Angry Grimace posted:

The reason why they work this way is because if you tried to implement them as actually returning cards to play you run into a lot of unintended synergy, e.g. you're basically putting Flashback on creatures (that is exactly what Embalm is) but the main difference is that since Flashback only appears on cards that can't become permanents and by rule exile themselves when cast for Flashback, there's not a ton of space for looping bullshit.

The way they've implemented Embalm retains a lot of the Flashback characteristics in that it makes a permanent without giving you a ton of ground for recurrence bullshit (which is the primary concern with putting Flashback on a creature). This solution doesn't synergise with Emerge upon reanimation (meaning you can emerge the base creature, but not the reanimated version), doesn't interact with Prized Amalgam, and doesn't let you flicker cards for value.

It's a mechanic that has a lot of potential to break and this solution, while not the most elegant answer in the world, prevents a LOT of shenanigans.

Angry Grimace posted:

...why would it? Relentless Dead has no inherent synergy with Embalm.

Lottery of Babylon posted:

They could have just done the same "exile it when it leaves the battlefield" thing that Unearth did to prevent infinite recursion. I guess the logic is that there would be memory issues, but it's not like the little "Embalm" markers from the punch-out card wouldn't take care of that already.

Lottery of Babylon posted:

They could have just done the same "exile it when it leaves the battlefield" thing that Unearth did to prevent infinite recursion.

TheTofuShop posted:

except that text you suggest allows you to use eldrazi displacer and the like to make it possible to repeat it over and over.

odiv posted:

And between opponent and player.

FordCQC posted:

Heh, the White Zombie set. Does every box come with a single of More Human than Human?

Lottery of Babylon posted:

Then maybe a card from BFZ block that isn't Gideon might actually have a shot at seeing play for a couple months. (Wasn't Amonkhet designed under the assumption that it wouldn't share standard with Displacer anyhow?)

I dunno, it just feels like a clunkier mechanic than it needs to be. It gets rid of the actual creature card while making something that's almost identical (to the point where the little punch-out "Embalmed" tokens seem to be for letting you represent the token with the card itself), and the way it modifies the card characteristics is oddly inconsistent (it's a zombie in addition to it's other types but white instead of its other colors; contrast all the cards that say "It's a black zombie in addition to its other types and colors" where it treats both characteristics the same). It'll still play really well because it's basically Flashback and Flashback is the best mechanic, but it feels like there should have been a much cleaner solution than "Dig through a pile of 25 different tokens."

TwistedNails posted:

You've seen literally 1 card with embalm, and it was a white card with a white token. What are you getting so worked up about? How is a white cards token being white inconsistent?

quote:

And now that it's all service, all the time and doesn't care about whatever it was it cared about while alive, it's white instead of whatever color it used to be.

its me glenda posted:

masterpiece series this block are sorceries apparently. gonna laugh if damnation is one of em

evilweasel posted:

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Isn't this actually a relevant upside that lets you put it on an opponent's creature? Maybe they just wanted to give players that option.

AceClown posted:

just going back to the starter plainswalker deck chat from a couple of pages ago, but if loving amazes me that the plainswalkers are poo poo for the reason of "we know we'd sell a poo poo load of these if we put good cards in them and we can't have people wanting to buy our product"

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Isn't this actually a relevant upside that lets you put it on an opponent's creature? Maybe they just wanted to give players that option.

Eikre posted:

It would be if it weren't for the other real functional change that nobody's pointed out, which is that Keen Sense had a triggered ability, whereas Sixth Sense conveys a triggered ability upon enchanted creature.

AceClown posted:

just going back to the starter plainswalker deck chat from a couple of pages ago, but if loving amazes me that the plainswalkers are poo poo for the reason of "we know we'd sell a poo poo load of these if we put good cards in them and we can't have people wanting to buy our product"

TheChirurgeon posted:

Willeh posted:

Can't wait to confuse +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters in limited

Siivola posted:

I think Maro's gone on record saying that they only use one or the other within a block because of that.

Sickening posted:

Also a psa, I imagine relentless dead is about to get some heavy speculation due to the zombie theme. I would point to drana spikes in recent memory.

If for some reason you just love zombies and haven't bought them yet this is the last time a playset is going to cost you less than 20 bucks for a while. I don't know if its even going to be good if zombies are good due to the double black but who knows. If you own some I would keep them in a sleeve and trade them bitches when it spikes at 20.

Siivola posted:

While I do wish precon products were actually any good, I can only imagine stores selling out of intro product because of hoarding nerds is kind of a pain in the rear end for everyone involved.

Eikre posted:

Yep, beat me while I was writing words.



I don't get that poo poo. Why is this any different from confusing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters in constructed?

People will either arrive prepared, or they won't. If they do, then they'll know to bring two colors of glass bead. If they don't, then they're still hosed for good play pieces and have to tear up pieces of paper like a savage or exchange a dollar for a fistful of pennies, and in those cases they can either write on them or use heads and tails for positive and negative, respectively.

Siivola posted:

Why would anyone crack packs if they sold good cards in a box?

ThePeavstenator posted:

honestly if you don't bring a $100 deckbox with 20 compartments, stainless steel dice, 100 tokens of each type you may need, enough paper to run an office for a year, and a completely unsleeved T1 deck then you probably shouldn't be playing magic

Eikre posted:

Yep, beat me while I was writing words.



I don't get that poo poo. Why is this any different from confusing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters in constructed?

People will either arrive prepared, or they won't. If they do, then they'll know to bring two colors of glass bead. If they don't, then they're still hosed for good play pieces and have to tear up pieces of paper like a savage or exchange a dollar for a fistful of pennies, and in those cases they can either write on them or use heads and tails for positive and negative, respectively.

PJOmega posted:

Are FNM sanctioned drafts supposed to provide land?