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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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lets all just take a moment to appreciate that the guy yelling at leftists for supposedly parroting right wing talking points has been basing his arguments on the past page on the stereotype of a foreign horde on our doorstep
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Mar 26, 2017 21:13
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Raskolnikov38 posted:lets all just take a moment to appreciate that the guy yelling at leftists for supposedly parroting right wing talking points has been basing his arguments on the past page on the stereotype of a foreign horde on our doorstep the part where we must build a wall to keep the Mexicans out because it's the only way he can see to win rural white voters is also entertaining, imo
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Mar 26, 2017 21:16
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:People is not the same thing as families. I'm talking about families, not just individuals. I'll try to find the actual article but here- (btw, the concept that a progressive democrat president was still deporting families is pretty Obama tried to get immigration reform through Congress, getting it past the Senate only for it to stall in the House because Boehner refused to bring it to the floor, then in response, and specifically to your point, he unilaterally enacted DAPA to address your claim, which was pretty quickly overturned by the courts as beyond his authority, so I'm not sure what you think he should have done here differently: Democrats did run generally on "Republicans oppose immigration reform". That message was a big reason why everyone thought that Republicans had demographied themselves out of possibly winning 2016!
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Mar 26, 2017 21:28
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Obama tried to get immigration reform through Congress, getting it past the Senate only for it to stall in the House because Boehner refused to bring it to the floor, then in response, and specifically to your point, he unilaterally enacted DAPA to address your claim, which was pretty quickly overturned by the courts as beyond his authority, so I'm not sure what you think he should have done here differently: Democrats did run generally on "Republicans oppose immigration reform". That message was a big reason why everyone thought that Republicans had demographied themselves out of possibly winning 2016! Not deport families.
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Mar 26, 2017 21:48
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*sees the democrats thread got a few new pages* "Hmmm I wonder if one of JeffersonClay's likely dozen or more posts elaborated on Hillary's steadfast commitment to the platform, versus Obama's single payer being a prank that only naive idiots (leftists, probably) actually believed?" *checks thread* "Nope, just larping as a moderate Republican, as usual."
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Mar 26, 2017 21:51
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Not deport families. Yeah, like I said he tried ordering ICE to do that and got that order thrown out. What's he gonna do, super-order them?
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Mar 26, 2017 21:52
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Ze Pollack posted:the part where we must build a wall to keep the Mexicans out because it's the only way he can see to win rural white voters is also entertaining, imo The wall hillary voted for is built. Y'all are arguing that democrats would be successful running on knocking it down, disbanding ICE and allowing unlimited immigration to the US. It's laughable, 22% of Americans support increased immigration, and that's a hell of a lot more palatable than unlimited immigration http://www.gallup.com/poll/171962/decrease-immigration-increase.aspx. And now you're trying to argue that anyone who doesn't support unlimited immigration to the US is a right-wing shill. Dumbleftists.txt. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 21:53
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The What Aboutism coming out of JC is almost hilarious. In the end that's all his brand of politics offers is, but the other guy is worse
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Mar 26, 2017 21:54
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I'm arguing the immigration policy outlined in the democratic platform is better than the Republican policy AND better than the dumb leftist policy, actually. Unrestricted, unlimited immigration is bad on the merits and even worse from a political POV. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 21:57
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Raskolnikov38 posted:lets all just take a moment to appreciate that the guy yelling at leftists for supposedly parroting right wing talking points has been basing his arguments on the past page on the stereotype of a foreign horde on our doorstep Funny how right after the election the narrative was that the Democratic party will have to choose between "economic justice" (i.e. the purported left) and "identity politics" (i.e. centrists paying lip service to social justice). It's looking more and more like Democrats will have to choose between having both social and economic justice, or sticking with centrist cowards like JC who are running from both.
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Mar 26, 2017 22:00
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Yeah, like I said he tried ordering ICE to do that and got that order thrown out. What's he gonna do, super-order them? You're saying there wasn't a chance when obama had everything lined up at the begging of his presidency? Add "failed to even remotely fix the immigration sustem" to his list of things he did before his permanent vacation in billionaire resort island 🌴
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Mar 26, 2017 22:03
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Golly JC you sure are getting a lot of mileage out of that one Ytlaya post. Perhaps you should reconsider that cliff I was telling you about and let Ytlaya post in your stead.
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Mar 26, 2017 22:04
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JeffersonClay posted:I'm arguing the immigration policy outlined in the democratic platform is better than the Republican policy AND better than the dumb leftist policy, actually. Unrestricted, unlimited immigration is bad on the merits and even worse from a political POV. Lol at the unironic defense of a false meritocracy Jeff Clay wants extreme vetting for all refugees coming into this country and wants to build a giant barrier to keep them out What a great government expense white sauce fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 22:04
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Here's some Right Wing shilling from the Bernie Sanders for president website. quote:We must seriously reassess our foreign and international trade policies in light of the effects they have on migration and U.S. workers. A failure to do so will contribute to future flows that even the best-designed system will have extreme difficulty in addressing. Bernie thinks if we don't reform our trade policies the foreign hordes will overwhelm our immigration system! quote:Bernie would ensure that our border is secure all while protecting the rights and needs of our border communities. quote:Appropriations must be re-directed away from boondoggle walls to high grade cameras, thermal imaging, movement sensors and other technologies. More resources must also be allocated to CBP training and oversight, and to rebuild crumbling infrastructure along the border region. Senator Sanders will work to ensure that the CBP is a highly functioning law enforcement body. Bernie wants a surveillance state instead of a wall, that's good right? quote:We must regulate the future flow of immigrants by modernizing the visa system and rewriting bad trade agreements. quote:An electronic verification system like E-Verify should protect workers’ due process rights, and contain the strongest possible protections against abuse. Oh no Bernie wants to continue restricting border crossings and deportations and not allow unlimited immigration is he a republican too?
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Mar 26, 2017 22:10
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Lol I knew you were gonna bring up Bernie Sanders into this
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Mar 26, 2017 22:12
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If you're calling Bernie Sanders GOP-lite then maybe your policy views are real dumb?
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Mar 26, 2017 22:12
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:You're saying there wasn't a chance when obama had everything lined up at the begging of his presidency? Add "failed to even remotely fix the immigration sustem" to his list of things he did before his permanent vacation in billionaire resort island 🌴 Because he prioritized the ACA instead, unless there's some other period of time you're thinking of where a single Congress passes multiple pieces of landmark legislation
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Mar 26, 2017 22:13
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So the answer so far is a decisive no to the thread title.
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Mar 26, 2017 22:14
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https://berniesanders.com/open-borders-a-gimmick-not-a-solution/
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Mar 26, 2017 22:15
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quote:“You said being a democratic socialist means a more international view,” Klein said to Sanders. “I think if you take global poverty that seriously, it leads you to conclusions that in the U.S. are considered out of political bounds. Things like sharply raising the level of immigration we permit, even up to a level of open borders.” 
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Mar 26, 2017 22:21
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you wanna know how to sell opening up immigration? hold a national town hall and wait for the network to get some white guy from nebraska to ask about it. ask the questioner if they want to learn french language and adapt to french culture and leave behind everyone they've ever known to get free healthcare and all that paid time off. when they say no ask them why every single person on planet earth is apparently just itching at the chance to get at our lovely welfare system
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Mar 26, 2017 22:39
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Condiv posted:imo, the ideal candidate would deal with illegal immigration the smart way This, having known some Illegals, let me tell you alot come here because companies actively advertise in Central America for jobs here. Make the penalties for hiring illegals be punitive to the point where they do not hire illegals. Also I am perfectly fine with being against open borders. Its another thing to punish illegals when the reason they're here is mostly that companies knowingly illegally hire them. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 22:42
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Raskolnikov38 posted:you wanna know how to sell opening up immigration? hold a national town hall and wait for the network to get some white guy from nebraska to ask about it. ask the questioner if they want to learn french language and adapt to french culture and leave behind everyone they've ever known to get free healthcare and all that paid time off. when they say no ask them why every single person on planet earth is apparently just itching at the chance to get at our lovely welfare system 1). You need to defend unrestricted immigration in the hypothetical world where the US has a great welfare system, because you want both. 2). The difference between the US and France, in terms of welfare and wages, is a lot smaller than the difference between the US and, say, Honduras or Myanmar. 3). You are defending an immigration policy where immigrants can move here with all their family and friends and can reside with them in neighborhoods where their culture is the dominant one and where their language is the primary language spoken. Bernie is smart enough to realize your plan is bogus. Stairmaster posted:So the answer so far is a decisive no to the thread title. Well the membership of the Democratic Party doesn't support unrestricted open borders so JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 22:55
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JeffersonClay posted:1). You need to defend unrestricted immigration in the hypothetical world where the US has a great welfare system, because you want both. you do know its possible to have visa requirements while not having immigration quotas right? JeffersonClay posted:2). The difference between the US and France, in terms of welfare and wages, is a lot smaller than the difference between the US and, say, Honduras or Myanmar. its an analogy to explain immigration to midwesterners not a thesis on why all people should to immigrate to france instead JeffersonClay posted:Bernie is smart enough to realize your plan is bogus. bernie is not infallible and neither are other democrats
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Mar 26, 2017 23:11
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Raskolnikov38 posted:you do know its possible to have visa requirements while not having immigration quotas right? It's not possible to have visa requirements without restricting border crossings and deportations for visa violators though. quote:its an analogy to explain immigration to midwesterners not a thesis on why all people should to immigrate to france instead The analogy fails for those 3 reasons. quote:bernie is not infallible and neither are other democrats Bernie is not GOP-lite and neither are other democrats advocating similar policies.
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Mar 26, 2017 23:15
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JeffersonClay posted:If you're calling Bernie Sanders GOP-lite then maybe your policy views are real dumb? you're the only one doing that JC.
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Mar 26, 2017 23:26
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Condiv posted:you're the only one doing that JC. Nope Tight Booty Shorts posted:No, Democrat's idea of what immigration should be isn't the right one. Both parties are poo poo Raskolnikov38 posted:lets all just take a moment to appreciate that the guy yelling at leftists for supposedly parroting right wing talking points has been basing his arguments on the past page on the stereotype of a foreign horde on our doorstep Ze Pollack posted:the part where we must build a wall to keep the Mexicans out because it's the only way he can see to win rural white voters is also entertaining, imo Tight Booty Shorts posted:Lol at the unironic defense of a false meritocracy I'm defending Bernie's positions on immigration here. But the dumb left gwan dumb left.
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Mar 26, 2017 23:34
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Wow, JC is now openly lying through his teeth.
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Mar 26, 2017 23:37
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JC the great defender of Latinas and Bernie Sanders. 
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Mar 26, 2017 23:37
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JeffersonClay posted:Nope hate to tell you this, but none of those posts are attacking sanders' positions Condiv fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 23:39
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Bernie sanders does not want open borders. Bernie sanders does not want to end deportations. Bernie sanders advocates for a secure border and effective immigration enforcement. These are not GOP-lite positions.
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Mar 26, 2017 23:42
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You know JC's avatar is really fitting him right now.
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Mar 26, 2017 23:47
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JC you should go take a breather.
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Mar 26, 2017 23:53
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JeffersonClay posted:Bernie sanders does not want open borders. Bernie sanders does not want to end deportations. Bernie sanders advocates for a secure border and effective immigration enforcement. These are not GOP-lite positions. deporting children is a GOP-lite position jeff. deporting child refugees is hosed up and bernie doesn't advocate for that. but clinton does. that's one of the things that makes her gop-lite
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Mar 26, 2017 23:58
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Because he prioritized the ACA instead, unless there's some other period of time you're thinking of where a single Congress passes multiple pieces of landmark legislation Priorities: giving billionaires handjobs, fellating the insurance industry Not a priority: fixing immigration, Medicaid for all
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Mar 27, 2017 00:03
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Me: let's not have a giant barrier that ultimately serves no purpose and instead let's do what Canada does and have compassionate border police and medical services to protect refugees. Also let's not demonized illegal immigrants Jeff Clay:  OPEN BORDERS WILL NEVER EVER COME TO PASS
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Mar 27, 2017 00:07
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Me: let's not have a giant barrier that ultimately serves no purpose and instead let's do what Canada does and have compassionate border police and medical services to protect refugees. Also let's not demonized illegal immigrants nice try mitt romney
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Mar 27, 2017 00:10
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Condiv posted:deporting children is a GOP-lite position jeff. deporting child refugees is hosed up and bernie doesn't advocate for that. but clinton does. that's one of the things that makes her gop-lite Deporting children is inevitable if you intend to restrict immigration. Families will always attempt to immigrate in violation of immigration policies, and neither Bernie nor Clinton advocated exempting children from deportation. Both Bernie and Clinton advocated policies that would reduce the harm caused by deportations, reduce deportations generally, and attempt to rationalize the system in a more humane way. Tight Booty Shorts posted:Me: let's not have a giant barrier that ultimately serves no purpose and instead let's do what Canada does and have compassionate border police and medical services to protect refugees. Also let's not demonized illegal immigrants Bernie: lets's secure the border with thermal imaging and motion sensors and adequately fund and train the CBP so they can enforce the law. TBS: ... JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 00:17
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JeffersonClay posted:Bernie sanders does not want open borders. Bernie sanders does not want to end deportations. Bernie sanders advocates for a secure border and effective immigration enforcement. These are not GOP-lite positions. Yes they are. And this is coming from someone who supports these positions (illegal immigration is like the one issue I lean conservative on). The fact that Bernie supports them doesn't change this.
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Mar 27, 2017 00:19
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JeffersonClay posted:Deporting children is inevitable if you intend to restrict immigration. Families will always attempt to immigrate in violation of immigration policies, and neither Bernie nor Clinton advocated exempting children from deportation. Both Bernie and Clinton advocated policies that would reduce the harm caused by deportations, reduce deportations generally, and attempt to rationalize the system in a more humane way. Rationalizing the system: building a wall, deporting refugee children Not rational: single payer healthcare, free college, not deporting refugees
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Mar 27, 2017 00:25
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