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Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Halloween Jack posted:

In other words, since you're in the "lucky" position of having found a hardcopy dirt cheap, you should review it for F&F. If I'd managed to come into a cheap copy of Metabarons you betta belieb I'd be F&Fing that baby.

Well, there was a time a few years back where they were literally just doing warehouse clearance on Amazon to clear it out of there. There are several hurdles with reviewing it as an F&F:
  • Describing its concepts in a coherent way.
  • Describing its concepts in an interesting way.
  • Finding the time to review about 400 pages of material that sure as hell feels like 800.
  • Not losing my loving mind.
Right now I have my hands full with just keeping up with keeping Rifts reviews going and possible other F&F stuff that may fall onto my plate soon. Also, there's already a review.

My "favorite" part so far is when wizards discover that the spirit realm has a place that has always existed where information can be stored. Why?

:iiam:

You see, Eoris doesn't have computers, so they use this information realm to, you guessed it, do everything the internet does. Even currency transfers! See, an early civilization invented coins that could be converted into energy and transmitted through this amazingly convenient information realm. How?

:iiam:

So we have a fantasy society that also has a magic internet and magic paypal which you can use it to transmit your thought-mails to other people with some basic braining. Remember, nobody invented this! It just exists. Because you wouldn't want to have your magic fantasy world without the comfort of getting to send funny jokes to all your friends via the thought-realm.

:wtc:

Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Mar 26, 2017

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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
literally anything can run in fate core, it's like answering fudge when someone asks what system to use

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Cease to Hope posted:

literally anything can run in fate core, it's like answering fudge when someone asks what system to use

Can't do horror.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Covok posted:

Can't do horror.

this is a devastating review of breakfast cult

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
You can do horror in FATE, it just requires disempowering characters a decent amount and sharpening up those consequences. Of course, then a lot of FATE's feel is lost and it becomes more of a basic resolution system with funny dice. I think in retrospect Breakfast Cult needed to do some of that - even with the cosmic horrors' copious stunt bonuses, I find it's too easy for PCs to cobble up big dice results between stunts and fate chips unless a GM just says "no", and that's not very much fun.

Ettin
Oct 2, 2010

Cease to Hope posted:

this is a devastating review of breakfast cult

:argh:

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
I just looked at the preview of Eoris on DTRPG and wow, I'm totally pulling this out the next time somebody calls Nobilis incomprehensible metaphysical jibberish.

Simian_Prime
Nov 6, 2011

When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.
I remember years ago the guys at my FLGS put a single copy of Eoris in stock and they, a bunch of other shoppers, and I were just staring at this... thing, wondering just... why?

One guy theorized that it was made by a nerd who ended up with a large inheritance and splurged it all on his dream RPG project.

We were all amused by the fact that it had stat adjustments for Age categories up to and including "Infant". Was there some gamer out there who wanted to live his fantasy of role playing a newborn baby?

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.
We're also getting an Evil Hat-produced Horror-FATE thing at some point (FATE of Cthulhu, which is in alpha playtest according to their project status page) which should presumably provide more options there.

Ettin
Oct 2, 2010
There's also the Fate Horror Toolkit, though that one's still in development IIRC. Looking at the author lineup I'm pretty pumped :f5:

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Simian_Prime posted:

One guy theorized that it was made by a nerd who ended up with a large inheritance and splurged it all on his dream RPG project.
That's always been my assumption about how these heartbreakers get funded (alternatively: insurance settlement, lottery payout).

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.
There was that one guy who got a second mortgage on his house and cashed in all of his savings to pay for his D&D clone (but with digital tools!)

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually
Midlife crisis sounds like another possibility. Cash out 401(k), print 1000 copies of REALMCORE FANTASY IMAGINARIUM that you've been working on since middle school, become a world-famous game designer. Easy as 1-2-3!

Yawgmoth
Sep 10, 2003

This post is cursed!

Simian_Prime posted:

We were all amused by the fact that it had stat adjustments for Age categories up to and including "Infant". Was there some gamer out there who wanted to live his fantasy of role playing a newborn baby?
There are a substantial number of people out there who feel the need to have every single loving thing in the universe statted out and are greatly offended by the idea of homebrew. These are people I could join a game and say "hey I made this, could I try playing it" and they'd screech and bellow about homebrew, but if I saved it to pdf and put it up for sale on DTRPG for $1 and said "hey I got this and would like to play it" they'd be all for it. So I assume that stats for babies and whatnot are for those people, who desperately need every living thing in the orc village to have a set of stats but cannot fathom the concept of "the babies don't need stats you freak" and also hate the idea of on-the-fly giving babies a stack of 1s or whatever.

potatocubed
Jul 26, 2012

*rathian noises*

Simian_Prime posted:

We were all amused by the fact that it had stat adjustments for Age categories up to and including "Infant". Was there some gamer out there who wanted to live his fantasy of role playing a newborn baby?

You can play hypercompetent six-year-olds in Burning Wheel.

Also, this is the only circumstance under which I'd play Burning Wheel again.

Flavivirus
Dec 14, 2011

The next stage of evolution.

potatocubed posted:

You can play hypercompetent six-year-olds in Burning Wheel.

Also, this is the only circumstance under which I'd play Burning Wheel again.

I still sorta want to play Burning Wheel Babies one of these days.

LatwPIAT
Jun 6, 2011

On the whole, I think it's a good thing that the Internet and places like DriveThruRPG have lowered the financial barrier to making RPGs. Sure, it means we're awash in a flood of badly written games, but it also means that fewer people ruin themselves financially on print runs of badly written games.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Nuns with Guns posted:

There was that one guy who got a second mortgage on his house and cashed in all of his savings to pay for his D&D clone (but with digital tools!)
This is also the financial planning that gave us D6 Open.

Noir is the only game I know for sure was produced by a trust fund baby with a pile of trust fund money. One of the writers had some tales to tell about the company owner throwing parties at GenCon for special guests, with cigars and tiger prawns and ice sculptures, while stiffing the people who actually made the game.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Mar 26, 2017

P.d0t
Dec 27, 2007
I released my finger from the trigger, and then it was over...
Latest round of changes to The Next Project are now up on the blog.

Mostly tweaks to character classes towards allowing more customization; some (mandatory) Subclasses were changed to (optional) Archetypes, and some classes with Archetypes have been adjusted to work smoother without having to pick one.

Also, some Concentration abilities have been split off into their own keyword (Forms), just to allow some stuff to stack that otherwise wouldn't. Forms lean more toward in-combat types of customization, whereas Concentration powers tend to be more in the vein of class-defining abilities. Because of this (plus a few other considerations), the character customization section in the core rules has been expanded a bit.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Rand Brittain posted:

I just looked at the preview of Eoris on DTRPG and wow, I'm totally pulling this out the next time somebody calls Nobilis incomprehensible metaphysical jibberish.

Nobilis 2e was 100% comprehensible if you read the book straight through. 3e maybe not so much considering the game includes neither a sample of play nor a sample of actual character generation (it has lifepath generation, but no actual stats, which seems insane).

If you want actual nigh-incomprehensibility you can stick with Jenna Moran and pick up Wisher, Theurgist, Fatalist & Weaver of Their Fates, also known as WTF, or sometimes by the full initials of WTF&WTF.

Kestral
Nov 24, 2000

Forum Veteran

potatocubed posted:

You can play hypercompetent six-year-olds in Burning Wheel.

Also, this is the only circumstance under which I'd play Burning Wheel again.

Child Prodigy builds in Burning Wheel are surprisingly good (at one specific thing) and fun, not least because starting out essentially at zero other than your one trick, but having incredibly fast advancement, makes you engage hard with the advancement mechanics that are the core of Burning Wheel. Several of my players have become mildly obsessed with Prodigy builds, especially when combined with Gifted. All of which is to say, Burning Prodigy Orphanage / War Refugees would be a really good game.

ShitheadDeluxe
May 14, 2007
Why does wargaming terrain have to be so expensive? I'd be better off shopping for a 3d printer in the long run.

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

ShitheadDeluxe posted:

Why does wargaming terrain have to be so expensive? I'd be better off shopping for a 3d printer in the long run.

Does it need to be 3d? 2D stuff isn't so bad.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

ShitheadDeluxe posted:

Why does wargaming terrain have to be so expensive? I'd be better off shopping for a 3d printer in the long run.

Depending on the scale you're going for you could probably get a lot of mileage out of Model Train terrain stuff

ShitheadDeluxe
May 14, 2007

drrockso20 posted:

Depending on the scale you're going for you could probably get a lot of mileage out of Model Train terrain stuff

What's 28mm in model train scale? O?

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

ShitheadDeluxe posted:

What's 28mm in model train scale? O?

This conversation might be useful to you: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=237077

I know nothing about it myself, though.

ShitheadDeluxe
May 14, 2007

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

This conversation might be useful to you: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=237077

I know nothing about it myself, though.

Thanks!

Gizmoduck_5000
Oct 6, 2013

Your superior intellect is no match for our primitive weapons!

Evil Mastermind posted:

Saying that reminds me of the writers of Workaholics have a long list of "joke lines" they're not letting themselves use anymore. poo poo like "Wait for it..." or "too soon?"; things that "have the shape of jokes, but aren't actually jokes".

Ooh...shots fired!

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Bad Seafood posted:

Okay, I wanna know how far down this rabbit hole goes.

Gonna be up for most of the night anyway hammering out this thing I'm working on. Should be good for a break and some laughs.

This is a pretty good place to start: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/issues/issue_271/8109-Red-Box-Renaissance

quote:

"If you look at the Fighter and the way he works in D&D Essentials, we removed the Daily powers to get more of a sense that 'fighters and wizards should look really different,' because that's how D&D originally approached it," Mearls said. "I remember playing the Wizard way back in Basic D&D, where you had one spell and you had four hit points, if you were lucky, and you needed the Fighter to protect you. That's a much different playing experience than when you are playing the Fighter, where you're in the front line, you're taking all the risks, you're charging into combat. The game you played was different. The way I like to design things - especially in RPGs - is all about that feeling, that when you approach the game, you're approaching it the way your character would. You're thinking like a Fighter; you're thinking like a Wizard."

These sentiments were all the more noteworthy when contrasted with the stated design philosophy of another of Mearls' predecessors, Rob Heinsoo, who had explicitly praised the sameness of all of 4th Edition's classes: "The point of bringing in powers for every character class was to make the game fun for everyone most of the time." Heinsoo had also gone out of his way to slam design efforts built around simulating a fantasy world, saying that it "might make sense if you're simulating a specific type of fantasy world ... but it doesn't make any sense for new players who want to have fun."

So if Heinsoo just wanted to create a fun game, what did Mearls want to create? And was he really going against the entire design ethos behind 4th Edition? Justin Alexander elegantly expresses many players' problems with 4E in an essay titled "Dissociated Mechanics." Alexander damned the powers mechanics and marking system in 4E because they were not simulating anything that happened in the game world. For example, why could a Rogue only pull off his fancy Daily power once per day? The only answer was because those were the rules of the game, not because that was how combat ought or should work in the fantasy setting. We asked Mearls if he or anyone else at Wizards had read Alexander's essay or even considered how 4E was fundamentally disassociated from the world it ostensibly simulated.

"It's funny you brought that up because I'd read that blog entry. It's definitely something I've thought of," Mearls said. "If you're an experienced player and if you're willing to give some allowances to how the game works versus how you think reality should work, you're probably in a narrative mode. If you're more into the narrative side of gaming, you're used to taking mechanics and interpreting them to say 'this is what just happened.'"

But Mearls doesn't believe that most D&D players want to play that way. "I almost think narrative games are a different hobby, where it really is group world building or literal group storytelling. In a more traditional roleplaying game like D&D, you build it as you go and it's almost like a game of football or some sport where the action arises as you go."

quote:

"If you are a disgruntled D&D fan, there's nothing I can say to you that undoes whatever happened two years ago or a year ago that made you disgruntled - but what I can do, what's within my power, is that going forward, I can make products, I can design game material, I can listen to what you're saying, and I can do what I can do with design to make you happy again; to get back to that core of what makes D&D, D&D; to what made people fall in love with it the first time, whether it was the Red Box in '83, the original three booklets back in '74 or '75 or even 3rd Edition in 2004, whenever that happened, to get back to what drew you into D&D in the first place and give that back to you.

"If you're unhappy with 4th Edition, I say take a look at Essentials and see where we're moving."

Mearls pretty much admits that the Essentials line was a "rollback" of the design ethos of 4th Edition in response to grognard criticisms of the game, and that he tried to make it more like 3rd Edition in order to satisfy them.

The end result was that people who already liked 4E as it was thought that the move was poo poo, people who already disliked 4E (for irrational reasons or otherwise) did not make the jump either because they already had Pathfinder (or 3e) to play with, and all parties involved were soured on the idea of a "4.5" that tried to reboot 4E when they already experienced that kind of product-line-damaging move with 3.5e.

And then The Escapist published this thing: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/writersroom/8115-Complete-Mike-Mearls-D-D-4th-Edition-Essentials-Interview wherein it's the full interview with Mearls because Macris got all defensive about how he supposedly tried to steer the interview to make Mearls look that bad or something.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

I still wonder if Wizards paid off the Escapist to act as a mouthpiece for Mearls under the guise of independent journalism, or if they just found a news outlet where they could be sure writers would side with him.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

My Lovely Horse posted:

I still wonder if Wizards paid off the Escapist to act as a mouthpiece for Mearls under the guise of independent journalism, or if they just found a news outlet where they could be sure writers would side with him.

It's altogether likely that Mearls knew that Macris would let him have the kind of interview he wanted, because he certainly couldn't have someone fight for 4e's Core design when Mearls wanted to push Essentials as a "come back to us, Pathfinder people!" moment. I mean, Macris would later go on to do an OSR game, so birds of a feather and all that.

Which makes it even more funny that they had to do that follow-up "full real interview" article when the reaction was completely the opposite of they hoped it would be. No, the Escapists weren't editorializing Mearls's response to drive an agenda, but posting the full transcript doesn't change how bad it sounds, because Mearls honestly believed in wanting to roll back 4E to "feel" more like "real" D&D!

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



Halloween Jack posted:

What I know of Eoris is that it consists of a set of expensive books that are hard to find, and even the PDFs will run you 20bux as a bundle. It's obscure, and most people who have heard of it were probably scared off by the character sheet which looks like Anima: Beyond Fantasy loving exploded.

In other words, since you're in the "lucky" position of having found a hardcopy dirt cheap, you should review it for F&F. If I'd managed to come into a cheap copy of Metabarons you betta belieb I'd be F&Fing that baby.
Funny thing Eoris was 10 bucks on Amazon for a while, until they finally ran out of stock.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

gradenko_2000 posted:

This is a pretty good place to start: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/issues/issue_271/8109-Red-Box-Renaissance



Mearls pretty much admits that the Essentials line was a "rollback" of the design ethos of 4th Edition in response to grognard criticisms of the game, and that he tried to make it more like 3rd Edition in order to satisfy them.

The end result was that people who already liked 4E as it was thought that the move was poo poo, people who already disliked 4E (for irrational reasons or otherwise) did not make the jump either because they already had Pathfinder (or 3e) to play with, and all parties involved were soured on the idea of a "4.5" that tried to reboot 4E when they already experienced that kind of product-line-damaging move with 3.5e.

And then The Escapist published this thing: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/writersroom/8115-Complete-Mike-Mearls-D-D-4th-Edition-Essentials-Interview wherein it's the full interview with Mearls because Macris got all defensive about how he supposedly tried to steer the interview to make Mearls look that bad or something.

It really is a shame because the Essentials line has some of the best looking books that D&D has ever had(and the size format is much better than the one it usually uses)

That Old Tree
Jun 24, 2012

nah


quote:

" I almost think narrative games are a different hobby, where it really is group world building or literal group storytelling. In a more traditional roleplaying game like D&D, you build it as you go and it's almost like a game of football or some sport where the action arises as you go."

This and statements like it have always been the ones that can manage to piss me off, because that poo poo doesn't actually mean anything. That's how every RPG already works. And it's not like you can't come up with a stronger point of distinction. He just doesn't. It's insultingly dumb.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

gradenko_2000 posted:

It's altogether likely that Mearls knew that Macris would let him have the kind of interview he wanted, because he certainly couldn't have someone fight for 4e's Core design when Mearls wanted to push Essentials as a "come back to us, Pathfinder people!" moment. I mean, Macris would later go on to do an OSR game, so birds of a feather and all that.

This is spot on. I mean, The Escapist has all the journalistic integrity of a supermarket tabloid being read by a compulsive liar, and Macris himself was found to be giving positive coverage to the OSR game he wrote without disclosing that fact. It didn't take payola for Mearls to find a sympathetic ear without a hint of objectivity there.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.
Marcis is also alt-right leaning, if not explicitly identifying as such, and supportive of gamergate. He promotes and financially supports James Desborough, too.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

Nuns with Guns posted:

Marcis is also alt-right leaning, if not explicitly identifying as such, and supportive of gamergate. He promotes and financially supports James Desborough, too.

he runs (or ran?) a largely unsuccessful MRA-heavy men's advice and culture site alongside escapist, and straight up just hired gamergate people to write for that site and escapist

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

oh yes, the other thing that made the Escapist stand out, I remember.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Cease to Hope posted:

he runs (or ran?) a largely unsuccessful MRA-heavy men's advice and culture site alongside escapist, and straight up just hired gamergate people to write for that site and escapist

haha, yep. He also thinks social marxism is real, so I wouldn't be shocked if he bought into the conspiracy theory that 4e was an attempt by the minorities to undermine traditional gaming.

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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Cease to Hope posted:

he runs (or ran?) a largely unsuccessful MRA-heavy men's advice and culture site alongside escapist, and straight up just hired gamergate people to write for that site and escapist

One of his hires was the RPGPundit, even. And Mearls has been friends with all of them the whole time.

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