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Hollismason posted:Maybe we'll find out in Season 2 !!! I can't believe it'll get a second season. At this point I think even a Power Man & Iron Fist show would get worse ratings than just another season of Luke Cage
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Mar 25, 2017 03:22
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"I am the Iron Fist." Said at least 7 times per episode. Dude shows up barefoot and oblivious to modern tech, signified by an old rear end iPod, and his mystification at an led monitor. Quickly and effortlessly sneaks around and whoops security rear end, then progressively become more and more of an idiotic chump. Suddenly he dresses like a hip cool millennial, drives a loving 2017 Aston Martin, and masters modern cell phones. After attaining Iron Fisthood, and drops eastern philosophy knowledge on the bum, somehow loses all loving sense of self control, common sense, and ALL the teachings of his master, as if he was never the Iron Fist in the first place. The Meechum story line was more interesting, and that poo poo was more vestigial than Danny's Kung Fu. Show was total garbage.
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Mar 25, 2017 03:40
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:Show was total garbage. It feels like a troll. He joined a mystical order, but only because the monks didn't want him freezing to death instead. The hero is a magic warrior monk, except he's the shittiest there's ever been. His hero's journey is at the gates of Heaven, except he got fidgety and wandered off. Also, he's stupid and developmentally stunted. Hollismason posted:I thought Luke Cage and Jessica Jones were the best series of Netflix. All I remember from Jessica Jones is her infinite tolerance for collateral damage as she tries to get her feeling of power back. Like holy poo poo lady, he's a magically unarrestable serial killer on permanent spree. Stop saving him!
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Mar 25, 2017 03:57
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Accretionist posted:All I remember from Jessica Jones is her infinite tolerance for collateral damage as she tries to get her feeling of power back. Like holy poo poo lady, he's a magically unarrestable serial killer on permanent spree. Stop saving him! It was frustrating, but there was a good reason. She needed Kilgrave alive to prove that girl was under his control when she killed her parents.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:00
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Guy Goodbody posted:It was frustrating, but there was a good reason. She needed Kilgrave alive to prove that girl was under his control when she killed her parents. It's also well in keeping of the real world theme of abuse & control, where the abused are regularly not believed and their accusations dismissed.
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Mar 25, 2017 04:21
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Accretionist posted:It feels like a troll. The only way I can make sense of it is Danny is Wimp Lo, wrong training and all. Honestly once I realized that and watched some of his scenes again, it was so much more enjoyable. "I am bleeding, making me the victor!"
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Mar 25, 2017 04:30
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:"I am the Iron Fist." Said at least 7 times per episode. "Bury your father, bury your mother" and then Danny completely loses his poo poo when Gao mentions his father.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:19
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Seriously, Lei Kung The Thunderer is only in like 3 minutes of the whole season. 3 of the more memorable minutes of the whole season. It's like they went out of their way to gently caress some of this poo poo up.
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Mar 25, 2017 05:26
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"Hey we need to discreetly get to China to investigate potential corporate corruption. I know, let's take the corporate jet!"
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Mar 25, 2017 06:26
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Accretionist posted:It feels like a troll. I promise it isn't. I was actually upset it wasn't good, because I was looking forward to it very much.  Why did he borrow Claire's car? He has a jet, and again, a loving ASTON MARTIN, but really needs to borrow Claire's car. And besides the "I'm rich.  " line that fell flat in its face every time he uttered it. Joy witnessed inconceivable horror, her dead father back to life and lied about it for 15 years, etc. They went out of their way to have the actress display sheer terror and mind breaking confusion, but she's just fine with all of it in a day, hangin' with ole Dad. Every interesting opportunity to make the story take an unexpected turn, (Joy snapping, Ward becoming obsessed with serving his father, Howard becoming increasingly evil, showing any of Danny's training) they doubled down on the cliche, and focused on Danny wildly swapping emotions and states of mind, with no real direction for it. "I am the Iron Fist, also I'm rich." 
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Mar 25, 2017 07:20
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:I promise it isn't. I was actually upset it wasn't good, because I was looking forward to it very much. Those things were seized by that point by the DEA. It was the whole reason he was on the run and had to borrow her car. They had most of an episode dealing with this problem.
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Mar 25, 2017 07:23
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Speaking of, there was a lot of poorly thought out stuff on this show, so this was such a minor point it's irrational that it gets to me, but how does the DEA think that Danny, in the two goddamn weeks he's been back from a 15 year absence, turn his corporation into a drug smuggling operation? He spent the first week trying to get the stupid company back, too! I get that Howard supposedly tricked them, maybe there was some bribery involved or something, but Jesus Christ, nobody stopped to wonder about that for a second? Also, they distinctly call them the New York DEA, what the gently caress is that? It's either the NYPD or the federal DEA, there's no local Drug Enforcement Agenct! Just sloppy as hell writing.
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Mar 25, 2017 07:38
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Guy Goodbody posted:Is the point of the Iron Fist to guard the pass or to defeat the Hand? The people of Kun'Lun don't give a poo poo about the outside world, so the threat of the Hand only extends to the magical cities, hence why the Iron Fist protects the gate to heaven and is sworn to defeat the Hand. If anyone is interested, definitely read Immortal Iron Fist, it is the best Iron Fist run in my opinion, and does a amazing job expanding the Iron Fist lore and the lore behind the different magical cities.
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Mar 25, 2017 08:00
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Iron Fist was.. not fun. I'm not excited for Danny Rand in Defenders. I am excited for JJ and Cage calling Danny all sorts of names like, "Kwai Chang Caine" or Johnny Cage and not giving a poo poo about any of his Buddhist sayings, that he spouts constantly. Really, that's something Danny Rand needed in his series. Someone to take the piss out of him. Call him out on poo poo, or point out when he's being dumb or creepy. I liked Coleen, but she wasn't much of a counter balance to his stupid optimism and childish behavior. He took himself too seriously, this show took him too seriously. He and Luke are supposed to start Heroes for Hire, and really, any of Luke's cast would stare at him in disbelief, before laughing at him for five minutes.
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Mar 25, 2017 10:34
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Well, don't they need a rich boy to pay for all their expenses? I can see the other heroes putting up with this annoying brat since he can afford all the nice toys, wouldn't be the first time.
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Mar 25, 2017 12:11
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:The people of Kun'Lun don't give a poo poo about the outside world, so the threat of the Hand only extends to the magical cities, hence why the Iron Fist protects the gate to heaven and is sworn to defeat the Hand. I don't know much about the comics version of the character. But every new thing I hear makes me more frustrated with this show's laziness. "A child billionaire from New York winds up in a magic City of Heaven whose opposition to evil extends only to their own borders. He returns to New York to reclaim his company title and finds that the company likewise cares only about its own profits. Neither facet informs his motivations in any clearly articulated way." This show could actually have made an interesting statement about privilege and social justice. Like, maybe Danny left K'un Lun because defending a wall designed to insulate it from the world is a bullshit use of his abilities, when the Hand is still hurting people elsewhere. Maybe he specifically returned to New York because his multi-billion-dollar company has immense wealth and capacity and doesn't use any of it to make the world better. Instead of characterizing Danny as an aloof surfer kid, they should've painted him as disillusioned by privilege, genuinely opposed to materialism, and with an actual specific focus on fighting the Hand where they are. "I was born rich and essentially lucked into becoming the Iron Fist. But I'm going to use both to make the world better for everyone and not just a few." That's a guy who sounds like he'd get along with Luke Cage or Matt Murdoch.
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Mar 25, 2017 12:16
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Ardent Communist posted:Well, don't they need a rich boy to pay for all their expenses? I can see the other heroes putting up with this annoying brat since he can afford all the nice toys, wouldn't be the first time.
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Mar 25, 2017 14:52
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achillesforever6 posted:Honestly I hope the showrunners for the Defenders can salvage Danny. Can't really do any worse than Buck did. I still think they'll make him a Black Sky for some bullshit reason. That would be funny.
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Mar 25, 2017 15:22
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Thaddius the Large posted:Speaking of, there was a lot of poorly thought out stuff on this show, so this was such a minor point it's irrational that it gets to me, but how does the DEA think that Danny, in the two goddamn weeks he's been back from a 15 year absence, turn his corporation into a drug smuggling operation? He spent the first week trying to get the stupid company back, too! I get that Howard supposedly tricked them, maybe there was some bribery involved or something, but Jesus Christ, nobody stopped to wonder about that for a second? Also, they distinctly call them the New York DEA, what the gently caress is that? It's either the NYPD or the federal DEA, there's no local Drug Enforcement Agenct! Just sloppy as hell writing. Also the corporate board stuff is bullshit. He owns the company and the share holders in the minority fired him....and like, took his shares? The gently caress?
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Mar 25, 2017 15:54
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I'm mostly just mad I thought I was getting a modernized Kwai Chang Caine with magic powers, and instead wound up with a dollar store Kylo Ren "waaah, I'm confused and upset and NOBODY GETS ME".
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Mar 25, 2017 16:21
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Thaddius the Large posted:Speaking of, there was a lot of poorly thought out stuff on this show, so this was such a minor point it's irrational that it gets to me, but how does the DEA think that Danny, in the two goddamn weeks he's been back from a 15 year absence, turn his corporation into a drug smuggling operation? He spent the first week trying to get the stupid company back, too! I get that Howard supposedly tricked them, maybe there was some bribery involved or something, but Jesus Christ, nobody stopped to wonder about that for a second? Also, they distinctly call them the New York DEA, what the gently caress is that? It's either the NYPD or the federal DEA, there's no local Drug Enforcement Agenct! Just sloppy as hell writing. I believe they say it's the New York office of the DEA, which is both a thing and something nobody would ever mention. Just like nobody would say that the Chicago Branch of the FBI is arresting someone. The timeline was definitely a huge problem though. Apparently Harold manipulated Gao's records to make it look like Danny did it, but that poo poo goes back over 15 years. We find out that the Rands were flying to a factory that was already producing drugs for Gao and her enterprise and that she, maybe, had deals going with Danny's mom. The scope and depth of the enterprise make it physically impossible for Danny to set up in the short time he was recognized as Danny Rand. There's no way in hell you set up an sophisticated shipping and distribution network with world wide reach that focuses on distributing a drug that was hitting the streets as you escape from a mental hospital. Which is all ignoring that nobody involved in the show has any goddamn idea how companies work. Theoretically 51% owner Danny Rand could do all that since he can virtually run the company like a dictator, if we disregard the timeline. However the show believes that 51% owner Danny Rand can be power played by his board of directors and the 40%+ owning Meachum siblings can also be played while Danny is in control of his shares and not helping out with the play. Danny, Ward, and Joy should individually be able to tell the board to go gently caress themselves. They sure as poo poo can't be kicked out of the building and offered take it or leave it severance packages that totally removes them from the company. Also who had Danny's 51% of all Rand Inc. stocks for the 15 years he was presumed dead? Was Hogarth holding them in a trust or something? Were Ward and Joy essentially in control of like 90% of all Rand Inc. stock until Danny showed up? Did a bunch of day traders, pension/mutual fund managers, and Rand executives wake up the Monday after Danny is officially recognized and find out that they no longer own Rand Inc. stock, sorry dudes? Did Rand Inc. issue tens of thousands of shares of stock on the spot and give them to Danny so he was majority share holder?
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Mar 25, 2017 16:34
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Yeah, I hate when TV shows try to do this shareholder corporate bullshit because it's always the most poorly thought out unrealistic poo poo. I knew it was gonna be bad as soon as they brought it up in like the second episode, but it ended up being one of the worst I've ever seen.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:38
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Snak posted:Yeah, I hate when TV shows try to do this shareholder corporate bullshit because it's always the most poorly thought out unrealistic poo poo. I knew it was gonna be bad as soon as they brought it up in like the second episode, but it ended up being one of the worst I've ever seen.  Ohhh
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Mar 25, 2017 16:55
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I assumed they're actually not publicly traded so what would happen is the business would buy out the shares from his dad's estate when he passed. Which raises more questions honestly.
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Mar 25, 2017 16:57
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I mean, it doesn't mean you can't use control of a corporation as a plot point, but just stop writing poo poo that makes it sound stupid. You don't have scenes where Claire is fixing someone and is like "They've lost 98% of their blood, if they lose 2 more percent, they'll die!" And then another doctor comes in and says "actually, this patient started out with 150% blood, so they actually have 52%, and you're fired!"
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Mar 25, 2017 16:59
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:2) Danny's reason for coming back -- I also didn't think this was far-fetched, and a little more nuanced than what prior posters have stated -- Danny thought that accepting the mantle of the Iron Fist would fill a void in him from the losses he suffered but it didn't, and felt he needed to come back to do that. Again, personally didn't seem far-fetched. I really have to disagree about the nuance. Yes, Danny said outright that gaining the position didn't fill the void in him, but he also never really gave it a chance. Standing around in an empty pass awaiting an imaginary enemy (since he doesn't actually believe in the Hand) isn't particularly fulfilling, but he leaves the very first day when being the Iron Fist could be relevant. As soon as the way is open, he abandons his post. It's completely irresponsible and selfish, and sadly that sums up Danny Rand as a character. It would be one thing if that were his low point. If he were to recognize his failings and try to grow, that bad decision could be an interesting jumping off point. Instead that's held back as a revelation for late in the series, and he certainly doesn't grow. He repeats the same mistake over and over. When he takes control of Rand, he largely ignores it after making a few naive demands. Both times he has Gao, he has no plan what to do with her and ultimately just lets her go back to the Hand once he has what he wants from her. Bakuto either escapes or his corpse is taken by people with resurrection magic, and Danny reports to Harold that he no longer has to worry about the Hand. I can't think of a single time in the entire series he actually followed through on the consequences and responsibilities of his victories. It's infuriating how childishly short sighted his every decision is.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:46
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Astribulus posted:I really have to disagree about the nuance. Yes, Danny said outright that gaining the position didn't fill the void in him, but he also never really gave it a chance. Standing around in an empty pass awaiting an imaginary enemy (since he doesn't actually believe in the Hand) isn't particularly fulfilling, but he leaves the very first day when being the Iron Fist could be relevant. As soon as the way is open, he abandons his post. It's completely irresponsible and selfish, and sadly that sums up Danny Rand as a character. It might have worked better if they sped the entire thing up to be the first half of a season, and the back half was Danny coming to terms with his negligence causing the downfall of both K'un Lun and Rand Corp, growing as a person and forging his own path or some such; this would also help the massive swaths of nothingness in this show. Instead we just got his slowly bumbling his way through the plot, never showing any growth, and leaving everything in shambles.
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Mar 25, 2017 17:55
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Danny ultimately just comes across like this one ex-coworker of mine who is all Zen Master bullshit on Facebook but a total emotionally-labile spaz in reality. There's no character arc -- he just does whatever will advance the plot at the moment, which usually entails "jumping in over his head without thinking things through."
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Mar 25, 2017 17:56
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It would've been drat easy to make the corporate thing be plausible without resorting to Vincent Adultman levels of business intrigue. "You signed away the rights to all your shares, divided them neatly among us too. So if you could kindly find your way to the elevator..." - "What?! I never did that!" He did. (Arrested Development style flashback to Danny rocking back and forth in his new chair, hiding under the desk and admiring his stickers, happily signing off on stacks of paper.) But I guess that wouldn't have worked with the gritty realism they wanted to stick to. Should've really just gone full-out magical kung fu hobo who takes every obstacle on his path in strides with a chipper attitude. Edit: Hell I think that might've been a role that would've actually been suited for Finn Jones. You could've made the fight scenes work better through 1970's cheese too, instead of hiding his lack of skill with shoddy editing and camerawork. Edit 2: Ok I think I just wanted an entirely different show. Fleve fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 18:08
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Fleve posted:Should've really just gone full-out magical kung fu hobo who takes every obstacle on his path in strides with a chipper attitude. This is exactly what I wanted. A man trained in the ways of kung fu, naive to the ways and pop culture of the modern world. I wanted him to listen to early 2000's hip hop while training, constantly making dumb/funny references to things long since unpopular for a bit of comedy, bringing the Zen and peace to his new corporation, all the while trying to hunt the hand, and come to terms with his brash and irresponsible mistakes. As if this were the real test of the Iron Fist. Coming to terms with the past, taking responsibility for ones actions, and having the fortitude to overcome ones self in order to serve his purpose, then overcome all of that, for the greater good. All the while training to Wu Tang, and kicking rear end barefoot while charmingly bumbling through the corporate world. I pictured Rand Corp becoming a beacon of hope for the disenfranchised guided by Danny's honest, childlike, yet spiritually wise persona. Not whatever the hell awkward mess they tried to illustrate.  Basically like how Luke Cage was done only slightly better. Killer soundtrack, some funny moments, beautiful kung fu 70s throwback fight scenes, and maybe some other Marvel universe foreshadowing or refrences. poo poo, this would have been an awesome opportunity to do another Method Man cameo or something. Kabuki Shipoopi fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Mar 25, 2017 |
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Mar 25, 2017 18:28
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Since the Hand is all but an old fable in K'un-Lun and they just synced back up with our world, Danny Rand as the Iron Fist on a mission would have been much better. You can still have Davos come and yell at Danny for abandoning them, but have it turn out that Danny came out on directives from Yu-Ti or Lei-Kung after they heard about the Avengers incident. It makes total sense for K'un-Lun to want to find out about this new potential threat, and Marvel's headquartering everything in New York would explain why there, in conjunction with Danny being the heir to Rand. Then he finds out about the Hand and focuses on the ancient enemy while also digging up info on "The Incident" and other super powered people. Iron Fist as the defender of the pass who abandoned his duty is just like the worst take on Iron Fist.
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Mar 25, 2017 18:50
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Gyges posted:Which is all ignoring that nobody involved in the show has any goddamn idea how companies work. Theoretically 51% owner Danny Rand could do all that since he can virtually run the company like a dictator, if we disregard the timeline. However the show believes that 51% owner Danny Rand can be power played by his board of directors and the 40%+ owning Meachum siblings can also be played while Danny is in control of his shares and not helping out with the play. Danny, Ward, and Joy should individually be able to tell the board to go gently caress themselves. They sure as poo poo can't be kicked out of the building and offered take it or leave it severance packages that totally removes them from the company. I'm not entirely sure Ward & Joy controlled any stock in the company. At one point it gets mentioned that Harold left them hardly anything in the will, obviously because a) he wasn't dead and b) it was how he could control Ward.
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Mar 25, 2017 19:03
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howe_sam posted:I'm not entirely sure Ward & Joy controlled any stock in the company. At one point it gets mentioned that Harold left them hardly anything in the will, obviously because a) he wasn't dead and b) it was how he could control Ward. Ward said all their inheritance was predicated on them working at Rand. Which is fine, but it still means until they quit they're the heirs of the other founder of Rand inc.
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Mar 25, 2017 19:18
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Just spoke with a friend about Iron Fist. They're halfway through and absolutely love it, saying it's "much better than Luke Cage or Jessica Jones!" So... Gonna need a new friend now.
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Mar 25, 2017 19:28
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achillesforever6 posted:I just don't know why especially in the wake of 2016, that people think that the masses care about the plight of a rich white man getting his wealth ba A convenient real-world parallel somehow excuses bad writing?
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Mar 25, 2017 20:04
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All along, it was Danny Rand's plan to build a wall around K'un-Lun, and make Earth Realm pay for it.
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Mar 25, 2017 20:05
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HIJK posted:A convenient real-world parallel somehow excuses bad writing?
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Mar 25, 2017 20:24
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Fleve posted:It would've been drat easy to make the corporate thing be plausible without resorting to Vincent Adultman levels of business intrigue. I don't know poo poo about business law, but as a layman, I'd be fine with "We filed an injunction against you firing the board due to your well-established mental incompetence." Coming back from the dead to owning 51% of the company is still a mystery to me, though.
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Mar 25, 2017 21:45
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The only proof of his identity was a homemade pot with his fingerprint on. That he presented himself. And so could have made that day.
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Mar 25, 2017 22:01
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mossyfisk posted:The only proof of his identity was a homemade pot with his fingerprint on. That he presented himself. And so could have made that day. presumably it was child size fingerprints. He didn't have adult hands when he was ten
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Mar 25, 2017 22:16
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