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Rincewinds posted:Look at this loving elf lover. That's not an ogre woman. That's a Maneater - ogre mercenaries who go out in the wider world and most adopt the ways and appearance of whoever struck them as the most badass. That particular ogre saw a peasant woman beating the hell out of a dude with her rolling pin and decided that was the coolest thing ever he wants to be that.
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Mar 26, 2017 12:51
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Cythereal posted:That's not an ogre woman. That's a Maneater - ogre mercenaries who go out in the wider world and most adopt the ways and appearance of whoever struck them as the most badass. That particular ogre saw a peasant woman beating the hell out of a dude with her rolling pin and decided that was the coolest thing ever he wants to be that. Don't kink shame maneaters, elflover.
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Mar 26, 2017 12:54
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help we are trapped in a recursive conversation
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Mar 26, 2017 12:55
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For the eventual ogres, I'm assuming Greasus Goldtoothfor the faction leader. Who would be the other lords though? I guess Skragg the Slaughterer for a melee/caster hybrid?
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Mar 26, 2017 13:33
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Nash posted:For the eventual ogres, I'm assuming Greasus Goldtoothfor the faction leader. Who would be the other lords though? I guess Skragg the Slaughterer for a melee/caster hybrid? 90% sure that's correct. Maybe Golfag for the third. Golfag was iirc the first named ogre character, he was not originally an Ogre Kingdoms character but a Dogs of War one, leading a regiment of ogre mercs. He transitioned into being a maneater-themed hero.
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Mar 26, 2017 14:09
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Tiler Kiwi posted:help we are trapped in a recursive conversation It'd be cool to have Estalia as a playable faction in the new ẻ̶̪̪͝x̸̦̯̋̈́p̸͍̍ă̸̭̽n̸͇̅s̴̫̄i̸̭͝o̸͍͕͠ ḿ̷̢̫̑a̴͖͎͌g̶̫͔̿͝í̴̠̚c̸͎̕-̴̺̬͆c̸͎̄ä̷͖́͛r̴̹̓p̶͚̄͐e̴̗̱͊̿t̷̖̗́͂ṣ̶͗ of Araby and dragon-emperors ō̶͖f̶̗̤͂͒ ̷̰͙̏C̴̥̀̈ą̸̐̈t̵͕̦̂h̸͖̳̑͠a̵̮͌̃ỵ̵̜̌̃ p̸̧͚̈́e̸̫̅ǫ̷͆̑p̶̻̰̈l̵̓ͅe̸̯̲̓́ don't get British humour, they make fun of è̴̤v̸̛͇̏e̶͕̐r̵̼̍̐ÿ̴̠́̂ȏ̵̗͚n̵͈̽ė̴̢̛
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Mar 26, 2017 14:12
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Rincewinds posted:Don't kink shame maneaters, elflover. did you read the post and grossly misinterpret it, or did you just desperately want to shoehorn a kinkshaming joke in for no apparent reason
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Mar 26, 2017 15:40
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Baron Porkface posted:I wonder if this game would be more fun if they had the regular-elite-special restrictions form tabletop I also wonder this. Limits per stack would be ideal, but don't think there's any precedent for that ingame to mod off of.
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Mar 26, 2017 15:45
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Help me, I feel like I'm trapped in some sort of Groundhog Day for nerds.
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Mar 26, 2017 16:49
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so, about those dlc prices
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Mar 26, 2017 16:52
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Okay here's something new: what the hell what the downside of lizardmen be? From what I understand, they have great magic, great troops, decent shooting, awesome monsters, and some vicious cavalry.it doesn't sound like there's any downsides for people to exploit. It'll be hell for multiplayer matches, as far as I can tell.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:00
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Night10194 posted:There's also a further exceedingly unsubtle and incredibly racist Mongol stand in with the Hung chaos raiders, known for being filthy, short, lying a lot, having narrow eyes, and stealing constantly. Those are Finns. Those are all distinctly Finnish features.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:03
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did you know, there was an ork in 40k, that when he went into a warp portal and ended up in the past, decided to kill his past self so he could have two of his favorite gun?? just an old classic here for you boys
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Mar 26, 2017 17:05
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Triskelli posted:Okay here's something new: what the hell what the downside of lizardmen be? From what I understand, they have great magic, great troops, decent shooting, awesome monsters, and some vicious cavalry.it doesn't sound like there's any downsides for people to exploit. It'll be hell for multiplayer matches, as far as I can tell. Based on tabletop: they are relatively slow and their ranged capability is limited
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Mar 26, 2017 17:08
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Triskelli posted:Okay here's something new: what the hell what the downside of lizardmen be? From what I understand, they have great magic, great troops, decent shooting, awesome monsters, and some vicious cavalry.it doesn't sound like there's any downsides for people to exploit. It'll be hell for multiplayer matches, as far as I can tell. They're slow as hell on the tabletop, at least. Well, at least the Saurus are. And the Skinks are basically goblins physically if anything catches them.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:08
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Triskelli posted:Okay here's something new: what the hell what the downside of lizardmen be? From what I understand, they have great magic, great troops, decent shooting, awesome monsters, and some vicious cavalry.it doesn't sound like there's any downsides for people to exploit. It'll be hell for multiplayer matches, as far as I can tell. Their ranged options actually aren't great. Blowguns are good in tabletop but in TWW poison isn't nearly as powerful, so they'll probably be a skirmishing sort of unit like velites. Weak, not great range, mainly for flanking/poison. They'll actually probably play a lot like Rome from past TW games, in that you're mainly going to be about blocks of slow, heavy infantry.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:09
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Triskelli posted:Okay here's something new: what the hell what the downside of lizardmen be? From what I understand, they have great magic, great troops, decent shooting, awesome monsters, and some vicious cavalry.it doesn't sound like there's any downsides for people to exploit. It'll be hell for multiplayer matches, as far as I can tell. I just skimmed around but it sounds like they don't have any good artillery, their shooting is ok but all skirmishers, and most of their troops are slow.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:11
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you have to fight in jungles so you cant see poo poo
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Mar 26, 2017 17:12
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Davincie posted:you have to fight in jungles so you cant see poo poo And your only enemy is goddamn rats
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Mar 26, 2017 17:14
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Davincie posted:you have to fight in jungles so you cant see poo poo Snatch Duster posted:And your only enemy is goddamn rats Ah, the classic "Norscan Dilemma".
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Mar 26, 2017 17:19
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Rats and not-Spanish conquistadors. Plus you gotta carry that frog fossil around on a palanquin everywhere you go.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:22
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Triskelli posted:Okay here's something new: what the hell what the downside of lizardmen be? From what I understand, they have great magic, great troops, decent shooting, awesome monsters, and some vicious cavalry.it doesn't sound like there's any downsides for people to exploit. It'll be hell for multiplayer matches, as far as I can tell. Saurus (Sauri?) are actually pretty expensive, and skinks suck. It would also be the introduction of Stupidity on units (in tabletop that would stop a unit from obeying orders leave them stalled out), especially if Dark Elf Cold One Knights are expected in the game as well. Considering Frenzy is just a buff, I'm not sure Stupidity will make it into the game though. 
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Mar 26, 2017 17:22
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Ogre Chat: Ogres will be an interesting addition to the game, as an army they are almost entirely comprised of monstrous infantry and monstrous cavalry that also cause fear and are pretty good at charging. Their models are also obscenely large.  Bigly
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Mar 26, 2017 17:29
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Trolls in tabletop have the Stupidity rule. In TWW they behave like any other unit. Frenzy is an acceptable way to lose control of units, but Stupidity would be another of those tabletop rules which would be incredibly unfun to port over. "Sometimes the unit becomes unresponsive and just stands there" is some lame poo poo.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:31
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Triskelli posted:Okay here's something new: what the hell what the downside of lizardmen be? From what I understand, they have great magic, great troops, decent shooting, awesome monsters, and some vicious cavalry.it doesn't sound like there's any downsides for people to exploit. It'll be hell for multiplayer matches, as far as I can tell. no long range shooting, and while their units are good a bunch are not really all that cost effective. and skinks die/run very easy and without skink support the saruses, while tough and strong, are kind of mediocre at actually hitting things (which mathematically kind of made their damage output kind of underwhelming, and made them real poo poo against elite units) so they're not really going to carry the day on their lonesome. leadership is eh, which is a bigger problem on their monsters. but really the big problem is their long range shooting is non-existent, so anyone with a couple of canons or whatever makes them very unhappy.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:34
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At one point in the lore, there was a thing about lizardmen having a diminishing population because of how they reproduce. Basically a big frog orgy every now and then that result in spawning pools/ages. I think maluses to recruitment and replenishment would be appropriate for lizardmen.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:36
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There are more enemies to fight in Lustria, such as Norscans (yes, gently caress Norscans), undead pirates and the odd Dark Elf raid.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:39
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Tiler Kiwi posted:no long range shooting, and while their units are good a bunch are not really all that cost effective. and skinks die/run very easy and without skink support the saruses, while tough and strong, are kind of mediocre at actually hitting things (which mathematically kind of made their damage output kind of underwhelming, and made them real poo poo against elite units) so they're not really going to carry the day on their lonesome. leadership is eh, which is a bigger problem on their monsters. Idk how it was in later editions but lizardmen had awesome leadership in 6th. High base leadership value plus the cold blooded rule (roll 3d6, keep two lowest) meant they were reliable as heck
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Mar 26, 2017 17:41
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Idk how it was in later editions but lizardmen had awesome leadership in 6th. High base leadership value plus the cold blooded rule (roll 3d6, keep two lowest) meant they were reliable as heck Saurus Warriors have 8 LD+Cold Blooded in 8th, so that's certainly not a weak point. Still, basically their strong units are slow and their fast units are weak and their long-range options are limited, they're going to be an army that's good in close but hates artillery and kiting, most likely.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:45
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Idk how it was in later editions but lizardmen had awesome leadership in 6th. High base leadership value plus the cold blooded rule (roll 3d6, keep two lowest) meant they were reliable as heck yeah the first source i saw said that skink/monster/not-sarus leadership was 5, but checking now its a 6. idk what cold blooded makes that mathematically equal to, but 5 ended up being called a 6.6, so that's... pretty okay? worse than empire soldiers, so probably not "good". idk how a curve of "roll 3d6, throw away highest" looks or how higher/lower LD values end up influencing the average of it tho. sarus have pretty good values, but its not like, super good, just alright? still, while a few units have pretty drat good leadership, skinks/monsters are generally underwhelming. skinks, well they're all going to get mulched badly anyways if anything touches them, but the monsters being a bit flighty is a more significant weakness. maybe! idk really. cold blooded is kind of a dumb rule imo due to that. hard to tell how good an 8 is in comparison to an 8 from another army, at a glance. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 17:51
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Due to cold blooded rule Lizardmen leadership is pretty solid. I think their long range "artillery" shooting will be salamanders, razordons, and the bastiladon. Bastilidon will be kind of like the Empire luminark if I had to guess. Salamanders would be much faster moving flame cannons and razordons faster moving organ guns. Regular missiles won't be great. Skink skirmish clouds using javelins and blowpipes, but nothing long range like a regular archers. Edit: skinks do not suck Nash fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 17:52
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Lassitude posted:Trolls in tabletop have the Stupidity rule. In TWW they behave like any other unit. Frenzy is an acceptable way to lose control of units, but Stupidity would be another of those tabletop rules which would be incredibly unfun to port over. "Sometimes the unit becomes unresponsive and just stands there" is some lame poo poo. Right, I don't think it really has a place in a real-time strategy, but it was about what exactly was holding the No Obvious Drawbacks Lizardmen in check. I haven't touched the plastic crack in a decade, but honestly the variety in Psychology rules were the single most unique thing about Warhammer compared to anything else in wargaming, at least circa 6th-7th editions. It was a big part of bringing to life that in an absurd setting of literally unending war that these mostly-naked she-elf blood cultists/drugged-out and diseased ratman clerics/self-mutilating doomsaying (regular human) peasants were particularly bloodthirsty and uncontrollable compared to your regular stock of plastic murdermans. It is one of the few things I wish could survive the transition, but this is a Total War first and a wacky maladjusted romp in 80s British Neckbeard Sensibilities second.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:55
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Syrnn posted:Right, I don't think it really has a place in a real-time strategy, but it was about what exactly was holding the No Obvious Drawbacks Lizardmen in check. unreliability/randomness is a generally trash balancing mechanic, even on a tabletop game. there's better ways to add flavor, imo.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:58
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Lizardmen own, they had a relatively unique play style and also are dinosaurs who ride dinosaurs. Iirc their special temple guard unit could only be taken if you had a slann and they had to join as one unit. But they were unbreakable and the slann also acted as a bsb with ld 10(?). So basically everything in a radius around the slann never failed leadership. Heck yeah lizardmen JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 18:00
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Sarus have move 4, which is the same as humans, so idk why everyone is saying that they're "slow". Skink are 6. e: speaking of movement, Skaven have around mv 5 for their units, with skirmishers like gutter runners at 6. One weakness that I don't think was mentioned was their lack of calvary equivalent. Tiler Kiwi fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 18:03
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Lizards never needed artillery, you could literally cover the table in power dice. Why build cannons when you can just open up the sky and drop lightning on everything?
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Mar 26, 2017 18:09
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I'm sorry that Warhammer isn't up to your rigorous standards of finely tuned quality and mechanical balance. I guess the randomness of the old Psychology rules pales compared to innovations like literally braying at your opponent for rerolls or whatever. I mean, really, man? It's Warhammer  Back on the Total Ham front of things: for Wood Elves is there any real use for Glade Guard other than as cheap filler? Move and fire is pretty useless seeming on front arc only since I'm not faceplanting them into enemy units, and they feel like they rout as fast as Empire spearmen. Almost every other ranged unit has vanguard, 360° firing arc, and better damage to boot. Is there any reason not to just fill my main line with eternal guard and wardancers? Syrnn fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 18:19
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Syrnn posted:I'm sorry that Warhammer isn't up to your rigorous standards of finely tuned quality and mechanical balance. I guess the randomness of the old Psychology rules pales compared to innovations like literally braying at your opponent for rerolls or whatever. I mean, really, man? It's Warhammer what
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Mar 26, 2017 18:20
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he failed a stupidity check  i kid e: its also a reference to age of sigmar, which probably shouldn't be talked about because its incredibly stupid and bad
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Mar 26, 2017 18:21
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Tiler Kiwi posted:unreliability/randomness is a generally trash balancing mechanic, even on a tabletop game. Edit: For posting with some  and maybe providing a laugh for those not in the know: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/galleryoftheday/14266-New-Warhammer-Fantasy-Most-Absurd-Ridiculous-Crazy-Rules
Syrnn fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 18:22
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