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ImpAtom posted:He doesn't have his helmet onhand though. He explicitly got rid of it and wasn't using it anymore, unless he shoved it into his cockpit and kept it around just in case he needed to dramatically put it back on. i just assumed that he wasn't feeling the need to wear it anymore but still had it
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Mar 27, 2017 04:34
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RottenK posted:i think that putting on a helmet that you have on hand anyways before going after someone who probably has a gun is a completely reasonable decision Putting on a helmet before disembarking into a blown open airlock/hangar is also a completely reasonable decision. We even saw McGillis seal his own as everything goes casters-up and no one seems to complain about that part. And yet so many people are just so cranky about Gaelio having re-sealed his helmet with the mask that belongs to it, it's kind of entertaining in its own way.
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Mar 27, 2017 04:33
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i like that they spent most of the show setting up mcgillis like some master puppetmaster but no he's just another person completely broken by his hosed up childhood
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Mar 27, 2017 04:40
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McGillis, the chocolate-blooded orphan.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:03
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I'm really interested to see what this show ends on. I'm assuming we get an ending monologue from Atra or Kudelia but I have no idea what the final message will be at this point. If we do have some out of nowhere season 3 I hope it stars Julieta coming to terms with the fact that her side sucks. If Mika survives this battle I imagine it will be her letting him leave because she sympathizes with him.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:10
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Tae posted:I mean the only thing I know about Mari Okada is Tora Dora so maybe she should just stick to light novel adaptations next time. Perhaps you should go watch Aquarion Evol or M3 to get an idea of what she does with a completely free hand (with both being mecha even!). Actually, don't do that, they're both terrible. She has her good points in scriptwriting, but I have a feeling that she had people checking over her work in making a Gundam series, and it probably really worked out for the better. Anyways, we potentially have some interesting points to wrap up in this final episode. Julietta has basically acknowledged she's realized Rustal's a shitheel, but it remains to be seen if anything will be done with that. We've also got Gaelio now drifting at loose ends, having accomplished the task he's been dedicating himself to. And the hope that something happens to Nobliss before the end (issues with Rustal are already intertwined with the other ones). ...I honestly can't think of any particularly interesting plot threads left on the Tekkadan side. While I don't think it's impossible that Kudelia may end up doing something significant in the last episode, I also sort of feel it would be unearned - she's spent almost the entire second season doing basically nothing, after all.
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Mar 27, 2017 05:53
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Ethiser posted:I'm really interested to see what this show ends on. I'm assuming we get an ending monologue from Atra or Kudelia but I have no idea what the final message will be at this point. This has kept me watching, but seeing the way other character/plot arcs have been concluded these last few episodes, I'm pretty convinced at this point that we're going to get some generic non-message which doesn't really say anything. I think the clincher was this episode, there were so many ways they could have tackled the whole Almira-McGillis thing, truly a weird, hosed up, multi-faceted situation there, but apparently they're just going to cap it off with some devoted wife nonsense. Pretty disappointing.
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Mar 27, 2017 08:46
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Xy Hapu posted:This has kept me watching, but seeing the way other character/plot arcs have been concluded these last few episodes, I'm pretty convinced at this point that we're going to get some generic non-message which doesn't really say anything. I think the clincher was this episode, there were so many ways they could have tackled the whole Almira-McGillis thing, truly a weird, hosed up, multi-faceted situation there, but apparently they're just going to cap it off with some devoted wife nonsense. Pretty disappointing. I think that mainly ended up as an indicator of just how empty McGillis was - the person he connected with most in the world was a pre-teen girl. He really never did grow up past the brothel.  I would also argue that he serves an important role in the story. He's the worst-case Orga to Naze's best-case, a naive, overambitious, emotionally-disconnected child hiding behind a mask of competence, and he's the tempter who lures Tekkadan into finally overreaching and destroying itself after reaching a position of moderate security. He's also yet another indictment of the system - not only for what it did to him, but for making so many people desperate enough that they'd turn to someone as hollow and untrustworthy as him as a saviour.
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Mar 27, 2017 09:07
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Darth Walrus posted:I think that mainly ended up as an indicator of just how empty McGillis was - the person he connected with most in the world was a pre-teen girl. He really never did grow up past the brothel. Right, I just think that's really weak use of a crazy rear end situation that could have been used to explore things way beyond some guy's emptiness. I feel that's analogous to the larger arc of the show, the concept of self-liberated child soldiers could have probably been put to better use than to just throw them against generic corrupt government and watch them die (except a few who survive due to the sacrifice of some of the others, and then their children run around in a happy golden field etc. etc., the end).
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Mar 27, 2017 10:04
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You know, whatever else happens, I'm glad the episode remembered to take a moment for what's really important: making GBS threads on Eugene. It was nice having some of the younger recruits respond to his attempt to be cool and heroic by piloting Orga's old suit with "But don't you suck at MS piloting?", followed by running through his practice battles, starting with the minor and forgivable fact that Mika kicked his rear end in training, and slowly running through the rest of the pilot roster, reaching (at minimum) Chad before the scene cut away. I know his odds are terrible, but after wanting it to be good, my greatest hope for the finale is Eugene somehow making it through alive... and still looking like a goober.
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Mar 27, 2017 10:17
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Tae posted:I mean the only thing I know about Mari Okada is Tora Dora so maybe she should just stick to light novel adaptations next time. At her best she's a really good writer. At her worst, she churns out garbage. You never know what you're gonna get when you see her name on the credits. But that said the other stuff she wrote with the IBO director are quite good, in fact! Anohana is the definitive work by that team for a reason but they also worked on a 2015 movie called Anthem of the Heart that was excellent in its characterization; in retrospect making how IBO's characters were handled all the more disappointing to me.
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Mar 27, 2017 10:25
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McGillis spent his final fight thinking he was King poo poo and all were in awe of his talents, when it was just Rustal telling his pilots to hold off and let Gaelio deal with McGillis. Delusions of grandeur don't even begin to cover it.
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Mar 27, 2017 10:42
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Neddy Seagoon posted:McGillis spent his final fight thinking he was King poo poo and all were in awe of his talents, when it was just Rustal telling his pilots to hold off and let Gaelio deal with McGillis. Delusions of grandeur don't even begin to cover it. Well, up until he faced Gaelio he was pretty much chumping the Gjallarhorn goons. But he's in a Gundam with an AV system.
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Mar 27, 2017 10:59
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Argas posted:Well, up until he faced Gaelio he was pretty much chumping the Gjallarhorn goons. But he's in a Gundam with an AV system. Though we shouldn't totally downplay his achievements. He was in a very plain Gundam (big thrusters, two swords, and two rapid-firing guns that he barely ever used) and had limited A-V experience, and still managed to carve his way through half a fleet and total the deadliest mobile suit in the solar system. One man is no match for many, but McGillis gave it a damned fine shot.
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Mar 27, 2017 11:22
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Ethiser posted:I'm really interested to see what this show ends on. I'm assuming we get an ending monologue from Atra or Kudelia but I have no idea what the final message will be at this point. Im going to assume its going to end a lot like Fang of the Sun Dougram. JudgeJoeBrown fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 11:40
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Gundams aren't that great in this universe outside of specific small skirmish encounters. It is not like the 00 riser or strike freedom that can literally take out battalions of ships with no sweat.
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Mar 27, 2017 12:12
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Tae posted:Gundams aren't that great in this universe outside of specific small skirmish encounters. It is not like the 00 riser or strike freedom that can literally take out battalions of ships with no sweat. Well, there was the engagement against Jasley's fleet. I don't think we've seen quite the same scale of unstoppable rampage before now, though - by my reckoning, McGillis managed more capital ship kills in a single engagement than Mikazuki has scored in his entire career.
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Mar 27, 2017 12:32
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Darth Walrus posted:Though we shouldn't totally downplay his achievements. He was in a very plain Gundam (big thrusters, two swords, and two rapid-firing guns that he barely ever used) and had limited A-V experience, and still managed to carve his way through half a fleet and total the deadliest mobile suit in the solar system. One man is no match for many, but McGillis gave it a damned fine shot. I was really hoping Bael would have a trick up its sleeve. Specifically, I was hoping the whole "Mobile Suit that contains the soul of Agnika Kaieru" thing would end up being a little more literal than McGillis thought. Einborg vs Terrifying War God would have been cool. 
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Mar 27, 2017 12:37
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Nerses IV posted:I was really hoping Bael would have a trick up its sleeve. Specifically, I was hoping the whole "Mobile Suit that contains the soul of Agnika Kaieru" thing would end up being a little more literal than McGillis thought. Einborg vs Terrifying War God would have been cool. Honestly, there was still a touch of romance to Bael. It was this beautifully plain, simple machine with nothing going for it other than its masterful engineering, and yet in the hands of a master, it made the solar system tremble again before it fell. It wasn't enough, but it was a lot.
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Mar 27, 2017 12:47
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Overlord K posted:I got a big old laugh out of how the start of the episode showed McGillis was 100% in the clear regarding Orga since nearly everyone in this thread was pinning it on him super hard. It's actually pretty disappointing to me that it wasn't McGillis. It would have fit his methodology perfectly - he's a charismatic manipulator who uses people like tools without regard for their lives and Tekkadan and Mikazuki have been his personal touchstones that inspired him to launch this entire disastrous coup in the first place. Him trying to engineer a scenario where Tekkadan is under his control for a final assault would have made perfect sense, far more than "well, time for a one man suicide charge because I AM THE STRONGEST!!!". I have mixed feelings on McGillis as a character. I like him for what an utter broken bastard he is and how most of his actions are consistent with his hosed up world view and origins, but I feel like the last few episodes have thrown away what made him interesting and made him very one note.
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Mar 27, 2017 12:54
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Kanos posted:It's actually pretty disappointing to me that it wasn't McGillis. It would have fit his methodology perfectly - he's a charismatic manipulator who uses people like tools without regard for their lives and Tekkadan and Mikazuki have been his personal touchstones that inspired him to launch this entire disastrous coup in the first place. Him trying to engineer a scenario where Tekkadan is under his control for a final assault would have made perfect sense, far more than "well, time for a one man suicide charge because I AM THE STRONGEST!!!". I think that's the fundamental punchline of his character, though. He was never an especially gifted schemer, just a guy who was really great at looking like he ought to be one. He got where he was through sheer audacity, doing things that no sane person would do, and he looked impressive enough, projected enough confidence, and had enough talent in other fields (if nothing else, he was a true genius pilot) that everyone assumed it was part of some grand master plan rather than, well, him being insane. It's like Being There, except Chance the Gardener gets everyone killed at the end.
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Mar 27, 2017 13:21
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Darth Walrus posted:Honestly, there was still a touch of romance to Bael. It was this beautifully plain, simple machine with nothing going for it other than its masterful engineering, and yet in the hands of a master, it made the solar system tremble again before it fell. I dunno, it could have been enough. I'm pretty sure the only mobile suit and pilot capable of being anything more than a speedbump to Mikazuki are going to be out of commission for a while, unless there's some huge flip where he decides he'd rather have his remaining functional limbs instead of following a dead guy's last command. McGillis proved you can get to Rustal with a single suit and a good distraction if there's not a perfect foil waiting for you, and I wouldn't buy Julieta facing off with Mikazuki again without getting her turned in to chunky salsa. So there's a pretty good chance Gjallarhorn-as-is will be toast at the end of the next episode. There just won't be any clear leader to take command of it afterwards unless being the guy to singlehandedly defeat a Mobile Armor starts mattering a whole hell of a lot more it has thus far, and people who are actually alive decide Mikazuki's got a touch of the ol' Agnika Kaieru. Which is probably the best chance there is to get Kudelia involved in running something that's actually relevant to the plot. So basically, I'm not optimistic.
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Mar 27, 2017 13:23
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It would be an interesting reversal if we get an epilogue with a bunch of scenes where Iok and Rustal and whoever else get whacked by former Tekkadan members hitman-style. Regardless though, I think the ending will still be relatively optimistic unless literally all of Tekkadan dies; when I look back on it, they did ridiculously well for themselves for a bunch of disposable child soldiers, almost to the point of fantasy, and now they're just back in the real world, where being able to fight, fool, and partly escape a world power who wants them dead is actually a pretty big victory. In that sense I think the window for a truly pessimistic ending was gone after Season 1.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:47
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Neddy Seagoon posted:McGillis spent his final fight thinking he was King poo poo and all were in awe of his talents, when it was just Rustal telling his pilots to hold off and let Gaelio deal with McGillis. Delusions of grandeur don't even begin to cover it. I forgot to mention that but that owned. McGillis being so goddamn proud and happy about how his philosophy was being justified when it was just Rustal going "heh, man, this is a good fight, I wanna watch" is one of the most excellently bittersweet things in the entire series.
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Mar 27, 2017 15:11
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ImpAtom posted:I forgot to mention that but that owned. McGillis being so goddamn proud and happy about how his philosophy was being justified when it was just Rustal going "heh, man, this is a good fight, I wanna watch" is one of the most excellently bittersweet things in the entire series. I kinda saw it as Rustal going "Wait, wait guys; just watch. It's gonna be really funny  ".
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Mar 27, 2017 15:14
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Darth Walrus posted:I think that's the fundamental punchline of his character, though. He was never an especially gifted schemer, just a guy who was really great at looking like he ought to be one. He got where he was through sheer audacity, doing things that no sane person would do, and he looked impressive enough, projected enough confidence, and had enough talent in other fields (if nothing else, he was a true genius pilot) that everyone assumed it was part of some grand master plan rather than, well, him being insane. He was pretty ridiculously good at scheming to betray all of his friends, and he was on track as a credible political opponent to Rustal before he found out Gaelio was alive and Rustal effectively had a gun to his head the entire time.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:04
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Kanos posted:He was pretty ridiculously good at scheming to betray all of his friends, and he was on track as a credible political opponent to Rustal before he found out Gaelio was alive and Rustal effectively had a gun to his head the entire time. Aside from the fact his entire plan was "I'm gonna get the Big Boy Gundam, and then they'll do what I tell them!"
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Mar 27, 2017 16:12
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Tae posted:We're not in Gundam-directly-stabbed-cockpit-explodes-no-wait-I turned off the nuclear reactor I'm fine-territory yet. The explosion was from the Minerva's Lohengrin shooting at the Archangel. It demolished the Impulse and Freedom both. The Freedom did not explode. EDIT: So far, I've enjoyed IBO a lot more these past few episodes. I've always enjoyed the civil war plot way more then the Tekkadan plot. Kchama fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 16:55
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Kanos posted:He was pretty ridiculously good at scheming to betray all of his friends, and he was on track as a credible political opponent to Rustal before he found out Gaelio was alive and Rustal effectively had a gun to his head the entire time. He tricked a couple of naive young idealists, (at least) one of whom was madly in love with him, in order to steal power they would have shared with him freely. Not exactly an act of political genius.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:30
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Darth Walrus posted:He tricked a couple of naive young idealists, (at least) one of whom was madly in love with him, in order to steal power they would have shared with him freely. Not exactly an act of political genius. Yeah, this is why I love that dynamic. Three of the Seven Stars were already on board, he could enacted change bloodlessly, possibly without any of the covert shenanigans either. Rustal might not have fallen in line (but we don't really know his motivations or intentions still), but Iok could probably be won over, the two old guys who knows, but presumably have heirs that might be more sympathetic, especially given time. I really hope Gali-gali makes the right call! I think I'm more invested in him and Julietta, possibly because Tekkaden has been so self-destructive, they seem doomed. The series will end on a montage set to RAISE YOUR FLAG right?
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Mar 27, 2017 18:08
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ImpAtom posted:I forgot to mention that but that owned. McGillis being so goddamn proud and happy about how his philosophy was being justified when it was just Rustal going "heh, man, this is a good fight, I wanna watch" is one of the most excellently bittersweet things in the entire series. I think Rustal told everyone to hold off because he's thinking ahead to the future. When McGillis was alive, Gaelio could be counted on to be motivated solely by revenge. After McGillis died, Gaelio becomes an unknown quantity, politically. McGillis was not getting out of that confrontation alive, but if he killed Gaelio in the process that would just be eliminating a potential future threat to Rustal.
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Mar 27, 2017 18:15
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BizarroAzrael posted:Yeah, this is why I love that dynamic. Three of the Seven Stars were already on board, he could enacted change bloodlessly, possibly without any of the covert shenanigans either. Rustal might not have fallen in line (but we don't really know his motivations or intentions still), but Iok could probably be won over, the two old guys who knows, but presumably have heirs that might be more sympathetic, especially given time. I really hope Gali-gali makes the right call! I think I'm more invested in him and Julietta, possibly because Tekkaden has been so self-destructive, they seem doomed. Orphans' Tears, surely?
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Mar 27, 2017 18:42
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Guy Goodbody posted:I think Rustal told everyone to hold off because he's thinking ahead to the future. When McGillis was alive, Gaelio could be counted on to be motivated solely by revenge. After McGillis died, Gaelio becomes an unknown quantity, politically. McGillis was not getting out of that confrontation alive, but if he killed Gaelio in the process that would just be eliminating a potential future threat to Rustal. Could also be that he has a touch if respect for Gailio. Gailio clearly wanted to deal with the matter himself and wouldn't have been satisfied if some mook had managed to gank McGillis in the back while he was fighting.
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Mar 27, 2017 20:05
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Aside from the fact his entire plan was "I'm gonna get the Big Boy Gundam, and then they'll do what I tell them!" That plan could have worked completely perfectly if he had been able to enact it in a less confrontational way, though. Keep in mind that owning Bael was enough to get the Seven Stars on Earth to declare neutrality before the big blow-up despite the fact that McGillis had effectively pulled a violent coup - the mere fact that he was "chosen" by Bael meant that they couldn't write him off as a criminal and a traitor at that time. Imagine if McGillis had continued being the Seven Stars' golden boy wunderkind for a while longer before peacefully taking control of Bael. BizarroAzrael posted:Yeah, this is why I love that dynamic. Three of the Seven Stars were already on board, he could enacted change bloodlessly, possibly without any of the covert shenanigans either. Rustal might not have fallen in line (but we don't really know his motivations or intentions still), but Iok could probably be won over, the two old guys who knows, but presumably have heirs that might be more sympathetic, especially given time. I really hope Gali-gali makes the right call! I think I'm more invested in him and Julietta, possibly because Tekkaden has been so self-destructive, they seem doomed. I still have trouble seeing how people read Gaelio as a character interested in reform or change at this point. Gaelio has spent this entire season hell bent on revenge at the cost of everything else. He's basically unchanged from his season 1 self except the target of his revenge boner shifted from Tekkadan to McGillis. Remember that this is a guy whose idea of honoring the wishes of an injured friend was to cyborg that friend up so he could murder a bunch of kids.
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Mar 27, 2017 20:08
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It's sort of interesting that Kudelia's take as steady, peaceful change may be the one to ring out, when both Mcgillis and Orga were destroyed by their desire to get to the end point as soon as possible. As Kanos said, Mcgillis likely could have won had be been more patient. If he wasn't in such a rush, he wouldn't have offed Karta and tried to kill Gaello. He got a temporary boost but he's now undone by turning his friend into a revenge crazed monster. These guys likely would have supported any changes he wanted to make to the system, but Mcgillis has such a hosed up worldview that he can't see the value in maintaining those relationships. Of course, if Orga hadn't tried to become king of mars so quickly, he could have just kept up with some jobs and working his way up so that he can get out of the mercenary business. EDIT- all in all I still think Mcgillis is a great character. He's clearly undone by the flaws that are set out in his character early on. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 20:15
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Darth Walrus posted:I think that's the fundamental punchline of his character, though. He was never an especially gifted schemer, just a guy who was really great at looking like he ought to be one. He got where he was through sheer audacity, doing things that no sane person would do, and he looked impressive enough, projected enough confidence, and had enough talent in other fields (if nothing else, he was a true genius pilot) that everyone assumed it was part of some grand master plan rather than, well, him being insane. This is pretty much exactly what I came here to say. I actually found McGillis' overall arc quite satisfying. You start out seeing him as the noble young revolutionary prince, out to overthrow the corrupt system with his pure ideals and true heart, and as the show goes on it's increasingly clear that's how he sees himself... because he's living out an elaborate fantasy plan he devised when he was an abused child. And he managed to make it part of the way through - hell, a lot of the way - but he didn't ever stop to re-evaluate the plan, so in the end he's still acting as though he's in a storybook, while Rustal is actually fighting a war. And in war, the lone hero against impossible odds usually just dies. Similarly, he thought that everyone else would bow to him when he got Bael running, because he was still seeing that piece of the future through the eyes of a child. Turns out, the grown-ups didn't want their whole political system overturned by a single symbolic gesture.
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Mar 27, 2017 20:15
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Monaghan posted:It's sort of interesting that Kudelia's take as steady, peaceful change may be the one to ring out, when both Mcgillis and Orga were destroyed by their desire to get to the end point as soon as possible. It's worth remembering that Tekkadan was actually in a pretty decent (if not entirely stable) situation at the start of the second season. Cool toys, impressive reputation, good quality of life for their employees and their families. If they'd just backed off when they heard the Arianrhod Fleet was going after Dawn Horizon, they'd be in a pretty respectable place right now.
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Mar 27, 2017 20:18
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The_White_Crane posted:This is pretty much exactly what I came here to say. Still is worth saying. I liked McGillis' arc very much. Caros posted:Could also be that he has a touch if respect for Gailio. Gailio clearly wanted to deal with the matter himself and wouldn't have been satisfied if some mook had managed to gank McGillis in the back while he was fighting. Status gives you a certain leeway in Rustal's world. It is often noted how few mistakes Rustal made yet he never pushed GallyGally to reveal himself before MCGillis had amassed a sizeable fleet.
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Mar 27, 2017 21:15
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genericnick posted:Status gives you a certain leeway in Rustal's world. It is often noted how few mistakes Rustal made yet he never pushed GallyGally to reveal himself before MCGillis had amassed a sizeable fleet. Letting McGillis form up a fleet is to Rustal's advantage as long as it's still weaker than Arianhrod, because it smokes out all the other starry-eyed idealist revolutionaries within Gjallarhorn and lets him smash them all at once.
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Mar 27, 2017 21:22
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I hope there isn't a direct sequel, but this is a pretty good universe to tell more stories in. Honestly they should play it like they did UC - shift the focus entirely, on a different conflict predicated on how the world changed after a rag-tag group from Mars just about upended the stability of the entire Solar System. Maybe Rustal bites it and doesn't manage to ensure Gjallarhorn recovers from this blow - the show could then focus on the economic blocs it's been holding in check for so long and a conflict among the people there. I'd actually like to see a little more of how life actually is on Earth - we got a very vivid picture of what things are like on Mars but Earth stuff focused primarily on the nobles and very little on the ordinary people.
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Mar 27, 2017 21:31
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