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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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Yes, both Bernie and Clinton advocated policies that would allow more immigrants, particularly children, to be recognized and protected as refugees. Obama could not achieve that through an executive order.readingatwork posted:Yes they are. And this is coming from someone who supports these positions (illegal immigration is like the one issue I lean conservative on). The fact that Bernie supports them doesn't change this. If you "lean conservative" on "illegal immigration" you probably don't support Clinton's and Bernie's positions on immigration because they both want amnesty for undocumented immigrants, a path to citizenship, increased legal immigration, and acceptance of more refugees. If you agree with those positions, you do not actually have conservative views on the issue. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 00:27
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Crowsbeak posted:You know JC's avatar is really fitting him right now. 
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Mar 27, 2017 00:59
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Why are we treating refugees like immigrants? Refugees are not loving immigrants, let's stop conflating the two when they are muy the same. And especially even abusing them is a violation of human rights. You know that thing democrats say they care about until they're actually in power
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Mar 27, 2017 01:04
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JeffersonClay posted:If you "lean conservative" on "illegal immigration" you probably don't support Clinton's and Bernie's positions on immigration because they both want amnesty for undocumented immigrants, a path to citizenship, increased legal immigration, and acceptance of more refugees. If you agree with those positions, you do not actually have conservative views on the issue. Actually most establishment Republicans want those things too (because their donors would benefit from making immigrant competition with American workers permanent). It's actually a pretty big point of contention between the GOP and it's base  .TBF though this is one of those issues where the left/right model of politics kind of falls apart. In fact if you think about it one could argue that the truly leftist position is "close the border/no amnesty/deport them all" because competition with immigrant labor undermines unions worker pay (for the record, I don't hold that position for moral reasons). So it kind of depends on how you ask the question i guess.
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Mar 27, 2017 01:04
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Just a reminder most Americans aren't nearly as big leftists as the average D&D circle jerk.
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Mar 27, 2017 01:26
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Also Condiv why do you care? I thought you had some exciting "nibbles" when you spoke of making your own party?
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Mar 27, 2017 01:36
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readingatwork posted:Actually most establishment Republicans want those things too (because their donors would benefit from making immigrant competition with American workers permanent). It's actually a pretty big point of contention between the GOP and it's base Right that's why its less about immigration than it is a worker protection issue. An influx of immigration creates wage suppression for its citizens, the easy solution is to start severely punishing employers that hire them. Which would dry up all the jobs available to immigrants and they won't be coming here because the entire reason they do is to work. Totally unnecessary to have a wall. One of the problems Mexicans faced with NAFTA is their own government did little spending in its infrastructure to accommodate American invested factories and then you had wages that were less than what workers were making here. So lack of good paying jobs, an oligarchical government, crumbling infrastructure it's no surprise they migrated to America. However by doing that there is no pressure from Mexicans for their government to change or face a revolt.
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Mar 27, 2017 01:49
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KomradeX posted:Why are we treating refugees like immigrants? Refugees are not loving immigrants, let's stop conflating the two when they are muy the same. And especially even abusing them is a violation of human rights. You know that thing democrats say they care about until they're actually in power This is a really good point, but it will just devolve into arguing about who is a refugee.
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Mar 27, 2017 01:59
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Both Clinton and Sanders proposed making it easier for refugees to achieve legal recognition of that status in the US immigration system. readingatwork posted:Actually most establishment Republicans want those things too (because their donors would benefit from making immigrant competition with American workers permanent). It's actually a pretty big point of contention between the GOP and it's base Some establishment republicans wanted some of those things, but none of them wanted all those things, and even fewer do now that Trump curbstomped the ones like Lindsay Graham and Rick Perry. JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 02:04
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Despera posted:Also Condiv why do you care? I thought you had some exciting "nibbles" when you spoke of making your own party? please stop writing fan-fiction about me despera
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Mar 27, 2017 02:35
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Hello, I am Hillary Clinton. I simultaneously voted to build a giant barrier in the desert to keep those drat illegals out, and I also believe in giving the people we sent back to Mexico a chance to get their papers
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Mar 27, 2017 04:15
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readingatwork posted:Actually most establishment Republicans want those things too (because their donors would benefit from making immigrant competition with American workers permanent). It's actually a pretty big point of contention between the GOP and it's base The true left wing position is crush the companies that hire illegals.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:35
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Crowsbeak posted:The true left wing position is crush the companies that hire illegals. And then just kick everyone out of the country as automation replaces workers.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:43
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Hmm, yes a bunch of centrist telling leftists what leftist policy is/should be. Here's a leftist voter's position, one who has lived on both sides of the border, who has close family members who are here illegally, and who has experienced first hand both good and bad immigration policies: 0) Stop the war on drugs and end NAFTA. Help Mexico and Central America create stable economies. 1) Our borders are plenty secure already, just modernize our methods. BP agents should be scouts and guards, not foot soldiers. 2) Enforce full minimum wage for ANY workers in the US. Crack down on companies who cut corners. 3) Expand ALL legal visas. 4) Give temporary workers entry passes.* * This is where centrist and right wingers are gonna flip because they don't understand the nature of economic immigrants. People don't want to have to live here. They want to work for a bit and go home. When we make them fear re-entry, they stay indefinitely. Let people come and go freely. I assure you, more people are gonna return home with the peace of mind of knowing they could come back if they faced hardships.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:52
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Frijolero posted:Hmm, yes a bunch of centrist telling leftists what leftist policy is/should be. no i'm sorry this is impossible because the FOREIGN HORDES will take all the WELFARE
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Mar 27, 2017 04:54
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Frijolero posted:
Yeah the exact opposite of this is actually what happened.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:13
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Torpor posted:Yeah the exact opposite of this is actually what happened. You're totally right, people loving LOVE being economically displaced from their birthplaces and families at the promise of maybe squeaking just enough money to barely survive and never being able to return home because of fear of detention. It's their favorite thing to do and don't mind at all.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:17
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Torpor posted:Yeah the exact opposite of this is actually what happened. Yeah silly. That's why we should fix it by making it easier for them to leave on their own.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:48
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Rexicon1 posted:You're totally right, people loving LOVE being economically displaced from their birthplaces and families at the promise of maybe squeaking just enough money to barely survive and never being able to return home because of fear of detention. It's their favorite thing to do and don't mind at all. That folks gotta work or be critically disabled under a valid SSN to draw welfare which is Not Much Money BTW, and that the work requirement is a Clinton thing, does not get its due talk in Serious DemocratTM discourse i think. Just this month I had a dude at my job lamenting his promotion to the princely sum of $10.75/hr locking his wife and kids and him out of section 8 housing, necessitating a fuckin' cliff of expenses in finding market-rate housing he had to finance on credit cards he was suddenly eligible for on adjustable rates. Like; why should this dude not be selling heroin? Why is he working a legit job on a high school education and maybe, as a 25 year old, looking at undergrad as a ten year plan, maybe, maybe, assuming more debt maybe and not getting his Breaking Bad on? Democrats: what is your answer for this loving horseshit?
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Mar 27, 2017 06:05
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Willie Tomg posted:Like; why should this dude not be selling heroin? Why is he working a legit job on a high school education and maybe, as a 25 year old, looking at undergrad as a ten year plan, maybe, maybe, assuming more debt maybe and not getting his Breaking Bad on? Democrats: what is your answer for this loving horseshit? JeffersonClay posted:Then it follows that they'll blame trump for conditions getting worse under his tenure and these voters will inevitably return to the democrats, who need change nothing to win the next election.
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Mar 27, 2017 06:25
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Kilroy posted:It's a long thread, so you might have missed it: I missed that. WOnder why he hasn't supported Bernies new measure to solve the healthcare problem.
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Mar 27, 2017 06:56
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Adopt policies that not only are popular but may help us win elections?? OVER MY DEAD CENTRIST BODY 
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Mar 27, 2017 13:39
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GOP just floundered on healthcare, and the Dems are busying themselves with a Russia investigation 
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Mar 27, 2017 14:03
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Frijolero posted:GOP just floundered on healthcare, and the Dems are busying themselves with a Russia investigation I would rather Bernie take the helm on pushing decent health care instead of the Dems, personally.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:05
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Pollyanna posted:I would rather Bernie take the helm on pushing decent health care instead of the Dems, personally. He's literally already said that he's going to introduce Medicare for all legislation.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:09
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I wonder which Dems will vote against it 🤔
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Mar 27, 2017 14:09
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Pollyanna posted:I would rather Bernie take the helm on pushing decent health care instead of the Dems, personally. He's planning to release a Medicare for All bill soon. I honestly don't know why a Dem hasn't done it yet. No leadership.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:10
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Frijolero posted:He's planning to release a Medicare for All bill soon. I honestly don't know why a Dem hasn't done it yet. No leadership. Sen Sanders is a few months behind the Dems. https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/676
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Mar 27, 2017 14:25
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Im looking forward to the dem's 2020 support of an inexpensive, modest wall
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Mar 27, 2017 14:35
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Calibanibal posted:Im looking forward to the dem's 2020 support of an inexpensive, modest wall It'll have solar panels.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:47
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Pelosi? Nowhere to be seen?
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Mar 27, 2017 14:52
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Pelosi? Nowhere to be seen? Give her a chance!
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Mar 27, 2017 15:16
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Frijolero posted:He's planning to release a Medicare for All bill soon. I honestly don't know why a Dem hasn't done it yet. No leadership. BiohazrD posted:He's literally already said that he's going to introduce Medicare for all legislation. That's literally what I was referring to.
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Mar 27, 2017 15:40
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My bad not knowing about the House bill, but it's telling that it isn't widely known or it isn't being hammered by the Dem leadership. I'm not trying to nitpick. But now's the time to strike and they're simply not doing it.
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Mar 27, 2017 15:50
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JeffersonClay posted:The right immigration policy is the one outlined in the Democratic platform. Amnesty and a path to citizenship for current undocumented immigrants, allow more legal immigration and accept more refugees. You know they lost the election right? You're talking about this like it's hypotheticals about how people should vote and what they will support. We know who they voted for.
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Mar 27, 2017 15:57
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Despera posted:Just a reminder most Americans aren't nearly as big leftists as the average D&D circle jerk. just a reminder like every post you made before the election was proven wrong in the most hilarious way possible
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Mar 27, 2017 16:04
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Pedro De Heredia posted:You know they lost the election right? Uh, yeah, I know who they voted for and what his position on immigration was. Which is why I know running on unlimited immigration and open borders is such a laughable idea. We know people don't support that, at all.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:10
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JeffersonClay posted:Uh, yeah, I know who they voted for and what his position on immigration was. Which is why I know running on unlimited immigration and open borders is such a laughable idea. We know people don't support that, at all. Lmao, yea, that's why they lost. We gotta get these voters back to our party not by espousing good views on jobs and the economy, but by demonizing refugees and building barriers in the desert
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Mar 27, 2017 16:18
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JeffersonClay posted:Uh, yeah, I know who they voted for and what his position on immigration was. Which is why I know running on unlimited immigration and open borders is such a laughable idea. We know people don't support that, at all. Not a single person* has advocated for "unlimited immigration," but seeing as how you have no ground to stand on, I don't blame you for grasping at strawmen. * The only major 21st century political figure who has advocated for unlimited immigration is Jill Stein. And she's not human according to most centrists. Frijolero fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 16:29
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The democratic platform didn't call for building more barriers, and it called for accepting more refugees. I agree your strawman is dumb. Your assertion that nobody voted for trump because they preferred his immigration policies, and that none of them viewed excluding immigrants and deporting those already here as affecting jobs and the economy is peak dumb leftist.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:30
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