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ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

daslog posted:

Ive had a couple of shitzus. In hindsight I wish I had spent more time training them when they were puppies. It's too east to just pick them up when they are doing somethings bad.

If I had treated them more like large dogs they would have been better behaved.

Got a neighbour with one and it'll charge my dog every time it sees her. Full on aggression and enough to make my dog react by barking back and going defensive.
Obviously, *I* get the dirty looks, while I get my dog in a sit and stupid neighbour has to pick-up and muzzle her dog with her hand, because it's still freaking out.
It's bad enough that my dog is now becoming uncomfortable with other small dogs when she's on leash.

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Nostalgia4Dogges
Jun 18, 2004

Only emojis can express my pure, simple stupidity.

So I was under the impression a week after the second parvo vaccine dogs were fine to socialize anywhere. My vet said not until after the third, which comes 3-4 weeks after the 2nd one at about three months

Is it just a matter of professional opinion? She's a great vet, I feel she is a bit overly cautious about things, which is probably warranted. For example: is highly against any and all bones or antlers etc--pretty much anything you can't indent with the press of your finger

Crooked Booty
Apr 2, 2009
arrr

Nostalgia4Dogges posted:

So I was under the impression a week after the second parvo vaccine dogs were fine to socialize anywhere. My vet said not until after the third, which comes 3-4 weeks after the 2nd one at about three months

Is it just a matter of professional opinion? She's a great vet, I feel she is a bit overly cautious about things, which is probably warranted. For example: is highly against any and all bones or antlers etc--pretty much anything you can't indent with the press of your finger
It has very little to do with the number of vaccines and much more to do with the age of the puppy when given the vaccine. Puppies get antibodies to parvo from their moms, and those antibodies wear off over time. The puppy can't properly respond to vaccination and make his own antibodies to parvo until those maternal antibodies are gone. The age at which maternal immunity is gone and the puppy can respond to vaccination varies from puppy to puppy but is generally thought to occur before 16 weeks. So most conservative recommendations are for the puppy to get a final parvo vaccine between 14 and 16 weeks of age. In places with tons of parvo, like where I live, we try to give the last vaccine right at 16 weeks to be safe.

And now there's research suggesting that maybe the last vaccine should really be at more like 18-20 weeks in high risk areas. In theory, this may be especially true for puppies from responsible breeders with recently well-vaccinated mothers, and less of an issue with random shelter pups that probably didn't get much maternal immunity to begin with.

Also a dog (and especially a puppy) can break a tooth on anything remotely hard to chew on. If you're willing to spend the money on root canals and tooth extractions if this happens, feel free to feed bones and antlers. If you're going to balk at the cost of fixing broken teeth and would instead let your dog live with a painful mouth for years, then you should probably stick to softer chews.

It's all about calculated risks. FWIW, I'm a veterinarian, and I give my dog bones and antlers under supervision, but I would never take my puppy to a pet store, public park, or other high-risk place before about 18 weeks of age. There are plenty of opportunities to socialize a puppy without going to places with lots of strange dog germs.

Crooked Booty fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Apr 1, 2017

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

Smoosh
U.K. It's a bit different, vets go on health and weight for the first set of injections which will be at 8 weeks minimum, then it's four weeks to the next set and then another four weeks till they can socialise or leave the garden. It's not uncommon for toy breeds not to be allowed down on the ground till 20 weeks+

I don't think there is a specific law like there is for not being able to sell a pup under 8 weeks old, but I would assume allowing a dog down in the ground in a public place like a street or a park before the vaccination course is complete could (and will) get you taken to court by the RSPCA for animal cruelty here.

Nostalgia4Dogges
Jun 18, 2004

Only emojis can express my pure, simple stupidity.


All great info, thanks. I think I just misinterpreted the information I've heard over the years and growing up. Oh they can actually leave the house after the 2nd shot! Nah they can go anywhere after the second! No! Don't let them leave the house at all and use pee pads until they're 18 weeks!

I was googling around, trying to find it again, but I swore I saw anti-vaxer-esque articles about doing it after the 2nd set to help build natural immunity or some poo poo

I'm not going to lie, I was completely negligent before. Went everywhere with my last dog, many high traffic areas, before he had all his shots. Granted, he was six months.

He's been socializing a lot with vaccinated dogs and exposed to lots of environmental stimuli. As impatient as I am, guess I'll take caution this time around. Going to look into some puppy classes where dogs are at the same vaccination stage

Tree Dude
May 26, 2012

AND MY SONG IS...
I took Frankenstein to visit my mom's boxer Olive and thought this picture was pretty cute.

Old Swerdlow
Jul 24, 2008
Hey there. Does anyone have advice for retraining a dog to go pee/poo in a different place outside? I got my dog during the winter and she's only accustomed to going to the bathroom on snow, which is now becoming a big issue, as it is almost all melted away.

I'm sure it's just going to have to be me being consistent and persistent in taking her to her new and proper place to do her business but so far no real progress has been made in the past week or so.

Psychobabble!
Jun 22, 2010

Observing this filth unsettles me
Any tips on stopping mounting would be appreciated. Dorian takes corrections(both from me and from dogs) to mounting pretty well, but it's obviously a habit I'd like to stop. He comes to dog daycare with me every day during the week and I leash him and put him in a time out every time, not sure what else I can/should do.

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

Smoosh
Lop his bollocks off if it hasn't already been done. Some neutered dogs still mount though, just keep correcting him with the usual "no" if he looks like he's about to do it, and then reward if he thinks twice and stops.

NtotheTC
Dec 31, 2007


learnincurve posted:

He's staggeringly pretty and he knows it. Are you going to work him or is he a pet dog?

His main job is providing endless entertainment by being a dipshit most of the time- other than that he's a pet. Having said that he's pretty intelligent and motivated enough by pieces of his dry food that he can learn most tricks within 5 minutes.

He seems basically housetrained now as well. I can put him outside and tell him to pee and he generally will. There are a few odd instances where he still has accidents inside though, and it seems to be related to when I come home from work- even if he's been going outside all day when he's at home with my partner, as soon as I come home he'll do maybe 1-2 pees inside, within quick succession and no warning at all, even if the back door is open and he has access to the garden.

There's an element of deliberateness and consistency to it which is making me think it isn't just a standard accident- most of the time he seems able to hold it just fine til he's outside. Any ideas as to what could be causing this behaviour and how to counter-act it?

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

Smoosh
You could try using animal urine neutraliser in the places he goes. Dogs will often keep on territorial marking the same spot in the house, and even if you disinfect it and can't smell a thing they still can and will keep on going there.

NtotheTC
Dec 31, 2007


We do use that spray, whether we just aren't using enough of it I'm not sure.

Lynza
Jun 1, 2000

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
- Robert A. Heinlein
We adopted a ~5 month-old puppy yesterday. He's some kind of terrier/dachsund judging from his looks. He's a lovely red, with black nose and lips, and a total tube body and long neck.

A lot of "puppy" training stuff assumes I have this guy from age ~2 months or so, and he was abandoned and very thin when he was turned in to a shelter in California, then shipped up to Oregon.

He's been neutered recently. He seems to be healing just fine.

He's super sweet, and likes to be held. Doesn't like being picked up, though. If I sit on the floor, he'll flump down so he's touching me and zonk out. He was a little nervous meeting my parents' dog (he's huge and very energetic) but he got over it quickly and was following him around in a couple of minutes. He likes my folks, and when he sees them he goes running to them.\

He's a little nervous. I think that's pretty in-line with his life up until now. We're feeding him as much as he'll eat (and he doesn't wolf it down or otherwise seem like he's starving).

So, questions:

1. He doesn't seem to like any of the treats I've tried very well. He'll eat them, but he's pretty meh about them. I've tried beef liver, some kind of chicken freeze-dried thing, and Zuke's rabbit treats. I figure it may just be because he's eating his fill of food and isn't super food-obsessed. My current goal is to fatten him up, though, as he's rail thin. Any suggestions of treats to try, or advice?

2. Not sure how he was trained/potty-trained. He seems to think cement is good for peeing, and carpet for poops. I've caught him both times, and put him outside, but I'm wondering if there's more. I now run him out to a spot he likes to pee, but he doesn't seem to want to poop with an audience. Should I just stay vigilant or is there more I could do?

3. He seems to be pretty familiar with a crate, but he's restless when he's in it. He'll go in by himself, curl up, fluff up the bedding, but usually he only stays in it for a minute or two. He really doesn't like it when the door is closed, so I leave it open. If I put a toy in there, he'll go in and get it and take it out. Other things you might suggest to make the crate more friendly for him?

4. Toys. I've got a hollow Kong-type toy, some teeny tennis balls, a stuffed toy, a teething toy (as he's losing some baby teeth), and a couple of little bully-stick type things that I picked up today. Basically, if he showed interest in it, I got one. But he's not very interested in any of the toys. I tried doing some tug with him, or rolling a ball. Sometimes he gets into it, then sort of pauses, stops, and ignores the toy. I feel like this might have something to do with his history (which I don't know). Any suggestions on how to find a good toy, or to make the toys he has more interesting or enjoyable?

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

Smoosh
Just a word of advice on the food thing. Little and often, rather than big meals twice a day. High quality puppy food should do the trick for weight gain. Avoid chicken and liver as treats, they are rather empty and just take up space. Your vet can make you up a feeding plan. :)

Crooked Booty
Apr 2, 2009
arrr

learnincurve posted:

Avoid chicken and liver as treats, they are rather empty and just take up space.
Huh?

pizzadog
Oct 9, 2009

Lynza posted:

We adopted a ~5 month-old puppy yesterday. He's some kind of terrier/dachsund judging from his looks. He's a lovely red, with black nose and lips, and a total tube body and long neck.

A lot of "puppy" training stuff assumes I have this guy from age ~2 months or so, and he was abandoned and very thin when he was turned in to a shelter in California, then shipped up to Oregon.

He's been neutered recently. He seems to be healing just fine.

He's super sweet, and likes to be held. Doesn't like being picked up, though. If I sit on the floor, he'll flump down so he's touching me and zonk out. He was a little nervous meeting my parents' dog (he's huge and very energetic) but he got over it quickly and was following him around in a couple of minutes. He likes my folks, and when he sees them he goes running to them.\

He's a little nervous. I think that's pretty in-line with his life up until now. We're feeding him as much as he'll eat (and he doesn't wolf it down or otherwise seem like he's starving).

So, questions:

1. He doesn't seem to like any of the treats I've tried very well. He'll eat them, but he's pretty meh about them. I've tried beef liver, some kind of chicken freeze-dried thing, and Zuke's rabbit treats. I figure it may just be because he's eating his fill of food and isn't super food-obsessed. My current goal is to fatten him up, though, as he's rail thin. Any suggestions of treats to try, or advice?

2. Not sure how he was trained/potty-trained. He seems to think cement is good for peeing, and carpet for poops. I've caught him both times, and put him outside, but I'm wondering if there's more. I now run him out to a spot he likes to pee, but he doesn't seem to want to poop with an audience. Should I just stay vigilant or is there more I could do?

3. He seems to be pretty familiar with a crate, but he's restless when he's in it. He'll go in by himself, curl up, fluff up the bedding, but usually he only stays in it for a minute or two. He really doesn't like it when the door is closed, so I leave it open. If I put a toy in there, he'll go in and get it and take it out. Other things you might suggest to make the crate more friendly for him?

4. Toys. I've got a hollow Kong-type toy, some teeny tennis balls, a stuffed toy, a teething toy (as he's losing some baby teeth), and a couple of little bully-stick type things that I picked up today. Basically, if he showed interest in it, I got one. But he's not very interested in any of the toys. I tried doing some tug with him, or rolling a ball. Sometimes he gets into it, then sort of pauses, stops, and ignores the toy. I feel like this might have something to do with his history (which I don't know). Any suggestions on how to find a good toy, or to make the toys he has more interesting or enjoyable?

He'll probably need a week or two to fully settle in and be comfortable enough to play and enjoy treats. He may never have had toys. I'd just let him do what he wants to do for a little bit, as long as nothing is a dire emergency to fix, let him come to trust everybody and realize he won't be thrown to a new home next month and things are safe now. I think he'll come out of his shell and relax slowly. More patience with potty training. I got my dog at 5 months old also, she was likely outdoors or in shelters for her entire life up until then, so fully potty training after they've learned to pee wherever they live is tougher, and just takes time and repetition. Try to get them outside before they pee, outside when they need to poop, and just wait it out. Like right after meals, waking up etc will be potty times. And don't go back in until they go. It's possible they were even punished for pooping in the wrong place, so there may be an aversion to humans seeing them poop, who knows! Never punish, just calmly move them and clean up well. On track with crate training - if they're uncomfortable with you closing them in the crate, leave it open for now, and let it be a safe space they can trust and not feel trapped in. You can also play Crate Games, to get them to enjoy and want to be in the crate more. But give it all time as well.

pizzadog fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Apr 5, 2017

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

Smoosh

I'd be far more concerned with getting calcium into the pup than putting weight on, if he's being fed puppy food multiple times a day and he's full of chicken then that's one less vitamin fortified meal.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

learnincurve posted:

I'd be far more concerned with getting calcium into the pup than putting weight on, if he's being fed puppy food multiple times a day and he's full of chicken then that's one less vitamin fortified meal.

That highly depends on the breed and is not very helpful advice. While you should ensure that the puppy gets the right balance of vitamins and micronutrients from it's main meals, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using chicken or liver as treats.
I'm also sceptical of your claim of 'little and often'. It's certain opposite of what we did/was told.

Lynza
Jun 1, 2000

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
- Robert A. Heinlein
I think I worded my question poorly. I'm not worried about fattening him up, I'm just prioritizing that over him really liking a specific treat. So if anyone has good treat suggestions, I'd love to hear it.

We had some stew last night, and he really liked the beef (shredded very small), so it may be that we need to use either what he eats as treats, or other tastier/smellier things.

Aggro
Apr 24, 2003

STRONG as an OX and TWICE as SMART
Freeze dried liver treats have been baller for my puppy. When we're first teaching a new behavior, we've been doing mild cheddar cheese cubes until it clicks. For her recall word, we have some lamb sausage from a pet store.

How have you guys reinforced loose leash walking and heel? She's great on the leash when there are no dogs or people around; she walks right by my side and keeps a good pace. But we've had very limited success in getting her attention back when something exciting comes along. She's not even 5 months yet, so I'm not expecting perfect leash reactivity, but I'm not sure what we should be doing to curb the behavior.

Nostalgia4Dogges
Jun 18, 2004

Only emojis can express my pure, simple stupidity.

Maybe I'm just a bad dog owner, but free feeding has always worked for me. Growing up, with all the dogs we had, we never had any issues. They've always been a healthy weight. Maybe all my dogs have just been grazers. Then again, I do give table scraps and such, so they've also been primadonnas as well, and their dog food is the "welp guess there's nothing else to eat" option.

pizzadog posted:

Try to get them outside before they pee, outside when they need to poop, and just wait it out. Like right after meals, waking up etc will be potty times. And don't go back in until they go. It's possible they were even punished for pooping in the wrong place, so there may be an aversion to humans seeing them poop, who knows! Never punish, just calmly move them and clean up well. On track with crate training - if they're uncomfortable with you closing them in the crate, leave it open for now, and let it be a safe space they can trust and not feel trapped in. You can also play Crate Games, to get them to enjoy and want to be in the crate more. But give it all time as well.

Kind of a random question, and not sure how to word it. But at what point does it really "click," with a dog? I understand the younger they are, their bladders are much more immature. I had a rough time with my first dog, but I also didn't have a yard. Eventually, once he grew a bit, he was really good, and only went in the kitchen every so often. He was able to hold it for 12+ hours. When I moved, he never once went potty in the new place over about 5 months. If he had to go potty at night, he'd paw at me until I woke up. It was literally as-if a switch flipped over night.

My pupper is almost four months, and he's doing pretty good. If I leave the door open he'll go out and do his thing. I'm trying to reinforce that habit. He still has some accidents, though, but I understand I should not expect too much so far. He did go pee when he was in his crate for a short time a couple weeks ago, even after he went pee outside, which seemed weird. He hasn't done it since though. I haven't really picked up on any obvious cues yet. My last dog would sit and just stare at me. At night, he jumps off the bed, which wakes me up, so that's easy enough. He generally sleeps through the night though.

Aggro posted:

Freeze dried liver treats have been baller for my puppy. When we're first teaching a new behavior, we've been doing mild cheddar cheese cubes until it clicks. For her recall word, we have some lamb sausage from a pet store.

How have you guys reinforced loose leash walking and heel? She's great on the leash when there are no dogs or people around; she walks right by my side and keeps a good pace. But we've had very limited success in getting her attention back when something exciting comes along. She's not even 5 months yet, so I'm not expecting perfect leash reactivity, but I'm not sure what we should be doing to curb the behavior.

idk if this helps you--maybe you've already seen it. This seems like a solid vid though, and I'll probably try it out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9cpD6VFhTU

Nostalgia4Dogges fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Apr 5, 2017

learnincurve
May 15, 2014

Smoosh

ImplicitAssembler posted:

That highly depends on the breed and is not very helpful advice. While you should ensure that the puppy gets the right balance of vitamins and micronutrients from it's main meals, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using chicken or liver as treats.
I'm also sceptical of your claim of 'little and often'. It's certain opposite of what we did/was told.

Of course every case is different and a vet is the one who should be creating a diet plan. I worked in a shelter in my younger days and we would feed the underweight dogs 4-7 times a day depending on how bad it was, and then wean them down to two meals as the weight went up. I've seen what happens to dogs in later life which have had a lack of calcium when puppies and it's a thing I get paranoid about now tbh. I quit working in shelters and switched to the human medical profession because it was a horror show from start to end and it was making me hate people far too much.

Lynza
Jun 1, 2000

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
- Robert A. Heinlein

pizzadog posted:

He'll probably need a week or two to fully settle in and be comfortable enough to play and enjoy treats. He may never have had toys. I'd just let him do what he wants to do for a little bit, as long as nothing is a dire emergency to fix, let him come to trust everybody and realize he won't be thrown to a new home next month and things are safe now. I think he'll come out of his shell and relax slowly. More patience with potty training. I got my dog at 5 months old also, she was likely outdoors or in shelters for her entire life up until then, so fully potty training after they've learned to pee wherever they live is tougher, and just takes time and repetition. Try to get them outside before they pee, outside when they need to poop, and just wait it out. Like right after meals, waking up etc will be potty times. And don't go back in until they go. It's possible they were even punished for pooping in the wrong place, so there may be an aversion to humans seeing them poop, who knows! Never punish, just calmly move them and clean up well. On track with crate training - if they're uncomfortable with you closing them in the crate, leave it open for now, and let it be a safe space they can trust and not feel trapped in. You can also play Crate Games, to get them to enjoy and want to be in the crate more. But give it all time as well.

Thank you!

I'm trying to get him on a short-ish car ride each day. He does pretty well in the car. He doesn't love it, and I think he'd be happier if he could see out the window, but he has a little bed and he usually curls up in it after a few minutes and zonks out.

I'm taking him to a pet store each day (mostly to pick up little things) and he's good with people approaching him, but he will not budge if he's on a leash and I put him down on the floor. Except under his own steam. If I try to give the leash any pressure or a gentle tug, he braces his legs and freezes. So I'm hoping it'll just be a little adjustment for him to feel confident on his own with the leash attached.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013

learnincurve posted:

Of course every case is different and a vet is the one who should be creating a diet plan. I worked in a shelter in my younger days and we would feed the underweight dogs 4-7 times a day depending on how bad it was, and then wean them down to two meals as the weight went up. I've seen what happens to dogs in later life which have had a lack of calcium when puppies and it's a thing I get paranoid about now tbh. I quit working in shelters and switched to the human medical profession because it was a horror show from start to end and it was making me hate people far too much.

Too much calcium is almost as bad as not enough. Large breeds especially can develop bone growth problems if they get too much calcium (and phosphorous).
I would be very hesitant to give out absolute advice based on limited information.

Lynza
Jun 1, 2000

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
- Robert A. Heinlein
Pupdate:

He really doesn't care for dry treats. But holy poo poo, he sure loves hot dogs. I got some good ones without nitrates in em (might as well keep them healthy) and cut them up small. I'll cut them up even smaller next time. But yep, he can sit now after just a few minutes of luring him.

He also likes chicken gizzards, so the moral of this story is my hands are gonna stink forever.

Verman
Jul 4, 2005
Third time is a charm right?
Stinky treats are usually the best motivators.

Lynza
Jun 1, 2000

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
- Robert A. Heinlein

Lynza posted:

Pupdate:

He really doesn't care for dry treats. But holy poo poo, he sure loves hot dogs. I got some good ones without nitrates in em (might as well keep them healthy) and cut them up small. I'll cut them up even smaller next time. But yep, he can sit now after just a few minutes of luring him.

He also likes chicken gizzards, so the moral of this story is my hands are gonna stink forever.

Oh god guess what else he loves. Fishy things. Sardines, in fact.

Guess who finds the smell of fish absolutely nauseating?

WrenP-Complete
Jul 27, 2012

Our rural NC puppers have become apartment-dwelling Yankee Doodle Doggies!

This is day ... 4? I'm following a bunch of advice from a positive dog training linked somewhere in pet island. On mobile and not sure, but I think it's positively.com? Victoria Sitwell's site.

Both dogs are rescue mutts, one smart 12 year old little guy (been with partner for 6+ years) and one not-as-smart-but-full-of-love medium-sized​ lady 6 year old who had been returned to the shelter twice. My partner adopted her maybe 8 months ago.

Barking: (our biggest concern) we are rewarding dogs for being chill, not responding to the door until they've stopped barking, etc. Down from 8+ long barking adventures a day out in the country, where they barked at anything, to ~3 today, only barking at other dogs they see/knocks on the door.

Toileting: one big and one small accident, we seem to have timed exercise/feeding habits incorrectly for one dog, and have readjusted. Seems to be alright now.

Separation anxiety: I've been working from home with them, and encouraged them to play/chew their bones when they got upset my partner isn't home. They were a little destructive when we were out tonight, but that partially on us - we aren't fully unpacked and didn't realize something that smelled edible was accessible to them. We are starting in on place training and getting them crates.

That's all for now; pics to follow. Getting on a training regime has been hard work but it is really improving our relationship with the dogs. I think we are on the right track...

I am up with insomnia so... I may ask questions when I reread this in the morning, but for now I'm going to assume I left something major out.

pizzadog
Oct 9, 2009

Lynza posted:

Oh god guess what else he loves. Fishy things. Sardines, in fact.

Guess who finds the smell of fish absolutely nauseating?

Sardines is what a friend of mine uses for her dog's agility treat she wears a latex glove hah.


Try making tuna fudge, i swear by it after I switched off hot dogs.
It is inoffensive as far as fishy smells go. I hate fish, don't eat it, even tuna, except raw spicy tuna.

Lynza
Jun 1, 2000

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
- Robert A. Heinlein

pizzadog posted:

Sardines is what a friend of mine uses for her dog's agility treat she wears a latex glove hah.


Try making tuna fudge, i swear by it after I switched off hot dogs.
It is inoffensive as far as fishy smells go. I hate fish, don't eat it, even tuna, except raw spicy tuna.

You monster!

Anyway, yep. He loves tuna fudge. And it made enough that I threw most of it in the freezer and it should be treats for like a month or so since they'll be super tiny.

I practiced also with my folks' dog, who's probably the most food-obsessed creature I have ever seen. He also loves it. And is enjoying clicker training as well, because it means treats are going into his mouf.

Alucard
Mar 11, 2002
Pillbug
We have a bit of a dilemma right now that I'd like to get input from you folks:

We've had a domestic shorthair cat for around 8 years, and were looking to add a dog to the household (2BR Apartment). We ended up finding a 3-year old soft-coated wheaten terrier from a breeder who is very nice, and who has been living with us for the last month or so (the dog, not the breeder).



She previously was living with a bunch of other dogs and had a large yard. She has some issues with separation anxiety (whenever we leave she's howling for a solid 30 minutes, and pretty much whimpers/barks if we're in the house and can't get to us). As annoying as that is for us and our neighbors, the next thing is a bit bigger.

To avoid up-front disasters, the cat and dog have been living in separate areas of the apartment for a while, but have not flipped out over each others' smells or had any trouble seeing/sniffing each other across the large gate that we have installed as the divider. So this weekend, we figured we would try a small in-person greeting in the same space. It did not end well.



We had the dog on a leash and tried to give them an opportunity to sniff each other, but the dog ended up nipping at the cat, resulting in the scratch seen above. I couldn't pull them away before that initial action, but got them separated before anything worse happened. They'd sniffed each other from across the gate with no issues, but I think when they are in the same space it may have triggered something. The dog is perfectly fine outside with other dogs, and is a sweetheart with people too - this is about the first time we've seen her act aggressively in any way.

Originally, our main "dealbreaker" was whether the dog could get along with the cat. If we had a bigger place, we'd be able to comfortably give them their own realms, but they both need to be able to co-exist if they want to have the attention they both need.

The breeder has already told us that if there were any issues, that we should return her to him. If that were needed, she's not going to be in a shelter, but she may not get as much attention with him and all his other dogs as with us. Then again, her anxiety may be lessened by having other canine companions around all the time, and she may be better off in a non-cat household.

Any thoughts from folks would be greatly appreciated, we are extremely conflicted, and although we do want to ensure that both dog and cat have a happy home to stay in, we're not certain that they could ever be trusted alongside one another.

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!
I think you should return her, if you're not already completely attached.

If not, train the dog to ignore the cat completely and never leave them alone unsupervised. This is a long uphill battle, and you have another one with the separation anxiety.

pizzadog
Oct 9, 2009

At first I was like ahh are you sure they weren't trying to play, then i noticed it cut the skin on your cat, so that's not really a warning nip. My dogs have given many warnings nips to our cats, but they're always the ones bleeding or with claws stuck in their head. If it went straight to skin-breaking, that's definitely a concern and I would be wary about ever letting them unsupervised, much less being able to manage living together.

It does indeed sound like that dog would be happier in a cat-free home (and i'm sure the cat would rather too) and maybe with someone who works from home/other dogs as well. There are plenty of dogs that are cat friendly.

Alucard
Mar 11, 2002
Pillbug
Thanks for the feedback so far - the entire reason we were taking the introductions slow was because we knew that terriers tend to have a strong prey drive. She's been so docile and friendly towards people / other dogs that we hoped it would translate over to other animal kingdom / family members.

We are fairly attached to her, but the anxiety for us of maintaining hyper-vigilance for the entirety of their interactions, or sequestering them from one another while they both need our attention doesn't feel fair to anyone involved.

Alucard fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Apr 10, 2017

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!
Since she drew blood on the cat, either she escalates from chill to not very fast or y'all aren't catching the body language tells.

If you think it's the latter and you want to work through it, the things I would look for before I let them get close again are: a soft eye, loose body language (no stiff or fast tail wagging), maintaining a loose leash and willingness to look away from the cat for a treat. That basically means no sniffing and no staring, not even through a gate. Practicing 'I pet the cat and toss you a treat' will help, as will solid crate/mat training. Give the cat plenty of vertical escape routes if possible.

Having a household where your animals can't be together unsupervised is irritating, but not impossible. Keeping them completely separate is less reasonable long-term.

Alucard
Mar 11, 2002
Pillbug
It was potentially the latter, but she was doing well at refocusing on us when they were across the gate from each other. Not sure if the less restricted access changed the calculus or what.

Overall, the dog typically backs away from uncertain things and is friendly when she engages, which is why this caught us off guard. But most of those kinds of interactions have been outside and not in the household, so the territory may have influenced it.

Alucard fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Apr 10, 2017

angry armadillo
Jul 26, 2010
We got our 1st puppy in December, looking back at some of the issues we had then to what we are dealing with now is nice - it all gets better with a bit of practice :)

We go to puppy school where they teach you the basic stuff like sit, wait, down etc and we've done 1 course and enjoyed it so we are going to do the 'bronze' level next.

We had lesson 1 yesterday with a different trainer to the foundation course - she was explaining how dogs like to 'offer' something when you ask for something - we should subsequently reward this to get what we want.

I didn't really understand this idea until this weekend (I'm dumb, I know :) ) but the other thing we need to do is improve our down (I'm a bit of stickler for doing things properly, he's ok really :) ) so I was reading an article about when we treat the dog we have to consider what we are accepting - so I am going to try some down training where I say down...stay.... ok then treat the chain of behaviours, apparently this will work well because when the dog gets back up on the 'ok' command, he is ready to play the game again, so we can go in circles whilst extending the game or if he shows a sign of bored now


It's cool when things start making more sense :D

obligatory picture: (ours on the right, visiting parents on the left)



eventually they would be peaceful together :D

Alucard
Mar 11, 2002
Pillbug
Thanks for the advice folks - we talked with a couple of trainers in our area and they had similar input as you. It was a really hard decision, but I think we made the right choice by returning her to the breeder. Thankfully, his place is still a great environment for her, and she was happy to see him again.

With our schedules and the tension with the other pet, I don't think our environment was quite right for our pup to thrive as much as she could. :(

Verman
Jul 4, 2005
Third time is a charm right?
It sounds like you made the right decision, not an easy one to make but it sounds like the right call.

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Speedboat Jones
Dec 28, 2008



Lipstick Apathy
I'm having a lot of problems with a dog (we think it's a beagle/lab mix, but we're not entirely sure) I got from the shelter last summer. She's a little bit over a year old at this point according to the information at the shelter.

In the almost a year we've had her we've noticed that she must have kind of extreme separation anxiety. A few of the big problems we've noticed so far:
  • Cries when isolated from us. In a crate, in the back yard with the door closed, left outside a room of the house we're in with the door closed, etc.
  • Very clingy. If my other dog is snuggling with me she tries to shove herself in there.
  • Serious issues with potty training. After all this time she's still peeing and pooping in the house no matter what we've tried to do.
  • Leash aggression out the wahzoo. It goes beyond just barking at another dog, it sounds like she's having a total meltdown.
  • Skiddish and fearful of new humans that aren't my wife or me.
  • Digging holes in the back yard while I'm at work, and just today ripping off a sprinkler head and flooding a section of the yard.

There's a couple things I think I should mention. We were living in an apartment when we first got her and just recently moved into a house. I thought having a yard would be better for her potty issues and being able to run around in the back yard with our other dog, and it was going fairly well the first week of living here, but now she's destroying the back yard and trying to dig a hole to the next yard over. I have gotten her trained before, some basic leash and walking training, and that was helping while the classes were still going on, but she's slipping back into her bad habits and full-on anxiety attacks.

My wife is now saying that we probably need to take her back to the shelter because the dog seems like a kinda we just can't handle. We've guessed that it might be a case of a puppy taken from the mother too soon and there being a ton of psychological problems stemming from that, but we just don't know.

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