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dumb and kinda scared posted:Ok, so my original question came full circle. So it's never explained who are "they"? And the plan doesn't kill YoRHa, it just lets the machines take over them? It doesn't sound very smart No it's a complete mystery who the true antagonists are. That the Red Girls manipulate the androids too is just a theory with no concrete evidence at this point. And it doesn't seem the logic virus can actually recover any data from the androids, it just turns them berserk so the real goal of masking the lie about humanity is still fulfilled
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Mar 24, 2017 12:52
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dumb and kinda scared posted:Ok, so my original question came full circle. So it's never explained who are "they"? And the plan doesn't kill YoRHa, it just lets the machines take over them? It doesn't sound very smart I'm kind of talking out of my rear end since I don't have all the info, but that's what I think. Am I even close?
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Mar 24, 2017 12:57
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Yeah it seems to me like there's still two separate groups fighting, the machine consciousness and whoever is overseeing the androids, presumably some remnant of human consciousness/AI on the moon. The latter group is responsible for the YorHa destruction cycle, I guess they used the machines to do it as basically a false flag operation to keep the other androids around, like the resistance group, in the dark.
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Mar 24, 2017 13:05
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Japanese audio is cool but reading subs while playing at the same time is annoying and I was thinking of switching back to English. Out of curiosity what do you guys prefer?
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Mar 24, 2017 13:06
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RanKizama posted:This is just personal theory, but I think "they" refers to the android authority that oversees the human genome on the moon. YoRHa is given just enough information to be functional to their purpose and when they've outlived that, the backdoor is opened and they're wiped out so that the next cycle can begin and fresh data can be accumulated while simultaneously building better androids. I believe that the purpose of this isn't just for combat ability, but to further android evolution on even an emotional level to make them progress into what humanity once was. If they do have the human genome on the moon and their task is to save humanity, then it would make sense for them to conduct these continuous cycles to evolve the androids to a point that they can be possibly be used as a vessel to actually restore humanity in the future. Sounds about right to me. We never really learn about how android chain of command works other than that YoRHa is aboard just one orbiting base of many and the Resistance are more like convenient willing outcasts so it's reasonable to assume the moonbase staff calls the shots unless the human server itself was granted enough of an autonomy and it's the one pulling the strings
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Mar 24, 2017 13:08
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:Your Dodge almost entirely consists of invincibility frames, you can chain infinite of them together. Yeah you can just squeeze the trigger like a crazy person until you think you're safe. Also you can use healing items like instantly, or at least as fast as you can hit down on the D-pad and then B. rear end posted:Japanese audio is cool but reading subs while playing at the same time is annoying and I was thinking of switching back to English. Out of curiosity what do you guys prefer? I went through the same process, and had played through once with English already so I liked them.
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Mar 24, 2017 13:18
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RanKizama posted:This is just personal theory, but I think "they" refers to the android authority that oversees the human genome on the moon. YoRHa is given just enough information to be functional to their purpose and when they've outlived that, the backdoor is opened and they're wiped out so that the next cycle can begin and fresh data can be accumulated while simultaneously building better androids. I believe that the purpose of this isn't just for combat ability, but to further android evolution on even an emotional level to make them progress into what humanity once was. If they do have the human genome on the moon and their task is to save humanity, then it would make sense for them to conduct these continuous cycles to evolve the androids to a point that they can be possibly be used as a vessel to actually restore humanity in the future. Sakurazuka posted:Yeah it seems to me like there's still two separate groups fighting, the machine consciousness and whoever is overseeing the androids, presumably some remnant of human consciousness/AI on the moon. The latter group is responsible for the YorHa destruction cycle, I guess they used the machines to do it as basically a false flag operation to keep the other androids around, like the resistance group, in the dark. I am 99% sure that the only ones in control are the machines / machine network. There is no human AI or genomes or whatever the gently caress on the moon. There is probably just some skeleton crew that runs the fake broadcasts to give the androids something to believe in. The machine network keeps setting up Yorha and fighting them so they can evolve. Once Yorha runs it's course, they blow it up and rebuild a newer set of androids to fight against so they can keep evolving.
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Mar 24, 2017 13:21
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I spent about 5 days since the pc release on Friday binging though the game's main routes and every sidequest i found, and then was finally able to catch up on 100+ pages of this thread without having to worry about spoilers. Pretty great read actually! I've played 99.9% of my almost 60 hours on hard - which was still pretty trivial except for a few setpiece scenes or shmup 1hko sections that didn't let me access the chip loadouts for some reason - and having never played a Yoko Taro or Nier game before nothing in this struck me as particularly sadistic - especially since you can just cruise back on easy without issues. Maybe except for the part where he makes you watch how he deletes your savegame in excruciating detail. I'll probably skip some of the more tedious completion stuff as i've seen most of what i care about and can youtube the rest. But I've played enough Souls games to appreciate some of funnier or obscure dick moves or mechanical quirks of the game so most of the things that bothered me ended up being my own fault (like skipping the "save location" plugin and then missing manual checkpoints for about an hour near the end of C). Although i can definitely see a ton of design choices that will infuriate players immensely. I luckily had no issues with the PC port besides bad performance (but i knew that since my pc didn't even meet minimum requirements) but i hope crashes and savegame loss are addressed as quickly as possible, that just sucks. Also maybe it was just the specific mixture of mood and tonal shifts - this is definitely one of the funniest game i've played in a long while, all buried under a layer of ridiculous anime - which i usually have an extremely low annoyance threshold for - but the only character death in the inevitable tragic culling during route C and onward that i felt genuinely bummed about was 6O. If deleting my savegame had opened up a NG+ option of saving her that would've been very welcome, but Yoko obviously doesn't roll that way. Definitely my GOTY so far on its own very special list, as obviously flawed and rough around the edges (by design) it is. RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 13:28
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Tarezax posted:one of the other things about hacking is that autoheal chips continue to function as normal during the hacking sequence. great for when you're in a panic situation Pods also continue cooldown during hacking time  This actually makes 9S much stronger then 2B because you can 3 pod charge blades program for mondo damage then hack while they cooldown.
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Mar 24, 2017 13:29
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I am 99% sure that the only ones in control are the machines / machine network. There is no human AI or genomes or whatever the gently caress on the moon. There is probably just some skeleton crew that runs the fake broadcasts to give the androids something to believe in. The machine network keeps setting up Yorha and fighting them so they can evolve. Once Yorha runs it's course, they blow it up and rebuild a newer set of androids to fight against so they can keep evolving. It's really confusing because it feels like it could've been the intention but nothing directly alludes to it. This feels like something supplementary story material is gonna clarify in the future. What supports it however is how they make an appearance in person at the end of both cycles to taunt A2 when her unit is about to be sacrificed and then to 9S and in the first case they explicitly know the android plan is for the unit to die. Their motivations are SUPER muddled though if it's the case and requires serious mental gymnastics to make it work out I 100% don't believe your claim about the androids never sending the remaining salvageable human material to the moon though. The Council of Humanity is a sham but I don't see why the Project Gestalt memos would outright lie Nina fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 13:30
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But hacking kills momentum.
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Mar 24, 2017 13:30
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:There is no human AI or genomes or whatever the gently caress on the moon. I don't think there's any real reason to believe this. I mean, keep in mind that the Tower was even originally intended to target the server on the moon with all of that information before the machine consciousness had a change of heart. The impression I'm given isn't that the machines had any influence over the YoRHa stuff at all. Instead, it seems like the androids put in the backdoor specifically to lose YoRHa to cover the truth and no more. I don't think the machines were doing anything deliberately with the conflict to push their evolution either. The consciousness debated it in front of us, and a lot of that was Pod 042 loving with them. Instead, wasn't that driven by using each of their machines on the network as a node for processing one specific facet of human culture?
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Mar 24, 2017 13:30
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The real issue is that if the Red Girls are behind everything it makes the story have an actual bad guy and that'd be a huge step down from Nier Also I'm personally fond of the whole "Humanity is extinct so the androids fabricate a false humanity that actually starts leading them" theory because it'd feel like a direct reference to Voltaire's famous quote "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him" that fits both into the overall theme revolving around philosophers as well as humanity's allegorical status as the androids' god Nina fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 13:34
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Nina posted:The real issue is that if the Red Girls are behind everything it makes the story have an actual bad guy and that'd be a huge step down from Nier On the other hand having their comeuppance being that they copied human nature too well and learned about interspecies conflict and started fighting among themselves is very Taro 
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Mar 24, 2017 13:43
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Nostalgia4Dogges posted:PS4 version have HDR? I don't have an HDR capable monitor so if it defaults on, I can't tell, but there's no toggle for it like FFXV has in its options menu so I'd guess no.
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Mar 24, 2017 13:46
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:Your Dodge almost entirely consists of invincibility frames, you can chain infinite of them together. I thought it did to be honest. I just got splatted by the drill and then I thought it would lift up but it just kept grinding on my rear end  Will play it on easy tonight and then switch it back over to normal
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Mar 24, 2017 13:58
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Yeah the dodge is very generous but enemies hit hard, especially at the start, and if you mistime the first hit you can get wombo-comboed to death even with auto-item on.
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Mar 24, 2017 14:03
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CrashScreen posted:I don't think there's any real reason to believe this. I mean, keep in mind that the Tower was even originally intended to target the server on the moon with all of that information before the machine consciousness had a change of heart. The impression I'm given isn't that the machines had any influence over the YoRHa stuff at all. Instead, it seems like the androids put in the backdoor specifically to lose YoRHa to cover the truth and no more. I'm just kind of throwing out ideas at this point though.
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Mar 24, 2017 14:13
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Some of that doesn't make sense; the skeleton crew on the moon is YorHa, the only thing there really is some human DNA and someone who does broadcasts when, assumedly, commander White says to. Machines might have done it, but the androids themselves are also attempts to evolve, too; one of the entire running themes is the efforts to become more human by both the machines and the androids, with the tragic misunderstanding of them from anything more then "sex and violence." YorHa certainly exists by the machine's will, because they play dumb and at a disadvantage to grow in conflict while still technically following their orders, but YorHa themselves are a separate group with the same sort of objectives. It could be that the data is being collected by the terminals and when project YorHa is deleted (and later reestablished) it is used to boost machines further, but it's not said. It's purposefully vague. Emil's heads story does say there's another machine war and the cycle continues, 2B and all, but I am not sure if I should take that seriously.
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Mar 24, 2017 14:50
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Sakurazuka posted:Yeah the dodge is very generous but enemies hit hard, especially at the start, and if you mistime the first hit you can get wombo-comboed to death even with auto-item on. the timing is pretty generous. you can just spam dodge during enemy chains and dodge every hit. really helps with long reaching enemies that swing in big arcs or spinny blade enemies.
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Mar 24, 2017 14:57
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Gamerofthegame posted:Emil's heads story does say there's another machine war and the cycle continues, 2B and all, but I am not sure if I should take that seriously. I don't remember that happening at all.
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Mar 24, 2017 14:57
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I think I got really lucky in the (late game boss) Adam fight. I resurrected what ended up being a level 40 android to help and the boss got absolutely destroyed (after failing my first solo attempt).
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Mar 24, 2017 15:04
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Hommando posted:I don't remember that happening at all. It's a story that seems like what happens in the game but it's dated in the 12000s.
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Mar 24, 2017 15:13
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Romes128 posted:I think I got really lucky in the (late game boss) Adam fight. I resurrected what ended up being a level 40 android to help and the boss got absolutely destroyed (after failing my first solo attempt). As an aside, the track that plays in that area, and the track during the boss fight, are two of my favorites. This game's soundtrack is seriously off the wall.
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Mar 24, 2017 15:16
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Nina posted:It's a story that seems like what happens in the game but it's dated in the 12000s. Got a link to it?
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Mar 24, 2017 15:20
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Romes128 posted:I think I got really lucky in the (late game boss) Adam fight. I resurrected what ended up being a level 40 android to help and the boss got absolutely destroyed (after failing my first solo attempt).
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Mar 24, 2017 15:35
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Nina posted:It's a story that seems like what happens in the game but it's dated in the 12000s.
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Mar 24, 2017 15:40
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Zereth posted:Does the game ever state what the current year is? 11945
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Mar 24, 2017 15:42
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That could just be a confused Emil that survived since the previous timeline and is talking about the current events of Automata.
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Mar 24, 2017 15:50
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rear end posted:Japanese audio is cool but reading subs while playing at the same time is annoying and I was thinking of switching back to English. Out of curiosity what do you guys prefer? I liked JPN VA but thought the ENG VA was fine. 9S sounds cuter in the former though and you spend a lot of time with him.
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Mar 24, 2017 15:50
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I seriously thought 9S was being played by Yuri Lowenthall until this thread. His VA's no Liam-O'Brian-as-Grimoire-Weiss, but he does a good job all the same.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:00
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The real reason to play in English is for a certain shop's english lyrics.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:09
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:I seriously thought 9S was being played by Yuri Lowenthall until this thread. His VA's no Liam-O'Brian-as-Grimoire-Weiss, but he does a good job all the same. Yeah, at first I was all "Oh yeah, he's doing a pretty decent job at playing a bland snarky guy" and then Route C happened and I'm pretty sure he deserves some kind of award.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:09
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I am 99% sure that the only ones in control are the machines / machine network. There is no human AI or genomes or whatever the gently caress on the moon. There is probably just some skeleton crew that runs the fake broadcasts to give the androids something to believe in. The machine network keeps setting up Yorha and fighting them so they can evolve. Once Yorha runs it's course, they blow it up and rebuild a newer set of androids to fight against so they can keep evolving. Yorha was set up by androids. The androids specifically used machine cores to make Yorha because they thought it would be more humane, which makes no sense if the creators ARE machines. The point (as far as I can tell) is that the machines had no interest in winning the war because they would stop evolving, and the androids behind Yorha had no real interest in winning the war because it would mean that the lie about humans on the moon would get out. Basically, the resistance/Yorha soldiers were getting hosed by both sides, being forced to fight a war that no one really wanted to win.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:12
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One thing that feels a bit badly written/explained is how 2B was supposedly assigned to kill 9S. Sure, you kill him twice in the playthrough, but both times it was because of circumstances that happened during the mission, not because 9S learned too much.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:12
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ymgve posted:One thing that feels a bit badly written/explained is how 2B was supposedly assigned to kill 9S. Sure, you kill him twice in the playthrough, but both times it was because of circumstances that happened during the mission, not because 9S learned too much. I think it's implied 2B killed him several times before. She asks him to address her informally in the prologue because previous incarnations of 9S had earned that intimacy
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Mar 24, 2017 16:17
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ymgve posted:One thing that feels a bit badly written/explained is how 2B was supposedly assigned to kill 9S. Sure, you kill him twice in the playthrough, but both times it was because of circumstances that happened during the mission, not because 9S learned too much. The thing is when she's actually in the situation where she's supposed to kill him she decides to send him away and goes off to die herself instead. Those two cases where 9S does die but it's not 2B's mission at the time to kill him are kinda shown for emotional impact I guess? Tarezax posted:I think it's implied 2B killed him several times before. She asks him to address her informally in the prologue because previous incarnations of 9S had earned that intimacy Actually I thought that and being able to flirt with him during setting is deception in order to lower his guard but the whole point is that those fake feelings end up becoming real when the time comes and she's supposed to execute her mission
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Mar 24, 2017 16:18
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ymgve posted:One thing that feels a bit badly written/explained is how 2B was supposedly assigned to kill 9S. Sure, you kill him twice in the playthrough, but both times it was because of circumstances that happened during the mission, not because 9S learned too much. 9s got merked plenty of times before the playable story.
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Mar 24, 2017 16:24
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Gamerofthegame posted:9s got merked plenty of times before the playable story. Yeah, but they should have showed us that. Would be a nice twist if at some point when playing 2B during route C you suddenly get "New mission orders: E-type protocol activated. Eliminate the unit known as 9S"
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Mar 24, 2017 16:28
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Zinkraptor posted:Yorha was set up by androids. The androids specifically used machine cores to make Yorha because they thought it would be more humane, which makes no sense if the creators ARE machines. The point (as far as I can tell) is that the machines had no interest in winning the war because they would stop evolving, and the androids behind Yorha had no real interest in winning the war because it would mean that the lie about humans on the moon would get out. Basically, the resistance/Yorha soldiers were getting hosed by both sides, being forced to fight a war that no one really wanted to win. Nina posted:The thing is when she's actually in the situation where she's supposed to kill him she decides to send him away and goes off to die herself instead. Those two cases where 9S does die but it's not 2B's mission at the time to kill him are kinda shown for emotional impact I guess?
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Mar 24, 2017 16:30
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