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So is the patch out yet? It seems like if they rework some of the animations and dialogue, and maybe reorder some of the levels, this could be an alright show. What I mean to say is that it is 2017 and this is Netflix. There is no reason a show needs to stand as released. Send this beta back for rewrites and reshoots.
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Mar 28, 2017 02:31
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Gyges posted:Once you've got magic zombie ninjas fighting a blind ninja and his future acquaintances, the bullet proof man and the superhumanly strong women, the magic dragon who gets punched line of believability has already been passed. I mean, magic kung fu heaven in an alternate dimension where a young boy learns to harness his chi and make his fist glow with an awesome power is by itself well past the realm of a single dragon cameo. Eh, I can't really see how anything from the previous Netflix shows (or even anything in IF itself that was actually shown onscreen and not merely talked about) is on at all the same level of fantastical-ness as literal dragons or an extradimensional mystical city full of superpowered magical martial arts masters. In any case, if Marvel Television wasn't able and willing to tackle that tonal difference head-on (and it certainly seems like they weren't), they'd have been better off not adapting the character at all and instead using, say, Shang-Chi or Moon Knight as the fourth property in the Defenders package. Hell, on a basic storytelling level, they'd have been better off excising the supernatural elements entirely and turning the character into a guy who got his powers from sticking his fist into a vat of radioactive waste than the "talk endlessly about the supernatural elements while showing as little of them as possible" compromise they went with.
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Mar 28, 2017 02:42
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Snak posted:Man of Tai Chi is a pretty good martial arts tournament film. Keanu directs it and plays the villain. Yeah, I watched that one last year. Twice.
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Mar 28, 2017 02:45
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Barry Convex posted:Eh, I can't really see how anything from the previous Netflix shows (or even anything in IF itself that was actually shown onscreen and not merely talked about) is on at all the same level of fantastical-ness as literal dragons or an extradimensional mystical city full of superpowered magical martial arts masters. Hmm I thought it was pretty fantastical in Luke Cage when the Harlem community supported and were made to feel safe by a plan to arm cops with super-powered bullets made by a company whose CEO went to prison for empowering a terrorist to attack the Stark Expo.
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Mar 28, 2017 02:53
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WillyTheNewGuy posted:Hmm I thought it was pretty fantastical in Luke Cage when the Harlem community supported and were made to feel safe by a plan to arm cops with super-powered bullets made by a company whose CEO went to prison for empowering a terrorist to attack the Stark Expo. lol, you might have a point there Really, there were a bunch of weird things going on with Luke Cage's racial/class politics, like how he was turned from a kid who grew up in the ghetto and was betrayed and framed by one of his fellow gang members into a middle-class black kid who worked in law enforcement and was framed via never-specified means for a never-specified crime. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 03:04
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SHOAH NUFF posted:Rand walking into the dojo and yelling at all the students was a really embarrassing scene for the show, Rand actor, and everyone involved Also calling a class full of black and brown kids "chattering monkeys" is kind of racist.
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Mar 28, 2017 03:07
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I finished this last night and it's not just bad, it's offensively bad. It's offensive because they have this amazing world to play in and do nothing. Absolutely nothing. I was enjoying it at first. The first couple of episodes I couldn't understand why the hate. I was enjoying homeless Danny. I wasn't sold on the boring corporate takeover stock and shares business, because I'm not watching a show called THE IRON FIST to watch business meetings. I was intrigued how that was going to work out and then Harold just GIVES him the company. This is never really explained and doesn't make sense. We have characters saying that they have to kill someone, then another character who has never killed anyone saying no you can't for whatever reason, so I will because why not I guess. Then another character saying what the gently caress are you talking about. We have a character saying I need to talk to you somewhere more private, and they go behind a counter. Every scene in the mountains looks incredible fake. That's snow? Really? Danny and Colleen doing tai chi and their hands are just shaking all over the place cos they've clearly never done it before. Why does Davos have a bloody English accent mate? Danny beat a dragon but can't beat up a security guard without a struggle? You loving kidding me sunshine? We're supposed to be devastated that the ancient city has disappeared despite never having seen it because they didn't have the budget. Danny's teacher shows up as an imaginary figure in one episode which might lead to a greater understanding of his true father figure but is never seen again. The fight scenes are. loving. Awful. There's a cut. After. Every. Move. Because. No. One. Can. Fight. This show, and Luke Cage too, fail because the makers fail at the most basic of screenwriting tenements, and that is have a GREAT BAD GUY. At first I thought the bad guy was Ward, then maybe not cos it looks like it's Gao. Now Bukatu or whoever shows up and oh he's gone, no turns out it's really Harold. It's like when Cottonmouth dies halfway through and we get a new bad guy. HAVE A loving DECENT BAD GUY THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE SHOW, IT'S NOT HARD. LOOK AT JESSICA JONES! What the gently caress was Joy even doing. Why does she want Danny to die now, after meeting a random man. This show makes no SENSE.
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Mar 28, 2017 03:52
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If he didn't literally fight a dragon and touch its heart, he's not the Iron Fist. Period. They picked Iron Fist. They said, "We're gonna do these 4 things". Except that 4th one, that's too crazy. Just make some boring poo poo instead. Put a flashlight behind his hand so it shines through. And also just put the kung fu in the intro sequence so people get their fix there.
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Mar 28, 2017 03:59
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Alan_Shore posted:What the gently caress was Joy even doing. Why does she want Danny to die now, after meeting a random man. Joy had a pretty decent bead on her life until Danny shows up and then it's a never ending siege of weird, hosed up poo poo. Like her dad comes back from the dead, then he dies again, and ninjas shot her, and life was so much easier with her cabinet full of m&ms and a brother with a low grade addiction problem. So obviously Danny's got to die.
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Mar 28, 2017 03:59
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howe_sam posted:Joy had a pretty decent bead on her life until Danny shows up and then it's a never ending siege of weird, hosed up poo poo. Like her dad comes back from the dead, then he dies again, and ninjas shot her, and life was so much easier with her cabinet full of m&ms and a brother with a low grade addiction problem. So obviously Danny's got to die. That's quite a leap, considering her dad faking his death had nothing to do with Danny and ninjas shot her because of her dad. If she decided to kill her dad or Ward, that might make sense. But nothing that bad happened to her to justify killing anyone, let alone Danny. Seriously I thought she'd be an important character, but she just falls by the wayside and doesn't even see Danny for about 7 episodes. It's garbage writing.
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Mar 28, 2017 04:27
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Alan_Shore posted:and then Harold just GIVES him the company. This is never really explained and doesn't make sense. It isn't explained incredibly clearly but my take is Harold saw an ally in Danny and businessman Harold only speaks the language of $$ and power so he figured giving Danny those gets him to his side to fight The Hand. Otherwise I completely agree with your assessment. This series sucked hard, and the last 2-3 decent episodes doesn't excuse the rest of the poo poo.
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Mar 28, 2017 04:28
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Harold: So you're the Iron Fist? Sworn enemy of The Hand? I'd better give you the company, so that you'll want to defeat The Hand! Danny: But I want to defeat them anyway. Harold: You're now the king of the company! Danny: I need to center my chi.
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Mar 28, 2017 04:48
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Why does Davos have a English accent. That's something weird i never noticed. I am rewatchin all of the Netflix series and goddamn Luke Cage is so good. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 05:00
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RareAcumen posted:I finally figured out what I want. (Not having any experience with the character) I want the Iron Fist to be extremely confusing to everyone by doing Kung-Fu poo poo that's one step away from actual magic. Like bicycle kicks and poo poo. I want an entire series full of stuff like when he tapped that taxi and cartwheeled through the air to avoid being hit by it. This would have been great. Just make it like 70s/80s wire work. It looks totally unrealistic, then ground it all in this super realistic world and have the view draw the implication that Kun'Lun trained monks is where this stuff drew their inspiration from. Like have Danny fly through the air and kick a guy in the chest 7 times, blackflip off him and lightly step on the heads of 3 other people. Then show people who live in the real world reacting to his insane bullshit. Go all out on cheesy kung fu impossible. Don't make any of the action scenes a struggle, make them all easy and fun as he whoops total rear end of anyone he comes across and make his problems be totally unrelated to kung fu, poo poo he can't solve with his iron fist. Rather than repeatedly getting his face punched in by randoms. There are so many ways to have made this a better show.
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Mar 28, 2017 05:00
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^^^ Yes exactly this. Throw in some 36th Chamber/Goku level training, a loving Buddhist Monk running one of the most powerful corporations on the planet and all the fun "Yeah gently caress those corporate dicks!" kind of childlike innocence. I would have even accepted a total 80's style mall shopping montage for the clothing change. Make it goofy/fun and awesome like Kung Fury-ish, or incredibly bad rear end at kung fu, being a CEO with Buddhist ideals and wisdom, with awesome special effects or maybe on location set pieces or something. The part when they "Went to China" I totally forgot about because that scene is just them in a plane, Claire's SUV somehow, then an alley near warehouses with sand instead of asphalt. By the way, did they just tie up Gao in China, transport her in the SUV, then the plane, then on a trip back to New York and into Colleens dojo, all while tied up and met with zero resistance until the DEA busted in? notthegoatseguy posted:It isn't explained incredibly clearly but my take is Harold saw an ally in Danny and businessman Harold only speaks the language of $$ and power so he figured giving Danny those gets him to his side to fight The Hand. The fact we all saw the same thing, but still all saw something that was different and bad about the show says a lot. It just seems like there should be a director's cut out there somewhere where it really is the series we hoped it was. Like someone had the genius idea to edit it in the worst way possible in order to make cool callbacks, and references in season 2. Kabuki Shipoopi fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 05:06
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hooman posted:This would have been great. Just make it like 70s/80s wire work. It looks totally unrealistic, then ground it all in this super realistic world and have the view draw the implication that Kun'Lun trained monks is where this stuff drew their inspiration from. Yo, I would watch this.
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Mar 28, 2017 05:17
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hooman posted:This would have been great. Just make it like 70s/80s wire work. It looks totally unrealistic, then ground it all in this super realistic world and have the view draw the implication that Kun'Lun trained monks is where this stuff drew their inspiration from. I mean, make the fights a struggle still, but only.because he's fighting.like.8 minibosses at.once (Nobu, that knife guy who nearly killed Karen, etc.) But still keep Gao as a brick wall for him just for laughs. Also this conversation has made.me realize I can't name any Marvel people.beyond Doctor Strange.who.use.magic. Sorry about all the periods, phone posting.
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Mar 28, 2017 05:25
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Even if invincible, he'd still have challenges with:
Plus, what is he even doing there? He's just a sentry that got bored and wandered off.
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Mar 28, 2017 06:11
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Barry Convex posted:Eh, I can't really see how anything from the previous Netflix shows (or even anything in IF itself that was actually shown onscreen and not merely talked about) is on at all the same level of fantastical-ness as literal dragons or an extradimensional mystical city full of superpowered magical martial arts masters. Magic poo poo that we seen on screen in Iron Fist(no statement on the quality of presentation):
Magic poo poo that is just too much for the delicate sensibilities of the Marvel Netflix viewer but is nevertheless still implied:
Hollismason posted:Why does Davos have a English accent. That's something weird i never noticed. Nobody learns English as a 2nd language with an American or Canadian accent. It's always British, especially if you're from a magical city that sometimes lies between two countries with a history of massive British colonial involvement.
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Mar 28, 2017 06:11
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:
I was too busy wondering what happened to Gao's powers to think about all that.
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Mar 28, 2017 06:24
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Gyges posted:Magic poo poo that we seen on screen in Iron Fist(no statement on the quality of presentation): If K'un L'un was ever actually shown onscreen, I certainly don't remember it, and the eyes are as token a nod as they could have gotten without excising Shao-Lao from his origin entirely. Everything else is on the same level of fantastical-ness as the Hand stuff in DD or marginally more so, aside from the glowy fist itself, which the show makes a point of using very sparingly and which it only manages to build one decent FX shot around. Bottom line, the series consistently did as little as an Iron Fist origin adaptation possibly could have done with the supernatural elements, short of going the toxic waste origin route I semi-facetiously suggested. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 06:37
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It's worth noting that there are lots of things that were originally magic in the comics that were made mutant powers in their more mainstream adaptions. Like Juggernaut's power, for example. Original it was granted by a magic gem. In the movie, it's a mutant power.
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Mar 28, 2017 06:38
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Does anyone know just how far in advance they planned this whole Defenders thing? Because bringing the Hand in for Daredevil was already begging the mysticism question before Danny even showed up, it seems pretty lame to go "oh that would've been too much" when we already had demon children and zombie ninjas for two seasons before his show even aired.
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Mar 28, 2017 07:34
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McSpanky posted:Does anyone know just how far in advance they planned this whole Defenders thing? Because bringing the Hand in for Daredevil was already begging the mysticism question before Danny even showed up, it seems pretty lame to go "oh that would've been too much" when we already had demon children and zombie ninjas for two seasons before his show even aired. The initial announcement for the 4 series and then the teamup was back in 2013.
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Mar 28, 2017 07:46
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It's dumb anyway. Daredevil is loving BLIND and is a better fighter than literally any person in reality and he functional can't be killed. Kingpin, a guy who is like 300lbs of muscle, beat him in the head with a steel rod. An Immortal blind dude ninja isn't any less magic than Iron Fist. How does Daredevil survive his should-be-fatal injuries? He meditates the way another blind white guy ninja taught him. There's nothing mystical about him, he just SEES A WORLD ON FIRE. science.
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Mar 28, 2017 07:46
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RareAcumen posted:I mean, make the fights a struggle still, but only.because he's fighting.like.8 minibosses at.once (Nobu, that knife guy who nearly killed Karen, etc.) Never heard of Juggernaut? (Maybe Baron Mordo?)
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Mar 28, 2017 09:09
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Samizdata posted:Never heard of Juggernaut? Every appearance of Juggernaut I've ever seen just has him running into things so that's news to me.
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Mar 28, 2017 10:11
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Yeah, his power is because of magic. Which kinda makes more sense than a mutation allowing the laws of physics to be broken...
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Mar 28, 2017 10:29
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I really liked the short clip of 1950s Iron First beating the hell out of the soldiers. It really drives home how lovely Danny is at all this.
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Mar 28, 2017 10:31
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RareAcumen posted:I mean, make the fights a struggle still, but only.because he's fighting.like.8 minibosses at.once (Nobu, that knife guy who nearly killed Karen, etc.) Dr. Doom
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Mar 28, 2017 10:32
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Also Scarlet Witch.
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Mar 28, 2017 11:04
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counterfeitsaint posted:I really liked the short clip of 1950s Iron First beating the hell out of the soldiers. It really drives home how lovely Danny is at all this. I liked it because, at 16 seconds, it was probably the longest continuous shot for any fight all season.
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Mar 28, 2017 12:57
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RareAcumen posted:I mean, make the fights a struggle still, but only.because he's fighting.like.8 minibosses at.once (Nobu, that knife guy who nearly killed Karen, etc.) I mean, there's literally a character named Magik.
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Mar 28, 2017 13:10
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About kidnapping Gao- I'm reasonably sure that if it's a private corporate jet landing at a private airstrip it wouldn't have to go through passport control/airport security.
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Mar 28, 2017 13:11
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MrJacobs posted:Dr. Doom Forgot about him. Doctor Spaceman posted:Also Scarlet Witch. And her. Saint Freak posted:I mean, there's literally a character named Magik. Never heard of him. I mean, I said I can't name any beyond Dr. Strange, not that I've never seen any. Snak posted:Yeah, his power is because of magic. Well, I always thought he was just large and had super strength so nothing really seemed out of place beyond the normal fantastical element of super strength in general. I mean, he's usually around a guy who controls metal by looking at it and a shapeshifter.
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Mar 28, 2017 13:56
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Alan_Shore posted:This show, and Luke Cage too, fail because the makers fail at the most basic of screenwriting tenements, and that is have a GREAT BAD GUY. At first I thought the bad guy was Ward, then maybe not cos it looks like it's Gao. Now Bukatu or whoever shows up and oh he's gone, no turns out it's really Harold. It's like when Cottonmouth dies halfway through and we get a new bad guy. I don't think it needed a great bad guy if the environment or the hero's own demons and perspective are obstacle enough (cf. Legion). A man presumed dead and returning to New York with a 4th grade education, a sense of self-doubt, and many groups trying to use him doesn't need Mysterio McVillain to struggle against if the show's done right.
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Mar 28, 2017 14:00
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Do they even ever say what happened to the previous Iron Fist. Seems like a glaring omission.
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Mar 28, 2017 15:11
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Iron Fisting works like the speed force and he's still out there using it which is why Danny can't access all of the power.
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Mar 28, 2017 15:14
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Hollismason posted:Do they even ever say what happened to the previous Iron Fist. Seems like a glaring omission. He unclenched
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Mar 28, 2017 15:23
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counterfeitsaint posted:I really liked the short clip of 1950s Iron First beating the hell out of the soldiers. It really drives home how lovely Danny is at all this. It's really sad that some background stunt work that was made to look lovely and cut away as much as possible was the best fight sequence.
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Mar 28, 2017 15:37
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