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Dexie posted:Especially when most of the time, those new types don't fit in or make sense or are strong enough thematically to be a new type. tbh, I was semi-convinced the new type in X/Y would be sound before they revealed Fairy. It definitely has enough stuff in the game to support an archetype already with a ton of pokemon based around it, sound moves having special mechanics, multiple abilities that affect sound moves etc. Not saying it should be, but I could easily have seen Gamefreak doing it.
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Apr 2, 2017 05:19
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Zore posted:tbh, I was semi-convinced the new type in X/Y would be sound before they revealed Fairy. It definitely has enough stuff in the game to support an archetype already with a ton of pokemon based around it, sound moves having special mechanics, multiple abilities that affect sound moves etc. We do have Liquid Voice, Popplio's HA: "All sound-based moves become Water-type moves."
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Apr 2, 2017 05:22
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Zore posted:tbh, I was semi-convinced the new type in X/Y would be sound before they revealed Fairy. It definitely has enough stuff in the game to support an archetype already with a ton of pokemon based around it, sound moves having special mechanics, multiple abilities that affect sound moves etc. I can see maybe Rock being weak to it, but as far as it's other type relations go, what else would work?
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Apr 2, 2017 05:25
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iospace posted:We do have Liquid Voice, Popplio's HA: "All sound-based moves become Water-type moves." Yeah, and Soundproof. And sound moves pierce substitute. And throat chop locks out sound moves for 2 turns. I dunno, its an interesting little subarchetype that has a lot of special rules. Dexie posted:I can see maybe Rock being weak to it, but as far as it's other type relations go, what else would work? Ice  Personally, I'd make it SE against Water, Ground and Fairy. Resisted by Rock, Dragon, Fire and Ice. Resistant to Fairy, Water, and Fighting. Weak to Steel and Poison. Zore fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 05:25
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Dexie posted:I can see maybe Rock being weak to it, but as far as it's other type relations go, what else would work? Yeah, I don't think this idea is very sound.
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Apr 2, 2017 05:27
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What that gently caress is Mystic even?
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Apr 2, 2017 05:28
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dungeon cousin posted:What that gently caress is Mystic even? "Mystic Type is not what you'd expect, and that's the entire point of it. Mystic is a type dedicated to that which can not be explained, but is still incredibly powerful. The entire type is about messing with your expectations. Mystic is a type with the most trickery of all types, with many moves and abilities that exist purely to mess with you, to subvert what you've learned and to trick you into making mistakes. Remembering all tricks Mystic has to offer will be incredibly tough." http://www.projectazurite.com/mystic-type A typing that's already covered by Fairies and Psychics.
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Apr 2, 2017 05:31
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Dexie posted:"Mystic Type is not what you'd expect, and that's the entire point of it. Mystic is a type dedicated to that which can not be explained, but is still incredibly powerful. The entire type is about messing with your expectations. How is a single type double resistant to another single type 
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Apr 2, 2017 05:36
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It's messing with your expectations!
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Apr 2, 2017 05:38
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FreezingInferno posted:This game was considered for Geoff Keighley's Spike Game Awards show. To boot, I think the only reason it wasn't was because Nintendo told them "don't do it".
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Apr 2, 2017 05:42
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Dexie posted:"Mystic Type is not what you'd expect, and that's the entire point of it. Mystic is a type dedicated to that which can not be explained, but is still incredibly powerful. The entire type is about messing with your expectations. iospace posted:How is a single type double resistant to another single type gently caress right off dungeon cousin fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 05:45
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Dexie posted:It's messing with your expectations!  And their website isn't consistent with it.Like, there's some halfway decent ideas here. Item that increases encounters? Cool, good for grinding EVs. I'd know I'd want one now that I see that. A defense version of the Assault Vest? Also not bad. Though I do find it funny they included a 0.1 catch rate ball after everyone was using beast balls.
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Apr 2, 2017 05:46
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iospace posted:Like, there's some halfway decent ideas here. Item that increases encounters? Cool, good for grinding EVs. I'd know I'd want one now that I see that. A defense version of the Assault Vest? Also not bad. I forget whether an Illuminate haver needs to be in the front slot but between it and Sweet Scent the convenience seems unnecessary.
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Apr 2, 2017 06:05
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AweStriker posted:I forget whether an Illuminate haver needs to be in the front slot but between it and Sweet Scent the convenience seems unnecessary. Field moves are gone, so you have to spam honey. I forgot about Illuminate, though. But Stench and that one held item also reduce encounter rates, which does overlap with repell.
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Apr 2, 2017 06:11
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Zore posted:tbh, I was semi-convinced the new type in X/Y would be sound before they revealed Fairy. It definitely has enough stuff in the game to support an archetype already with a ton of pokemon based around it, sound moves having special mechanics, multiple abilities that affect sound moves etc. Nah, that would completely gut the already anemic list of normal-type special attacks.
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Apr 2, 2017 06:19
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Straight White Shark posted:Nah, that would completely gut the already anemic list of normal-type special attacks. Its not like thats stopped them before. Remember during the Physical/Special split where they had to create Dark Pulse because all previous Dark moves became physical?
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Apr 2, 2017 06:24
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I do like that the mega evolution of Electrode is straight up a Great Ball, who's ability is a boost to recoil moves (namely Self-Destruct and Explosion). Sure, lets use your once per battle mega-evolution to do a suicide attack, that's smart. That said the region Pika-clone isn't that horrible.
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Apr 2, 2017 06:31
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 Edginess aside I also like the Kurian Buneary line. e: Oh my god mega land-form Shaymin is adorable, I want one LAY-ZX fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 06:56
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I want a game that's just, like, FireRed/LeafGreen/maybe Yellow, but with all the improvements we've gotten since Gen 4. Physical/Special split, faster battles... hell, bring back Pokemon following you again from HG/SS and I would legit pay full-price for that. I don't think we're likely to get it so soon after the VC rerelease of Red/Blue, but I can dream.
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Apr 2, 2017 07:24
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Zore posted:Its not like thats stopped them before. Remember during the Physical/Special split where they had to create Dark Pulse because all previous Dark moves became physical? Yeah, but at that point what do they even do with it? Regular Beam? Boring Pulse? Sound attacks are an important conceptual niche for normal types and without them normal becomes even more of a joke.
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Apr 2, 2017 07:31
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Sound's a moderately solid type prospect, and I've always liked the idea of a 'synthetic' type, for stuff like Porygon and Genesect and possibly Voltorb. Sometimes I sorta think a Fossil or Ancient or Relic type would be neat too since I just think Rock is weird for all of those. Fairy does pretty much cover Light though, a bit abstractly but it's a better type ultimately. Cosmic's very very limited in my opinion, right now it would by and large cover space stuff which is like seven or eight Pokemon and like five moves, most of which are legendary, there'd need to be a game that explicitly has like, a space colony or orbital ring as a major area for me to say that a space-ish type is suitable. And Mystic's way too abstract, and they didn't really define it. A good type immediately evokes an idea of what it's supposed to be and obviously describes the Pokemon in question while also not being too specific, and Mystic seems like it just treads ground that Psychic handles fine.
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Apr 2, 2017 07:31
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Straight White Shark posted:Yeah, but at that point what do they even do with it? Regular Beam? Boring Pulse? Sound attacks are an important conceptual niche for normal types and without them normal becomes even more of a joke. Lean in and give them more poo poo like Tribeam imo. Or hyper beam style lasers. I mean its not like some of the other types have varied attacks. Oh look I shot fire. This time tho, Im going to shoot more fire. This time even more fire!!!!
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Apr 2, 2017 07:34
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"There needs to be Light because there's Dark" is one of my personal Pokemon pet peeves. Sound would theoretically work, but I don't think it'd happen unless they needed another meta-rebalancing Type. (Remember, literally every new type released up to this point was done to provide a check for an at-the-time overpowered type.)
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Apr 2, 2017 07:34
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sound definitely would be the most solid of all those ideas, even if it's still kind of weird and limited in what it can apply to. also the whole crystal thing just seems like a weird mega variant? a lot of why it sucks to just cram all this junk into a game is because the official games tend to not just throw in whatever whenever they feel like it. mainly since there's...usually not enough of a valid reason to actually include it.
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Apr 2, 2017 07:35
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Tribeam should actually be handled as three fire/ice/electric type attacks, but get STAB from normal type 
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Apr 2, 2017 07:36
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The biggest problem with a "sound" type is that there are existing sound moves with non-normal types that make sense with them. Bug Buzz is the sound a bug makes, it shouldn't be anything other than bug type but it's still a sound-based attack. Same for Metal Sound and Grass Whistle. The other issue comes with what Pokemon get the type. There's Exploud line, Noivern line, Chatot, Meloetta...and that's about it. You could make an argument for Vibrava/Flygon as well but that line has enough typing issues as-is.Gyra_Solune posted:Sometimes I sorta think a Fossil or Ancient or Relic type would be neat too since I just think Rock is weird for all of those. B-but all of the fossil Pokemon are literally made of stone
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Apr 2, 2017 07:40
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Waffleman_ posted:Yeah, I don't think this idea is very sound. 
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Apr 2, 2017 07:41
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LAY-ZX posted:The biggest problem with a "sound" type is that there are existing sound moves with non-normal types that make sense with them. Bug Buzz is the sound a bug makes, it shouldn't be anything other than bug type but it's still a sound-based attack. Same for Metal Sound and Grass Whistle. The other issue comes with what Pokemon get the type. There's Exploud line, Noivern line, Chatot, Meloetta...and that's about it. You could make an argument for Vibrava/Flygon as well but that line has enough typing issues as-is. yeah, they go through the process of adding around 5 new types but the list of pokemon they each apply to is like 10 at max. what's even the point. dark, steel and fairy were added since they were pretty broad things that could be easily applied to existing pokemon or new ones, but unless they go through the hassle of just making a bunch of pokemon sound-related in the future then there's really no reason to have even added it into the official games, you know?
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Apr 2, 2017 07:46
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LAY-ZX posted:The biggest problem with a "sound" type is that there are existing sound moves with non-normal types that make sense with them. Bug Buzz is the sound a bug makes, it shouldn't be anything other than bug type but it's still a sound-based attack. Same for Metal Sound and Grass Whistle. The other issue comes with what Pokemon get the type. There's Exploud line, Noivern line, Chatot, Meloetta...and that's about it. You could make an argument for Vibrava/Flygon as well but that line has enough typing issues as-is. There are a bunch of other sound based pokemon though? Kricketune line, Jigglypuff line, Seismetoad line, Lapras, Chimeco line, Gigalith line, Crobat line... Granted not all would or should be retyped, but 
Zore fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 07:48
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Zore posted:There are a bunch of other sound based pokemon though? Kricketune line, Jigglypuff line, Seismetoad line, Lapras, Chimeco line, Crobat line... Fair, I didn't think about it that hard. The moves are really the bigger issue, though, I think.
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Apr 2, 2017 07:52
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LAY-ZX posted:Fair, I didn't think about it that hard. The moves are really the bigger issue, though, I think. I'm still stuck on the relationships with other types as my point for why Sound wouldn't work. I'm looking at the Azurite type chart for it and most of it makes no sense to me. If I had to do it at gunpoint, I guess I would have Psychic be weak against it (loud noises disrupts their concentration), Flying be weak to it (the sound waves disrupt their flying?), Rock be weak to it (a loud enough noise can shatter stone maybe?). Ground would resist (because it outright stops the sound waves), Ghost either resists or is immune (because what the hell is noise going to do to a ghost?). Sound would be immune to itself. Other than that, I'm not sure Eh. It's just too abstract to work for me, you know?
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Apr 2, 2017 08:07
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The real problem is that the type chart is nonsense to begin with. I mean, ground and rock are both types.
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Apr 2, 2017 08:11
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Tunicate posted:The real problem is that the type chart is nonsense to begin with. #CombineGroundAndRockIntoEarth
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Apr 2, 2017 08:13
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gently caress that, divide every type arbitrarily. Fire is now flame and lava; Grass is now leaf and vine; Ghosr is now gas and spirit; Electric is light and plasma;... Also Sea is Water and Ice
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Apr 2, 2017 08:17
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Zore posted:Its not like thats stopped them before. Remember during the Physical/Special split where they had to create Dark Pulse because all previous Dark moves became physical? I never understood why dark was special in the first place. I mean what part of a punch of underhanded evil monsters that like to beat up and steal from people screams special type to the designers? I mean it made by a freaking special mover for 2 gens, which is just silly. edit: Plus there main reason for existing, balance wise, is ruining the day of psychic types, who are mostly know for having good special defense not regular defense. Vorpal Cat fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 08:22
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Zore posted:gently caress that, divide every type arbitrarily. Water should be divided into fresh and salt
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Apr 2, 2017 08:22
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Vorpal Cat posted:I never understood why dark was special in the first place. I mean what part of a punch of underhanded evil monsters that like to beat up and steal from people screams special type to the designers? I mean it made by a freaking special mover for 2 gens, which is just silly. I mean, Ghost and Dragon are right in the same boat there. Ghost was physical and the only pre gen 4 move that stayed that way after the split was Lick. And the vast majority of Dragon moves, once they started existing in Gen II, were things like Dragon Claw or Outrage.
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Apr 2, 2017 08:25
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Tunicate posted:The real problem is that the type chart is nonsense to begin with. The difference it that Rock types are usually (not always, but usually) actually made out of rock, while Ground types live in the ground/underground or are otherwise associated with it in some way.  Vorpal Cat posted:I never understood why dark was special in the first place. I mean what part of a punch of underhanded evil monsters that like to beat up and steal from people screams special type to the designers? I mean it made by a freaking special mover for 2 gens, which is just silly. The counterpart to that is 'why are Ghosts physical'? The answer being, of course, that early Pokemon games are very, very rough and poorly put together.
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Apr 2, 2017 08:26
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Teenage me playing Sapphire thought Absol was so cool, but since its SpAtk was garbage, I just couldn't get one to work.
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Apr 2, 2017 08:32
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Zore posted:I mean, Ghost and Dragon are right in the same boat there. Ghost was physical and the only pre gen 4 move that stayed that way after the split was Lick. Actually the only ghost move that became special was shadow ball (well also night shade but that doesn't count). Meanwhile astonish and shadow punch both stayed physical making the count 3 physical to one special for pre gen 4 ghost moves.
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Apr 2, 2017 08:32
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