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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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Trump is obviously significantly worse than Obama because his administration has caused undocumented women to stop reporting rapes in LA. Whitewashing that by trying to blame Obama is loving gross.
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Mar 26, 2017 03:33
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Um, obama was well-liked
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Mar 26, 2017 03:33
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JeffersonClay posted:Trump is obviously significantly worse than Obama because his administration has caused undocumented women to stop reporting rapes in LA. Whitewashing that by trying to blame Obama is loving gross. 
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Mar 26, 2017 04:15
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JeffersonClay posted:Trump is obviously significantly worse than Obama because his administration has caused undocumented women to stop reporting rapes in LA. Whitewashing that by trying to blame Obama is loving gross. You're so loving slimy man. You're the one who brought up rape victims to support your terrible argument to begin with. No mention of Obama detention centers because you're a partisan hack.
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Mar 26, 2017 05:15
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Undocumented Latinas have stopped reporting rapes in LA due to Trump and I'm totally exploiting that to make a slimy dishonest argument that they would have been better off with a democrat as president. gently caress your ignorant machismo.
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Mar 26, 2017 05:59
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Obama was loving terrible and sucked in the vast majority of issues. Obama sucked on some things, but this is going too far. He was as good as any president with an insanely nihilistic Republican Congress could be on some incredibly important topics. Nukes and environment/climate change are literally the most important issues in the world, and he was good on them.
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Mar 26, 2017 06:15
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obama was regular terrible and sucked in a slim majority of issues
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Mar 26, 2017 06:16
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Obama's biggest mistake was thinking the republicans would ever work in good faith with him. That type of centrism--compromise as a value itself--is real dumb. Smart centrism is the type that recognizes that we can't win on all our issues all the time, and we need to appeal to enough of the electorate to enact our agenda. I'd put "drop gun control" into that category, although like every other issue we can argue about those expectations and values.
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Mar 26, 2017 06:29
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JeffersonClay posted:Undocumented Latinas have stopped reporting rapes in LA due to Trump and I'm totally exploiting that to make a slimy dishonest argument that they would have been better off with a democrat as president. gently caress your ignorant machismo. do you honestly think this wasn't also an issue under other presidencies with the major difference being scale? JeffersonClay posted:Obama's biggest mistake was thinking the republicans would ever work in good faith with him. That type of centrism--compromise as a value itself--is real dumb. Smart centrism is the type that recognizes that we can't win on all our issues all the time, and we need to appeal to enough of the electorate to enact our agenda. I'd put "drop gun control" into that category, although like every other issue we can argue about those expectations and values. you're describing tactics not ideology, replace centrism with politics and the argument is exactly the same
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Mar 26, 2017 06:38
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JeffersonClay posted:gently caress your ignorant machismo. What would my raza do without JC and the Dems to save us?  Forget the fact that centrist hackery gave them NAFTA and allowed things like this: young maquiladora female workers with no protections getting raped and murdered. Forget the fact that Dems have allowed the drug wars to continue. Forget the fact that Obama allowed US arms to fall in the hands of the cartels. Arms which were used to terrorize innocent Mexican women and children. gently caress off with your white savior bullshit gringo.
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Mar 26, 2017 06:55
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JeffersonClay posted:Obama's biggest mistake was thinking the republicans would ever work in good faith with him. That type of centrism--compromise as a value itself--is real dumb. Smart centrism is the type that recognizes that we can't win on all our issues all the time, and we need to appeal to enough of the electorate to enact our agenda. I'd put "drop gun control" into that category, although like every other issue we can argue about those expectations and values. Can I ask where you live? I fundamentally agree with the theory of the sort of compromise you are looking to make. In my move naive days, I made similar suggestions. However in NYC, Oakland and black Indianapolis gun control is a red meat issue. Like abortion, nobody expects anybody to really go to bat but it certainly *feels good* and *messages well*. In NYC and the Bay Area, the "messaging well" is particularly relevant for the donor population and if my experience in Indianapolis can be extrapolated to the national scene, standing firm on the "important but undeliverable" issues (shades of abortion for the rapid right) seems good "easy compromise" material. If we give up gun control and, frankly, I'm fine with giving up gun control from a cool strategic perspective, what ought we give it up for and how do you propose we structure this narrative? Threading the needle between the interests of the donor class and the minority classes is something the Dems haven't done a good job with. Abandoning an issue where they are in agreement, unless done very carefully, seems more likely to shatter a (if not the) core alliance keeping the Dems politically relevant at all.
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Mar 26, 2017 07:17
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Gun control should be given up for universal health care, and break up the banks.
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Mar 26, 2017 07:59
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Crowsbeak posted:Gun control should be given up for universal health care, and break up the banks. That would offend the donor class of the Dems. DO U EVEN MARXIST BRO? Have you heard of the Lumpenproles?
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Mar 26, 2017 08:05
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Shbobdb posted:That would offend the donor class of the Dems. I should mention that the goal is to silence said donars.
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Mar 26, 2017 08:09
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Crowsbeak posted:Thesis: I should mention that the goal is to silence said donars. Antithesis: Edited for proper dialectics. Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 08:15
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Crowsbeak posted:Gun control should be given up for universal health care, and break up the banks. You're living in a dream world if you think giving up gun control will make the Republicans budge on anything.
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Mar 26, 2017 10:24
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Majorian posted:You're living in a dream world if you think giving up gun control will make the Republicans budge on anything. Well its not about so much appealing to Republicans, as its is recognizing that Gun control is mainly used by the owners of capital to disarm the disadvantaged.
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Mar 26, 2017 11:05
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https://twitter.com/BenjaminPDixon/status/845627811327098881
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Mar 26, 2017 11:47
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 Wow. She even called herself the CEO of the city. Way to make yourself seem like a progressive leader.
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Mar 26, 2017 12:10
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Awesome 👏
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Mar 26, 2017 14:14
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She ran on a $15/hr platform smdh
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Mar 26, 2017 14:45
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JeffersonClay posted:Trump is obviously significantly worse than Obama because his administration has caused undocumented women to stop reporting rapes in LA. Whitewashing that by trying to blame Obama is loving gross. To civilized right wingers like JC here, the problem isnt Trumps policies, its that he does them in a loud and vulgar way that spooks people. Doing evil is fine so long as you do it quietly
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Mar 26, 2017 15:22
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GlyphGryph posted:To civilized right wingers like JC here, the problem isnt Trumps policies, its that he does them in a loud and vulgar way that spooks people. Doing evil is fine so long as you do it quietly well duh, that's the problem. Hillary and Obama may have voted for giant fences to keep illegals out and deported massive numbers of immigrants, but they did it in a non-racist way. Therefore making it ok. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't keep our country safe?? /s
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Mar 26, 2017 15:30
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:She ran on a $15/hr platform smdh
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Mar 26, 2017 15:50
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https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/846054140304392192
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Mar 26, 2017 19:21
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GlyphGryph posted:To civilized right wingers like JC here, the problem isnt Trumps policies, its that he does them in a loud and vulgar way that spooks people. Doing evil is fine so long as you do it quietly The policies are substantively different, and you can tell because undocumented women were significantly more likely to report violence to the police under Obama than Trump. Erasing that by saying they're both equally evil is intensely stupid and not just a little bit sexist. Let's take your argument to its logical conclusion. You think any immigration policy that restricts a nonzero number of undocumented immigrants from entering and remaining in the country with barriers on the border and deportations is immoral and evil. You think there's no important moral difference between two immigration policies with those features, regardless of the substantive impact of those policies on the undocumented population currently residing here. So you're claiming the only moral immigration policy is one that allows for unrestricted immigration from every country for any reason. That's not a policy we can plausibly sell to the electorate, particularly working class rust belt voters.
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Mar 26, 2017 19:27
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Obama was literally splitting up families and his administration argued that TODDLERS could defend themselves in court for fucks sake! Like yes Trump is more evil, but what the Democrats have been doing has been pretty evil itself and lesser of two evils-ism doesn't loving work with human rights abuse. By the very fact that immigration and refugee advocates didn't have faith in Clinton or the Democrats. You can scream Trump is the worst all you want and out might be the only thing you aren't wrong about, but when the come back to you is the Democrats also arguably violated human rights and all you can do is keep saying how much worse Trump is. Well you've lost because it turns out people don't really care if the alternative to chaotic evil is lawful evil.
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Mar 26, 2017 19:44
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*pragmatically look at the obviously correct choice?
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Mar 26, 2017 19:48
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JeffersonClay posted:The policies are substantively different, and you can tell because undocumented women were significantly more likely to report violence to the police under Obama than Trump. Erasing that by saying they're both equally evil is intensely stupid and not just a little bit sexist. Oh my goodness. It's not sexist to correctly point out that obama deported more people than republican presidents before him. Grow the gently caress up. Democrats are the GOP-lite party. Just accept it.
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Mar 26, 2017 19:50
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we can't. hillary said it won't happen. that the US will never ever have single payer she wasn't lying was she? does it take republicans getting elected for the dems to take their jobs even the slightest bit seriously?
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Mar 26, 2017 19:53
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JeffersonClay posted:The policies are substantively different, and you can tell because undocumented women were significantly more likely to report violence to the police under Obama than Trump. Erasing that by saying they're both equally evil is intensely stupid and not just a little bit sexist. quote:You think any immigration policy that restricts a nonzero number of undocumented immigrants from entering and remaining in the country with barriers on the border and deportations is immoral and evil. You think there's no important moral difference between two immigration policies with those features, regardless of the substantive impact of those policies on the undocumented population currently residing here. So you're claiming the only moral immigration policy is one that allows for unrestricted immigration from every country for any reason. That's not a policy we can plausibly sell to the electorate, particularly working class rust belt voters. ...no, for some odd reason his defense of proclaiming toddlers fully cognizant of their crimes against the democratic party, blessed and eternal be its reign is "I'm too scared to run any other ideas that past rust belt whites." What a glorious commitment to pluralism.
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Mar 26, 2017 19:55
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Oh my goodness. It's not sexist to correctly point out that obama deported more people than republican presidents before him. You think any immigration policy that includes deportations and a border barrier is GOP-lite, and we're never going to be able to sell unrestricted immigration from everywhere to the electorate.
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Mar 26, 2017 19:58
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I do give him credit for stones, though. Saying what the DNC needs to offer to minorities is more and more vicious plans of deportation, putting walls up across the border in exchange for the policies he REALLY wants to see implemented, all while simultaneously claiming to be the True Defender of the Disenfranchised? That's a spicy take right there!
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Mar 26, 2017 19:59
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JeffersonClay posted:You think any immigration policy that includes deportations and a border barrier is GOP-lite, and we're never going to be able to sell unrestricted immigration from everywhere to the electorate. Yes? What the gently caress? A border wall that serves no purpose than to kill families that can't afford to be smuggled by coyotes? Deporting innocent refugees for the crime of crossing the border? Are you insane??
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Mar 26, 2017 20:00
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JeffersonClay posted:You think any immigration policy that includes deportations and a border barrier is GOP-lite, and we're never going to be able to sell unrestricted immigration from everywhere to the electorate. so lets see thats gun control, minimum wage increases, and immigrates you're willing to give up on for your glorious centrism, how much longer until we uncover your total lack of principles
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Mar 26, 2017 20:02
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You're decending deep into dumb leftist territory there, friend. Obama's immigration policy was not perfect. It was significantly better than any immigration policy we could expect from a republican. There are marginal improvements we could make to his policies, but "no border, no deportation, unlimited immigration" is not a plausible position for democrats to advocate.
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Mar 26, 2017 20:04
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Yes? What the gently caress? A border wall that serves no purpose than to kill families that can't afford to be smuggled by coyotes? Deporting innocent refugees for the crime of crossing the border? Are you insane?? Seriously, JeffersonClay believes the secret to getting democrats back in power is watering down the empty platitudes to the disenfranchised, all in the hopes of picking up the racist vote. Hillary 2020: Build The Wall, But Maybe Five Feet Shorter Than Trump's Version, And Some Of The Guards With Shoot-To-Kill Orders Patrolling It Will Be Women.
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Mar 26, 2017 20:06
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You should give up gun control because its a complete loser of an issue and really its just a smoke screen for Democrats to avoid having to address income inequality which hits minorities like a sack of hammers.
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Mar 26, 2017 20:08
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JeffersonClay posted:You're decending deep into dumb leftist territory there, friend. but it was worse than previous democrats. what's wrong on calling obama out on that?
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Mar 26, 2017 20:08
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JeffersonClay posted:You're decending deep into dumb leftist territory there, friend. What? He was significantly worse than his republican predecessors! No one is saying "no border and no deportations", but Hillary demonizing refugees and boasting about voting for a wall, coupled with Obama's terrible record on deportation, aren't better than what republicans have done. Trump is worse, but man, wouldn't it be fantastic to have democrats just for once not be the GOP-lite?
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Mar 26, 2017 20:12
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