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IronSaber posted:I have Shbobobohbbhbh on ignore since all his opinions are terrible anyways. Mining Guild TIE Fighter. I think that's been the first ever instance of the TIE being used in number by an organization that wasn't The Galactic Empire and it was a cool way to show the Guilds association. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 00:10
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Shbobdb posted:When I talk about why we need to avoid the limiting concept of canon and how books in general are a poo poo medium for Star Wars, this would make a fine exhibit in my presentation. Why do you think that, out of interest? I actually agree with you in that I think it sounds boring and kind of trite, but being those things doesn't stop it from being at home within Star Wars, and whether they're appropriate to the franchise should be at least as big a consideration as whether you personally like them or not. Star Wars began with and makes plenty of use of soap opera stories like those. Whether Luke or Han would end up with Leia was a big part of the original trilogy, and responsible for much of the speculation between movies. Love also both damned and saved Anakin. I don't watch Star Wars for melodramatic love stories, but they've always been a part of it whether you do or not and some people do enjoy them. That story might not be for you, but not every story has to be, especially in a tv show lots of episodes per season. Some episodes can be for and appeal to other people and other types of fans. I don't even see what it has to do with canon, or why it would help prove that canon is limiting either. Whether the story was written or not has nothing to do with canon. It's just a story some guys making it wanted to tell. That they made it would automatically have made it canon, but they didn't make that story because canon exists, nor was the story dictated by or limited in some manner because of canon. tsob fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 00:26
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Books seem to be a poor medium for Star Wars because Star Wars books are universally poo poo. What can you do? As for canon: Shbobdb posted:You mean you end up with a fun, imagination-positive universe where people can choose which and what aspects they like? Odysseus is the similar but different when presented as an traditional Greek epic poem, athenian tragedy, Roman nationalist epic, etc. They can and do contradict each other and that's fine. That doesn't change my enjoyment of the character. The "canon" approach to wide-sweeping fiction is more likely to produce a technically competent steaming pile of poo poo, like what we see with Star War because it drives the shrinking universe where everybody is related to everybody. It's not like I'm the only one to notice this either. Baronjutter posted:If this was starwars and this was all we've seen of earth there'd be a huge wookipedia article about : vermin posted:
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Apr 1, 2017 00:54
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I wish I could've made this post. The Star Wars EU deserves as much piss taking as possible. That one Mormon who talked to Miller on that transport ship was a plant put there by Mao and is actually a clone of Mao's long lost drug addicted cousin, and his real name is Brewce Endersin. He is the greatest secret agent specializing in talking to bitter people and instilling hope in them while they're being transported from planet to planet.
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This reminds me that I still have a few episodes of the second season of The Expanse to watch before I'm caught up.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:17
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You should. Expanse is a good show.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:19
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The EU is a great collection of stories. Some poo poo, some less poo poo. Some good. They're so disparate and all over the place any judgement would be a sweeping one. My issue with the EU was always how writers and fans and editors and much masturbation was all spent trying to paper over stories that clearly had no business being part of a coherent world. Kyle Katarn fights a Sith with whiskers because some dude at LucasArts thought it'd be cool. I don't need an audiobook explaining where Jared was. Someone else pointed out the same thing is true of force lightning. Economic storytelling reasons would argue that Sidious should really be one of a handful of force users who can use it. But when I play a videogame as Johnny Slices People With a Glow Sword? Yeah, I want force lightning too. On a different note, I'm a few episodes into the latest season. So so much better than season 2's aimless wanderings.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:29
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Shbobdb posted:What can you do? Not make sweeping generalizations for one. I could say games are a poo poo medium for Star Wars too by that measure, since most of them are held to be poo poo. The original X-Wing and TIE Fighter games, KOTOR, Podracer and a few others are good though. By the same measure the Wraith Squadron books and at least some of the film novelizations are good, and I've heard a few others are too, even if I've not read them to find out. Shbobdb posted:As for canon: That's a nice argument for the merits of not sticking to canon. I still fail to see how the existence of that story has anything to do with it. That story could exist in a system of canon or a system of no canon. Hell, by your argument you could just view it as a possible interpretation of Asajj and her story, but one that not everyone has to know or like.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:37
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tsob posted:That's a nice argument for the merits of not sticking to canon. I still fail to see how the existence of that story has anything to do with it. That story could exist in a system of canon or a system of no canon. Hell, by your argument you could just view it as a possible interpretation of Asajj and her story, but one that not everyone has to know or like. That's what I'm doing. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to call it out for being dumb. You can do both at once. Especially when it's getting chocolate on my peanut butter, so to speak.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:44
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Shbobdb posted:That's what I'm doing. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to call it out for being dumb. You can do both at once. Especially when it's getting chocolate on my peanut butter, so to speak. Your post that it'd make a fine exhibition for an argument as to why canon is bad would suggest that this story is only bad because of canon or only possible because of canon, rather than that you just don't want this to be canon. Which implies you do care about canon and just don't want that story to be part of it. I also don't see what's dumb about it. Boring to me, sure. Dumb? That's a much less subjective judgement though.
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Apr 1, 2017 01:49
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I only care about these things insofar as 1) They are dumb 2) Rebels is increasingly borrowing from dumb things and 3) when I mention that things are dumb and bad people get super testy. Plus TVIV is great for sweet new avatars. It's a great bonus.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:02
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Well, if you call things dumb for nebulous reasons on a regular basis then it's really no surprise people will call you dumb back I suppose. That said, I still have no reason why you think the Asajj thing is dumb. At least presuming dumb means more than "I don't like it". It certainly seems to fit within the narrative of Star Wars, where melodramatic love is a thing people act from several times in the movies.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:28
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AndyElusive posted:Mining Guild TIE Fighter. The Guild TIEs were also a very nice tweak on the original design.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:36
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IronSaber posted:I have Shbobobohbbhbh on ignore since all his opinions are terrible anyways.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:52
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I'm just pleased as hell that the TIE Defenders made it into Nu-Canon. Weren't they originally from the TIE Fighter game?
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Apr 1, 2017 02:58
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VolticSurge posted:I'm partial to the Arquitens,myself. It's what I imagine a mini-Star Destroyer would look like. Technically the Arquitens is from the Clone Wars series, but I really do like seeing it still in use in the Empire.
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Apr 1, 2017 02:59
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I really like the Gozanti cruisers. It's cool to see a non-wedge shaped Imperial ship and it's multi-role capabilities are neat.
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Apr 1, 2017 03:12
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'm just pleased as hell that the TIE Defenders made it into Nu-Canon. Weren't they originally from the TIE Fighter game? The real test will be if the stealth TIE makes it in.
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Apr 1, 2017 05:35
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LongDarkNight posted:I really like the Gozanti cruisers. It's cool to see a non-wedge shaped Imperial ship and it's multi-role capabilities are neat. Oh yeah, I really liked that SIGINT Gozanti
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Apr 1, 2017 06:31
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Come on Assault Gunboat! You can make it into rebels.
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Apr 1, 2017 07:00
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Kingtheninja posted:The real test will be if the stealth TIE makes it in. TIE Phantoms were pretty awesome  .
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Apr 1, 2017 07:09
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I love that the Interdictors were reintroduced as well if I'm talking about big ships.mllaneza posted:The Guild TIEs were also a very nice tweak on the original design. Ya I dug the bright yellow, hazard stripes and the missing solar panel that actually improves the pilots peripherial vision but yet somehow makes the ship less manueverable.
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Apr 1, 2017 09:53
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AndyElusive posted:I love that the Interdictors were reintroduced as well if I'm talking about big ships. Interdictors are a bit of a problem though, as the rule for Hyperdrive in old-EU has always been you can't Jump in a gravity well. Interdictors work by generating artificial gravity wells to yank out passing ships in Hyperspace and hold ones already in the area from escaping.
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Apr 1, 2017 10:21
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Interdictors are a bit of a problem though, as the rule for Hyperdrive in old-EU has always been you can't Jump in a gravity well. Interdictors work by generating artificial gravity wells to yank out passing ships in Hyperspace and hold ones already in the area from escaping. How is that a problem?
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Apr 1, 2017 12:30
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Chickenwalker posted:How is that a problem? You mean aside from the U-Wing making that daring last-second escape to Hyperspace while in the atmosphere in Rogue One?
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Apr 1, 2017 12:43
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So now that Maul is dead and Vader is probably too focus on the main cell, what the odds the enemy jedi force next season is Brannis? She still around probably as the last Inquisitor at this point. Doubt it, but it could be a way for Ashoka to return.
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Apr 1, 2017 13:08
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You mean aside from the U-Wing making that daring last-second escape to Hyperspace while in the atmosphere in Rogue One? You didn't cite that in your original post, but yeah. JJ Abrams' dumb rear end didn't care about internal consistency so this is the world we live in now. It all started with the Falcon jumping when it was still in the cargo bay of that freighter and then later jumping straight into the atmosphere of a planet (which under previous rules should have blown the Falcon up). After Rogue One and TFA, I realized that for all they're talked about, Leland Che and story group have no actual say when it comes down to it. The directors have all the power, and they aren't going to be dissuaded from what they think is a really cool thing to do with their action figures by being told it breaks the internal consistency of the universe. And Disney isn't going to give Story Group the power to overrule the writer or director, so they've basically become the court stenographer. Lucas was God in the Star Wars universe, so he was usually cognizant of the rules he'd already established, and at worst he tried to retcon things so that they made sense within G Canon. This was his story and he knew all the rules and if it seemed like he changed the rules well no, actually, he had always intended the rules to be that way. Basically what I'm saying is, Rogue One showed me that we're basically going to get a bunch of vignettes of stuff people have been dying to do with their Star Wars toys since they were kids. That's going to give us some cool rear end poo poo like Vader wrecking dudes and the Scarif space battle, but it's also going to give us a bunch of dumb poo poo like Rey being able to beast Kylo with 0 training or the destruction of Hosnian Prime being visible from halfway across the galaxy on Takodana.
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Apr 1, 2017 15:26
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Chickenwalker posted:Lucas was God in the Star Wars universe, so he was usually cognizant of the rules he'd already established, and at worst he tried to retcon things so that they made sense within G Canon. This was his story and he knew all the rules and if it seemed like he changed the rules well no, actually, he had always intended the rules to be that way. I remember reading a post in one of these threads a while ago that really stuck with me about Lucas working on the Clone Wars story arc about a stealth-drive ship. It was something about how one of writing staff quipped a line from Empire(?) saying "no ship that size has a stealth generator" and Lucas just paused for a beat and said "Well, this one does." I think you could draw a few conclusions from that, but it amused me in a "this is my story, I make the rules" way.
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Apr 1, 2017 16:40
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Chickenwalker posted:Basically what I'm saying is, Rogue One showed me that we're basically going to get a bunch of vignettes of stuff people have been dying to do with their Star Wars toys since they were kids. That's going to give us some cool rear end poo poo like Vader wrecking dudes and the Scarif space battle, but it's also going to give us a bunch of dumb poo poo like Rey being able to beast Kylo with 0 training or the destruction of Hosnian Prime being visible from halfway across the galaxy on Takodana. Rey beating Kylo isn't so unbelievable when you realize he's a colossal fuckup with Grand-daddy issues. He really wants to be Vader and everything he does is what Vader would clearly do AND IT DOESN'T WORK, WHY DIDN'T IT WORK AAARGGGH DIE CONSOLE! DIE!
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Apr 1, 2017 16:46
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Rey beating Kylo isn't so unbelievable when you realize he's a colossal fuckup with Grand-daddy issues. He really wants to be Vader and everything he does is what Vader would clearly do AND IT DOESN'T WORK, WHY DIDN'T IT WORK AAARGGGH DIE CONSOLE! DIE! Dude had a Bowcaster size hole in him too.
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Apr 1, 2017 17:00
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Also, honestly, he had just killed his own father. He thought that'd make him closer to the Dark Side like it did for Anakin when Anakin killed the younglings, but the novels say (and the film tried to imply this) he actually felt a strong pull to the light due to his regret. Rey, on the other hand, was clear of purpose: revenge for the loss of her father-figure. Doubt makes one weak in the force and only one of them doubted themselves.
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Apr 1, 2017 17:10
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Covok posted:Also, honestly, he has just killed his own father. He thought that'd make him closer to the Dark Side like it did for Anakin, but the novels (and the film tried to imply this) he actually felt a strong pull to the light due to his regret. Rey, on the other hand, was clear of purpose. Doubt makes one weak in the force and only one of them doubted themselves. I actually really love Kylo Ren as a villain, because you do not know which way he will jump or how far he will go to prove he is Big Bad Vader's grandson. And that makes him goddamn terrifying as a character. Vader would calmly kill a commanding officer for failure, promote the next guy down, and that would be the end of it. Kylo Ren might do anything up to sinking the entire ship for failure because THAT'S WHAT VADER WOULD DO! 
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Apr 1, 2017 17:16
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I love Kylo Ren mostly because he's the in-universe Star Wars turbo-nerd, collecting all the best memorobilia for himself, scouring the galaxy for the best NRFB merch, and whining when someone else gets a collectible he can't have or removing it from existence entirely so that no one can have it.
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Apr 1, 2017 17:23
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I actually really love Kylo Ren as a villain, because you do not know which way he will jump or how far he will go to prove he is Big Bad Vader's grandson. And that makes him goddamn terrifying as a character. I'm hoping he turns it around within the next movie and we get something a little more interesting than the same villain throughout all three movies. I'd like to see a Star Wars character with some of the nuance Jaime Lannister has in GoT to where they're still kind of a prick but you want to root for them in their struggle to make amends, and not an 11th hour Hail Mary conversion to the light side that saves the day. I've got a feeling though that either he's going to get iced unceremoniously or go out in a really shallow archetypal heroic sacrifice.
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Apr 1, 2017 17:27
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I don't like Kylo Ren as a villain, I don't like TFA, and I don't think JJ Abrams is any good as a director, he's especially bad at doing space scifi. TFA just had way too many problems for me to like it.
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Apr 1, 2017 17:53
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Interdictors are a bit of a problem though, as the rule for Hyperdrive in old-EU has always been you can't Jump in a gravity well. Interdictors work by generating artificial gravity wells to yank out passing ships in Hyperspace and hold ones already in the area from escaping. I mean from an esthetic point of view Interdictors are cool looking canon Star Destroyer varients. From a story telling stand point they prevent protagonist ships from jumping out when the Empire arrives somewhere to gently caress poo poo up. Who cares about the pseudo science behind why it would or wouldn't work in-universe? It doesn't yank me out of the story when I see one with its gravity wells or anything. Now that I think of it, if Tarkin had sent an Interdictor instead of Vader or if Vader had arrived with one instead of his ISD all the Rebels trying to escape Scarif would have been screwed and we would have had no Star Wars.
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Apr 1, 2017 18:33
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"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" It seems like gravity wells are independent of ability to travel through hyperspace.
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Apr 1, 2017 19:31
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you gotta do the equations to avoid the gravity wells, duh
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Apr 1, 2017 19:58
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Shbobdb posted:"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" It would also seem that driving into trucks would be independent of the ability to drive down streets, if someone said that without precise calculations, you could crash into a building or trees on the side of the road. Now, if you asked C1-10P, it would gladly tell you of all the ways you could die.
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Apr 1, 2017 19:59
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Chickenwalker posted:I'm hoping he turns it around within the next movie and we get something a little more interesting than the same villain throughout all three movies. I think Kylo is already pretty interesting as a character, and beyond finding gratuitous enjoyment in some of the fan service Kylo and Finn were probably the only two things I liked in The Force Awakens. I like that he's a messed up and childish character because it means he has room to grow as a character, especially after killing his father (or perhaps Han helping him kill himself) quite obviously didn't bring him the relief from angst that he wanted. Whether he actually does grow or not as a character in further films is of course a different matter, and if he doesn't my enjoyment of him will probably sour because his wild and rather ineffectual anger can't hold up for even two movies - but I loved it as a beginning. There's a pretty good chance that Abrams won't do more with him I suppose, but I hope he does. Even just superficially I think his character provided a lot of the enjoyment in the film, with scenes like him raging out in his chambers and the two Stormtroopers coming along outside and just noping the gently caress out, turning around and walking away because they're not dealing with that poo poo. tsob fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 20:04
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Fortunately Abrams isn't directing this one, or the next one, so hopefully they'll turn out to be better than the mess TFA was
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Apr 1, 2017 20:07
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