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Well poo poo. The multicrew payout nerf really hurts the incentive I had to convince my friends to give Elite another shot with me. Being able to boost them into Vultures while having fun dicking around in a late game ship was kind of the whole point. The fact that Frontier's reasoning has its own internally consistent logic points to an even worse disconnect. They're trying to pursue balanced progression as if the game actually had meaningful content to balance. The game's existing activities need to be built up and fleshed out considerably before there will be enough to usefully balance. Right now making meaningful progress in the game and playing for fun are more or less mutually exclusive. Also ship transfers are pretty much DOA for me. I tried using it twice and regretted it both times. There is no situation where it's not a more productive use of my free time to manually fly ships to where I need them. I shouldn't have to coordinate my real life schedule around the game to make effective use of a quality of life feature.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:59
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What's the ingame explanation (that doesn't break immersion) for being blown up then reincarnated at the last station you visited? Someone picks you up in an escape pod or something? Universal health care? Do they really take you 18 jumps away if you haven't docked in a while? Basically, its a video game , stop making it dumb and claiming it's being realistic.
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Mar 30, 2017 00:06
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Yah 3 million seems unreasonable. I didn't realize prices were that bad for the space rich.
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Mar 30, 2017 00:14
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Best part of ship transfer wait times is slow boating your un-engineered Corvette some place and still getting there faster than if you had transfered it
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Mar 30, 2017 00:16
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At last I finally have a Cutter! *glorious maiden voyage to mine rocks begins* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry81Exmgq9s
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Mar 30, 2017 00:20
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BEEP BOOP maximizing spacebucks is the only logical multicrew motivation. BOOP BEEP BEEP just having a fun time flying a spaceship with friends is irrelevant.
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Mar 30, 2017 00:32
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The loving space-boat on progression sailed a LONG loving time ago, and since it is FTL there's no catching up again. When I reset my account early last year, it took all of two missions before I went from Sidewider to Adder. A CG ticketed over a couple days later and I was flying a kitted out Explorer T7 and going space made somewhere coreward. There is no meaningful progression in Elite and that is not necessarily a bad thing. They gave us a bunch of role-specific ships so maybe they should focus on making those roles progress instead of the ship grind. Courier missions that eventually start turning into multi-part errands, stretching 100s of LYs and require flying a small ship through a densely packed asteroid field or into a narrow crevasse. Assassination missions that require knocking off a trader while it tries to dock or some prospector tooling around one of those planet bases in his buggy. Maybe give us the option to request missions to a destination instead of playing Mission Board Roulette so we can take more than 8 tons of space poop 12 LY in our loving Pythons. Maybe even ground attack missions that REQUIRE a second person to be on the ground hacking into a console or some poo poo with their buggy so your buddy can get a shot off or something. Basically get some loving game design going that doesn't just go More Boat -> More Money -> More Boat.
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Mar 30, 2017 00:36
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Trustworthy posted:BEEP BOOP maximizing spacebucks is the only logical multicrew motivation. BOOP BEEP BEEP just having a fun time flying a spaceship with friends is irrelevant. Guess what it stopping people from having a fun time with spaceships. It's the spaceships being ridiculously expensive and the money being a bitch to grind for. And if those space friends happen to die doing cool poo poo like combat, they get to pay even more money that they can't get doing cool poo poo like combat. What's the incentive for punishing people who want to have a fun time flying a spaceship with friends again?
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Mar 30, 2017 00:36
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DatonKallandor posted:And if those space friends happen to die doing cool poo poo like combat, they get to pay even more money that they can't get doing cool poo poo like combat. If someone is losing too much money because they suck at combat, then the existing multi-crew system is PERFECT because they can jump into someone else's ship and earn a slightly reduced pay-out in exchange for assuming literally zero risk.
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Mar 30, 2017 00:42
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When you give players the option of "Having Fun" or "Being Effective" they usually choose a third option "gently caress You, I quit".
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Mar 30, 2017 00:42
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Trustworthy posted:BEEP BOOP maximizing spacebucks is the only logical multicrew motivation. BOOP BEEP BEEP just having a fun time flying a spaceship with friends is irrelevant. I think the only unrewarding "fun things with friends" to do in this game is maybe zooming around in canyons. Does anyone do that more than a handful of times? Is there a popular, unrewarding thing in this video game that people do? Because Multicrew, initially meant (and advertised) to bring in more people and have people play together will just be a novelty to maybe do some silly gimmicky tourism (I'm in Colonia, come see what it's like!), but if it's not rewarding to do in a grindy game, it's going to get much less play. So this is FDev shooting themselves in the foot. Not my problem, but they're still immense idiots for doing it. Trustworthy posted:in exchange for assuming literally zero risk. Why not, rather than reduce payouts, just add a risk so this completely senseless talking point is flushed down the toilet with everyone else's lovely opinions? The 'zero-risk' was decided as arbitrarily as 'Everyone getting bounties!' was when it was first advertised and perceived as a good idea. It's not set in stone and, until it goes live it's subject to change.
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Mar 30, 2017 00:53
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Trustworthy posted:If someone is losing too much money because they suck at combat, then the existing multi-crew system is PERFECT because they can jump into someone else's ship and earn a slightly reduced pay-out in exchange for assuming literally zero risk. Yeah, they earn under 3% at the start and if they're elite they get a whole 50%, it's a pretty small cut. But shoot - if it's so small, why bother having a cut at all? (realtalk I wish they gave a bonus if you're really new to give people an incentive to multicrew but loltier) Morter posted:...Why not, rather than reduce payouts, just add a risk so this completely senseless talking point is flushed down the toilet with everyone else's lovely opinions? The 'zero-risk' was decided as arbitrarily as 'Everyone getting bounties!' was when it was first advertised and perceived as a good idea. It's not set in stone and, until it goes live it's subject to change. There's no real risk to any part of the game unless you die constantly, running out of money is basically this game's version of Undertale's evil run
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Mar 30, 2017 01:21
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Knifegrab posted:Murph!  CloFan posted:What's the ingame explanation (that doesn't break immersion) for being blown up then reincarnated at the last station you visited? Someone picks you up in an escape pod or something? Universal health care? Do they really take you 18 jumps away if you haven't docked in a while? You are picked up in an escape pod, and insurance buys you a brand new ship (with all of your engineered specialty mods) which is waiting for you at the last place you docked, regardless of whether you are in-system or at Beagle Point. This all happens instantly. Don't remind the grognards of this, they will try to bring back the "escape pod module" and permadeath... vorebane posted:Yah 3 million seems unreasonable. I didn't realize prices were that bad for the space rich. It's not unreasonable if you're spaceTrump, but even in a Corvette (using  correct gameplay) that is a few hours of playing time to earn the cash to use a tool which doesn't save time.Insert name here posted:Best part of ship transfer wait times is slow boating your un-engineered Corvette some place and still getting there faster than if you had transfered it Exactly, the feature's stated purpose is to make your ships more available, but the Brown Sea pitched a fit about the possibility of the trader they are trying to gank getting into a combat ship and fighting them, so here we are. Trustworthy posted:BEEP BOOP maximizing spacebucks is the only logical multicrew motivation. BOOP BEEP BEEP just having a fun time flying a spaceship with friends is irrelevant. I know you're trolling (but serious), but making decent credits AND having fun with friends should not be mutually exclusive in a multiplayer game.
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Mar 30, 2017 02:30
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I know you're trolling (but serious), but making decent credits AND having fun with friends should not be mutually exclusive in a multiplayer game. This is a good example of how this thread's chronic complainers are broken, because ANYTHING less than "literally the maximum credits possible" will never ever be "decent credits" in their eyes. I'm seeing experienced players making, say, 50,000 instead of the full 100,000 for a kill. That's decent credits and--while arguably not ideal--shouldn't be enough to ruin any sane person's fun with friends. Trustworthy fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 02:45
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Trustworthy posted:This is a good example of how this thread's chronic complainers are broken, because ANYTHING less than "literally the maximum credits possible" will never ever be "decent credits" in their eyes. I'm seeing people making, say, 50,000 instead of the full 100,000 for a kill. That's decent credits and--while arguably not ideal--shouldn't be enough to ruin any sane person's fun with friends. That's if they're Elite, after many months if not a year of grinding kills. After a couple days or weeks in at Competent, they currently get 3k out of a 100k kill; we don't actually have numbers for what a day 1 newbie would get, but it'd be lower than that.
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Mar 30, 2017 02:50
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Good Dumplings posted:That's if they're elite, after many months if not a year of grinding kills. After a couple days or weeks in, they currently get 3k out of a 100k kill; we don't actually have numbers for what a day 1 newbie would get, but it'd be lower than that. If a brand new newbie makes a mere 5,000 per kill as a gunner, they're still going to be making more over the course of a multicrew session than what they'd get from bumbling around with courier missions, or RESing it on their own. And their rank will be climbing upward that entire time, so they payouts will be getting consistently better. Payouts are inevitably going to get tweaked upward after release, due to all the beta feedback, but even if they didn't, I think the multi-crew payout system is far from the travesty that folks here are making it out to be.
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Mar 30, 2017 02:55
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Trustworthy posted:If a brand new newbie makes a mere 5,000 per kill as a gunner, they're still going to be making more over the course of a multicrew session than what they'd get from bumbling around with courier missions, or RESing it on their own. And their rank will be climbing upward that entire time, so they payouts will be getting consistently better. Eh? If you do coptrolling at a RES you can get a couple million per hour pulling Anacondas into the local patrol, multicrew pays orders of magnitude less than running solo/winged in the current system. I'm trying to figure out why they didn't make it so Harmless is paid like... 150% and it scales down to 100% at Competent so new people would want to join other ships but wouldn't feel like they need to stay as crew forever. But telling someone who just bought the game that they're paid less because they're noobs is apparently very important to the Elite Experience? Good Dumplings fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 03:02
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Trustworthy posted:If a brand new newbie makes a mere 5,000 per kill as a gunner, they're still going to be making more over the course of a multicrew session than what they'd get from bumbling around with courier missions, or RESing it on their own. This just by itself is just untrue. You can get five figures from most small ships in RES by yourself, even in a bone stock sidewinder just by tailing cops. With the current numbers I'm reading here, multicrew will be a strictly worse option for making money at all levels.
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Mar 30, 2017 03:02
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Trustworthy posted:If a brand new newbie makes a mere 5,000 per kill as a gunner, they're still going to be making more over the course of a multicrew session than what they'd get from bumbling around with courier missions, or RESing it on their own. And their rank will be climbing upward that entire time, so they payouts will be getting consistently better. What rear end are you pulling these numbers from? If someone has a friend to bounty hunt with (presumably, the same one they'd wanted to multicrew with) they'd make money hand over fist anyway, in some situations with less effort than if they were gunning/fighter-piloting in MC. And without moving the goal posts, that just makes MC obsolete for the seemingly intended purpose of helping friends get up to speed, like people with friends actually do. A game with a balanced and enjoyable ramp of progression wouldn't need as many exploits and fast-cash methods as Elite: Dangerous keeps popping up with. MC seemed like both a new and productive way for friends to help each other, or even meet new people. Now it's just a lovely novelty.
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Mar 30, 2017 03:04
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Stop taking fake quotes from the brown sea seriously 
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Mar 30, 2017 03:05
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Xae posted:When you give players the option of "Having Fun" or "Being Effective" they usually choose a third option "gently caress You, I quit". This is the desired outcome of the brown sea. They don't want the common peasants to ever reach their lofty heights of exclusive video game rank achievement because that's literally the one support pillar their self esteem hangs on.
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Mar 30, 2017 03:07
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Stop taking fake quotes from the brown sea seriously I just got shipped out the other day, it's hard to tell what's ironic when every shitpost around you is for real 
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Mar 30, 2017 03:07
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timn posted:This just by itself is just untrue. You can get five figures from most small ships in RES by yourself, even in a bone stock sidewinder just by tailing cops. With the current numbers I'm reading here, multicrew will be a strictly worse option for making money at all levels. Okay fine, fine.  I'll revert to my original argument of "Newbie gunners get paid less, but they get to fight in big expensive ships with zero financial risk. Plus everyone involved gets to have a fun, new, unique experience with friends." I am 100% okay with this design philosophy.
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Mar 30, 2017 03:07
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Newbies won't be joining anyone's crew because ED doesn't have a global chat function or remotely decent social tools 
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Mar 30, 2017 03:10
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I guess the people desperate for crew to man their autism chariots for that all important "I'm a space captain now" feeling can spend all day in Erivate sending spam tells to every Sidewinder they manage to scan 
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Mar 30, 2017 03:17
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Uh you know there's an LFG functionality to include a "mentoring" category right?
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Mar 30, 2017 03:18
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Uh you know there's an LFG functionality to include a "mentoring" category right? You think newbies are going to find that function buried in a sub menu? A person who literally loads the game on their first day?
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Mar 30, 2017 03:18
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DancingShade posted:You think newbies are going to find that function buried in a sub menu? my first day was two weeks ago and i was involved in a headon collision leaving a spaceport today
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Mar 30, 2017 03:37
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That's pretty good for two weeks in tbh
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Mar 30, 2017 03:43
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I slammed into those rods that surround the orbital entrance the other day, right in front of another player. Thought I'd be a badass and zoom right in. Wham
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Mar 30, 2017 03:47
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Good Dumplings posted:That's pretty good for two weeks in tbh i interdicted a mostly harmless diamondback scout seeking his 9k credit bounty and he almost killed me 1v1
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Mar 30, 2017 03:58
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Fojar38 posted:i interdicted a mostly harmless diamondback scout seeking his 9k credit bounty and he almost killed me 1v1 Wait, like in PvP? Because that's really good for two weeks in, a lot of the population doesn't do PvP period.
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Mar 30, 2017 04:09
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Good Dumplings posted:Wait, like in PvP? Because that's really good for two weeks in, a lot of the population doesn't do PvP period. No an NPC
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Mar 30, 2017 04:12
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Fojar38 posted:my first day was two weeks ago and i was involved in a headon collision leaving a spaceport today my first day was almost two years ago and now my headon collisions are on purpose 
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Mar 30, 2017 04:13
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Trustworthy posted:If a brand new newbie makes a mere 5,000 per kill as a gunner, they're still going to be making more over the course of a multicrew session than what they'd get from bumbling around with courier missions, or RESing it on their own. And their rank will be climbing upward that entire time, so they payouts will be getting consistently better. Incidentally, the split they described in that post is not how the values work in this beta patch and you do not currently appear to gain combat rank or faction rep so they're either describing changes they'll be making in future, they're confused about what they've actually implemented or the system is just straight up bugged on the beta.
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Mar 30, 2017 04:39
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I'm sorry, but 3M to move an Anaconda/Corvette 6 jumps while also waiting half an hour is stupid and unfun. Then go and fetch it yourself...
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Mar 30, 2017 08:54
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Gort posted:I can't think of a time when it's been a big money-maker to do combat in this game. There was that one point (I want to say something like.. 1.4, when the Vulture was new?) where you could wedge your ship against a friendly capital ship in a combat zone, set your turrets to fire-at-will, and go AFK while the capship killed everything that you aggroed. That one got patched out pretty fast.
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Mar 30, 2017 09:06
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Mu77ley posted:Then go and fetch it yourself... Great use of a great new feature then, huh. 
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Mar 30, 2017 09:18
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Morter posted:Great use of a great new feature then, huh. Then pay the price and stop whining.
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Mar 30, 2017 10:27
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Mu77ley posted:stop whining. I guess you're used to 'not being listened to', but putting Bad Design Choices to the forefront of people's attention helps in getting them fixed. You know, like good developers are supposed to do. Or else, if you let lovely things continue and have people accept and get used to them, you get idiotic things like people saying "But people with lower ranks getting less money makes SENSE!  "Meanwhile, in the actual flipping game:   v v
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Mar 30, 2017 11:12
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