarion demon prince leak a while back? That looks exactly like his manreaper at same angle in those images.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:25
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Nah, 2nd edition didn't have much correlation between S and armor. Lasguns and boltguns were both -1. Plasma was -1 on low power, -2 on high power. Heavy bolters were -2. Autocannons were -3.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:28
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I just want them to make formations cost points and remove grav so the game sounds less scary to play.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:32
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mango sentinel posted:I just want them to make formations cost points and remove grav so the game sounds less scary to play. I just got the new devastator kit with grav cannons, don't you do this to me.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:33
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Ilor posted:Uh....except that your odds of rolling 4+ on 2D6 are exactly the same as rolling a 2+ on a D12. Ok, but you have different probabilities for rolling specific numbers on 2d6 vs d12. Picking one point on the curve where they're the same and using that to imply they're always the same is about as smart as walking to a GW store and paying full retail for your space marines.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:35
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I'd be interested to see if they get rid of blast templates. I guess we can see if Shadow War has them.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:35
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chutche2 posted:I just got the new devastator kit with grav cannons, don't you do this to me. They're not going to get rid of any weapon option like that, but with a new damage engine their effectiveness will surely change.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:36
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Ok, but you have different probabilities for rolling specific numbers on 2d6 vs d12. Picking one point on the curve where they're the same and using that to imply they're always the same is about as smart as walking to a GW store and paying full retail for your space marines. 
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Mar 23, 2017 19:36
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chutche2 posted:Nah, 2nd edition didn't have much correlation between S and armor. Enh, I think you're reaching here. It wasn't 1 to 1, but it was definitely there in the same way that Weapon strength and AP are highly correlated now. Assault/Autocannons were -3 at S8, but most S8/9/10 weapons had -5 or -6 modifiers. I don't recall Lasguns actually having a modifier--laspistols def. didn't, but bolt pistols did. You can see the effect pretty clearly on close combat weapons too: http://www.sprubitz.co.uk/ekmps/shops/sprubitz/images/weapons-grenades-reference-card-from-warhammer-40-000-2nd-edition-1993-oop--3118-p.jpg e: Found the other page. Lasguns did have a modifer, but plasma guns didn't have multiple modes, just a -2 and sustained fire with alternating turn firing (for cool down). They used to be total garbage. [url]http://www.sprubitz.co.uk/ekmps/shops/sprubitz/images/weapons-grenades-reference-card-from-warhammer-40-000-2nd-edition-1993-oop--[2]-3118-p.jpg[/url] TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 19:39
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Sure, and melta guns are -4, flamers and shuriken weapons -2, and battle cannons and heavy flamers -3. There are just as many exceptions to the trend as there are weapons that follow it.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:50
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I'd bet termies get a 1+ or something like you could get in fantasy, or a better invulnerable. Or multi wounds. That works too.
Felime fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 19:51
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AndyElusive posted:Did this video just confirm the Mortarion demon prince leak a while back? That looks exactly like his manreaper at same angle in those images. Faeit says that too. (Can't link because I'm at work.)
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Mar 23, 2017 19:58
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Felime posted:I'd bet termites get a 1+ or something like you could get in fantasy, or a better invulnerable. Or multi wounds. That works too. I wouldn't mind invulnerable saves that can be taken after armor like in 2nd. It'd only really be a problem if they also have fnp. Fnp should just be an invulnerable save in that case.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:02
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TheChirurgeon posted:[...] it was definitely there in the same way that Weapon strength and AP are highly correlated now. Oh nice! *checks Tyranid Venom and Rupture Cannon stats* ... oh...
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Mar 23, 2017 20:03
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Soulfucker posted:Oh nice! *except Tyranids
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Mar 23, 2017 20:04
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if weapons are going to -save then couldn't they streamline it further by having that also be the anti-vehicle value as well? Like if melta is -4 it would be Str 8 (maybe change this) vs. say AV14 - 4 = AV10 fundamentally I think keeping Strength and armor penetration value separate is good so you can have high Str low AP weapons and vice versa Phyresis fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 20:22
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Technowolf posted:Faeit says that too. (Can't link because I'm at work.) I just checked the blurry images again and compared it to what we see in the video and if it's not Morty's scythe then it's a dead ringer for the weapon at the very least.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:34
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 This was leaked a while ago. If it's not exactly this, I'm sure it will be drat close.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:40
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I'm really glad I've gone heavy bolter-heavy in my space marines
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Mar 23, 2017 21:47
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chutche2 posted:Nah, 2nd edition didn't have much correlation between S and armor. It had a literal 1:1 correlation from S4/-1 upwards, only with certain weapons being excluded. Specifically Lasguns on Guardsmen, and Autocannons on Predators being the ones you encountered the most. Most other things followed the template. e:f;b.
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Mar 23, 2017 22:13
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the other big exception was that chain weapons usually had -1 more mod than their strength would imply
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Mar 23, 2017 22:19
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Shockeh posted:It had a literal 1:1 correlation from S4/-1 upwards, only with certain weapons being excluded. Specifically Lasguns on Guardsmen, and Autocannons on Predators being the ones you encountered the most. Most other things followed the template. Other exceptions: All flamer weapons, all plasma weapons, all melta weapons, all eldar weapons, multilasers, krak missiles (including cyclones), battle cannons, all tyranid weapons, frag grenades, thudd guns Stuff that followed the rule: All bolt weapons (Unless assault cannons fire bolts?), all auto/stubgun type weapons, laspistols, lascannons, frag missiles, frag grenades, krak grenades Basically, standard marine weapons followed the rule (most of them anyway) and almost nothing else does. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 22:28
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I'd be interested to see if they get rid of blast templates. I guess we can see if Shadow War has them. You can rip them out of my cold dead hands
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Mar 23, 2017 22:29
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Cease to Hope posted:the other big exception was that chain weapons usually had -1 more mod than their strength would imply Eldar stuff was off too. Shuriken was -2 at str4 also scatter laser.
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Mar 23, 2017 22:31
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I'd be interested to see if they get rid of blast templates. I guess we can see if Shadow War has them. I remember seeing a box contents shot for Shadow War which had a set of the standard 40k templates in transparent red plastic, along with the usual dice and booklets and tiny jewel-like objects of wonder. Which is unfortunate because I'd really like templates and scatter dice to gently caress off
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Mar 23, 2017 22:46
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Templates are one of my favorite parts of 40k. I don't understand why people hate them so much.
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Mar 23, 2017 23:02
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This is what happens when one of your limbs gets gangrene and you don't remove it.
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Mar 23, 2017 23:03
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BULBASAUR posted:Templates are one of my favorite parts of 40k. I don't understand why people hate them so much. How could anyone hate blast templates?
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Mar 23, 2017 23:11
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mango sentinel posted:How could anyone hate blast templates? Picture a billion termagants each shedding a single tear
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Mar 23, 2017 23:12
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mango sentinel posted:How could anyone hate blast templates? they lead to intra-unit micromanagement of exact placement and distance between models that is time consuming and super boring
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Mar 23, 2017 23:13
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Templates are Cool and also Good. They double as handy coasters and frisbees. 
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Mar 23, 2017 23:15
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I don't think templates are inherently bad but think about how much time would be saved if attack resolution was abstracted differently or if horde players didn't have to reshuffle their units in a 2"x2" grid pattern if they at all care about minimising damage. Imagine.
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Mar 23, 2017 23:16
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