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So where can I read a realistic/objective description of what's going to happen to premiums/markets under the PPACA with no intervention at all? My impression is that Ryan is at least partially right, and costs will continue to increase for the next several years. In that case, their post-defeat strategy of waiting makes some amount of sense. The HFC will likely continue to prevent sensical legislation without Democratic votes, though.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:15
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Discendo Vox posted:My concern is that there have enough power just through HHS to genuinely crater ACA markets, spike premiums, drive insurers out, etc, that a repeal starts seeming plausible to the ignorant public.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:18
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Convergence posted:So where can I read a realistic/objective description of what's going to happen to premiums/markets under the PPACA with no intervention at all? It'll be fine assuming the GOP doesn't gently caress with its funding
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Mar 24, 2017 22:18
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Monkey Fracas posted:If only they had actually been working on a replacement for the 7 years they were bitching about Obamacare and holding masturbatory votes to repeal that were guaranteed to go nowhere instead of making GBS threads out this half-baked hackjob then maybe they could have passed something. All Republicans had for 7 years were memes and obstruction. They never thought passed once the obstruction works and they regain majority on how to pass bills as a party. But hey this is a party that is so thoroughly intellectually bankrupt it doesn't surprise me.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:20
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Joementum's killing it. https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/845384576109285377 NoDamage posted:Ultimately repeal is fine as long as it gets replaced with a universal option. The problem is can the Democrats actually make that happen? Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that during this term, in the next two years, the administration could destroy insurance markets, and make the public think "it's Obamacare's fault, the Republicans were right, I need more freedom to choose". And then they pass something much like what we just got.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:21
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Discendo Vox posted:My concern is that there have enough power just through HHS to genuinely crater ACA markets, spike premiums, drive insurers out, etc, that a repeal starts seeming plausible to the ignorant public. Yeah, we're not done yet. We need to start holding the HHS's feet to the fire, and letting people know whenever they step out of line.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:21
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NoDamage posted:Ultimately repeal is fine as long as it gets replaced with a universal option. The problem is can the Democrats actually make that happen? The only way Democrats get the power to make that happen is sweeping into power in a massive backlash against Trumpcare, which means they are going to make incremental improvements to the health care system, not redo it all again. Obamacare is an excellent base to build on, they can fix the next 3 years of sabotage and start implementing public options in underserved areas.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:22
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Discendo Vox posted:Joementum's killing it. Joementum is Dave Wiegel?
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Mar 24, 2017 22:23
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Discendo Vox posted:Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that during this term, in the next two years, the administration could destroy insurance markets, and make the public think "it's Obamacare's fault, the Republicans were right, I need more freedom to choose". And then they pass something much like what we just got. I have a hard time understanding how a voter hears the Republican plan was...this, then Republicans successfully run on a different replacement without, uh, saying what it is. Or why they haven't passed it already. Like, they control the entire government and people know it. They can try to blame Democrats, but its not going to work.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:26
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evilweasel posted:The only way Democrats get the power to make that happen is sweeping into power in a massive backlash against Trumpcare, which means they are going to make incremental improvements to the health care system, not redo it all again. Obamacare is an excellent base to build on, they can fix the next 3 years of sabotage and start implementing public options in underserved areas. Why don't blue states just plan for their own exchanges/public options, and then publicly push for full-repeal? Red states will be left holding their dicks - they either support it and leave all their citizens uninsured, or they vote against it and look like fools
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Mar 24, 2017 22:26
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Pollyanna posted:Yeah, we're not done yet. We need to start holding the HHS's feet to the fire, and letting people know whenever they step out of line. We have no way to hold HHS's feet to the fire, it's an administrative agency. The appointees are the kind of people who think post-approval monitoring is better than clinical trials for drug approvals. And, simultaneously, direct industry communication with clinicians about offlabeling. As in, "we have to let companies tell doctors whatever they want about what their drugs can be used for, with no evidence, to find out if the drugs work". evilweasel posted:I have a hard time understanding how a voter hears the Republican plan was...this, then Republicans successfully run on a different replacement without, uh, saying what it is. Or why they haven't passed it already. Like, they control the entire government and people know it. They can try to blame Democrats, but its not going to work. Don't you see, evilweasel?! The insurers withdrawing, the massive increase in premiums, the death spiral...it's because Obamacare is enforcing a straitjacket of regulations on states, insurers, and the American public, forcing them to spend money on these outrageous plans they don't need, pooling risks with irresponsible poor people. We have to get rid of it and let Americans have more freedom about the plans they think are right for them. The same rationales that Republicans used in the runup will be way more effective if they actually are able to sabotage the marketplaces. It's why refusing Medicare expansion was the correct tactical move for many Republicans. From the Costa interview: quote:“Time will tell. Obamacare is in for some rough days. You understand that. It’s in for some rough, rough days,” Trump said. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 24, 2017 22:26
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EugeneJ posted:Why don't blue states just plan for their own exchanges/public options, and then publicly push for full-repeal? Maybe they can after 2018 but for now there's just too few blue-controlled states to matter. It would make a lot of sense to delegate public options to states however.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:27
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evilweasel posted:Maybe they can after 2018 but for now there's just too few blue-controlled states to matter. It would make a lot of sense to delegate public options to states however. I don't think it would, economically successful blue states would be fine and red-state backwaters would starve without federal support.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:29
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https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/845386061949915142
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Mar 24, 2017 22:37
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Cause in his mind when Obamacare "explodes" he'll just blame the Democrats that it was their fault. I can't wait to see how the tax reform plays out. Watch the HFC once again block it cause the tax cuts aren't big enough. But cutting taxes is something all Republicans love anyway so that shouldn't face much resistance.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:38
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 https://twitter.com/justin_halpern/status/845386722741370881
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Mar 24, 2017 22:41
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Hilarious if true.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:43
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EugeneJ posted:Why don't blue states just plan for their own exchanges/public options, and then publicly push for full-repeal? The ACA lets states try to set up their own single payer. Vermont tried, but couldn't sell it at the end. Colorado shot it down. New York state and Minnesota have created public options independently that are doing well.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:47
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Confounding Factor posted:Hilarious if true. It's not, though I pretend it is.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:50
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People shouldn't forget this wasn't just GOP incompetence. People made sure their representatives knew they weren't going to tolerate voting for this and it made a big impact.quote:But let’s not overlook one of the more important factors: regular ol’ Americans stepped up in a big way, pressured lawmakers not to take their families’ health benefits away, and it made an enormous difference.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:50
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Ceiling fan posted:New York state and Minnesota have created public options independently that are doing well. NY has no such thing
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Mar 24, 2017 22:52
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quote:“Look, I’m a team player,” Trump said of the Republican Party. “I’ve played this team. I’ve played with the team. And they just fell a little bit short, and it’s very hard when you need almost 100 percent of the votes and we have no votes, zero, from the Democrats, it’s unheard of.” I'm a team player, and so when we lose, I know who to blame: the rest of the team.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:53
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evilweasel posted:I'm a team player, and so when we lose, I know who to blame: the rest of the team. And also the other team, for not helping us win.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:58
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evilweasel posted:I have a hard time understanding how a voter hears the Republican plan was...this, then Republicans successfully run on a different replacement without, uh, saying what it is. Or why they haven't passed it already. Like, they control the entire government and people know it. They can try to blame Democrats, but its not going to work. Americans are pretty stupid
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Mar 24, 2017 22:59
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Americans are pretty stupid Memes are pretty powerful...
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Mar 24, 2017 23:01
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Americans are pretty stupid Trying to privatize social security and the stunning incompetence of Katrina got through to people in 2006.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:02
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I don't think that's real.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:04
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[quote=" post="470673807""] “Look, I’m a team player,” Trump said of the Republican Party. “I’ve played this team. I’ve played with the team. And they just fell a little bit short, and it’s very hard when you need almost 100 percent of the votes and we have no votes, zero, from the Democrats, it’s unheard of.” [/quote] This blows my mind. Thankfully I still have insurance so I can see a specialist and receive the advanced medical help it will require for me to continue to believe this loving clown is our president. Remember when we were going to win so much we'd get sick of it? Seems the republicans are sick of winning already. No stamina, they should seek medical help.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:05
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This is a good point: https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/845393778504613888 https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/845393852806631424 twitter tonight gonna be good.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:05
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EugeneJ posted:NY has no such thing Neither does MN as far as I know.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:06
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evilweasel posted:I have a hard time understanding how a voter hears the Republican plan was...this, then Republicans successfully run on a different replacement without, uh, saying what it is. Or why they haven't passed it already. Like, they control the entire government and people know it. They can try to blame Democrats, but its not going to work. Well, they did vote to repeal Obamacare many times, but with no plan. I think knowing they didn't have Veto override is a legit reason for not spending the political capital and time to try to push through legislation. However, the fact that it was some secret plan that was obviously never actually planned out to any degree was pretty stupid.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:07
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 yes, that's from today
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Mar 24, 2017 23:08
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Master Twig posted:Neither does MN as far as I know. No we do not, but MN does have an expanded medicaid called MNCare, but it is not available for everyone. https://mn.gov/dhs/people-we-serve/adults/health-care/health-care-programs/programs-and-services/minnesotacare.jsp
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Mar 24, 2017 23:08
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Lockback posted:No we do not, but MN does have an expanded medicaid called MNCare, but it is not available for everyone. NY has this too called the Essential Plan: https://info.nystateofhealth.ny.gov/EssentialPlan It's limited to those making under 24k
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Mar 24, 2017 23:13
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Pollyanna posted:Joementum is Dave Wiegel? Probably not but also probably yes.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:13
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Speaking as a European who is way out of the USPOL loop - How was the Trumpcare proposal different from the pre-Obamacare status quo?
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Mar 24, 2017 23:22
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Pollyanna posted:Joementum is Dave Wiegel? Any user on DnD who is especially on point w/r/t DC is Dave Weigel. Joementum is always Dave Weigel. For at least the past 48 hours, Dave Weigel has also been posting under his evilweasel alt.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:23
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Pizdec posted:Speaking as an European who is way out of the USPOL loop - How was the Trumpcare proposal different from the pre-Obamacare status quo? "good news, your health insurance no longer has to cover medical treatments"
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Mar 24, 2017 23:24
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Pizdec posted:Speaking as a European who is way out of the USPOL loop - How was the Trumpcare proposal different from the pre-Obamacare status quo? We don't know. They tried to pass it before anyone could figure out what repealing EHB would do to the insurance markets.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:24
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evilweasel posted:People shouldn't forget this wasn't just GOP incompetence. People made sure their representatives knew they weren't going to tolerate voting for this and it made a big impact. Maybe just me but this feels like a just-barely, seat of the pants victory for incrementalism and pragmatism. It got through the courts, is through early implementation and is somehow surviving its first serious threat of repeal or serious dismantling. People showed up and shouted to defend it and its holding on. And now there is a line to start fighting and pushing for a Public Option and more medicaid expansion. Put more money on the table like last time and let some states accept it and some turn it down, make any sort of dismantling which leaves Red states hosed by comparison even harder to sell.
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Mar 24, 2017 23:25
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