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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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forkboy84 posted:But after the Corbyn year I suspect you'll find the Labour right more willing to compromise with a left of centre candidate. I'll believe that when I see it. They're still trying to block the left and make sure we can't elect another leftwinger. Labour MPs should be excited about Momentum, ffs. Nobody is arguing for accelerationism.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:32
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Oh dear me posted:Nobody is arguing for accelerationism. I am. I mean I used to argue against it. But then I realise I hate the people in this country so gently caress yea let's gently caress this country to the ground baby.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:34
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Benjamin Arthur posted:I quite enthusiastically support the Labour Party and its leader. If Labour manages to defeat the Tories somehow I don't think it will be thanks to people like you who have nothing beyond condescending pessimism to offer. It'd be specifically thanks to people like me: lifelong Labour voters in marginal seats. gently caress your 'enthusiastic support' for Corbyn. It's worse than worthless.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:35
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Benjamin Arthur posted:Did you just have an epiphany that theres the perfect party out there for your third way horseshit and that all this time arguing pedantically has been somehow wasted? pissflaps is correct in dismissing the idea that a party that spent five years propping up Cameron's administration could be considered a party of the left, even the centre left.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:41
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Pissflaps posted:It'll be specifically thanks to people like me: lifelong Labour voters in marginal seats. Do you plan on volunteering for Labour in your marginal seat? If so you might want to get some practice in acknowledging the good that some of Corbyns policies could do.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:45
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Baron Corbyn posted:pissflaps is correct in dismissing the idea that a party that spent five years propping up Cameron's administration could be considered a party of the left, even the centre left. I don't actually consider the Liberal Democrats to be on the left at all really, I'd describe them as centre-right. The thing is New Labour are no more leftist at all and also belong to the centre-right. If you want a neoliberal party with "progressive" branding the Liberal Democrats are still the best fit.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:47
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Benjamin Arthur posted:Do you plan on volunteering for Labour in your marginal seat? If so you might want to get some practice in acknowledging the good that some of Corbyns policies could do. No. I'm a labour voter not a party member. Benjamin Arthur posted:I don't actually consider the Liberal Democrats to be on the left at all really, I'd describe them as centre-right. The thing is New Labour are no more leftist at all and also belong to the centre-right. If you want a neoliberal party with "progressive" branding the Liberal Democrats are still the best fit. Jfc.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:54
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Benjamin Arthur posted:Polling data couldn't accurately predict Brexit or the outcome of the last general election. I doubt theres sufficient evidence that the PLP undermining Corbyn has had no effect on Corbyn or the Labour parties approval ratings unless you go looking with a hefty dose of confirmation bias. As much as I have to reiterate this, the polling was "within the margin of error" wrong, not "most people actually think Corbyn's doing a good job" wrong. If the confidence interval of the polling was on the level of the Higgs boson, Corbyn would still be on a -24 rating at best.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:54
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TinTower posted:As much as I have to reiterate this, the polling was "within the margin of error" wrong, not "most people actually think Corbyn's doing a good job" wrong. The point argued was how well the polls could indicate the specific sources of Corbyns unpopularity, not the unpopularity itself.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:57
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Benjamin Arthur posted:The point argued was how well the polls could indicate the specific sources of Corbyns unpopularity, not the unpopularity itself. We've discussed polls that ask this question at length in this thread. It's never a fine toss up between 'the coup' and Corbyn being the reason.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:58
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Pissflaps posted:No. I'm a labour voter not a party member. So if Labour wins it will be thanks to people who complain for years and then do nothing when the time comes to actually remove the Tories. Got it.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:58
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Put me as Labour leader because by then people will be begging for Corbyn to come back once I intentionally gently caress everything up.
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Mar 31, 2017 18:59
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Jeremy Corbyn owns because all the green party etc voters who paid £3 to vote for him now have to defend his atrocious record and come to terms with the fact they have given the tories at least another decade in power
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Mar 31, 2017 19:02
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Extreme0 posted:Put me as Labour leader because by then people will be begging for Corbyn to come back once I intentionally gently caress everything up. People have been wishing for Ed Miliband back with his expertly ran campaign featuring the Ed stone and "controls on immigration" mugs. Plan seems to check out.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:03
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Benjamin Arthur posted:So if Labour wins it will be thanks to people who complain for years and then do nothing when the time comes to actually remove the Tories. Got it. Labour won't win an election with Corbyn in charge. When Labour does win - assuming it continues in its current form and is in a position to do so - it'll be because Labour voters like me vote for its candidates. Comrade Cheggorsky posted:Jeremy Corbyn owns because all the green party etc voters who paid £3 to vote for him now have to defend his atrocious record and come to terms with the fact they have given the tories at least another decade in power This doesn't actually bother them.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:03
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I like Corbyn.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:04
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Pissflaps posted:Labour won't win an election with Corbyn in charge. Opposed to Labour voters like me voting for their candidates?
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Mar 31, 2017 19:05
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:Jeremy Corbyn owns because all the green party etc voters who paid £3 to vote for him now have to defend his atrocious record and come to terms with the fact they have given the tories at least another decade in power Mmmmm, another dickhead more worried with schadenfreude than anything else. Great stuff.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:05
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It would be nice if he was a bit more angry about socialism sometimes but I'd much rather have him in charge of the country than any other politician I can think of.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:06
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:Jeremy Corbyn owns because all the green party etc voters who paid £3 to vote for him now have to defend his atrocious record and come to terms with the fact they have given the tories at least another decade in power Would have been far better if Liz Kendell won so that the Tories ideas could just win automatically.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:07
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Benjamin Arthur posted:Opposed to Labour voters like me voting for their candidates? Assuming you do vote and vote labour it'll be in spite of your efforts, not because of them.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:08
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Pissflaps posted:Assuming you do vote and vote labour it'll be in spite of your efforts, not because of them. 
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Mar 31, 2017 19:09
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:Jeremy Corbyn owns because all the green party etc voters who paid £3 to vote for him now have to defend his atrocious record and come to terms with the fact they have given the tories at least another decade in power Stop stealing my schadenfreude parasite. I got to it first.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:10
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I'm not sure what irony you think you've detected. By supporting Corbyn you've actively and objectively made Labour less likely to form a government.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:10
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Pissflaps posted:I'm not sure what irony you think you've detected. By supporting Corbyn you've actively and objectively made Labour less likely to form a government.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:15
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Benjamin Arthur posted:It's either the irony of you adding "assuming you vote Labour" regarding me; when all you do is post negatively about the party and its leader, or its the irony of you thinking that when a Labour victory comes it will be thanks to the great complaining pessimists who sad on their arse predicting doom and in reality were really hoping for some I told you so schadenfreude It's not safe to assume people who support Corbyn actually vote Labour. I post negatively about Labour and its leader because its a loving poo poo show and vulnerable people need it to be better. I'm a labour voter, not a Corbyn apologist. I'm not 'predicting doom'. The doom is now. Labour is hosed.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:19
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Oberleutnant posted:Should work now Since you didn't name and shame, it's The Emmaus Community. The link itself backs up the 40 hours for a bed claim. Here's the list of locations. Four pages worth. Simon Grainge is the chief exec, an ex cop based in exeter. Last one's a linkedin so if anyone actually *wants* his contact details and can't access, I can send those.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:24
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Pissflaps posted:It's not safe to assume people who support Corbyn actually vote Labour. It's not safe to assume people who support Corbyn will vote labour but we're supposed to trust you about being "lifelong labour supporter" when you support neither the leader or the parties original ideals? You don't have any more reason to doubt that I'll vote Labour than the reverse. The next election is ages away and Brexit is going to shake things up, regardless even if nothing changes significantly in that entire time theres still far better ways we can spend it than reading impotent rage about how Labour is hosed because Corbyn is bad and theres nothing anyone can do about it.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:27
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Comrade Cheggorsky posted:Jeremy Corbyn owns because all the green party etc voters who paid £3 to vote for him now have to defend his atrocious record and come to terms with the fact they have given the tories at least another decade in power Did you see or hear any of the other people who stood against Jeremy Corbyn for leadership of the Labour party?
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Mar 31, 2017 19:28
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You know it's only now, two decades later with people vehemently arguing that Labour is not supposed to be a leftist party, that I realise just how important changing Clause IV was and why the fight was quite so bloody at the time. Not just the abandonment of the call for common ownership of the means of production - that specific form of words was always going to ring alarm bells - but the specifics of the new language. It calls for power, wealth and opportunity to be in the hands of "the many" - not "all", not "the people", not even "most", but "many". It sounds nice on the face but that is one hell of a detail to hide devils in, because it instantly allows you to split the people into deserving and undeserving, a massive psychic shift far more destructive to socialist principles than arguing over whether or not British Rail should come back. And for anyone claiming that such a change was required to win (and those complaining the current shitshow is all the media's fault), Labour was born into a populace far more right-wing than we can even conceive now, with laws on the books that allowed them to be arrested simply for holding a meeting. They changed the entire political face of the country in less time than Thatcher was in power, and UKIP have proven that it is still entirely possible for this to be done in the modern age. The PLP#s intransigence hasn't helped but ultimately Corbyn has to shoulder the majority of the blame for not taking the fight to the Tories.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:31
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Benjamin Arthur posted:It's not safe to assume people who support Corbyn will vote labour but we're supposed to trust you about being "lifelong labour supporter" when you support neither the leader or the parties original ideals? You don't have any more reason to doubt that I'll vote Labour than the reverse. I don't care if you believe me or not and it doesn't matter: any future labour win will be thanks to people like me - or in your paranoid imagination people like who I am pretending to be - labour voters in marginal seats. The very people Corbyn is alienating in droves. quote:The next election is ages away and Brexit is going to shake things up, regardless even if nothing changes significantly in that entire time theres still far better ways we can spend it than reading impotent rage about how Labour is hosed because Corbyn is bad and theres nothing anyone can do about it. Three years is not 'ages away' and labour has made itself irrelevant to the Brexit process. What you choose to read is your concern.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:34
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The odd dichotomy is that while I would probably appreciate it more at the moment if Corbyn was more aggressive I would probably want him to win less if he was.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:35
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make gibraltar great again
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Mar 31, 2017 19:37
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Watch Theresa May starts a land war in Spain before the election to secure British Land
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Mar 31, 2017 19:38
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Pissflaps posted:I don't care if you believe me or not and it doesn't matter: any future labour win will be thanks to people like me - or in your paranoid imagination people like who I am pretending to be - labour voters in marginal seats. The very people Corbyn is alienating in droves. "in your paranoid mind"? lol you're the one who first prefaced with "assuming you vote and vote Labour" after I'd told you I do. Three years is indeed "ages away" in politics. How likely did you consider a Donald Trump presidency three years ago?
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Mar 31, 2017 19:39
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Benjamin Arthur posted:"in your paranoid mind"? It's not paranoid to acknowledge that many of Corbyn's most ardent supporters in this thread dont vote labour. quote:Three years is indeed "ages away" in politics. How likely did you consider a Donald Trump presidency three years ago? Corbyn is not going to become popular in any time scale.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:42
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Pissflaps posted:It's not paranoid to acknowledge that many of Corbyn's most ardent supporters in this thread dont vote labour. Pissflaps posted:Corbyn is not going to become popular in any time scale. And Brendan Rodgers will never finish higher than 5th with Liverpool. Not everyones concerned with your self important predictions dressed up as fact.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:45
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OwlFancier posted:It would be nice if he was a bit more angry about socialism sometimes but I'd much rather have him in charge of the country than any other politician I can think of. Me too. But he's not going to be in charge of the country, and I'd rather almost any Labour MP in charge of the country before Theresa May. Benjamin Arthur posted:Which ardent Corbyn supporters in this thread won't be voting Labour next election? What he's doing is referencing that a number of thread regulars voted for the Lib Dems in 2010. Which somehow translates into never voting Labour & not voting Labour in 2020. It's Pissflaps. Even when he's right (about Corbyn having as much chance of becoming PM as me) he's disingenuous, smug, full of poo poo or some combination of the above. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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Mar 31, 2017 19:47
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forkboy84 posted:Me too. But he's not going to be in charge of the country, and I'd rather almost any Labour MP in charge of the country before Theresa May. Hmm, I'd not want one that isn't committed to actually reversing their social policies, because I think without that we'll end up in this same position again a little further down the road. While a win on a less committed platform might bring some immediate reprieve, I don't plan on dying quite soon enough that I could actually sleep easy for very long without a Labour that can build up some proper institutions to make our lives better.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:49
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Benjamin Arthur posted:Which ardent Corbyn supporters in this thread won't be voting Labour next election? I haven't a clue how people will ultimately vote, we only know how people tell us they did vote when last given the opportunity. quote:And Brendan Rodgers will never finish higher than 5th with Liverpool. Not everyones concerned with your self important predictions dressed up as fact. The departure of Suarez demonstrated the veracity of that prediction. I stand by it entirely. Though it seems my predictions have had quite an effect on you given the ease with which you recall them. Congratulations though I think you're literally the last person in this thread who thinks Corbyn has a chance of being the next prime minister.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:50
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