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I've been reading this thread pretty closely for the past year or two (and can't thank the main contributors enough), but, admittedly, I haven't paid as much attention to the questions regarding location changes. So, my apologies if this treads over old ground. I am interviewing for position in a higher cost of living area (~14%). The president and COO are old colleagues that I have a great relationship with and who have basically told me they want to get me on the team. Additionally, I had actually interviewed with them last year and was made a decent offer for a position lower than the current one in question - the idea being the lower level position could eventually turn into this current one. At that time my spouse and I found out we were going to have a little one on the way so we decided the timing wasn't right. I have a decent BANTA in staying at what has become a very well paying position in my current low cost of living area but this opportunity would be a great step up in title and salary. Here's the catch, the reporting structure of the position is still being hammered out. If it reports directly to the President I have already talked over compensation with my old colleagues and it would be stellar (thanks negotiation thread!). However, if it's structured through the IT department then the salary is covered by a different business entity and might not have as prestigious of a title. I would also have to negotiate with the hiring manager over there (likely with some advocacy from my colleagues). My question is such: this thread has taught me to really base your ask on your skills, experience, value added to the company, etc. In this case, is it wise or helpful to also add the increased salary requirements based on the increase in cost of living? In other words, it becomes a 'secondary' reason as to why you are asking for the number you are. My gut tells me 'no' but given the prior relationships with top administration, I'm not sure if I can throw that reason on the pile as justify my ask. Thanks in advance!
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Mar 9, 2017 19:59
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Fireside Nut posted:My question is such: this thread has taught me to really base your ask on your skills, experience, value added to the company, etc. In this case, is it wise or helpful to also add the increased salary requirements based on the increase in cost of living? In other words, it becomes a 'secondary' reason as to why you are asking for the number you are. I work remotely and have worked remotely in some regard since 2005, so this is what I do that works for me: If someone wants you to move to a higher COL area to work with them give them a choice between compensating you more for COL differences, or working with you to work remotely so the COL of where they choose to work doesn't affect you. In general you're absolutely right that you want to focus on what you can bring to the table and not on your own needs when negotiating. I think that COL is different because they are imposing costs on your life both in and outside of work by requiring you show up to a physical location on a day to day basis. Your compensation should reflect that imposition: if it's important they need to cover the cost, if it's not important then they need to work with you to avoid the cost.
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Mar 9, 2017 20:33
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:I work remotely and have worked remotely in some regard since 2005, so this is what I do that works for me: If someone wants you to move to a higher COL area to work with them give them a choice between compensating you more for COL differences, or working with you to work remotely so the COL of where they choose to work doesn't affect you. Your advice is always so valuable - can't thank you enough. This position isn't compatible with remote work (unfortunately) so it looks like I'm all in for building my number around the increased COL. My guess would be that when it comes to providing your number during negotiation it would make sense to explicitly state in very clear terms the percentage or amount of the overall number that accounts for the increased COL?
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Mar 9, 2017 21:07
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:I work remotely and have worked remotely in some regard since 2005, so this is what I do that works for me: If someone wants you to move to a higher COL area to work with them give them a choice between compensating you more for COL differences, or working with you to work remotely so the COL of where they choose to work doesn't affect you. This is a good question as my wife and I are debating a possible move from Florida to the SF Bay Area in CA. There's a huge COL difference. My job is working from home and traveling, so essentially it doesn't matter where I work. Should I expect my employer to understand that when I bring up a possible move, or in general do people have to fight for a raise to move to a higher COL area even though I'd be doing the same job?
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Mar 11, 2017 04:53
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My company has a corporate policy that CA and AK are on different pay scales relative to the rest of the locations (WA, TX, ND, UT).
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Mar 11, 2017 05:14
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Cacafuego posted:This is a good question as my wife and I are debating a possible move from Florida to the SF Bay Area in CA. There's a huge COL difference. My job is working from home and traveling, so essentially it doesn't matter where I work. Should I expect my employer to understand that when I bring up a possible move, or in general do people have to fight for a raise to move to a higher COL area even though I'd be doing the same job? If you're moving to SF of your own volition, you'll have to make an argument. I think most people would tell you no unless you had stellar reasons why they should give you a raise even without moving.
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Mar 11, 2017 05:43
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I am 27 years old and work for a software technology company that does enterprise software for our target industry. The company is by far the most expensive option when it comes to software, but is widely regarded as the “best”. Part of this reason is we have a dedicated Implementation team that handles the client from the day the contract is signed until the software is fully installed and utilized. The company has been in business for 5 years and is rapidly expanding. More clients, employees and office space. Previously I worked in sales for an office equipment/software company. I was very successful and closed three fortune 500 accounts as well as several large public entities through RFP/ITBs. My girlfriend was pushing me to do something less stressful and get out of sales. She wanted a more stable job with a future; she wanted me to have a career. I was hired at a job fair 8 months ago at a college career fair. I was not looking for a job, but went to kill some time and see my girlfriend. I ended up speaking to this company and they scheduled me for an interview immediately. I went in for the interview and they offered me 55K next day. I have zero experience in this industry or this job. Literally none. I accepted because I wanted to get out of sales into a different industry and this vehicle fell into my lap. My job title is an Implementation Specialist. I introduce clients to our software and guide them through installation and implementation from the ground up. I help design and input workflows into our software and eventually go out for 2-5 days and train them and their staff (dependent on size). This is typically a 30-day process but can be done as quickly in 3 days or as long as several months. I was assigned my first implementation 3 weeks after higher (a company record) and my first solo at the end of the first month. Since than they have assigned me 4 “rush” - week or less - implementations and several “high profile” clients. Approximately three months into my new job, the CEO bought out the CTO and President and moved to make the company less tech start-upy and more corporate. The CEO hired corporate people from his previous company and started creating hierarchies and teams. One of these team ideas was to start an office in the Midwest. A sales guy moved out there in January and is focusing on building the business in the midwest. I had a conversation with the new VP of Implementation and expressed interest in a managerial role in the new office and he told me I would be the guy for that. Since than we have not had many direct follow ups. My immediate boss told me that the VP let her know that I may be moving from the Southeast to the Midwest. Other managers have also made comments to me that indicate they know or have congratulated me for the position but nothing official. I have also since the year began became sort of the travel guy for the implementation team. I have not traveled two weeks this year so far. Every other week I am out with clients getting them up and running and I am the only member of the team to travel this much. I also believe I have outperformed my salary despite my zero experience and the fact that I have been wit the company for only 8 months. I want to ask for a raise, a relocation package and some solid details on what being the guy in the Midwest will entail. Does anyone have any suggestions or further questions?
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Mar 13, 2017 01:29
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Waroduce posted:Since than we have not had many direct follow ups. My immediate boss told me that the VP let her know that I may be moving from the Southeast to the Midwest. Other managers have also made comments to me that indicate they know or have congratulated me for the position but nothing official. I have also since the year began became sort of the travel guy for the implementation team. I have not traveled two weeks this year so far. Every other week I am out with clients getting them up and running and I am the only member of the team to travel this much. I also believe I have outperformed my salary despite my zero experience and the fact that I have been wit the company for only 8 months. I want to ask for a raise, a relocation package and some solid details on what being the guy in the Midwest will entail. Does anyone have any suggestions or further questions? Sounds like the role you're executing is also commonly referred to as a "Sales Engineer". People recognize your performance, and that is good. They likely also recognize that on paper you don't have an amazing looking history of doing your job well, which limits your mobility and means they get to engage in horsefuckery. Your odds of just up and jumping ship to another opportunity aren't awesome, so you have to remember not to overplay your hand. However at a broad outline what I'd try to do is the following: - Email VP of Implementation to schedule a follow up conversation. Ask for good times, and be ready to provide an agenda for the convo. - Agenda should hit on: 1. People are talking like this is a done deal. 2. You'd like more detailed info before uprooting to take over this midwest position. 3. Responsibilities seem expanded compared to present responsibilities. 4. In depth discussion of responsibilities of the new role. 5. In light of the costs of the move and the expanded responsibilities you're looking for compensation. 6. Relocation package. 7. Raise 8. Timely expectations for the relocation 9. Timely expectations for answers to above Timely means "March 23, 2017", not "soon". Have the meeting and discuss your agenda. Take notes during your meeting. After the meeting write the notes in email to VP and confirm everything in writing.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:21
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So my interview last week went very well and I just got an email back saying they are going to make me an offer and to expect a call from HR tomorrow to discuss the details. I'm excited about this opportunity. I figure I'll push for a better offer and benefits during that call. But I also got an unexpected call this morning asking for an interview with another agency. I had an email discussion with this other agency three weeks ago where they turned me down because I didn't have a certain license in hand that I'm currently working towards. The woman who turned me down was the one who called me, and said they were still interested and wanted to interview. This second agency also has a good reputation and I'd at least like to hear them out. But I am guarded because they already rejected me. We scheduled an interview for Friday. How should I handle this situation? Would it be a major faux pas to negotiate a deal with the first agency then tell them I need to hear back from another suitor first? The first agency does seem eager to bring me in, though they didn't seem to mind when I said I needed to give four weeks notice at my current job.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:38
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Macaroni Surprise posted:So my interview last week went very well and I just got an email back saying they are going to make me an offer and to expect a call from HR tomorrow to discuss the details. I'm excited about this opportunity. I figure I'll push for a better offer and benefits during that call. They'll likely want you to respond fairly quickly so that if you are responding in the negative they can move onto their next candidate quickly. It's totally acceptable to ask about what kind of response time they want, and, when provided an answer, to push back and get them to give you more time for decision making. And they get to determine if they like you enough to comply. However what you probably do not want to do is say that you have one and only one other opportunity, or give any information about that other opportunity. Instead you want to craft the language ambiguously: "I have other opportunities I need to finish evaluating, the earliest I can make a decision is Friday." Also, do not accept the offer and then back out. There's no legal repercussions, but you'll have burned a bridge with Agency 1, and anyone who discusses you with them in the future will also end up hearing a very unsympathetic narrative. You can slow down the current offer during negotiations with ambitious asks. They can't be so huge as to be unrealistic, but if the HR rep who calls you cannot approve the things you ask for themself, they'll have to run it up to higher pay grade people, which takes time, which slows down when you actually get your offer. Good luck and congratulations on your offer!
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Mar 14, 2017 14:38
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Any tips on negotiating in a previously planned vacation? Like, I have a trip planned in October/November, but their vacation policy probably wouldn't allow me to do that normally without first working a year or whatever. Should I just bring it up to the HR rep when discussing the offer?
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Mar 27, 2017 16:08
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Gin_Rummy posted:Any tips on negotiating in a previously planned vacation? Like, I have a trip planned in October/November, but their vacation policy probably wouldn't allow me to do that normally without first working a year or whatever. Should I just bring it up to the HR rep when discussing the offer?
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Mar 27, 2017 16:15
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Is money tight enough that you need to be paid for those weeks? Not necessarily, I don't think, but getting a week unpaid could be quite rough.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:22
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Gin_Rummy posted:Not necessarily, I don't think, but getting a week unpaid could be quite rough.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:26
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:PTO would be a tougher sell but certainly not impossible, especially since that's still 6+ months away. Do you actually know their vacation policy or are you just inferring from other places you work? Some companies reset vacation on Jan 1st and give new employees a pro-rated amount. Not yet, no. I'm going to ask the HR rep to send me a detailed benefits brochure before I accept any monetary offer, because that stuff matters to me as well. However, from similar companies, I know 2 to 3 weeks PTO is probably the standard, most likely going into effect after a year with the company. So, mostly guessing.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:32
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I've never heard of zero PTO for the first year - having to accrue it or take a pro-rated amount for the year is one thing, but that's pretty harsh. Anything is possible in America I suppose.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:40
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You know what, you're right. I think those other companies do have accrual during the first year, so I might not even need to worry.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:43
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Gin_Rummy posted:You know what, you're right. I think those other companies do have accrual during the first year, so I might not even need to worry.  Anecdotal EvidenceJust make sure to bring it up before you start/accepting the offer and, like the poster above said, don't phrase it as a question. Let them know it's already planned/paid for. Even in places with accrual, they can generally waive whatever for you if they want you in the door (or just not put it in the system as "vacation" or something like that). At my current place, I started November 30, 2015 and was then on vacation from Dec. 8th or so until Jan. 2nd. All paid. Similar situation at the employer before that.
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Mar 27, 2017 19:27
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Chaotic Flame posted:
Every place I've been at on both sides of the table as long as it's done up front you are fine. You'll likely go negative balance but will be fine.
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Mar 27, 2017 19:31
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Piling on the "don't ask, just tell" bandwagon. It'd be a dumb thing for them to put up a fight about, and they will more than likely find a way to work with you on it, whether it be a negative PTO balance or unpaid time or just letting you do it as a sort of hiring bonus. I have done this and know several other people that have done this.
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Mar 27, 2017 19:33
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The local chevy dealership here just had 100% turnover after being sold, new owners told everyone who had been there for decades "Well you're all new hires to us so no vacation for 12 months" and was met with "Suck our dicks from the back"
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Mar 27, 2017 20:15
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shame on an IGA posted:The local chevy dealership here just had 100% turnover after being sold, new owners told everyone who had been there for decades "Well you're all new hires to us so no vacation for 12 months" and was met with "Suck our dicks from the back" This is amazing. Did everyone leave within a month of each other or was it a slow trickle out?
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Mar 27, 2017 21:00
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It was like two weeks, staying open an extra 45 hours a week didn't go down very well either. Stack in the 3mo probationary period before they could get their health ins. back and yeah I'm honestly surprised nobody's torched that place yet. shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Mar 27, 2017 |
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Mar 27, 2017 22:53
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shame on an IGA posted:The local chevy dealership here just had 100% turnover after being sold, new owners told everyone who had been there for decades "Well you're all new hires to us so no vacation for 12 months" and was met with "Suck our dicks from the back" shame on an IGA posted:It was like two weeks, staying open an extra 45 hours a week didn't go down very well either. Those are certainly some interesting business practices 
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Mar 28, 2017 00:33
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Welcome to the rural south where all business relationships are modeled on domestic abuse dynamics
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Mar 28, 2017 00:38
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IllegallySober posted:Those are certainly some interesting business practices Jesus, that's some bonkers employee relations shame on an IGA posted:Welcome to the rural south where all business relationships are modeled on domestic abuse dynamics Well, if it's an area where there's low employment anyone with a job is much more likely to just suck it up but that's a stretch even for that kind of market.
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Mar 28, 2017 03:45
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It has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with selection criteria, the new owners wanted to weed out everyone with a spine.
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Mar 28, 2017 16:30
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shame on an IGA posted:The local chevy dealership here just had 100% turnover after being sold, new owners told everyone who had been there for decades "Well you're all new hires to us so no vacation for 12 months" and was met with "Suck our dicks from the back" as someome who works with car dealers, this is the least surprising poo poo of all time
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Mar 28, 2017 21:00
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Alright, just got my official offer after reviewing the benefits over the last few days. When I last spoke to the recruiter she said that the way they make offers is by weighing past experience, education, etc and then making what they consider to be a final number. She made it a point to say that "there won't really be much negotiation from this number." That being said, I'm ok with the number they're offering if it truly is non-negotiable, but I could have some trouble moving within a reasonable distance to work. Nobody cared to mention that this was a "local candidates only" position until then, so they aren't willing to offer relocation. Now, I am technically local, but it's about an hour+ away from where I currently live. What are the odds I can at least get them to buy out my current lease, or pay for a moving truck, or something?
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Mar 28, 2017 22:21
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Gin_Rummy posted:Alright, just got my official offer after reviewing the benefits over the last few days. When I last spoke to the recruiter she said that the way they make offers is by weighing past experience, education, etc and then making what they consider to be a final number. She made it a point to say that "there won't really be much negotiation from this number." Signing bonuses are generally easier to negotiate than salary as they're a one time payment, but if they've already said no to relocation I don't know how much luck you'll have. Generally the worst that can happen is they'll say no.
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Mar 29, 2017 00:40
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Yeah, I was kind of thinking of going the signing bonus route as it would probably be easier. However, they didn't offer one outright, so im questioning if that's something they're willing to add in.
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Mar 29, 2017 02:04
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Gin_Rummy posted:Yeah, I was kind of thinking of going the signing bonus route as it would probably be easier. However, they didn't offer one outright, so im questioning if that's something they're willing to add in. You won't know until you ask! When I got my offer I replied to it with a list of things I wanted, and I got about half of them, and that included relocation reimbursement.
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Mar 29, 2017 07:30
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How do you negotiate a raise if you specifically started with a comparatively low salary? I have no idea how to approach this, since I know the position should get a lot more, but since I got to skip a few career steps inbetween I took a fairly low salary to start.
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Mar 29, 2017 10:33
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SEKCobra posted:How do you negotiate a raise if you specifically started with a comparatively low salary? I have no idea how to approach this, since I know the position should get a lot more, but since I got to skip a few career steps inbetween I took a fairly low salary to start. I did that when I changed career tracks as a way of encouraging a company to take a risk on me. In my initial negotiation, I laid out the situation (something like "We both know that the market salary is X, but I'm fine accepting this offer even though it's less than that because I'm an unknown quantity without a track record in this field.") and asked "What performance goals would you need to see me meet over the next three months to feel comfortable paying me X?" and followed that with "Okay, I understand your KPIs are A, B, and C. Will you agree to meet with me in three months for a formal performance review, with the understanding that if I meet or exceed your expectations in these areas, I'll receive a salary adjustment to X?" I'm not sure how I'd initiate that conversation if I'd already accepted an offer without discussing my intentions. Maybe wait a few months and then leverage the experience I've gained in the meantime to interview at other companies until I had an offer at the salary I wanted.
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Mar 29, 2017 11:46
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fantastic in plastic posted:I did that when I changed career tracks as a way of encouraging a company to take a risk on me. Actually I did bring it up during the salary negotiations that I'm fine taking below market rate, but I didn't actually discuss a upgrade path.
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Mar 29, 2017 11:51
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Alright, the vacation non-issue has been officially resolved and I accepted their offer! Now, can anyone recommend the best time to give my current employer notice? Am I in the clear now? Should I wait for the drug test/background check to clear? I'm not expecting any issues with either, but you never know...
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Mar 29, 2017 21:25
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I waited for my drug/background to clear before informing. Ended up taking 3 months for Chicago to clear my background check.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:24
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Gin_Rummy posted:Alright, the vacation non-issue has been officially resolved and I accepted their offer! Now, can anyone recommend the best time to give my current employer notice? Am I in the clear now? Should I wait for the drug test/background check to clear? I'm not expecting any issues with either, but you never know... Wait for all background checks and other contingent items. Your offer is not firm until that stuff is all done.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:29
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Wait for all background checks and other contingent items. Your offer is not firm until that stuff is all done. I asked if I could wait for the background check to clear, but they told me that my current employer would be contacted through the background check... So how do I handle that? Never been in this situation before
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Mar 29, 2017 22:36
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Gin_Rummy posted:I asked if I could wait for the background check to clear, but they told me that my current employer would be contacted through the background check... So how do I handle that? Never been in this situation before Who does their background check company intend to call? Your boss or whatever random hr flunky?
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Mar 29, 2017 22:40
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