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Office Pig posted:https://twitter.com/Deadspin/status/845453917064441857 this ad money is priceless you mean
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Mar 25, 2017 04:05
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Office Pig posted:https://twitter.com/Deadspin/status/845453917064441857 That is some serious delusion they had to go ahead and make these ads and air them, when it was known that this Act was hated from the beginning. I almost think it didn't even occur to them they would lose this hard. On the other hand, this was totally worth it for the laughs.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:19
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Hastings posted:That is some serious delusion they had to go ahead and make these ads and air them, when it was known that this Act was hated from the beginning. I almost think it didn't even occur to them they would lose this hard. On the other hand, this was totally worth it for the laughs. loving up this badly is kinda inconceivable if you don't accept the premise that the Republican Party is fundamentally incoherent and incompetent. They control all three branches!
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Mar 25, 2017 04:23
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sharkbomb posted:A public option represents something like a metastatic cancer for the health insurance industry, and if you understand that you understand why its an existential fight for them. People would be driven to a public option every single time those shitheads jacked up premiums, left a market, sold people terrible policies, etc etc Private healthcare can coexist with a Public Option, just not the kind of poo poo that exists now. For profit for basic insurance would die off and only nonprofits and Cadillac plans for the rich would remain. I still think using the public option is the best bet for getting America to a decent place healthcare wise.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:27
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America can have affordable healthcare, or it can have the best healthcare in the world, it can't have both. I lean towards affordable over quality.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:37
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:America can have affordable healthcare, or it can have the best healthcare in the world, it can't have both. Uhhh, that's a quaint expression, but I'd love to see the proof that Americans have the best healthcare in the world. I'll even let you pick your own metric
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Mar 25, 2017 04:41
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I Want To Believe
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Mar 25, 2017 04:44
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sharkbomb posted:Uhhh, that's a quaint expression, but I'd love to see the proof that Americans have the best healthcare in the world. I'll even let you pick your own metric I'm not saying it does. But there's a chart of quality vs affordability in healthcare and we're high in the quality and low in the affordability compared to most countries.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:54
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sharkbomb posted:Uhhh, that's a quaint expression, but I'd love to see the proof that Americans have the best healthcare in the world. I'll even let you pick your own metric For people who can afford it, you can get incredible healthcare in state of the art facilities, and often with no wait time. 11 of the 12 best hospitals in the world are in the US. For people who have great insurance, live in a big city, and enough money to not blink an eye at their deductible, there is no better place in the world to need medical care.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:56
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:I'm not saying it does. But there's a chart of quality vs affordability in healthcare and we're high in the quality and low in the affordability compared to most countries. If by "high quality" you mean "behind second and some third world nations in infant mortality, life expectancy, and access to basic health services", then yes absolutely America has better outcomes on some types of cancer, that's about it
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Mar 25, 2017 04:57
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call to action posted:If by "high quality" you mean "behind second and some third world nations in infant mortality, life expectancy, and access to basic health services", then yes absolutely I think he means "if you can pay for it" not overall. Our medical care for the rich is pretty great.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:00
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call to action posted:If by "high quality" you mean "behind second and some third world nations in infant mortality, life expectancy, and access to basic health services", then yes absolutely Take the south out of those numbers and report back.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:01
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So the argument is that wealthy Americans have really great healthcare. No poo poo I think I got confused because it didn't even occur to me that someone would feel the need to point out something so obvious. ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Take the south out of those numbers and report back. I'm not an epidemiologist, probably why I didn't realize that health outcomes only count if they're being measured north of the Mason-Dixon line
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Mar 25, 2017 05:08
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If you've traveled anywhere in your life, you'd know that America isn't the only country with poor areas. Somehow, healthcare outcomes are still lightyears better elsewhere. Unless of course you're saying we can just write off the plurality black south because...? For some reason Cubans can get better care for 90% less spend, but American Southerners can't. Are they just too black or too redneck to deserve care, would you say?
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Mar 25, 2017 05:09
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It's probably because the rest of the world isn't run by fanatic billionaire capitalists
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Mar 25, 2017 05:14
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So actually let's analyze this. Mortality Rates: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934744.html Us sits a bit high at 6.2...where does the numbers come from? By State: http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/infant-death-rate/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D Lol, they have Guam and Puerto Rico; those places healthcare has little to do with the us. gently caress Remove, Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Georgia and West Virginia and the US probably sits with the rest of Europe. California and New York are both around 4.8, that's below the EU, alongside UK and Gilbratar. Life Expectancy has a lot of factors in it, not just healthcare. http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/life-expectancy-country-2014.html We place 42nd, just a tick below the EU. http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/life-expectancy/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Life%20Expectancy%20at%20Birth%20(years)%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D Now remove Alabama, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Lousiana and you'll see much better numbers..once again. Average life expectancy in New York and California puts us above the EU, right beside UK and England As for access to basic health services, I don't have a way to quantify that, but the US is much more spread out than most countries. It would be nearly impossible for it to have as many hospitals or clinics per people as say england or spain.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:15
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Also Cuba is a bit of a misnomer. Yeah you get great healthcare when your island has been cut off from civilization for the past 50 years, doctor is the only decent job on the entire island, and education is free for students, and there are more doctors than there are cars because there's literally no other career worth studying when you don't even have access to computers, television, or radio. Much less a international market. There are plenty of doctors in Cuba. They don't have barely any resources. You can get 5 of them around you treating a cold though. So win-win?
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Mar 25, 2017 05:18
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:So actually let's analyze this. If we're going to be arbitrarily removing large geographic regions in this analysis, we may as well get super funky and pretend cardiovascular disease only exists for people that live in Belgium Holy moley we are doing great!
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Mar 25, 2017 05:23
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Also Cuba is a bit of a misnomer. Just because you piss your pants slightly less often than a toddler doesn't mean you've been toilet-trained.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:23
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Yeah it would be truly terrible if we made it so that people who wanted to become doctors could do so for free and then provide care that didn't have the cost of medical school loans baked in.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:28
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TyrantWD posted:For people who can afford it, you can get incredible healthcare in state of the art facilities, and often with no wait time. 11 of the 12 best hospitals in the world are in the US. For people who have great insurance, live in a big city, and enough money to not blink an eye at their deductible, there is no better place in the world to need medical care. "America has the best healthcare in the world -- in its possession."
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Mar 25, 2017 05:52
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Hastings posted:That is some serious delusion they had to go ahead and make these ads and air them, when it was known that this Act was hated from the beginning. I almost think it didn't even occur to them they would lose this hard. On the other hand, this was totally worth it for the laughs.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:55
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No Butt Stuff posted:Yeah it would be truly terrible if we made it so that people who wanted to become doctors could do so for free and then provide care that didn't have the cost of medical school loans baked in.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:55
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:So actually let's analyze this. I love it when the reddit generation discovers SA
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Mar 25, 2017 06:22
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"Im going to take out the worst part of the US and then compare the remainder (best) to other whole country outcomes. This is a good argument guys" 
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Mar 25, 2017 06:35
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vanbags posted:What makes you think some of his supporters won't run with the idea that he did repeal Obamacare? I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of his poor, rural supporters don't even realize what Obamacare does or how they're actually benefiting from it. Now they get to keep their insurance and go to bed with the reassurance that Trump saved the country from the inevitable implosion that Obama led us towards. I'm of the believe that Trump's (and in turn the GOPs' now) narcissism will continue directing the tone of the sound bites, and that they will blow up Fox News with a martyr complex. Trump loves attention and to redirect blame, so he'll make sure that the message is "those terrible liberals stole your chance at affordable healthcare, and now you're going to have to suffer". All of the news will be framed around the bad aspects of Obamacare that they will stuck with, such as paying for those lazy single moms who can't keep their legs together. The embarrassment of the loss is too big right now and even Fox is admitting they took a loss. The only thing they can do is try to staunch the bleeding.
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Mar 25, 2017 06:40
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I remember hearing about an executive order that supposedly killed the mandate for the ACA. What was the deal with that?
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Mar 25, 2017 09:01
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clockworkjoe posted:I remember hearing about an executive order that supposedly killed the mandate for the ACA. What was the deal with that? The idea was granting waivers to people in violation of the mandate. Effectively nullifying the mandate. It's still talk and nothing concrete has been spoken. If you wanted to kill the individual market, that's a pretty quick way to do it.
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Mar 25, 2017 09:11
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:loving up this badly is kinda inconceivable if you don't accept the premise that the Republican Party is fundamentally incoherent and incompetent. They control all three branches! The American voting public likewise is also incoherent and incompetent.
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Mar 25, 2017 09:58
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cowofwar posted:People don't become doctors to work for free. They do it for the money, also to help people at first, but mostly for the money. Just to mention: In socialism hell/utopia, doctors are among if not the highest payed profession. Like nobody is even close to pulling down general practice money, and certainly not specialist money.
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Mar 25, 2017 11:18
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https://twitter.com/abenedikt/status/845629879555108864 i was so looking forward to his tweets when he read headlines about how he failed 
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Mar 25, 2017 14:40
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So on a scale between 10 and 11 how dumb is it to think that voters blame democrats for ensuing healthcare problems?
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Mar 25, 2017 15:02
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I swear the infant mortality rate comes up every couple of months. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/why-american-babies-die/381008/ A really good piece on why America has a really high infant mortality rate. Not that anyone will read it since everyone already knows The One True Answer.
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Mar 25, 2017 15:38
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asdf32 posted:So on a scale between 10 and 11 how dumb is it to think that voters blame democrats for ensuing healthcare problems? In general I think voters tend to use the heuristic that whoever's in charge is responsible for whatever's happening, whether this is justified or not. It also seems like the president tends to take more blame than congress. Of course there will always be partisans who make the case that everything is the last guy's fault (and sometimes they're right, like when a party inherits a recession), but I think the general tendency is that it's the responsibility of the people in charge to fix stuff. Letting Obamacare "explode," if that would even happen, seems like a losing strategy. It's popular amongst the far-right base (freepers love the idea) but it's hard to get around the notion that if you're in charge, why didn't you prevent this? If you have all the power, you don't get to pass the buck when things turn to poo poo, that's on you.
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Mar 25, 2017 15:40
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Also Cuba is a bit of a misnomer. also doesn't cuba literally have laws preventing doctors from emigrating? I don't think that's do-able in democracies
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Mar 25, 2017 15:51
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evilweasel posted:https://twitter.com/abenedikt/status/845629879555108864 I love how it's newsworthy that the President of the United States did not throw a temper tantrum this morning.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:01
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An article posted earlier included a paragraph that I can't wrap my head around:quote:By making the EHB offer, Trump scared away moderates like Rep. Charlie Dent and Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, but did not pick up the votes of many Freedom Caucus members who pointed out (not unreasonably) that if you're going to repeal EHB you also need to repeal Obamacare's rule that requires insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, as otherwise insurance markets could collapse.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:49
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DaveWoo posted:I love how it's newsworthy that the President of the United States did not throw a temper tantrum this morning. Sunday morning talk shows will be brutal
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Mar 25, 2017 17:30
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Boon posted:"Im going to take out the worst part of the US and then compare the remainder (best) to other whole country outcomes. This is a good argument guys" Says the people who absolutely despise that part of the country and would prefer that it secede and everyone in it die. I mean you're only half way there. People on these forums act and voice their opinion that the south doesn't matter. So why should it matter when counting numbers? You all know those people aren't real Americans. They voted for trump.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:57
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ISeeCuckedPeople posted:Says the people who absolutely despise that part of the country and would prefer that it secede and everyone in it die. 
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Mar 25, 2017 18:03
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