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vanity slug
Jul 20, 2010

Dr.Radical posted:

So then by that metric the UN forces won the Korean War. How is the Korean War taught in China? Let me take a wild guess....

That war isn't over yet.

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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Dr.Radical posted:

How is the Korean War taught in China? Let me take a wild guess....

China defeated the United States. My students so far have been shocked in every class to find out they fought the UN, since they're taught about how wonderful the UN is and how China is a big deal in it.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe
So are the characters for noodles and south africans censored when they're used together?

Dr.Radical
Apr 3, 2011

Jeoh posted:

That war isn't over yet.

Touché

Atlas Hugged
Mar 12, 2007


Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

Jeoh posted:

they killed more vietnamese so that's a victory in my book

What the pho?

kenner116
May 15, 2009

Jeoh posted:

they killed more vietnamese so that's a nguyen in my book

Haier
Aug 10, 2007

by Lowtax

WarpedNaba posted:

But let's face it, so long as the Mainland needs a scapegoat or a distraction, there will never be an end to this.
I love the 8 o'clock news here. It's the international hour and it is about as international as a Sichuanese restaurant in Hunan. There is no actual news that is not China related. The only countries allowed to be named are in direct relationship with China or its history, or somebody said something about China, or visited China. It's an hour of "USA/JAPAN/KOREA SAID/DID THIS, OMG, THOSE loving ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!!!!" combined with some dignitary visiting China and said something, or Chinese government met with some other people and signed a business deal (Africans, usually). The rest of the world does not exist at all, and China is the center of it if it really does exist. There are no reports on X place got an earthquake and 20k people died, or North Korea launched a missile, or a war in some other part of the world. It's just outrage over Korean supermarket chains and the USA driving a boat in open waters. Also that hansurm Canadian leader boy likes China very much and is willing to kiss China peepees.

Ailumao
Nov 4, 2004

big time bisexual posted:

Seems like he preferred romanization since he was ragging on zhuyin and kana here in this essay (scroll down to 8. How to Make Writing Accessible to the Masses).

That's interesting, I hadn't seen that before!

Atlas Hugged
Mar 12, 2007


Put your arms around me,
fiddly digits, itchy britches
I love you all

Well done.

Warbadger
Jun 17, 2006

Grand Fromage posted:

China defeated the United States. My students so far have been shocked in every class to find out they fought the UN, since they're taught about how wonderful the UN is and how China is a big deal in it.

My favorite part is that the UN mission to counter the invasion of South Korea was 100% accomplished. The UN won the war, even if it didn't occupy the North.

Meanwhile North Korea definitely lost (invasion failed), Soviets lost for similar reasons as backers of the invasion, China won or lost depending on whether you believe they entered the war to ensure the survival of a buffer state (successful) or the invasion of the South (unsuccessful).

In reality, though, China still won the war simply by getting rid of little Mao.

mojo1701a
Oct 9, 2008

Oh, yeah. Loud and clear. Emphasis on LOUD!
~ David Lee Roth

Warbadger posted:

My favorite part is that the UN mission to counter the invasion of South Korea was 100% accomplished. The UN won the war, even if it didn't occupy the North.

Meanwhile North Korea definitely lost (invasion failed), Soviets lost for similar reasons as backers of the invasion, China won or lost depending on whether you believe they entered the war to ensure the survival of a buffer state (successful) or the invasion of the South (unsuccessful).

In reality, though, China still won the war simply by getting rid of little Mao.

I remember studying the Korean War for a class and it's mind-boggling how much the front moved in the first year.

Also I'm pretty sure China just wanted a buffer state as they only intervened once the South's forces got within about 100 miles of their border.

Haier
Aug 10, 2007

by Lowtax
Kill the Old, Volume 88:
I went to one of the bakeries I like here. They claim it is all organic, but LOL. Wrong country to be claiming that, dudes. Anyway, I walked in and some older woman was blocking the way. She was standing and holding her bread in a defensive position, and hogging as much space as she could around the cashier. I had to use my shoulder to shove her out of the way so I could get a tray and tongs, and she paid no notice. She was old school.
This bakery is near an elementary school, so at certain times of day there will be raisin people buying unnecessary sweets for black-teethed kids. They are in care of these kids six days a week, and feed them nothing but sugar. Anyway... I noticed she was trying to cut in line in front of about five other people who were waiting in the correct space, and the young cashier wasn't putting up with it. I would say the usual crowd in here are college kids or working young people, and they always form lines and don't do any of the dumb poo poo the olds do.

By the time I had chosen what I wanted and was waiting to pay, I was second in line behind another girl while the old lady was finally paying from her original spot she had defended. The cashier didn't once look at her, and tossed her change at her to pick up.
Soon there were four people in line with their trays on the counter, and there was about a one-foot/30cm space between me and the girl in front. Another old lady saw this as her chance and tried to slide in front me, while very smoothly setting her bread on the space between my tray and the girl's. The logic is that I was a sucker for leaving a gap in the line, and the people in line were bigger suckers because it is so easier to walk to the front of the line.
She took her money out and tried to act casual about it, so I picked up her bread and tossed it to end of the counter passed the two other trays. The cashier noticed. When I was paying, the woman tried to sneak between me and the person behind me, and the cashier asked him if it was his bread and he said no, so she tossed it back where I had, and the old lady again had to go get it. Maybe she is still there as I type this, in an endless loop of cutting and being put at the back of the line.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Haier posted:

Also that hansurm Canadian leader boy likes China very much and is willing to kiss China peepees.

This is 100% spot on though.

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Baronjutter posted:

This is 100% spot on though.

Did they ever get a ballpark figure on how much money various mainland orgs put into the Trudeau foundation?

Steakandchips
Apr 30, 2009

Haier posted:

Kill the Old, Volume 88:
I went to one of the bakeries I like here. They claim it is all organic, but LOL. Wrong country to be claiming that, dudes. Anyway, I walked in and some older woman was blocking the way. She was standing and holding her bread in a defensive position, and hogging as much space as she could around the cashier. I had to use my shoulder to shove her out of the way so I could get a tray and tongs, and she paid no notice. She was old school.
This bakery is near an elementary school, so at certain times of day there will be raisin people buying unnecessary sweets for black-teethed kids. They are in care of these kids six days a week, and feed them nothing but sugar. Anyway... I noticed she was trying to cut in line in front of about five other people who were waiting in the correct space, and the young cashier wasn't putting up with it. I would say the usual crowd in here are college kids or working young people, and they always form lines and don't do any of the dumb poo poo the olds do.

By the time I had chosen what I wanted and was waiting to pay, I was second in line behind another girl while the old lady was finally paying from her original spot she had defended. The cashier didn't once look at her, and tossed her change at her to pick up.
Soon there were four people in line with their trays on the counter, and there was about a one-foot/30cm space between me and the girl in front. Another old lady saw this as her chance and tried to slide in front me, while very smoothly setting her bread on the space between my tray and the girl's. The logic is that I was a sucker for leaving a gap in the line, and the people in line were bigger suckers because it is so easier to walk to the front of the line.
She took her money out and tried to act casual about it, so I picked up her bread and tossed it to end of the counter passed the two other trays. The cashier noticed. When I was paying, the woman tried to sneak between me and the person behind me, and the cashier asked him if it was his bread and he said no, so she tossed it back where I had, and the old lady again had to go get it. Maybe she is still there as I type this, in an endless loop of cutting and being put at the back of the line.

Beautiful.

Patrocclesiastes
Apr 30, 2009

After four months of working for a chinese container liner, I think that I hate the chinese

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Patrocclesiastes posted:

After four months of working for a chinese container liner, I think that I hate the chinese

Stories

snergle
Aug 3, 2013

A kind little mouse!

lottery of babylon is the only person to use this gimmick sucessfully sorry.

LentThem
Aug 31, 2004

90% Retractible

snergle posted:

lottery of babylon is the only person to use this gimmick sucessfully sorry.

oh you mean the gimmick where i quote/post a URL and then in later posts include quotes from that URL, sometimes including quote tags

Blistex
Oct 30, 2003

Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler
Just got back from Pearson International. Picked up my mother in law who flew directly from Shanghai. While waiting for her to clear customs and come out the gate, I counted no less than 8 ~50 year old Chinese ladies (travelling alone) with actual airport Porters pushing those massive luggage trolleys with at least 4 of those massive rolling suitcases and other assorted luggage on top. I'm talking the massive suitcases that automatically count as "oversized luggage" and incur a $200 penalty each. On average they each had 4 of the big suitcases with another two carry-on rolling suitcases, and naturally a purse they were carrying themselves. The record holder had 6 oversized suitcases and 4 carry-on suitcases, and required two porters with two trolleys.

It would be really interesting to compare Boeing 777-300 fuel consumption when doing a mainland to anywhere run, as opposed to one that isn't packed with mainlanders. Just watching the sheer amount of luggage the average person had on that flight must mean they lose a few thousand km's range.

big time bisexual
Oct 16, 2002

Cool Party

Patrocclesiastes posted:

After four months of working for a chinese container liner, I think that I hate the chinese

I thought finns had a natural affinity with other asians. What happened?

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Blistex posted:

Just got back from Pearson International. Picked up my mother in law who flew directly from Shanghai. While waiting for her to clear customs and come out the gate, I counted no less than 8 ~50 year old Chinese ladies (travelling alone) with actual airport Porters pushing those massive luggage trolleys with at least 4 of those massive rolling suitcases and other assorted luggage on top. I'm talking the massive suitcases that automatically count as "oversized luggage" and incur a $200 penalty each. On average they each had 4 of the big suitcases with another two carry-on rolling suitcases, and naturally a purse they were carrying themselves. The record holder had 6 oversized suitcases and 4 carry-on suitcases, and required two porters with two trolleys.

It would be really interesting to compare Boeing 777-300 fuel consumption when doing a mainland to anywhere run, as opposed to one that isn't packed with mainlanders. Just watching the sheer amount of luggage the average person had on that flight must mean they lose a few thousand km's range.

They do keep statistics on such things. For instance airlines charge more for flights to/from Samoa because the people there tend to be massive.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007


Otoh I had one overweight suitcase on an ANA/United codeshare and it turned out the penalty fee is different depending on carrier. United was expecting around $100 but I booked through ANA so it was only $60.
Then they bumped me up to Premium because regular Economy was crammed full of military transfers :peanut:

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

rudatron posted:

Considering their position, they're doing okay

They also demonstrated an ideological flexibility that the US doesn't have, meaning they're not really constrained on what they do - if another country does something that works, they'll copy it

Compare that to the US, where fears of 'socialism' have given them the worst healthcare country in the world, one that spends an incredible amount of money while doing very little

China is destined to run into massive problems, very soon, but so is the US, and unlike the US, China had a strong, legitimate central authority able to coordinate against a crisis, along with a now highly developed industrial base

I don't think party rule is gonna last forever, the inequality and corruption will eventually consume it from the inside, but the US has very similar problems, and its going to run into them sooner.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Grand Fromage posted:

They conquered Tibet in the 1950s if you don't count that as a civil war. Otherwise uh. The Imjin War against Japan at the end of the 1500s was a pretty decisive Ming victory with Korean assistance. I can't think of anything more recent but I'm fuzzy on Chinese military history between that and the later 1700s. The only major conflict in there I know is the Manchu conquest. Other than the marginal case of Tibet I can think of no other Chinese victories that weren't civil war since the 1700s. The Korean War was the closest since they managed a stalemate and achieved their primary objectives of keeping the UN from invading and North Korea intact.
It's amazing that more people don't know about the Xinjiang conquests because its such blatant imperialism when the Chinese are always trying to go ~oh no we were always the victim and never the oppressor~

Patrocclesiastes
Apr 30, 2009

big time bisexual posted:

I thought finns had a natural affinity with other asians. What happened?

Most of time at work is spent fighting chinese corporate bureaucracy and stupid decisions from Shanghai.

Best one was when we complained that we dont have enough capacity for tender cargo and high paying cargo and instead of helping us, Shanghai office cut our capacity so we couldnt even handle the tender cargo.

The stories arent that interesting. The one I got a laugh out of was that one of my Shanghai colleagues calls himself Dong Hunter.

Haier
Aug 10, 2007

by Lowtax

Blistex posted:

Just got back from Pearson International. Picked up my mother in law who flew directly from Shanghai. While waiting for her to clear customs and come out the gate, I counted no less than 8 ~50 year old Chinese ladies (travelling alone) with actual airport Porters pushing those massive luggage trolleys with at least 4 of those massive rolling suitcases and other assorted luggage on top.
It was all instant noodles.

A random rant, but one other side of this is that most Chinese would gladly use a porter for a 1kg bag because it's usually too heavy for them. I can't even count the amount of times I have seen a guy carrying a 2-3kg bag of vegetables in the supermarket and he's leaning into it as if it were 10 times heavier. The women are even worse about it. Yesterday I saw a girl trying to use a shopping cart as far away as possible from the store because she had three of those multi-pack tissue bags, which probably totaled to about 1.5kg. So many people have told me that they take taxis after grocery shopping because they handle carrying it the 300-500m home, and it's like some pathetically small weight.

I am still convinced a vast majority of people in this country have anemia and other nutritional deficiencies, which explains why they are constantly in a state of sloth-like movement, inability to exert any strength, and fiveheaded balding. I know it's also cultural to cut as many corners as possible in any physical activity, but it comes to a point where physical weakness is standard on a grand scale. "Eat more rice."

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I think there's also some cultural thing where feminine = weak and a lot of asian women seem to avoid all physical exercise because they might gain a muscle and muscles are not a thing women should have, just be skinny. I notice a lot of them will shuffle their feet and have horrible posture. This seems specially strong with japanese ladies to the point that they want deformed legs because that's so cute and being weak and clumsy is sexy??? I remember a friend from Hong Kong seeing some women working out through the window of a gym and just being disgusted at it saying they're going to get gross fat muscles and working out is really bad for you, just starve your self to get skinny like a normal person!! She kept pushing me for a reaction/agreement and asking me what I ended up just telling her I really prefer people with some healthy muscle mass/shape and working out is actually really good for you. She got upset and defensive and said I was into fat girls and would bring this up often as I clearly had a weird fetish for body builders and fats.

But even if I can't see the hair or anything, I can usually always tell when a lady ahead of me on the sidewalk is chinese (like actually from asia, no born here) because of the way they move and general posture stuff. Like they always seem ready to fall over because they're exhausted or sick or wasting away and ready to snap in half at the slightest breeze. Chinese men past a certain age all have a distinct waddle as well that gets super pronounced once the hands go behind the back.

it's interesting the little things you end up picking up on and how cultural differences and beauty standards can effect how we move and stand.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Mar 28, 2017

Haier
Aug 10, 2007

by Lowtax
Flexibility, huh? I see... Yes, with copying IP so they can make money.

China has even worse health care than the US, but don't tell these idiots that. The fact that you have to bribe your surgeon or doctor to do anything is standard, and the doctors will still often fail because they don't give a poo poo and/or don't have training. Where was that article saying only 17% of medical staff ever went to school for it?
Every bit of medical advice in a hospital is related to traditional medicine mumbo jumbo voodoo. Most people's "free healthcare" is something like 2000 RMB per year, which amounts to nothing because hospitals are businesses here and do any unnecessary test to drain people of their money as much as possible. You have a cough from pollution? Chest X-Ray! You get headaches because of stress and the fact tha you consume about 200ml of water per week? MRI! You don't feel good? Stay in our hospital bed for 3 weeks at our daily rate, and we'll make sure you get so sick that then you'll really need to be there, and you can pay us more.
When the "doctors" wherever you go prescribe antibiotics for headaches or the flu... you come to a point where WebMD is far better and safer, and the fact that you can buy anything in pharmacy without prescription means you can still use WebMD to cure you and not worry about dying so much.

Poop Girl's mom was talked into going twice per week for X-Rays (yep, two loving X-Rays per week) when she broke her leg. It costed them about $800 USD cash per week. They kept her in the hospital for a month and did as many useless tests as they could on her, plus an IV (for a month). There were so many stupid things they did, but in the end the family was broke.

Most Chinese will completely avoid the hospital because they will never have money to pay for it, so they go to internet-trained pharmacists and shaman TCM doctors to "cure" their ills. That friend I had before had serious breast cancer, but was talked into taking some green pills by a TCM "doctor" and was convinced they would dissolve the cancer in her. She was so convinced that she set out to find a husband and get married and start a brand new life, cancer-free. All of her siblings had died of some form of cancer already, because "doctors" had given the same advice. Take some pills, drink some tea, be cancer-free. By the time we stopped talking she had already had to quit her job because of the pain. I am 100% sure this is the year she will die.

Chinese healthcare is the biggest loving joke, and there would be thousands of essay-type posts about how lovely it is. I have told everyone here that if I need a hospital, I am getting on a one-way ticket out of here to practically anywhere else. I am not putting my life in the hands of a god damned Chinese doctor.

EDIT: Doctors here, Western or TCM, get profits from each useless thing and procedure they sell, so the idea of healthcare is directly related to personally lining your doctor's pockets and your life and health is maybe like 4-5 on the list of important things a doctor gives a poo poo about.

Haier fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Mar 28, 2017

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



I don't know about China/HK/Worst Korea, but for women in Japan vulnerability and helplessness are seen as a desirable sexual trait.

hakimashou
Jul 15, 2002
Upset Trowel
the 5000 years of civilized way of walking involves clapping your hands first in front of you then behind you as you stagger around like a drunk, stopping and changing directions at random

I wonder if ghoosts are like snipers and will get you if you walk in straight lines, so you've gotta always be "serpentining."

LentThem
Aug 31, 2004

90% Retractible

Haier posted:

A random rant, but one other side of this is that most Chinese would gladly use a porter for a 1kg bag because it's usually too heavy for them. I can't even count the amount of times I have seen a guy carrying a 2-3kg bag of vegetables in the supermarket and he's leaning into it as if it were 10 times heavier. The women are even worse about it. Yesterday I saw a girl trying to use a shopping cart as far away as possible from the store because she had three of those multi-pack tissue bags, which probably totaled to about 1.5kg. So many people have told me that they take taxis after grocery shopping because they handle carrying it the 300-500m home, and it's like some pathetically small weight.

I am still convinced a vast majority of people in this country have anemia and other nutritional deficiencies, which explains why they are constantly in a state of sloth-like movement, inability to exert any strength, and fiveheaded balding. I know it's also cultural to cut as many corners as possible in any physical activity, but it comes to a point where physical weakness is standard on a grand scale. "Eat more rice."

I blame it on the panda-style obsession with most of your consumption coming from low quality white rice, peanut/sesame oil, and very little water

But can we talk about bags for a minute? I don't know if Shenzhen is the same, but everywhere in Shanghai people are constantly using those stupid wheeled suitcases that are only knee-high and barely hold anything. 3 t-shirts is too heavy to wear on my back, I need to wheel it around.


This photo is a train station but I see them all the time in subways and on the road. But even in a train station, how can they have so few things to take on what is presumably longer than an overnight trip? The wheels probably weigh more than whatever is in side the bag.

But even dragging a wheeled bag can be really tiring, thankfully someone found a solution! Can you guess what country he is from?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/suitcase-scooter-article-1.1809540

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

LentThem posted:

But can we talk about bags for a minute? I don't know if Shenzhen is the same, but everywhere in Shanghai people are constantly using those stupid wheeled suitcases that are only knee-high and barely hold anything. 3 t-shirts is too heavy to wear on my back, I need to wheel it around.


This photo is a train station but I see them all the time in subways and on the road. But even in a train station, how can they have so few things to take on what is presumably longer than an overnight trip? The wheels probably weigh more than whatever is in side the bag.

I take one of those as my only luggage for 8-10 day business trips all the time. A well made one can fit a ton of clothes in it, including a second pair of shoes. I'm not sure if those ones are any good, but it's pretty easy to go for more than a week in them. Plus, they are small enough that they can be placed in the overhead compartment of most airplanes, making immigration and customs far faster.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Travelling with no check baggage is absolutely the way to go. The last few big international trips we've done we've done with just 2 backpacks and 2 smaller bags which is what they'll let you carry-on. Of course my wife is a slav which means any time we visit family we take a one-way bag filled with gifts, but it's awesome because the lack of any space means we can say no to all the well meaning but ridiculous gifts they try to get us to take. And when you're on your way home you just want to get home and not gently caress around with baggage, specially if you have like 3+ customs zones to deal with. Traveling light is so liberating. Your hotel/airbnb will have basic poo poo and access to laundry, all you need are a few changes of clothes and you're set.

big time bisexual
Oct 16, 2002

Cool Party

Baronjutter posted:

I remember a friend from Hong Kong seeing some women working out through the window of a gym and just being disgusted at it saying they're going to get gross fat muscles and working out is really bad for you, just starve your self to get skinny like a normal person!! She kept pushing me for a reaction/agreement and asking me what I ended up just telling her I really prefer people with some healthy muscle mass/shape and working out is actually really good for you.

Any woman not a waif gets labeled as a 大山婆 in HK.

quote:

She got upset and defensive and said I was into fat girls and would bring this up often as I clearly had a weird fetish for body builders and fats.

lol show her the comments people leave on this instagram account.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Uhg, disgusting, I bet she weighs THREE FIGURES like a fat canadian pig girl.

mrbotus
Apr 7, 2009

Patron of the Pants

Haier posted:

Flexibility, huh? I see... Yes, with copying IP so they can make money.

China has even worse health care than the US, but don't tell these idiots that.

...

Chinese healthcare is the biggest loving joke, and there would be thousands of essay-type posts about how lovely it is. I have told everyone here that if I need a hospital, I am getting on a one-way ticket out of here to practically anywhere else. I am not putting my life in the hands of a god damned Chinese doctor.

EDIT: Doctors here, Western or TCM, get profits from each useless thing and procedure they sell, so the idea of healthcare is directly related to personally lining your doctor's pockets and your life and health is maybe like 4-5 on the list of important things a doctor gives a poo poo about.

I remember reading a Quora (lol) answer to a question about how Chinese healthcare system compares to western ones. It was written by a rich Scandinavian guy living in Shanghai who claimed he didn't have to wait for anything! All on top of quality, professional care!


LentThem posted:

But even dragging a wheeled bag can be really tiring, thankfully someone found a solution! Can you guess what country he is from?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/suitcase-scooter-article-1.1809540



Last summer, a place I was working at had a customer who had made one of those from a plastic ice cooler.

raton
Jul 28, 2003

by FactsAreUseless

hakimashou posted:

the 5000 years of civilized way of walking involves clapping your hands first in front of you then behind you as you stagger around like a drunk, stopping and changing directions at random

I wonder if ghoosts are like snipers and will get you if you walk in straight lines, so you've gotta always be "serpentining."

Supposedly the reason for these bridges is that ghosts cannot cross them easily because they are not straight so maybe you're right.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0IIblQD3Os&t=744s

JacksAngryBiome
Oct 23, 2014

Yorkshire Pudding posted:

I don't know about China/HK/Worst Korea, but for women in Japan vulnerability and helplessness are seen as a desirable sexual trait.

Huh? Where are you in Japan/what kind of Japanese people are you hanging out with?

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WarpedNaba
Feb 8, 2012

Being social makes me swell!

big time bisexual posted:

Any woman not a waif gets labeled as a 大山婆 in HK.

'Waifs not waifus' sounds like a programme to get hikis back into the breeding pool.

Baronjutter posted:

Uhg, disgusting, I bet she weighs THREE FIGURES like a fat canadian pig girl.

I'unno, 100+ kg is kinda crossing it.

WarpedNaba fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Mar 28, 2017

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