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Yeah I'm gonna lean towards Marvel oversaturing the market and books that aren't marquee titles or are named after big characters generally doing lousy anyway more than "Well guys looks like our little social experiment of  black people, gay people, latinos and women failed, time to go back to the drawing board" being the culprit here
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Apr 1, 2017 01:42
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My personal take is that there's a very small minority on one side that want the diversity, a very small minority who hate it, and the majority of people don't loving care. All they want to do is read stories they enjoy, and not read stories they don't enjoy. Not motivated by politics, how diverse the cast is, who's the creator or whatever. The only reason it looks to be a 'major' point of contention is because we all live in an incredibly tiny bubble where the loudest voices of both sides exist.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:54
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Big 2 comics and most their fans mostly suck. I'm going to read some Euro comics then come back when Hickman or Morrison do something. Or Adam Hughes, gifted with the hands of God for his rendition of women. I wish the market could grow so we can see what shakes out
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Apr 1, 2017 01:57
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Onmi posted:My personal take is that there's a very small minority on one side that want the diversity, a very small minority who hate it, and the majority of people don't loving care. All they want to do is read stories they enjoy, and not read stories they don't enjoy. Not motivated by politics, how diverse the cast is, who's the creator or whatever. I think this is fairly accurate. While I do think there should be a good honest attempt at diversity, even sometimes to the point of forcing it when it's needed, I just want to read good books and generally don't care about the ins and outs of how those good books come to be. If a diversity push gets me books like Mockingbird or Unstoppable Wasp then I'm fine with it. I also think the loudest people on both sides that do most of the bitching don't even read what they're bitching about. They just read incendiary articles on sites like Bleeding Cool that are poorly written and with the intention of just stirring poo poo. X-O fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 02:28
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They didn't make up the guy's quotes. edit: Here's the actual thing sited if you want to avoid spin. Alonso on how artists don't matter is in another part linked at the bottom  https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/37152/marvels-david-gabriel-2016-market-shift Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 02:36
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Teenage Fansub posted:They didn't make up the guy's quotes. The quotes are honest and while they're not what people necessarily want to hear they're not meant to rile people up. They're also just snippets of longer discussions that you can read elsewhere in full. The articles around them are garbage clickbaity faux journalism trying to get people up in arms.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:40
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Onmi posted:My personal take is that there's a very small minority on one side that want the diversity, a very small minority who hate it, and the majority of people don't loving care. All they want to do is read stories they enjoy, and not read stories they don't enjoy. Not motivated by politics, how diverse the cast is, who's the creator or whatever. I think it's mostly that the pro-diversity group also tends to be younger people who don't buy as many comics. Comics are an expensive-rear end hobby, especially for younger people in this economy. If Marvel really wanted to attract that crowd, they'd have a page-a-day webcomic or a ninety-nine-cent, cheaply-printed black-and-white magazine.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:52
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Here is what bleedingcool is getting their stuff from in case anyone wants to read it https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/37154/marvel-retailer-summit-day-1 Wanderer posted:I think it's mostly that the pro-diversity group also tends to be younger people who don't buy as many comics. Comics are an expensive-rear end hobby, especially for younger people in this economy. Yeah seriously there's no way you can expect most ....ughhhh...millennials to afford even most of a given line considering you're also looking at dc and image/other indie comics in a given week And i also agree Marvel could try do something with their infinite webcomics that aren't just dump off crap like extraneous guardians books or loving slapstick and try putting out actual books online-only for cheap site fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 02:58
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quote:Alonso capped off the discussion on this topic with a personal anecdote. "I tell this story all the time," he said. "My wife is Korean, and I’ve got a Korean nephew. This Korean-American kid couldn't sleep at night. At 4:00 AM, he's looking at the ceiling because he just found out the new Hulk is a Korean-American kid. He's terrified he's going to be the next Hulk. I had to get on the phone with him and tell him, ‘you're OK. First of all, it's not a curse, and second of all, there can only be one Hulk. But put down the phone and settle down for a minute. Just let it settle in for a second.’ This little kid suddenly identified with the Hulk in a way he never had before. He'd seen the Hulk before, he liked Hulk, he liked Captain America, but now, suddenly, he can actually imagine himself as the Hulk. I think that's a cool little story."
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Apr 1, 2017 03:09
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That kid rules, it's the appropriate reaction to have at the prospect of being the Hulk. Fear, but also excitement.
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Apr 1, 2017 03:16
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Roth posted:Aren't comic book sales in general declining anyway? It's not that big of a shock that new characters and just about anybody that's not an A-lister isn't selling all that well to begin with. They were for a very long time. Rebirth gave DC their strongest sales in 10+ years.
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Apr 1, 2017 03:42
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This quote in part 3 doesn't sound that great for people like rhyno at the end of the chain, but maybe I'm just getting confused again, i thought returnability was actually a good thing for you guys Edit: probably better to have the full quote quote:What we heard people tell us coming out of ComicsPRO was that Marvel was pointing to DC as a reason for market problems. You've talked a little bit of that with regard to returns being in the pipe and that being an issue. I guess the question is do you think that's a fair characterization of what you were saying? Or do you think that is only focusing on one part of it? site fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 03:46
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DC is eating Marvel's lunch. David Gabriel went on an angry rant about returnable comics and double shipping a few weeks ago, he even called it "unfair to the competition." Marvel is losing ground and they can't figure out why DC isn't. I guarantee you that in the very near future it's going to descend back into the bullshit pissing match that used to dominate the inter-company interactions because everyone in Marvel's marketing dept acts like a loving child.
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Apr 1, 2017 03:51
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Honestly reading all this poo poo it's just more of an excuse to write the Big 2 as corporate entities off (if you haven't done this yet... why not?) and only care when someone interesting works for them or when a book can reliably said to be good.
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Apr 1, 2017 03:56
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I'll just wait for Captain Mar-Vel #1 in October 2018 and Gabriel losing his mind that it didn't do as well as Captain Mar-Vel #1 from this upcoming December.
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Apr 1, 2017 03:57
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I think the people saying that them whining about diversity while there's an event about Nazis going on is hilarious are 100% correct and cool Also isn't there some conspiracy theory that all the character changes were really meant as Disney's testbed for changing the MCU actors when the current ones decide to stop playing the roles?
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Apr 1, 2017 03:59
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Oh and their comments about ASM #25 being a massive success, there's a discussion post about how many unsold copies are sitting in shops right now AND they loving 100% overshipped it to bump their numbers again. gently caress every single person in Marvel's marketing department.
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Apr 1, 2017 04:01
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Rhyno posted:Oh and their comments about ASM #25 being a massive success, there's a discussion post about how many unsold copies are sitting in shops right now AND they loving 100% overshipped it to bump their numbers again.  please pull the veil some more about how BS that entire discussion was. (not be condescending. I love it.)
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Apr 1, 2017 04:06
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Mr Hootington posted:
I don't have insight on every aspect of it, we're just one small store. But when they blatantly lie it pisses me off.
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Apr 1, 2017 04:08
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Rhyno posted:Oh and their comments about ASM #25 being a massive success, there's a discussion post about how many unsold copies are sitting in shops right now AND they loving 100% overshipped it to bump their numbers again. I have to admit my eyes popped a bit when a single issue cost $10. Is it basically a floppy assed trade or what? Rhyno posted:gently caress every single person in Marvel's marketing department. Where's Carol Kalish when you need her?
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Apr 1, 2017 04:12
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Rhyno posted:Oh and their comments about ASM #25 being a massive success, there's a discussion post about how many unsold copies are sitting in shops right now AND they loving 100% overshipped it to bump their numbers again. This gives me life.
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Apr 1, 2017 04:12
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Okay I was wrong it was only a 75% overship.
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Apr 1, 2017 04:14
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:This gives me life. I've probably said it before but i too very much appreciate the window into reality rhyno provides Thank you for your service 
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Apr 1, 2017 04:18
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Rhyno posted:I don't have insight on every aspect of it, we're just one small store. But when they blatantly lie it pisses me off. the retailer view you give is very helpful your guy gardener cosplay is just icing.
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Apr 1, 2017 04:21
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Dealing with Marvel is the only thing about my job that sucks. Otherwise I love comics retail.
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Apr 1, 2017 04:25
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Rhyno posted:Dealing with Marvel is the only thing about my job that sucks. Otherwise I love comics retail. What about their Star Wars line? Are they doing healthy numbers for you? The relaunch of SW was the big reason I even started going back to the comic store again (that and DC Rebirth) and no joke i'm droping anywhere from $30-$50 per visit between SW and DC. I also remember reading that Star Wars #1 actually surpassed Jim Lee's X-Men #1 from the early 90s as best selling single issue. I think Marvel readers will start buying again once Scarlet Spider and good X-Men are on the shelves. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 1, 2017 04:29
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Lightning Lord posted:I have to admit my eyes popped a bit when a single issue cost $10. Is it basically a floppy assed trade or what? Yeah, it's like 4x the size of a regular issue. Deadpool does it every so often as well. Deadpool had a whole crossover in one issue a few months back. It was cool.
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Apr 1, 2017 04:32
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The SW line put up very good numbers for us. They've fallen quite a bit from their launch numbers but they're easily four times the old Dark Horse numbers on the low end. X-Men Prime has sold okay so far, let's hope it continues with Gold next week.
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Apr 1, 2017 04:34
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I thought this story was going another way
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Apr 1, 2017 05:42
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Mr President posted:I also remember reading that Star Wars #1 actually surpassed Jim Lee's X-Men #1 from the early 90s as best selling single issue. quote:I think Marvel readers will start buying again once Scarlet Spider and good X-Men are on the shelves.
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Apr 1, 2017 07:08
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I would like to live in the world where Kaine coming back saves Marvel...
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Apr 1, 2017 07:13
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:I would like to live in the world where Kaine coming back saves Marvel... Sorry now it's insane rear end in a top hat Ben Reily.
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Apr 1, 2017 07:16
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CharlestheHammer posted:Sorry now it's insane rear end in a top hat Ben Reily. Yes, that is Kaine. But then he found a demi-goddess in Huston and that began an adventure where we find out he has a heart of gold.
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Apr 1, 2017 07:22
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:Yes, that is Kaine. But then he found a demi-goddess in Huston and that began an adventure where we find out he has a heart of gold. No I mean they are doing one with Ben out of clone conspiracy, were he helped the Jackal for reasons I don't remember.
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Apr 1, 2017 07:25
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No Ben was the jackel
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Apr 1, 2017 07:32
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Oh either way he is the one getting the book,though maybe I am misremembering that too.
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Apr 1, 2017 07:33
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The series is called Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider
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Apr 1, 2017 07:36
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Wanderer posted:I think it's mostly that the pro-diversity group also tends to be younger people who don't buy as many comics. Comics are an expensive-rear end hobby, especially for younger people in this economy. I have a small sample size example of this in one of the Goon discords I'm in. A few people super excited about Ms Marvel and Squirrel Girl but all they do is read the Funny panel thread and then don't actually go and buy the books because... well they aren't into comics. And that's fine, ya know. I like plenty of stuff I don't drop money on due to expense or just not enough interest in an aspect of it, like the mechanics for Warhammer. But there are a lot of economic problems going into comic books as well. Marvels pricing, argument to drive pricing higher and general, from my perspective anyway, poor quality of writing just doesn't do anything for me. Roth posted:The series is called Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider I know someone who was clamoring for Ben Reilly's return to the role of the Scarlet Spider. I wonder where the Monkey Paw is.
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Apr 1, 2017 09:32
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I've said this before: A TON of nerd fandom has been swallowed whole by Alt-right thinking, ive literally encountered people boycotting Marvel and going towards DC just to keep their sad, white male power fantasies BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 09:37
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Onmi posted:all they do is read the Funny panel thread and then don't actually go and buy the books Name and shame.
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Apr 1, 2017 10:13
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