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None of that is really any different than any other game, though. GTA:O? Grind forever to make the billion dollars you need to experience everything in the game and also to have the vehicles and services you need to be competitive. Destiny? Yeah you might have to grind a little. Any MMO that you pay a monthly fee to play? The entire point of the game is to grind so you can get better poo poo to make it easier to grind. Nothing that this game is doing is particularly unusual for a modern online multiplayer game. Plenty of games have a purchase price and also require a large amount of in-game currency to unlock / buy the good poo poo and the prettiest barbie dresses.
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Mar 24, 2017 06:14
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Loopoo posted:Revenge Gear builds are utter wank, especially with the constant zone spam. But I stand by my original argument that facing off against max gear people as a low gear character isn't a death sentence. I regularly play Dominion with classes that aren't my main and manage to do alright. 1v1's are fine, it gets a bit more difficult when you're facing off against multiple opponents without the advantage having good gear grants you. Yeah it's still possible to do well especially if you have a decent team. Also with such high gear they may be relying on that too much and be open to some actual skilled dueling even if you have no gear at all. I particularly enjoyed a kensei spamming his all attacks are unbockable feat by just parrying him over and over. still died but it was fun for a few seconds
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Mar 24, 2017 06:18
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Wandle Cax posted:Yeah it's still possible to do well especially if you have a decent team. Also with such high gear they may be relying on that too much and be open to some actual skilled dueling even if you have no gear at all. I particularly enjoyed a kensei spamming his all attacks are unbockable feat by just parrying him over and over. still died but it was fun for a few seconds That's actually a really good point. I've noticed I actually play better (in terms of skill) when I'm on my lovely-geared characters, cause I can't rely on my super-high-attack gear to help me quickly kill an enemy. When I play Orochi, even if I'm at the top of the scoreboard, I usually die a hell of a lot more, cause I do dumb and risky poo poo cause I figure "my gear will tank the damage".
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Mar 24, 2017 06:22
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limited posted:Shamelessly reposted, but nothing like a dev admitting outright they're quite happy loving the player base over mobile-game grinding style. Sounds eminently reasonable to me, especially since it's, y'know, cosmetic What's that about new heros being 25,000 though?
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Mar 24, 2017 06:31
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:Sounds eminently reasonable to me, especially since it's, y'know, cosmetic They put the new heroes at such a high price so the people who actually pay IRL money for the season pass don't feel cheated. If I dropped 20 quid or however much it is they're asking for the S1 Pass, I'd be a little bit annoyed if it turned out the new classes only costing 5 or 10 thousand steel each. Cause it'd make me think "I could have got them for free instead of paying". It's like in Rainbow Six. New operators cost 25,000 renown (steel) which is definitely doable, but it severely limits you to getting one operative a month or so. So if you've got your eye on a hero you really like the look of, you can get it for free just through grinding. But dropping IRL cash on the Season Pass nets you all new operators / classes for the next year without having to grind, as well as giving you a week early access to them.
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Mar 24, 2017 06:37
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Ah I get it, I thought it was confirmed that it was 25000 steel. Worth mentioning though - you can play heroes you haven't unlocked, and even earn experience and loot. You just can't equip new items. Which honestly is fine since pre-renown 2 there's like, fuckall that's actually useful in terms of items.
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Mar 24, 2017 06:39
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The Iron Rose posted:Ah I get it, I thought it was confirmed that it was 25000 steel. I doubt that'll be the case for the new classes. I'm pretty sure they'll be kept behind the 25,000 steel requirement to unlock them. Otherwise it makes getting a season pass completely pointless.
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Mar 24, 2017 06:43
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having the highlander be a rob roy type fills my desire for some sort of fencer character, was kind of hoping it would be a musketeer type though because imagine the fuckin' hats he'd get wonder who the fourth guy will be, hope it's something hard to predict like a Jaguar Warrior (also good for hat potential) or an Egyptian dude
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Mar 24, 2017 07:04
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I'm still enjoying the game. I just dinged rep 4 with my Shugoki. I'm not great at the game, but I get mine often enough. It's a shame that revenge gear is so powerful, but there are those few occasions where you turn into a raid boss and KO 2 or even 3 people back to back that's just fun as hell.
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Mar 24, 2017 07:37
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Found this link on another site: Thank you!
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Mar 24, 2017 10:52
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Babe Magnet posted:Wonder who the fourth guy will be, hope it's something hard to predict like a Jaguar Warrior (also good for hat potential) or an Egyptian dude I hope past the first 3 being more applicable to their sides, that yeah the further 3 get to be some real weird poo poo. Give me a Jaguar Warrior or like a spooky Rajput with their face covered up 
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Mar 24, 2017 12:03
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Give me a homeless hobo with a shiv
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Mar 24, 2017 12:07
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Mister Bup posted:Player counts are tanking pretty fast, I'll be impressed if it's still going for the second wave of characters, even the first. Yeah I like the game a lot actually, but I'm not playing it still. I'll return once they put more characters in though, because the core of the game is SUPER solid. A few things just turn me off of it though, mostly the gear grind and certain imbalances. Could use way more maps as well...didnt help that they removed 2 viking maps suddenly either
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Mar 24, 2017 12:10
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I doubt I'll ever get to the required skill where I can regularly beat Wardens. They're the only class that shits on me, especially if they just go fully defensive and don't attempt to parry any of my attacks. As Orochi, there's literally nothing I can do. Top attacks are dangerous cause they can pull off that instant reversal move. Guard breaks are whack cause they tech them nonstop, even with feinting (since they never go for parrying). Only thing that works is heavy feint to the right, then instant zone attack, but they learn after the first time and it's super hard to pull off after that. Then I've got the vortex to contend with, and double rolling back to reset the fight is just boring. Honestly the shittiest class to fight against, it's never fun. I have better luck fighting them with Valkyrie, but her damage output isn't as high as Assassin classes, so it's always hard-won victories. gently caress. Wardens. At least with defensive classes like Warlord, they're slow to compensate for said defence. So juking them out with feints into lights works, cause they can't block quick enough. Warden doesn't suffer from the same speed penalty, and they can block everything if they're somewhat competent.
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Mar 24, 2017 13:08
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So wait did everyone get the pre-order outfits today or something? I just got on the game for the night and while going through menus the game blew up with a HEY MAN HAVE SOME OUTFITS ENJOY notice and when I went to look I recognized it as the pre-order stuff with the crosses on knights and tats on vikings and all that junk. I mean not complaining, but wondered if I hit a really cool bug or they were just time exclusive or something.
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Mar 24, 2017 13:09
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Oh, fighting Warden (especially Rep 5+ ones) is just dull. They're the Ken flowchart of this game, as if you can break the mixup, they can't defend for poo poo. The entire gameplan is 'start mixup, hope to kill you before you get out', and the ways out (for my Shugoki, anyway) seems to be either Light them out of the unblockable, or manage a Parry on one of the Lights. Then if you reset them to neutral, toss them around for a while. Actually, it's kinda like SF4 Vortex (Think Akuma / El Fuerte) I don't think it's 'overpowered' per se, but it's deeply uninteresting as it's entirely binary - Either you're 'in vortex' and trying to get out, or they're blocking, and they're so used to being on the offensive they can't defend for poo poo.
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Mar 24, 2017 13:21
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titties posted:None of that is really any different than any other game, though. This is just lazy, context-free thinking. "Grand Theft Auto Online had f2p elements" completely misses the point that Grand Theft Auto Online was supplemental to the huge single-player game of GTA V. That's what you paid the money for. For Honor has a poorly-written, repetitive, perfunctory single-player campaign without much content or replay value and I can't imagine anybody being satisfied with it for 60 dollars. The multiplayer is the thing. And the multiplayer has an unwieldy practice mode, unbalanced RNG-based progression that allows veteran players to literally have better characters than the scrubs in 4v4 modes, and a currency system locked to a Daily Order grinds that frequently (and deliberately) features annoying restrictions and tedious requirements, and f2p-style monetization for any sort of character customization element. Also, MMOs are a different genre of game, that serve a different audience and purpose. You can't just say "well it's in there, so it should be here". This reminds me of when every single publisher chased Call of Duty for years and ended up muddling a bunch of games. So yeah, actually, it is quite different from other games. It's very unusual to release such a low-content full-priced game that's monetized like a f2p title. Edit: for example a lesser version of this same scheme went on in Assassin's Creed Black Flag multiplayer. Black Flag also had a gearing system that let vets be strictly better than newbies, expensive pay cosmetics, boosts and grinds. I dearly loved Black Flag multi and thought the f2p elements were exploitative but how could I bitch too much? Black Flag came with a huge single player game, the multiplayer was the bonus (and worked a hell of a lot better than this title in execution tbh) Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 17:13
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I payed $60 for SFV and For Honor beginning to think I'm a sucker for games with poo poo companies that are disconnected from the community.
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Mar 24, 2017 18:10
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Keegers posted:I payed $60 for SFV and For Honor beginning to think I'm a sucker for games with poo poo companies that are disconnected from the community. You're doin ok if that's your list
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Mar 24, 2017 19:13
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This game would be amazing if i could play two hours without a disconnect every 20 minutes (with luck). Ubisoft should've probably saved enough money for decent servers by now but welp.quote:This is just lazy, context-free thinking. "Grand Theft Auto Online had f2p elements" completely misses the point that Grand Theft Auto Online was supplemental to the huge single-player game of GTA V. That's what you paid the money for. But objectively, for anyone who wants to play MP that's a factual thing that sucks. Which doesn't really exist in For Honor with such intensity. quote:For Honor has a poorly-written, repetitive, perfunctory single-player campaign without much content or replay value and I can't imagine anybody being satisfied with it for 60 dollars. The multiplayer is the thing. And the multiplayer has an unwieldy practice mode, unbalanced RNG-based progression that allows veteran players to literally have better characters than the scrubs in 4v4 modes, and a currency system locked to a Daily Order grinds that frequently (and deliberately) features annoying restrictions and tedious requirements, and f2p-style monetization for any sort of character customization element. quote:So yeah, actually, it is quite different from other games. It's very unusual to release such a low-content full-priced game that's monetized like a f2p title. Game is good, connectivity is woeful, peacekeeper is aggravating.
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Mar 24, 2017 20:16
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Mans posted:High gear maximizes one stat but considerable lowers another. If you stack attack damage on your weapon you're going to have terrible defense, if you stack stamina you're going to have low exhaustion recovery. It's not a straight upgrade but min maxing with pros and cons. You can still beat the snot out of anyone with vanilla gear. The only thing that is currently screwed up is the ease with which you can stack revenge. The crying over gear, which only affects a single game mode, is a tremendous over reaction. There are five game modes, three of which are affected by gear. If you're not loaded on gear, you're left playing nothing but duel and brawl if you want a fight on even grounds with your opponent. Everything else you run the risk of being matched against a team of 108s who will spam revenge and kill you with ease the majority of the time.
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Mar 24, 2017 20:27
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You can get gear that boosts both defense and attack. You lose a little stamina recovery but it doesn't make a huge difference. The problem is that a min maxed setup maximizes the most powerful stats while minimizing ones that either don't matter or are actually good to have low. The best example is helmets. A good helmet (for all but maybe Warlord and Conq) should max debuff resistance so you can Counter guard break even when you get parried and minimize bleeding. The secondary stat should be exhaustion recovery, which is helpful in general but not super important. And finally you should minimize revenge duration. With a short duration you can proc revenge multiple times per engagement and each time you get a health boost and the auto-parry knockdown animation when you trigger it. With a helmet like that you're not really making any trade offs, and even if I could max out revenge duration, I would leave it at minimum. Chest and shoulder armor you can minimize the block damage related stats because the difference between a full bar and an empty one is like 4 damage points. For the weapon you just max revenge because it's so ridiculously good.
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Mar 24, 2017 20:41
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Like i said, revenge is terrible at the moment even in simple duels and should be revamped\removed. In the end what defines a fight is skill between players and not gear in general. I say this cause i never open crates and the max gear i have is 40 on my Orochi and i still somehow win matches against prestige million 
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Mar 24, 2017 20:53
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Trillhouse posted:You can get gear that boosts both defense and attack. You lose a little stamina recovery but it doesn't make a huge difference. Doesn't block damage also scale on revenge attack? I'm pretty sure I get a lot of kills/executions like that with the Berserker's super-armor dash to top heavy. Like the hit's blocked but then it goes into the execution animation anyways.
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Mar 24, 2017 20:57
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Mans posted:Like i said, revenge is terrible at the moment even in simple duels and should be revamped\removed. In the end what defines a fight is skill between players and not gear in general. These two sentences contradict one another. You acknowledge that revenge is messed up in its current iteration, yet somehow that doesn't factor into the fights themselves and the person with more skill will win. In brawl and duel you're right, and in elim/skirmish/dominion you would have a point about stat tradeoffs if it weren't for a specific aspect of how revenge works. When you activate it you get your revenge shield along with whatever bonuses you've geared for, but more importantly you knock down anyone who's swinging at you. So if you're a player who's better than the person you're fighting, you get them to low health, swing at them, get knocked down by their revenge, then potentially one-shot because now they're in revenge and have their attack massively increased while you're defenseless on the ground. Maybe you can overcome the massive advantage they have and still win, but a low gear player going up against a high gear player has to always worry about that cheap shot. Giving newer players a mechanical disadvantage in over half the game modes is just bad design.
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Mar 24, 2017 21:07
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I guarantee you that Evil Canadian could whip my rear end up and down the parapets regardless of what Gear each of us was wearing but that's because he's insanely good and I'm mid-level. We're not talking about matchups like that, we're talking about players with roughly equal gameplay skill and guess what? The guy with more Gear is favored to win. Gear is so plain and obvious at tilting favor at high levels. It leads me to suspect either a) Ubisoft's lead gameplay guy is an incompetent bumbler who is completely unable to achieve to his stated design goal of balanced Gear vs vanilla, or b) they're flat out lying about wanting it to be a lateral upgrade; they want it to matter a lot so that you're tempted to buy the boosters and Steel. Edit: just to expound here, I want to point out that if you want to customize your character with emotes or cosmetics of any variety you're going to have to do Daily Orders, which are going to send you into those 4v4 modes against Geared opponents and all the problems that entails. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 21:24
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If the gear were zero sum (i.e. It has 100points split across three stats and higher gear just weighted it less evenly so you could be more specialized) gear would be less of an issue. Then there would be trade offs. But now it's more like purple gear gets 175 points and two stats way above average. And the stats within each piece of gear aren't evenly "important". Some stats are hugely important (revenge attack and revenge gain on injury) while others on the same piece just don't matter all that much (throw distance if you're anything other than Warlord or Raider won't help you much, and can even hurt you because throwing a fatigued enemy might put them out of range of your top heavy). This stuff also wouldn't be an issue if they just loving did something about revenge. Getting revenge seconds after you get double teamed, and then getting the bonus health and auto knockdown is ridiculous enough. Add in DOUBLE damage, better defense, and uninterruptible attacks on top of it. All of the sudden a Shugoki is unkillable, doesn't get interrupted, and has an unblockable heavy that does 120+damage. I really don't know what the devs were thinking. Or how this got past them. Didn't anyone think to test max gear? And why is it taking so much time to fix it? At least give us a gearstats disabled 4v4 mode already. Dominion, elimination...gently caress I'll take gearless skirmish by now It sucks because this game is so fun but the people in charge are completely inept. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Gear is so plain and obvious at tilting favor at high levels. It leads me to suspect either a) Ubisoft's lead gameplay guy is an incompetent bumbler who is completely unable to achieve to his stated design goal of balanced Gear vs vanilla, or b) they're flat out lying about wanting it to be a lateral upgrade; they want it to matter a lot so that you're tempted to buy the boosters and Steel. It sucks because people compare it to the old call of duties that started all the unblockable gear in multiplayer trend, but forget that in those games you started out with the best guns and everything else was a sidegrade or even a downgrade. And the grind wasn't nearly as bad. You could get all the guns in the game faster than you could kit out a single For Honor character. Trillhouse fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 21:33
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Is there no way to punish a conqueror's shield charge? I did some testing with a friend and it seems like conqueror can always block or parry someone who sidesteps the charge and counterattacks (like we failed rarely enough to blame it on ourselves).
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Mar 24, 2017 21:42
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Complaining about the amount of game you get for $60 is severely myopic since people pay $10-15 to see a movie in a theater. By that logic a game should have at least 12 hours worth of content, anything more and that's just bonus. It's completely subjective. As it is, games are generally severely undervalued for the amount of work and content actually involved. It's a fair complaint to say you paid retail price for a game that's literally broken and doesn't work, or has some horrid broken flaw that inherently prevents you from even experiencing all of its content. Examples of this are many. This is not one of those games, really. There are definite weird design choices and straight up poorly thought out/implemented concepts, but ultimately it's still a complete game with more polish on it than many other games at release. Y'all need to chill.
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Mar 24, 2017 21:43
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Revenge is the one thing that is complete bonkers in a system that needs a revamp, no doubt about it. I'm not saying the system is good as it is. I'm saying that you can still beat high geared players by playing well, EVEN if the gear system is far from perfect at the current time.Hydrocodone posted:Is there no way to punish a conqueror's shield charge? I did some testing with a friend and it seems like conqueror can always block or parry someone who sidesteps the charge and counterattacks (like we failed rarely enough to blame it on ourselves). shoguki can grab him and i think the Raider's charge catches him too. Maybe guard break after sidestepping. I usually just back off because there's no way to punish him consistently.
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Mar 24, 2017 21:46
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Which characters are you playing? Raider and I think a few others can punish a dodged shield bash with a guaranteed guardbreak. You should be able to land a light attack but the timing is really tight. 1v1ing a Conq is tough as hell.
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Mar 24, 2017 21:47
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Really they just need to have revenge have an opponent check and see how many opponents you have in the immediate area, say a 20 foot radius. If it's any number other than 1, you can trigger revenge if you fill the bar. If it's 1, you can fill the bar but you'll never get the prompt because you're in a one on one setting.
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Mar 24, 2017 21:53
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We tried Orochi and PK against him. Both of their sidestep and swing/stab attacks didn't work and neither did sidestep and guard break.
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Mar 24, 2017 21:53
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Maybe you should have to die first to be able to pop revenge instead of starting a match, blocking two hits, and suddenly you have it.
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Mar 24, 2017 21:55
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Fuzz posted:Complaining about the amount of game you get for $60 is severely myopic since people pay $10-15 to see a movie in a theater. By that logic a game should have at least 12 hours worth of content, anything more and that's just bonus. It's completely subjective. Uh, this is incoherent. I'm comparing For Honor to other video games. Not movies. Yes value is subjective but the amount of content in the video game For Honor compared to other video games is not. And this game doesn't have much. Now of course if you felt that the amount of content you got for 60 dollars was adequate then I'm honestly happy for you. Have fun. I'm going to continue to discuss it here, in the For Honor discussion thread. Please respect that and stop trying to shut it down with "chill out" comments which are thinly disguised "stop talking about this" requests.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:02
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Capn Beeb posted:Maybe you should have to die first to be able to pop revenge instead of starting a match, blocking two hits, and suddenly you have it. It would be interesting if you could only proc it on death, and you died when it ran out. Give the revenge player fast run speed so you cant just run away. And obviously turn down the revenge damage. Probably take away knockdown on headbutt/shouldercharge too. So a character on the bad side of a beat down would have one last chance to get revenge. I dunno. Just do something Ubi.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:08
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Fuzz posted:Complaining about the amount of game you get for $60 is severely myopic since people pay $10-15 to see a movie in a theater. By that logic a game should have at least 12 hours worth of content, anything more and that's just bonus. It's completely subjective. it's an insanely profitable industry
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Mar 24, 2017 22:13
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Trillhouse posted:I'm suspecting the same thing. Ubi in recent history hasn't shied away from hiding strong multiplayer advantages behind grindwalls that can be skipped with money. Im thinking someone up high decided cosmetics-only gear wasn't enough to push steel purchases. I mentioned it in passing earlier, but Assassin's Creed: Black Flag let higher level players literally make their abilities better (shorten the cooldowns, increase the radius, make the debuff effect stronger) through spending in-game currency. And Rainbow Six Siege straight up allows you to improve your gun to be absolutely better than stock (with grips and scopes) - the "saving grace" there being that it takes only a few matches to kit yourself out, instead of dozens. This kind of thing is in Ubi's wheelhouse and has been for a while, I'm sorry to say. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 22:13
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I mentioned it in passing earlier, but Assassin's Creed: Black Flag let higher level players literally make their abilities better (shorten the cooldowns, increase the radius, make the debuff effect stronger) through spending in-game currency. And Rainbow Six Siege straight up allows you to improve your gun to be absolutely better than stock (with grips and scopes) - the "saving grace" there being that it takes only a few matches to kit yourself out, instead of dozens. This kind of thing is in Ubi's wheelhouse and has been for a while, I'm sorry to say. But it is with the benefit of long term support and free content, i'm glad to say. Basically if you enjoy the game try to spend more time enjoying playing it rather than doomsaying every aspect of it, and if you're unable to enjoy it take a break and play something else. That's my philosophy anyway
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Mar 24, 2017 23:40
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In the short term, the game probably would be quite a bit more enjoyable if they just disabled all the knight faction characters. Except for Lawbringer. He's cool, he can stay.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:46
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