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Or the Punisher.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:49
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This was the best-scripted, best-directed, best-acted superhero movie of all time. It approached the subject with an expertly-tuned degree of gravitas, and does a wonderful job of painting a world through overheard snippets rather than exposition dumps and monologues. It's probably the superhero movie that credits its audience's intelligence the most as well, and is by all means a very well-crafted bit of media. I didn't care for it. I'm not saying that every comic book movie needs to be a black-vs-while heroes-unequivocally-triumph-over-all bit of pablum, and a death-of-wolverine sendoff is fine, but it just felt like the movie was so grim and mean-spirited to its protagonists and its world so utterly stripped of hope that I felt like I'd been watching a puppy get kicked to death over the course of 2 1/4 hours. X-men as a franchise is one that focuses on an oppressed people overcoming struggles and prejudices, and there's been a whole lot of analogies drawn between the struggles and eventual triumph of mutants and real-world struggles in relation to racism, homophobia, religious persecution etc, but at the end of the day there's a message about facing that oppression and there being hope for the future. This movie straight-up tells you "Xavier's dream is dead, mutants have been silently and successfully genocided, the future is hosed, the heroes are either mentally (though accidentally killing all of his friends/surrogate family, you know, all those characters that you liked and then suffering brain disease) or physically broken, throw away your comic books you rube."
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Mar 30, 2017 02:33
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This movie is really really good on all levels. I didn't care for it. -A Goon
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Mar 30, 2017 02:39
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UmOk posted:This movie is really really good on all levels. I didn't care for it. -A Goon It is impossible to recognise skill in the application of a craft and yet not subjectively enjoy its end result. -A Goon
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Mar 30, 2017 02:46
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A big part of the movie focuses on comic books/Wolverine being a symbol of hope to the next generation with Laura hopefully carrying on the kind parts of him after killing the cruel parts. I don't think it's saying "throw out your comics."
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Mar 30, 2017 02:58
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Breetai posted:X-men as a franchise is one that focuses on an oppressed people overcoming struggles and prejudices, and there's been a whole lot of analogies drawn between the struggles and eventual triumph of mutants and real-world struggles in relation to racism, homophobia, religious persecution etc, but at the end of the day there's a message about facing that oppression and there being hope for the future. idk man, logan's whole arc in the movie ultimately leads to him confronting people exploiting his kind and dying in order to protect those who are left it's a grim world but logan did his part to make it a little bit better and you don't do that without the hope that it'll be worth it
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Mar 30, 2017 03:03
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:A big part of the movie focuses on comic books/Wolverine being a symbol of hope to the next generation with Laura hopefully carrying on the kind parts of him after killing the cruel parts. I don't think it's saying "throw out your comics." Yeah, Eden was just a random idea in a comic, but the kids use it as a beacon of hope. Not entirely sure where the idea that "hope" means things are going to be easy comes from, there's light at the end of the tunnel sure, but you still have to go through the dark to get there. In terms of myths, hope was underneath all the death and destruction inside Pandora's box. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuPf3OhbcGw
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Mar 30, 2017 03:55
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Finally saw it today, I liked it and all, but I have a bit of an issue where no matter how good a movie is, once the runtime goes past a certain point, I start to get restless and just want things to wrap up. My one complaint was Donald Pierce's role in the movie. I thought Boyd Holbrook played him well, but he didn't really read like much of a threat/antagonist. I also thought the doctor expositioning about how they quelled random mutant births was a little heavy-handed; I thought the cause was implied when Eriq LaSalle mentioned the GMO corn and how it's in just about every drink. I thought the best little touches were that X-Men comics were a dramatized version of what actually happened, as well as the one kid carrying a Wolverine action figure at the grave site.
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Mar 30, 2017 04:11
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If you read the thread you will be informed that the action figure actually ruined the whole movie.
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Mar 30, 2017 04:26
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it was a bad action figure. They shoulda used a Hot Toys one.
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Mar 30, 2017 05:05
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It should've been sculpted from a woodblock.
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Mar 30, 2017 05:10
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It should've been a life-sizeed cutout or a dakimakura of Logan. Breetai posted:This was the best-scripted, best-directed, best-acted superhero movie of all time. It approached the subject with an expertly-tuned degree of gravitas, and does a wonderful job of painting a world through overheard snippets rather than exposition dumps and monologues. It's probably the superhero movie that credits its audience's intelligence the most as well, and is by all means a very well-crafted bit of media. So the takeaway was that it had *~world-building~*. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 05:40
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listen, if a movie doesn't make me feel like i'm being transported away from my lovely life and into another world, well, then that movie is trash
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Mar 30, 2017 05:49
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Snowman_McK posted:Actual white supremacists did get super angry at a particular bit of casting in the Thor movies. You might be able to guess which bit it was. Natalie Portman. Thor would never have a Jewish girlfriend! and Idris Elba as Heimdall the White, of course
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Mar 30, 2017 07:31
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So nobody here has ever seen a movie that is technically proficiently made, receiving critical acclaim, and that they recognise is well-crafted, and yet didn't particularly float their boat for whatever subjective personal reason?
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Mar 30, 2017 08:00
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Breetai posted:So nobody here has ever seen a movie that is technically proficiently made, receiving critical acclaim, and that they recognise is well-crafted, and yet didn't particularly float their boat for whatever subjective personal reason? I appreciate Blade Runner for its art design and atmosphere, but the movie's kind of a bore to me.
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Mar 30, 2017 09:32
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It's definitely a fine piece of work but the moment that crystallized the film's shortcomings was: At the very end when Laura calls Logan "papa." My immediate reaction to that line was, "Wait, what?" It made sense a moment later--of course a 10 year old child is going to look to Logan as a father figure--he's the same as her, he's trying to protect her, she's a vulnerable child without anyone in the world. But I never really bought it, and I think my gut reaction was right. A big part of the problem is that movie wants to have its cake and eat it; yes violence is awful and damaging...but isn't it kickin rad when Laura cuts that guy's head off?! She never really reads as vulnerable. She's, like, about Logan's equal in a fight. It seems like the first thing a half decent human being like Logan would be trying to do would be to prevent her from having to do violence...but it doesn't seem to bother him that much. It's not a great movie but I thought of Road to Perdition as a pretty good approach to similar material. That film has an almost identical conclusion but there the final gunshot there really rings out. It feels like truly significant moment for both the child and adult characters. Here, well, Laura's already iced like a dozen guys already. I guess the question at the heart of the movie is whether Laura (and her friends) are going to meet the same fate as the previous X-Men, or if a better world is possible. But you never really get the sense that her soul's at stake or anything. What does she end up learning from Logan, or choosing not to learn from him? Why, on the level of theme, did the X-Men fail, and is it going to happen again? I thought it was interesting how little respect or awe the kids seemed to have for him--they view the previous generation rather disdainfully, but why? porfiria fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 09:59
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porfiria posted:It's definitely a fine piece of work but the moment that crystallized the film's shortcomings was: I dunno about your whole conclusion but I did have a similar reaction at the end of Aliens when Newt called Ripley mommy
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Mar 30, 2017 10:18
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So the takeaway was that it had *~world-building~*. By next week I expect you'll be throwing shade on the makeup and costume work.
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Mar 30, 2017 10:46
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I would give this movie 6/6 Adamantium claws. I didn't really care for it though.
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Mar 30, 2017 12:13
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I would sacrifice my first born son for this film. It was alright I guess.
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Mar 30, 2017 12:32
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Breetai posted:So nobody here has ever seen a movie that is technically proficiently made, receiving critical acclaim, and that they recognise is well-crafted, and yet didn't particularly float their boat for whatever subjective personal reason? Maybe people are bemused at someone calling it "the best-scripted, best-directed, best-acted superhero movie of all time" when it's barely superheroic as already pointed out. It's no Man of Steel. "The best superhero movie" even seems like a surrender, a tacit acknowledgement that it can only thrive under a very specific label It's not even superior to Road to Perdition, a competent but forgettable comic book movie about father and child navigating a dissolute world of violence.
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Mar 30, 2017 12:39
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Wow, hold on a second. Are you saying Man of Steel is better than Logan?
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Mar 30, 2017 15:05
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Alan_Shore posted:Wow, hold on a second. Based on his posts so far in this thread, he believes Man of Steel fosters a proper Volksgemeinschaft like mythology does, while Logan only offers Gesellschaft relationships. Now, I would dispute these assertions, but I doubt there's any point in objecting because that would mark you as outside Volksgemeinschaft.
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Mar 30, 2017 15:45
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Brainiac Five posted:Based on his posts so far in this thread, he believes Man of Steel fosters a proper Volksgemeinschaft like mythology does, while Logan only offers Gesellschaft relationships. Now, I would dispute these assertions, but I doubt there's any point in objecting because that would mark you as outside Volksgemeinschaft. This tbh.
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Mar 30, 2017 15:53
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Alan_Shore posted:Wow, hold on a second. He probably is, and I definitely will right now since you ask.
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Mar 30, 2017 16:19
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I kind of get where Breetai is coming from, though I would have put it a little differently. Well made films that I find viscerally depressing aren't something I want to watch every day, but being depressing isn't a comment on the film's quality. If anything, it's the opposite, considering the movie's world is one where there is a pharmaceutical cure for diversity, and the rest are hunted down by white trash with guns and neck tattoos. It's a hell of white people, if it wasn't depressing then the film makers were incompetent.
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Mar 30, 2017 16:22
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porfiria posted:It's definitely a fine piece of work but the moment that crystallized the film's shortcomings was:
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Mar 30, 2017 16:32
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Alan_Shore posted:Are you saying Man of Steel is better than Logan? I am also saying that Logan isn't even as good as Road to Perdition. Brainiac Five posted:Based on his posts so far in this thread, he believes Man of Steel fosters a proper Volksgemeinschaft like mythology does, while Logan only offers Gesellschaft relationships. Now, I would dispute these assertions, but I doubt there's any point in objecting because that would mark you as outside Volksgemeinschaft. Actually Man of Steel is good because of how well it translates the promises and potential of comic book fantasies into exciting cinema, and Logan pales in comparison as a sci-fi superhero adventure. Trying to treat pop culture as myth is misguided, and it's ill-served in that role. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 18:12
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Lamps is Tezzor for the Logan thread.
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Mar 30, 2017 18:17
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I am also saying that Logan isn't even as good as Road to Perdition. To be fair I don't think Logan really tries to (treat it as myth). No one in the movie really gives a poo poo about the X-Men one way or the other. I feel like the myth angle only came up because someone was defending the toy in the final scene--which I agree doesn't quite work, but mostly because, again, the kids don't really give much of a poo poo about Logan. I guess that one little fat kid was a fanboy. They don't even really care if he comes with them on the last leg of their incredibly dangerous journey, which just from a tactical perspective seems pointedly dismissive (and foolish)!
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Mar 30, 2017 18:39
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Actually Man of Steel is good because of how well it translates the promises and potential of comic book fantasies into exciting cinema, and Logan pales in comparison as a sci-fi superhero adventure. Okay, so it's good because you found it exciting. Thank you for your contribution.
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Mar 30, 2017 20:39
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I just got back from seeing Logan and holy loving lol at people here saying MoS was better. This was the best comic book movie I've ever seen probably. Logan and the girl both played their parts perfectly, loved it.
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Mar 31, 2017 17:22
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Doflamingo posted:I just got back from seeing Logan and holy loving lol at people here saying MoS was better. This was the best comic book movie I've ever seen probably. Logan and the girl both played their parts perfectly, loved it. It was actually the greatest thing ever created in the history of all entertainment at least since William Q Shakespeare. I didn't really care for it.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:16
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UmOk posted:It was actually the greatest thing ever created in the history of all entertainment at least since William Q Shakespeare. I didn't really care for it. Oh yeah, same.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:20
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I know Breetai's post hurt your feelings real bad, but I mostly agree with him. There were many things I liked about Logan, the first half of so was very compelling, but the entire story came to a crashing halt at the family's farmhouse and the new clone. By the end I just wanted it to be over, there was nothing new or interesting being done with the film. I think my favorite part was how it finally depicted Wolverine as a horrific murder machine and mutants in general as dangerous and terrifying monsters. The inescapable conclusion of the entire X-men movie franchise has been 1) Magneto was right all along and 2) mutants are too dangerous to exist.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:57
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Breetai posted:This was the best-scripted, best-directed, best-acted superhero movie of all time. It approached the subject with an expertly-tuned degree of gravitas, and does a wonderful job of painting a world through overheard snippets rather than exposition dumps and monologues. It's probably the superhero movie that credits its audience's intelligence the most as well, and is by all means a very well-crafted bit of media. i agree completely, and i think the bleakness was compounded by the way themes kept on getting brought up that would almost immediately be broken a little bit later. Like logan saying he doesn't like guns minutes before he blows a guys head off in the middle of a speech. or the entire movie-long hoorah about making sure the kids wouldn't have to fight anymore, except they do fight at the end anyway too. i think it's parallel to silver age comics in that marvel had written for children and family audiences for so long that it ended up with a child's view of what "maturity" is. so they decide to dip their toes into the R rating and now the mentor figure is an accidental genocider and 11 year olds are shooting people in the face. it's a juvenile view of Grim and Gritty, imo
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Apr 1, 2017 01:19
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Venuz Patrol posted:i agree completely, and i think the bleakness was compounded by the way themes kept on getting brought up that would almost immediately be broken a little bit later. Like logan saying he doesn't like guns minutes before he blows a guys head off in the middle of a speech. or the entire movie-long hoorah about making sure the kids wouldn't have to fight anymore, except they do fight at the end anyway too. or walking back laura's stunted development
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Apr 1, 2017 01:41
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Venuz Patrol posted:i agree completely, and i think the bleakness was compounded by the way themes kept on getting brought up that would almost immediately be broken a little bit later. Like logan saying he doesn't like guns minutes before he blows a guys head off in the middle of a speech. or the entire movie-long hoorah about making sure the kids wouldn't have to fight anymore, except they do fight at the end anyway too. Those parts were great because they showed how desperate everyone was. Did you really not get that? Logan had to use the gun despite his disdain for them because he felt like he had no other options left.
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Apr 1, 2017 09:18
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Doflamingo posted:Those parts were great because they showed how desperate everyone was. Did you really not get that? Logan had to use the gun despite his disdain for them because he felt like he had no other options left. And then at the end he stopped using the gun because he was too used to not using it. If only there was some kind of a running theme throughout the film about people being unable to change trying to stop people going down the same path as them. A shane they didn't do that.
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Apr 1, 2017 09:35
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