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Bakanogami posted:Finally dove in to Ascendance of a Bookworm and people were right, this is really good. It's too bad the translations are so far behind. The story takes a pretty sharp turn shortly after where they're at, too. I just finished the first arc myself last Sunday, after starting on the raws in October, and am still enjoying it. I like that even though she technically does have a special power (generic "has magic") like other protagonists, as far as I can tell, it's only going to be used to solve problems related to magic--as opposed to a power which lets her cheat her way to making books. I'm interested to see where it goes with this new status quo too. I've mentioned this before but it's done a pretty good job of keeping me engaged so far despite my slow reading speed--at 3-4 hours per chapter (+30 minutes of getting help with difficult sentences) and taking into account where I can fit it into my schedule, it is going to take me another 5 years to finish it  But hey my reading skill has improved greatly since starting so thanks Maine.
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Mar 29, 2017 05:39
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Argue posted:I just finished the first arc myself last Sunday, after starting on the raws in October, and am still enjoying it. I like that even though she technically does have a special power (generic "has magic") like other protagonists, as far as I can tell, it's only going to be used to solve problems related to magic--as opposed to a power which lets her cheat her way to making books. I'm interested to see where it goes with this new status quo too. I've mentioned this before but it's done a pretty good job of keeping me engaged so far despite my slow reading speed--at 3-4 hours per chapter (+30 minutes of getting help with difficult sentences) and taking into account where I can fit it into my schedule, it is going to take me another 5 years to finish it Yeah, I also read through the first arc in japanese, and while It was harder than the things I've read before it, it was possible to work though it while learning a bunch of new words. Except for chapter 23, that one totally destroyed me. All those cooking terms and ingredient names 
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Mar 29, 2017 07:18
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Not gonna lie, I'm behind on translating this week because I've been too busy reading ahead. I hit the hook in the chapter I'm currently translating (title: Maine Collapses) and immediately powered through the next few. I just wish that reading it on my phone/tablet were easier; I have such a good setup on my desktop with Rikai and my various dictionary tabs that I go at literally 1/4 speed when I'm not reading on it. e: also a commenter said that they wanted the author to drop the devouring entirely because it was a dumb drama button distraction 
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Mar 29, 2017 18:21
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When I first finished blastron's Kumoko chapters and switched to the turbo translation to continue reading I found a number of comments talking about how terrible blastron was and how his translation was basically blasphemy. I'm genuinely confused as to how a native English speaker could read both blastron's translation and turbo's and think that the latter is better. Is there some sort of weird translator code of honor where you're not supposed to translate stuff other people have translated? I also saw a bunch of people getting upset about blastron's translation of Kuro/Shiro to Black/White. This also confused me, since the words mean the same thing. Their explanation was "other names use Kanji that mean certain things but you don't translate their names" which was really dumb and makes me think that they know a little Japanese but not enough to realize why the situations are not remotely analogous.
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Mar 29, 2017 19:00
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Counterpoint: plenty of English (and other western) names have meanings associated with them but they tend to be transliterated into other languages than translated. Also it's not like English is adverse to loanwords. Admittedly this argument can work less well for nicknames where I honestly feel it easily goes either way depending more on the nature of the name. EDIT: That being said most of those dumb arguments are because they have become used to it being in one way and changing it is therefore heresy. Shanakin fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 19:08
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Kuro and shiro were nicknames that referred to the fact that one was completely black and the other was completely white. Translating those words works better than not translating them, but weebs gonna weeb.
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Mar 29, 2017 19:21
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Ytlaya posted:makes me think that they know a little Japanese but not enough gimme the GOD drat candy posted:but weebs gonna weeb. It's mostly this, as seen by the reactions whenever a translator dares to replace "Itadakimasu" with an equivalent expression
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Mar 29, 2017 19:28
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Rub a Dub Dub, Thanks for the Grub
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Mar 29, 2017 19:33
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Why bother translating something if you're going to leave half of it in Japanese.
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Mar 29, 2017 19:34
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Avulsion posted:Why bother translating something if you're going to leave half of it in Japanese. Rub a Dub Dub, dakimasu
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Mar 29, 2017 19:33
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I read some WN once that had 10 to 20 footnotes in each chapter explaining the poo poo that they decided not to translate for some reason. Most of the notes consisted of a single word that could have been inserted into the text without forcing people to scroll up and down constantly.
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Mar 29, 2017 19:42
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I've basically decided that I don't particularly care about driving readers away by localizing more heavily than the "standard" set by decades of fan manga translations. My goal is to bring stories into English while making sure that a reader completely unfamiliar with Japanese honorifics or niconico in-jokes. I also think a lot of people are complaining because they're used to the names and honorifics in turb0 and RTD's translations, so seeing nicknames like "Kuro" being localized to "Black" is jarring. I've never actually heard people complain about the localization I do in Bookworm, and I do a lot in order to bring things into line. When Maine had to explain to Lutz how to conjugate verbs into politer speech, for instance, which is not a thing that happens in English, I swapped that out with addressing people respectfully as "sir" and "ma'am". Gendered forms of polite address like that are not common in Japanese, yet nobody complained.  If I swap out a pop culture reference or some other borderline thing, I'll put it in a footnote. Otherwise, the guy whose entire visual gimmick is being entirely pitch black and whose nickname is literally the work "black" will be called Black.
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Mar 29, 2017 20:36
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How are you translating うふふん anyway? It's pretty much her iconic thing. It's also a thing that made it super weird reading the author's account of her dinner date with the manga artist, because it was written exactly like a Bookworm chapter, making it extremely obvious how much of an author insert Maine is, thus explaining why she's such an ultra Mary Sue.
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Mar 29, 2017 20:50
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Wow I just hit the turbo translations for the spider book and drat that's a harsh drop in how things flow.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:33
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^^^ I started to imagine everything being spoken with a heavy Japanese accent after hitting the transition.Avulsion posted:Why bother translating something if you're going to leave half of it in Japanese. I can sympathize to an extent, given that probably 90+% of people reading this stuff will have some level of familiarity with super common Japanese terms like "itadakimasu". Leaving some stuff in Japanese (or leaving sentences written with the same structure as they had in Japanese) can also be helpful for readers who have enough knowledge of the language to infer what was likely said in the original language. Some stuff is also very difficult to translate; using itadakimasu as an example, most English speakers don't really substitute anything for that, since saying it in the first place is a cultural thing. "Thanks for the meal" is the closest thing that comes to mind, and most people still don't say that before eating unless they're eating something someone else prepared for them and want to express gratitude. Same goes for stuff like senpai/kouhai, which I can't really think of an English equivalent for. All that being said, I still think that more thorough translations to English are superior and that a lot of the stuff you see in web novel translations is inexcusable. I think the dumbest thing is when people will use Japanese quotation marks, because I can't even begin to comprehend the reason for it. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 22:35
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The only think I will allow is honorifics
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Mar 29, 2017 22:40
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Ytlaya posted:^^^ I started to imagine everything being spoken with a heavy Japanese accent after hitting the transition. Even moving away from turbos use of throwaway Japanese words, the quality of the written English is poor; with multiple flaws in grammar and (most unforgivably) syntax.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:43
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Avulsion posted:Why bother translating something if you're going to leave half of it in Japanese. All according to keikaku
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Mar 29, 2017 22:44
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darkgray posted:How are you translating うふふん anyway? It's pretty much her iconic thing. It's a knowing and/or gleeful chuckle, so "heh heh" or "hehe" depending on how I read the rhythm of the sentence. "Hoohoo" would be a more direct phonemic translation but that's a grandma laugh.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:46
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Ytlaya posted:Same goes for stuff like senpai/kouhai, which I can't really think of an English equivalent for.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:16
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Jackard posted:I figure you just go with something like senior/junior when on its own, or not at all when tacked on the end of a name (because repeating it isn't that important once the relationship is established) Yea, that works 90% of the time but I dont know how you avoid translation notes when the story needs to make a point of the specifics of junior/senior relationship between the characters. Its just not a relationship that exists in any great capacity anymore in the west, especially now that apprenticeships are all but dead.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:29
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Sometimes keeping non-English terms makes a lot of sense for the audience translators are writing for. It's often taken too far and can be practically unreadable at the extremes. Chinese novels involving old school nobility are generally the worst for this.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:32
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Meme Emulator posted:Yea, that works 90% of the time but I dont know how you avoid translation notes when the story needs to make a point of the specifics of junior/senior relationship between the characters. Its just not a relationship that exists in any great capacity anymore in the west, especially now that apprenticeships are all but dead. You just rewrite it cleverly to make all the senpai bullies, and the kouhai their victims.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:33
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Meme Emulator posted:Yea, that works 90% of the time but I dont know how you avoid translation notes when the story needs to make a point of the specifics of junior/senior relationship between the characters. Its just not a relationship that exists in any great capacity anymore in the west, especially now that apprenticeships are all but dead. That actually brings to mind a question - in American high schools you often end up with classes being taken by people from multiple grade levels, particularly during junior/senior year. Are Japanese high schools similar to this (in the sense that you can choose from a variety of optional courses outside of your graduation requirements and change the order in which you take courses sometimes), or is it more structured in the sense that all the people in your classes will be from the same grade as you? Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 23:34
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Herbotron posted:Sometimes keeping non-English terms makes a lot of sense for the audience translators are writing for. It's often taken too far and can be practically unreadable at the extremes. Chinese novels involving old school nobility are generally the worst for this. are you insulting me junior martial brother
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Mar 29, 2017 23:57
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UberJew posted:are you insulting me junior martial brother Not at all senior martial apprentice brother. it hardly bears mentioning that extremely literal translations aren't a great alternative either
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Mar 30, 2017 00:18
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Ytlaya posted:That actually brings to mind a question - in American high schools you often end up with classes being taken by people from multiple grade levels, particularly during junior/senior year. Are Japanese high schools similar to this (in the sense that you can choose from a variety of optional courses outside of your graduation requirements and change the order in which you take courses sometimes), or is it more structured in the sense that all the people in your classes will be from the same grade as you? Everyone hangs out in the same classroom and the teachers move between classes instead of it being the other way around like in american HS. I think club activities and downtime like lunch would be the biggest time you socialize with people outside of your classroom
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Mar 30, 2017 00:38
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Meme Emulator posted:Everyone hangs out in the same classroom and the teachers move between classes instead of it being the other way around like in american HS. I think club activities and downtime like lunch would be the biggest time you socialize with people outside of your classroom That is interesting. It seems kind of inconvenient in the sense that teachers would have to bring all their materials around with them (instead of being able to customize their classroom for "teaching X subject" like you see in our schools).
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Mar 30, 2017 01:18
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UberJew posted:are you insulting me junior martial brother Eh. That one's pretty easy to work out. There's a stretch in the ZTJ translations where "cultivate", "cultivation" etc. are left entirely untranslated.  e: In fairness, if you're not already familiar with the concept, a translation probably isn't going to help you much there. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 01:44
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I've honestly never been able to quite get into the Korean and Chinese legs of the web novel scene. I'm familiar enough with the conventions and tropes in Japanese ones that they're easy to read, but take that away and the odd translations and template heavy stories become a lot denser. Ytlaya posted:That is interesting. It seems kind of inconvenient in the sense that teachers would have to bring all their materials around with them (instead of being able to customize their classroom for "teaching X subject" like you see in our schools). The list of pros and cons is long enough for its own thread, but yeah on the whole I'd rate it as a pain in the rear end. Teachers are limited in what materials they can use, classrooms are dull and drab because they have to be multipurpose, students are limited in what subjects they can choose to learn, and you can wind up with weird social problems from the focus on group responsibility.
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Mar 30, 2017 02:13
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Back in my day you had five minutes to schmooze in the hallway and walk half a mile... and we liked it!! E: but seriously that does sound like rear end Jackard fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 02:20
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TBH translating names is an instant "throw away the book" offense to me. Translating Kuro/Shuro is in the same degree of horribleness, to me, that Translating Snape to Rogue in french is. gently caress that. I... also strongly prefer the translation choices in, say, World of Cultivation, than in most 'translate everything' translators.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:35
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world of cultivation might be good if they decided to actually translate it, but we will never know.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:42
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Arkeus posted:TBH translating names is an instant "throw away the book" offense to me. No, you should always translate 譲治 to George.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:57
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Arkeus posted:TBH translating names is an instant "throw away the book" offense to me. Translating Kuro/Shuro is in the same degree of horribleness, to me, that Translating Snape to Rogue in french is. gently caress that. The thing is, those aren't really "names" in a normal sense. It's like if you had a dude with long legs who people started referring to as "long legs-san" and then the translator just left his name as Nagai Ashi or whatever. edit: Like, the comments I read compared it with translating someone's name by translating the kanji it contains to English, but that isn't remotely the same thing. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 09:23
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I think all anime, manga, and web novels should be translated by the Ace Attorney localization staff.
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Mar 30, 2017 09:31
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Hahaha, Blow getting a fear-crush on Shiro.
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Mar 30, 2017 10:47
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Arkeus posted:TBH translating names is an instant "throw away the book" offense to me. Translating Kuro/Shuro is in the same degree of horribleness, to me, that Translating Snape to Rogue in french is. gently caress that. E: if Japanese Rowling had a dude with an obvious pun name like 黒 天狼, you wouldn't want to let English readers in on the joke when romanizing it? Jackard fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 14:52
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Jackard posted:Sounding a little crazy here. Why would anyone "translate" Snape's name in that way? It depends upon the context I think. If something is an actual name (like the name they were given at birth or something) it might be better to not translate it and just add a footnote if there's a pun (for example the My Hero Academia names). After all, most common names has some sort of meaning. I think the Kumoko example mentioned before is different, though, because in that case the names in question are nicknames that explicitly mean Black/White.
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Mar 30, 2017 17:13
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if anything, shiro's name could be left as shiro but kuro would still need to be translated.
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Mar 30, 2017 17:40
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