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I'm so glad I'm not a video game writer. Don't get me wrong--I'd love to write stories for video games in theory. But the practical reality of it sounds like a writer's nightmare in every possible way.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:16
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I would think that if you're a good writer you'd be writing things other than video games
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Mar 23, 2017 20:22
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video games are good
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Mar 23, 2017 20:22
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video games are bad
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Mar 23, 2017 20:23
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fridge corn posted:I would think that if you're a good writer you'd be writing things other than video games I'm a professional writer and yeah in my experience this is spot on
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Mar 23, 2017 20:24
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precision posted:What, you didn't know that free speech means nobody should ever face repercussions for anything they say? Thanks, Milo Jontron is constitutionally granted the right to voice video game characters no matter how many mosques he burns down, that's the first amendment.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:24
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exquisite tea posted:Bad voice acting in video games almost always comes down to bad direction. The VAs on Andromeda for the most part are all professionals with a ton of anime + game credits to their name
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Mar 23, 2017 20:25
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KingSlime posted:I'm a professional writer and yeah in my experience this is spot on 
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Mar 23, 2017 20:25
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oddium posted:video games are good Cowcaster posted:video games are bad https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312?lang=en
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Mar 23, 2017 20:25
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fridge corn posted:I would think that if you're a good writer you'd be writing things other than video games I could imagine a good writer wanting to use games as a medium, but I can't imagine a good writer putting up with the bullshit required to actually do that at most places (and then end up with their name attached to something terrible because it was all torn up and rearranged and hosed up).
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Mar 23, 2017 20:27
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They should have gotten Jonathan Tron to voice a Nazi in the new upcoming Banjo Kazooie inspired Collecta-former, Yooka-Laylee I think that would have been a very good role for him
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Mar 23, 2017 20:30
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Endorph posted:so you write video games? Listen here u Lil poo poo
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Mar 23, 2017 20:34
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But seriously if you have good writing chops you should stick to dry technical writing, corporate, or other kinds of lame but profitable niches. Fiction writing, video game writing, and even journalism aren't worth it imo. Leave those to the amateurs or those who are passionate for writing (not to say there aren't people that are doing much better than myself in those areas but it's a crapshoot). Sticking to more demanding and less interesting sectors means more money and less competition from blogging mommies and your friend seth who is totally starting a media empire guys
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Mar 23, 2017 20:37
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fridge corn posted:I would think that if you're a good writer you'd be writing things other than video games Hi, I'm a writer. It's a little more complicated than that. You can be a much worse writer than anything you've seen in video games and make a living. It's comparatively easy in the sense that, in my experience, nobody really hires someone to write for games if writing is literally all they can do. You're expected to have some experience with at least game design if not actual programming. You know the whole cliché about making fun of people who want to work on a video game as "the idea guy"? It's that. In my opinion it's really dumb, because being a good writer is extremely rare and difficult, but the game industry has an irrational bias.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:39
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Lurdiak posted:Jontron is constitutionally granted the right to voice video game characters no matter how many mosques he burns down, that's the first amendment. It's true. I learned this from noted constitutional scholar @DeplorableNintendoFan on twitter. KingSlime posted:But seriously if you have good writing chops you should stick to dry technical writing, corporate, or other kinds of lame but profitable niches. I am a technical writer, actually. It's not so bad but I miss being a teacher. Of course I live in Wisconsin and would end up taking a massive pay cut to be a teacher and I got student loans so  And like a lot of writers I still try to do the fiction writing thing but I haven't gotten beyond publishing a couple of short stories. I did get paid for them, though, so it's not all bad.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:41
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A friend of mine tried out Super Double Dragon because of a recommendation I made to him and explaining some of the mechanics to him reminds me I was in the middle of a Let's Play back when LP's were first becoming a thing here on SA. Didn't have the software or A/V and computer know-how to make it work ultimately but it was fun (for myself) while it lasted. Nowadays there are lots of videos, which admittedly are probably better if they do a fun 2-player co-op run through. My videos were just of me kicking rear end.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:42
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Technical writers are technically good.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:44
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Harrow posted:And like a lot of writers I still try to do the fiction writing thing but I haven't gotten beyond publishing a couple of short stories. I did get paid for them, though, so it's not all bad. If you've gotten that far, you've gotten farther than 99% of all writers everywhere so you should try your hand at a novel or at least keep doing short stories. Once you get your foot in the door it becomes exponentially easier to get things published.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:44
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precision posted:Hi, I'm a writer. It's a little more complicated than that. A few developers who work on really writing-heavy games, like Obsidian, luckily want actual, dedicated writers. Their application process wants you to demonstrate scripting ability, but that makes sense--I think you'd want the writer scripting the branching dialog they wrote themselves whenever possible. I appreciate that approach. As to what the hell is going on at Bioware, well, I've read enough conflicting "insider" stories to know that I have no loving idea and probably never will. But if I had to guess, it's a combination of poor writing direction, poor voice direction, and an unrealistic timeline for delivering a game as big and intricate as they clearly wanted to.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:45
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Harrow posted:A few developers who work on really writing-heavy games, like Obsidian, luckily want actual, dedicated writers. I know  Unfortunately not every game studio is Obsidian 
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Mar 23, 2017 20:46
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Harrow posted:A few developers who work on really writing-heavy games, like Obsidian, luckily want actual, dedicated writers. Their application process wants you to demonstrate scripting ability, but that makes sense--I think you'd want the writer scripting the branching dialog they wrote themselves whenever possible. I appreciate that approach. Andromeda had five years of development but at least one full project restart. At a fundamental level they just had no good ideas for how to continue to Mass Effect franchise and no strong vision for what that would look like, which is evident in every facet of Andromeda.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:47
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Harrow posted:It's true. I learned this from noted constitutional scholar @DeplorableNintendoFan on twitter. I feel you on that. I love teaching but America won't stop making GBS threads on the profession. This might sound selfish but I didn't spend years building myself up to be the doormat of people dumber than me (parents, admins, other teachers). Thankfully the cold, emotionless corporate world rewards merit a little more handsomely. I've tried the writing for fun before but I guess I've spent (and will continue to spend) countless hours writing about stuff I don't care about that it's hard for me to not just play video games or jam out with my instruments on my free time instead. I don't even read for pleasure much anymore. bloodychill posted:Technical writers are technically good. All good creative writers are technically good too, as are all good musicians and all good artists (well, most anyways). Technical mastery is so underplayed in our culture, which is why a lot of dum-dums think they can just not learn the foundations for x thing.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:48
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It's true everyone I know who calls themselves a writer are either technical writers for their day job or poorly paid adjunct professors struggling to get a English PhD, doomed to teach Freshmen English 101
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Mar 23, 2017 20:49
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exquisite tea posted:Andromeda had five years of development but at least one full project restart. At a fundamental level they just had no good ideas for how to continue to Mass Effect franchise and no strong vision for what that would look like, which is evident in every facet of Andromeda. Yeah, that makes more sense. Y'know, "let's make a game about exploring a new galaxy and trying to find a home for these disparate species who all need to learn to live and work together" seems like such a slam dunk of a premise for a space RPG with open-world elements. But leave it to Bioware to fumble it. I've said it before, but the one thing that annoys me more than a bad idea in games is a good idea wasted. Lakbay posted:It's true everyone I know who calls themselves a writer are either technical writers for their day job or poorly paid adjunct professors struggling to get a English PhD, doomed to teach Freshmen English 101 Hey, that's what I did before I was a technical writer! vvv Also, weirdly enough I agree. I liked teaching freshman writing, which is probably why I did it for longer than I should've.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:50
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I'd love to teach freshman English 101 for eternity if it paid the bills.. poo poo is insanely rewarding and fun, college students are a whole nother level and many actually want to learn (or hear you talk poo poo, at least)
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Mar 23, 2017 20:50
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Lakbay posted:It's true everyone I know who calls themselves a writer are either technical writers for their day job or poorly paid adjunct professors struggling to get a English PhD, doomed to teach Freshmen English 101 Hey that's not true, some of them are broke assholes like me!
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Mar 23, 2017 20:51
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precision posted:If you've gotten that far, you've gotten farther than 99% of all writers everywhere so you should try your hand at a novel or at least keep doing short stories. Once you get your foot in the door it becomes exponentially easier to get things published. I do have a novel in progress and a few short stories I haven't had time to get around to, so yeah, I'm keeping going on it. Thanks for the encouragement--trying to get published is slow and daunting. It did teach me how to shrug off rejection and identify useful feedback, though.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:52
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For real, from one Pro to Another, having your own short stories published is pretty freaking amazing and something that most of us will never accomplish in our lives mad props bruh
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Mar 23, 2017 20:54
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KingSlime posted:I'd love to teach freshman English 101 for eternity if it paid the bills.. Some guy I knew acheived it I think but he had to teach 6 or 7 sections at once in the same semester at 3 or 4 different colleges across the city That's A LOT of papers to grade... EDIT: I'm still pretty sure he was below poverty line or livable wage
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Mar 23, 2017 20:58
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Writing video games is hard. A major factor is that video games by definition can't follow the same writing rules as books or movies. They need extremely different pacing in a way that is incredibly hard to do well. In addition you're forced to deal with a 'character arc' for the protagonist that rarely to ever follows the set rules of what we're used to and which often are unsatisfying. Writers depend on being able to have a lot more control over a character than a video game offers because by necessity a video game has to put the player in control and what makes for good writing doesn't often make for good gameplay. You can do it, of course, but it's hard. Even if you go for 'similar characters' you can't do it the same way. Nate Drake and Indiana Jones can't be written the same way because Nate can't be as off-footed or vulnerable as Indy can. You can't depend on a character making the 'wrong choice' even though the audience doesn't want them to unless you just drag it into a cutscene and usually piss your audience off. And there's also pacing. movies and books can show the interesting parts. The 'filler' parts are what make up the bulk of games though. You have to watch (even in an abstracted version) every random walk down a corridor or trek across a empty plain or whatever.
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Mar 23, 2017 20:59
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[leans back casually, I'd Rather Be Reading Manga shirt in full view]
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Mar 23, 2017 20:59
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Is there a thread for Everything?
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Mar 23, 2017 21:02
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I had a few English professors in college tell me I was a decent writer and had a somewhat unique voice, all trying to recruit me into the department. I asked one in particular what kind of job opportunities there were for academic writers. "Hm. Professor." "Uhhh..." Though I guess now if you can also present on YouTube, you can make money criticizing pop culture or something.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:01
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Macaluso posted:Some of the replies to this on twitter and stuff are quite salty. I love that ones that are like "I've lost a lot of respect for Playtonic I feel bad for whoever runs their various social media accounts because until today they probably would skim through every reply to their tweets and now that would be...impossible without a tall glass of whiskey sours at your side.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:01
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oddium posted:[leans back casually, I'd Rather Be Reading Manga shirt in full view]  I've come to realize I need pictures and/or moving images with my storiez
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Mar 23, 2017 21:04
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oddium posted:[leans back casually, I'd Rather Be Reading Manga shirt in full view] [leans back casually, t-shirt full of cats and no person in full view]
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Mar 23, 2017 21:05
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ImpAtom posted:Writing video games is hard. I've found the best games writing comes from total madmen, like Suda51, Yoko Taro, or SWERY. I'd put Kojima on there as well, solely because he attempts to do things with storytelling in games you otherwise could never do with other mediums. There are great traditional storytellers of course but the guys who really stretch what's only possible in an interactive setting do some very fun things.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:05
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Lakbay posted:Some guy I knew acheived it I think but he had to teach 6 or 7 sections at once in the same semester at 3 or 4 different colleges across the city Exactly! Despite requiring a graduate degree, adjunct positions pay less than literally every full time job out there. It's remarkably hosed up, although it did force me to experiment with making money via my skillset in other ways and realize just how valuable writing skills are in other sectors. On that note, I remember tons of goons telling me that I'd never make a living "putting words together" back in 2008-2009, when I was contemplating my degree options. I'm just glad their doom and gloom was way off mark because I have some loans of my own! I'll grant them it's not the most lucrative field but English is probably the most valuable "useless" degree one can hope to have.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:05
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ImpAtom posted:Writing video games is hard. And then at the end of the day, you're writing for an audience of mostly idiots who have turned their brains to mush playing video games and wouldn't even recognize good writing if they saw it.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:05
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CJacobs, come to the 3DCG thread in CreativeConvention we will help you. Edit: Writing for anything else IS the project. Movies and TV get closest, but even then they follow the writing super closely. Writing for video games is only PART of the project, and often times not even the MAIN part and often times it's being done concurrently with design and production and will have to be changed to suit gameplay, visuals, technical limitations, etc etc. It's super complicated. Imo the best videogame writing is what's called just "world building" in other writing mediums. You create a place and establish rules and history for how it works and then you have to let the player poke at it as best you can. Like what BOTW is doing right now. mutata fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 21:05
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