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Considering the creation myth was "We used children to fight nigh-unstoppable sentient killing machines by installing hosed-up cybernetic implants so they could control giant robots that gave them permanent brain damage", it's more of a Grimm Fairy Tale. The brutally-cruel European versions where the punishments involve dancing in red-hot slippers.
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Mar 30, 2017 16:42
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Monaghan posted:On reflection I really like Ibo's take on sci-fi take a feudal aristocray and it's creation myths. This is the main reason I thought mobile armors would be a way bigger deal in the second season, especially after one of them woke the gently caress up and went berserk. Instead it was just a monster of the week, and everyone went right back to scheming and meddling afterward. I was super certain treating the Hashmal like a one-off thing and going back to playing political games with McGillis etc was going to bite Team Establishment hard in the rear end, but it just... never mattered.
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Mar 30, 2017 17:24
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Nerses IV posted:This is the main reason I thought mobile armors would be a way bigger deal in the second season, especially after one of them woke the gently caress up and went berserk. Instead it was just a monster of the week, and everyone went right back to scheming and meddling afterward. I was super certain treating the Hashmal like a one-off thing and going back to playing political games with McGillis etc was going to bite Team Establishment hard in the rear end, but it just... never mattered. It basically placed Mika on the path to fighting that losing war as Mika was forced to commit fully to the fight like with Graze Ein and now he can't even walk anymore. Neddy Seagoon posted:Considering the creation myth was "We used children to fight nigh-unstoppable sentient killing machines by installing hosed-up cybernetic implants so they could control giant robots that gave them permanent brain damage", it's more of a Grimm Fairy Tale. The brutally-cruel European versions where the punishments involve dancing in red-hot slippers. You put a drat fine analogy to the future that Orga would have to face if he won, watching his back as the king of mars. Other powers coveting his power.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:23
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Today's episode was a good way to end things. 
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Apr 2, 2017 11:58
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Barbatos Lupus Rex now howls like a wolf in it's berserker mode. Edit: Finished now. Wow. I'm glad how Galeio and Julietta ended up. It's really interesting where they went with Rustal, pretty much McGillis but with pragmatism to achieve his goals, then applied what he had won to apparently noble causes. Not wholly good, not wholly bad. I think he was compared to Lord Vetinari earlier, I could agree with that. Great name for the kid. So that absolutely could be the end, but they seem to have left things open for some kind of follow up. The Gjallahorn engineer never really seemed to go anywhere with her apparent interest in AV, and they showed her walking away from the rebuilt Bael. Obviously with Mika and Orga gone there's a question of who would be the protagonist, but I would quite like the focus on Julietta, maybe Ride. loving do one Iok. I think it was better than 00. Maybe in the top 3 of non-UC Gundam. BizarroAzrael fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 12:12
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BizarroAzrael posted:Barbatos Lupus Rex now howls like a wolf in it's berserker mode. I swear that was the giant robo/tetsujin gao too.
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Apr 2, 2017 12:28
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Looks like they went for the rise and fall of Imperial Japan after all, complete with superweapon airstrikes, Mars's rebirth as a corporate superpower, and Mikazuki's son being named Rising Sun. I wonder if there's a Godwin's Law in this setting where any Internet argument will eventually end with somebody being compared to McGillis? Also, the show ends with a gay couple running a planet together, which is always a plus.
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Apr 2, 2017 12:32
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Darth Walrus posted:Looks like they went for the rise and fall of Imperial Japan after all, complete with superweapon airstrikes, Mars's rebirth as a corporate superpower, and Mikazuki's son being named Rising Sun. Also an apparent portmanteau of Akahiro and Mikazuki? Did Atra make a new bracelet? Or did they recover Mika's somehow? BizarroAzrael fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 12:42
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I'm feeling kinda eh on this ending. Most of the character stuff was nice Julieta ultimately defeating Mikazuki in particular, although I do kinda wish they had a more involved fight rather than him just dying on her. The political situation being resolved offscreen through no effort of any of our protagonists was incredibly unsatisfying though. Rustal deciding to create a democracy came out of complete nowhere and honestly seems out of character for him. Overall I soured on the first season after it was finished and I feel similarly about this one. Kudelia getting completely sidelined was lame and while I know many here will disagree, I think McGillis' character in s2 felt a lot weaker than s1, although I do like Gaelio's arc in relation to him. That coupled with this ending means I probably won't think back on this show very fondly.
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Apr 2, 2017 12:44
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BizarroAzrael posted:Also an apparent portmanteau of Akahiro and Mikazuki? He's AKIhiro not AKAhero so no  .
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Apr 2, 2017 12:44
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Droyer posted:I'm feeling kinda eh on this ending. Most of the character stuff was nice Julieta defeating ultimately defeating Mikazuki in particular, although I do kinda wish they had a more involved fight rather than him just dying on her. The political situation being resolved offscreen through no effort of any of our protagonists was incredibly unsatisfying though. Rustal deciding to create a democracy came out of complete nowhere and honestly seems out of character for him. Guy was grooming a lowborn for leadership, and working with an Alaya-Vijnana-enhanced pilot. He never had much patience for the old taboos and bigotries. He was a ruthless defender of the status quo, but it genuinely seemed to be rooted in a desire for peace and stability, and was largely a reaction to McGillis's power-grab in the first season. This sort of moderate reform within the system was always a plausible endgame for him. Hell, just look at his speech about Agnika Kaeru, and how he respected Gjallarhorn less as an ancient ideal, and more as an active, evolving organisation.
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Apr 2, 2017 12:49
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Akihiro and Mikazuki, badasses to the very end.  I don't mind this ending. It made sense, even if it still feels like a bitter pill to swallow. Akihiro willing himself back to action out of sheer rage to crush that dumbass Iok and Ride capping that fat piece of poo poo, however, still felt so loving satisfying. Those two moments, along with Barbatos HOWLING were straight up for the  books.
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Apr 2, 2017 12:50
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For a moment I thought Iok would survive yet again. But thankfully Akihiro made sure to give him one of the stock horrible ways to die.
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Apr 2, 2017 13:07
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Yeah I am entirely satisfied with the way this show ended. What a loving trip.
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Apr 2, 2017 13:10
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So since there's obviously some kind of a timeskip involved (between characters aging and Merribit and Yukinojo ready for kidlet number two, etc), any guesses as to whether Gaelio's only just been hospitalized recently, maybe to have the kibble taken out of his nervous system, or has been there for a while? Really minor in the scheme of things, but if it's recent I wonder why he waited and if it's an extended stay, I'd wonder about that also.
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Apr 2, 2017 13:17
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I'm mad Rustal survived and ended up doing good for the world. Creating a democracy, freeing Mars and all that. Should've really been more of Kudelia's doing, but she got sidelined through all of season 2 so I guess that wouldn't have really worked. If she had more of a presence in the season and played a more essential role in Martian Freedom though i'd probably think this was a very good ending. Julieta, Gaelio and all of Tekkadan had endings I thought were appropriate, and were mostly heart-warming. Even Ride and pals being vigilantes feels like a good ending for them. It's probably better not everyone just completely adjusts to peace anyway. All-in-all a decent anime. I had a lot of problems with both seasons but I liked most of the characters and I think for the most part they were done justice, though there were some exceptions. Probably not the best gundam for me to start with, but acceptable enough.
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Apr 2, 2017 13:23
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Getting this framed and keeping it on the bedside cabinet so I can look at it and smile before going to bed every night:
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Apr 2, 2017 13:27
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i think the show stuck the landing, squaring the circle of needing tekkadan to die, with a happy ending. rustal was always a complex character, dirty, underhanded, yet willing to buck the 7 stars system and replace it from within. the post-calamity war system was never sustainable, not with that concentration of power and the institutionalized violence against the most vulnerable members of society also what the hell did the kujan family do to the altlands? were they the ones that sicced pirates on them?
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Apr 2, 2017 13:34
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I do think Rustal's reforms make sense: When 3 out of the 7 families are pretty much done (with the heads of the Kujan, Fareed, Issue houses dead), and for all his ruthless dickery, he seems less of a tyrant and more of a cold, pragmatic politician/general. Even if he ultimately "crushed" Tekkadan and the McGillis revolution, he knows when to cut his losses. Also, the whole subplot with him grooming Julieta to eventually succeed him makes me think that, while he valued the weight of the likes of Gaelio and Iok, at the end of the day, he's more interested in people that get him results.Droyer posted:I'm feeling kinda eh on this ending. Most of the character stuff was nice Julieta ultimately defeating Mikazuki in particular, although I do kinda wish they had a more involved fight rather than him just dying on her. The political situation being resolved offscreen through no effort of any of our protagonists was incredibly unsatisfying though. Rustal deciding to create a democracy came out of complete nowhere and honestly seems out of character for him. Goddammit, now I want to see future works set in this setting/universe! Phobophilia posted:i think the show stuck the landing, squaring the circle of needing tekkadan to die, with a happy ending. rustal was always a complex character, dirty, underhanded, yet willing to buck the 7 stars system and replace it from within. the post-calamity war system was never sustainable, not with that concentration of power and the institutionalized violence against the most vulnerable members of society Wark Say fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 13:39
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I'm mad Rustal survived and ended up doing good for the world. Creating a democracy, freeing Mars and all that. Should've really been more of Kudelia's doing, but she got sidelined through all of season 2 so I guess that wouldn't have really worked. If she had more of a presence in the season and played a more essential role in Martian Freedom though i'd probably think this was a very good ending. Julieta, Gaelio and all of Tekkadan had endings I thought were appropriate, and were mostly heart-warming. Even Ride and pals being vigilantes feels like a good ending for them. It's probably better not everyone just completely adjusts to peace anyway. Now we've got confirmation that they were going for a romanticised Japan analogy with Tekkadan/Mars, this makes sense - Kudelia was one of the democrats/corporatists who helped the nation rise, but got sidelined as the military (Tekkadan) gained power and started making big, questionable decisions about the planet's future, and were given power again by a reformed West. By impressing/terrifying the world with their strength, Tekkadan were able to give people like Kudelia the leverage necessary to secure Mars's position as a major player, at the expense of being villainised as murderous criminals who helped a madman in his pursuit of power.
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Apr 2, 2017 13:49
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Well that certainly worked itself out. Keep that kid the gently caress away from any Gundams.
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Apr 2, 2017 13:55
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RIP Muscle Unit Never in my life did I expect to see the penultimate scene of a Gundam show be a corporate fat cat being assassinated on a toilet. Ethiser fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 14:34
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Hell of a ride. Also hell of a Ride. The political resolution kind of mirrored what happened with the Dort colonies; nasty dust-up, then lots of off-screen talking that apparently works out. The obsessive part of my dork brain can't help but wonder what happened to Tekkadan's Gundam frames. Too messed up to fix? No point to it? What was left of Barbatos and Gusion would make for potent symbols for Rustal to put on display. Sort of a, "My guys killed these," kind of sentiment. An' I kind of wanted Mika and Kudelia to have a kid, too, so that one image from the first season, when Atra started getting Ideas from Amida, would turn out so. Could've had Kudelia's giant pony tail and everything. This is a personal issue of mine. Wark Say posted:Goddammit, now I want to see future works set in this setting/universe!
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Apr 2, 2017 14:54
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There's something incredibly funny about the fact that, had he not gotten into the fight in the first place (made doubly so because Julieta warned him to stay back due to his injuries) that Iok would've become Patrick Colasour 2.0, and maybe that G-Horn would've stayed more or less the same. NOPE, gotta make it all about myself. Good night, dumb prince
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Apr 2, 2017 15:15
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Turns out that even the photo-op at the end was a reference to a major moment in Japanese history. On a related note, I didn't realise until a short while ago how obviously Rustal is Douglas MacArthur. Like, he's the single most direct lift of a historical figure in the show.
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Apr 2, 2017 15:22
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I think it stuck the landing pretty well. I'm mostly satisfied. Now that we have the complete story I'm pretty much entirely on board with Walrus's "Rise and Fall of Imperial Japan" analysis, especially with the child being named Akatsuki being about as subtle as a hammer blow.Wark Say posted:There's something incredibly funny about the fact that, had he not gotten into the fight in the first place (made doubly so because Julieta warned him to stay back due to his injuries) that Iok would've become Patrick Colasour 2.0, and maybe that G-Horn would've stayed more or less the same. NOPE, gotta make it all about myself. Good night, dumb prince This ruled really hard. Iok Kujan managed to be so brain-shatteringly incompetent that by stupidly getting himself killed in a situation where he didn't need to intervene at all he managed to contribute directly to the collapse and reform of the social order he was an emblem of. A true tribute. Incidentally, the scene near the end with Ride dramatically enhanced the ending for me. I was feeling everything was a little bit too neat and saccharine until we saw a scene of several incredibly bitter former Tekkadan members murdering an unarmed man on the toilet, especially since they were being led by one of the most hopeful and innocent children from when Tekkadan was a thing. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 15:25
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Overall it was the ending we pretty much expected going on from the first episode, because the general tone of the show meant you knew this wasn't going to be happy ride by the end. They did indeed stick the landing quite well, and goddamn can you not just hate and love Rustal at the same time that magnificent loving bastard  .I think we're all happy that Iok got the Big Scissors in the end though.
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Apr 2, 2017 15:41
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 Nailed it. I'm a whirlwind of emotions right now. I'm sad and glad. So sad and glad.
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Apr 2, 2017 15:45
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Considering that I put off watching the last 6 episodes since I had read ahead in this thread regarding episode 45 (and every one since then) and felt some major bullshit was incoming with the sudden villain plot armor (starting with Shino getting hosed up), I finally caught up just now since the series had concluded and I could just process everything at once. The entire concept of Dáinsleifs in of themselves very nearly ruined this show, as they were present in like 90% of the bullshit moments and only really had a good dramatic effect during their first unsavory use in the show (before becoming the villain's go-to trump card for anything that could chance more than their absolute victory, as they had a surprisingly amount on hand for a supposedly warcrime-associated weapon, with apparently nobody else expecting them and thus taking countermeasures, or having their own to use in worthwhile quantities), but surprisingly in the last few episodes the show managed to come through in making something workable of the rear end-pulls that got it there. This makes me feel less annoyed at those things that lead up to the ending. I think every character actually got a pretty good conclusion, and the compromises all the characters seem to implicitly make with regards to the various bits of ideology in the show seems fairly believable - I'd certainly hate Julieta if she was any less humble in the end regarding Tekkadan. Also, all of the dead protagonists getting really badass endings, along with Iok/Nobliss dying, made up for a lot of my grievances. It's a more optimistic ending than I thought we'd get for a while there, with the caveat that one has to acknowledge there are many ways towards progress in the long term (which the protagonists never had an eye for anyhow), even if some routes to the world becoming a better place don't feel particularly good and some of the prime contributors are forgotten or villainized in time. Plot commentary aside, the last couple episodes also seemed like they had really good framing and a lot of effort put into the fight scenes. Oh, one other thing I thought was cool was how Mika himself could likely be said to have gained a sort of legendary status as something roughly equivalent to a mobile armor, with all the talk of him being an animal or a demon and so on (his last fighting moments in particular really emphasizing this), even if this "legend" is used for Gjallarhorn's benefit with Rustal attempting to paint Julieta as a some kind of new Agnika Kaieru in contrast, which she doesn't seem to buy into herself, thankfully. Prude fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 16:02
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That was a pretty good finale, I'll write out my thoughts a bit later but for now I wanted to share this shot from the finale, I thought it was well done. Spoiler warning obviously. 
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Apr 2, 2017 16:14
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Lock Knight posted:Hell of a ride. Also hell of a Ride. They want the frames to be buried along with the rest of the godawful Calamity war. Seeing the destruction wrought by the frames alone when unleashed full power shown that deep down the King of Mars is an empty prize with the only reward being an ever watchful eye of jealous colonial powers who supposedly supposed to benefit from the newfound freedom only learned that they have to kill one another in colonial wars backed by Nobliss because McGillis wouldn't look at a gift horse in the mouth and thinks that Nobliss would help keep Tekkadan in check by providing them with enemies to fight. Keeping the frames as trophies will only create an aura of resentment, just let the instigators be removed and move on. Deep down, Orga and Rustal are different sides on the same coin, both are ruthless and ambitious and unearthed destructive weapons to use against their enemy.
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Apr 2, 2017 16:14
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IBO is possibly the most cynical yet hopeful Gundam series yet. I wasn't super into it as some people here but I found the ending both touching and smart in skipping to years after the conflict ended, showing how the people adapted to it and changed.. I think it would have been better with like twenty less episodes of buildup, but it's still one of the tighter entries in the franchise thematically. It told the story it wanted to tell, even if it took a lot more episodes that it needed to do so. IBO stuck the landing and didn't flake out near the end. That's more you can say about many Gundam series. Not too surprising, given how many of them got cancelled or changed directors along the way.  Also, Iok getting the scissors made me laugh. I'm a terrible human being.
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Apr 2, 2017 16:55
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Let's face it, the real surprise of IBO is the second season somehow managed to get through unscathed from the usual handholding most Gundam series suffer from. I assume someone sacrificed the heart of an animator to make it happen, because there's no way dark magic of some kind wasn't involved.
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Apr 2, 2017 16:58
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GimmickMan posted:Also, Iok getting the scissors made me laugh. I'm a terrible human being. You would be a terrible human being if you didn't laugh.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:04
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Let's face it, the real surprise of IBO is the second season somehow managed to get through unscathed from the usual handholding most Gundam series suffer from. I think there was a small change of direction, in that the Imperial Japan theme became significantly more pronounced in the second season. It would have been much harder to pin that down as a driving theme of the series if it had ended at Edmonton, no matter how bleak the ending happened to be. There may have been some behind-the-scenes readjustments, but if so, they certainly didn't have the impact on the series one might expect (making it safer, making it more toyetic, bringing in popular franchise themes, et cetera).
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Apr 2, 2017 17:05
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That was a good ending and this was a good Gundam. Good on Eugene for not killing Rustal given the chance Have one for the road. 
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Apr 2, 2017 17:06
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The 2nd Season Curse started with Gundam Seed, right?GimmickMan posted:IBO is possibly the most cynical yet hopeful Gundam series yet. I wasn't super into it as some people here but I found the ending both touching and smart in skipping to years after the conflict ended, showing how the people adapted to it and changed.. I think it would have been better with like twenty less episodes of buildup, but it's still one of the tighter entries in the franchise thematically. It told the story it wanted to tell, even if it took a lot more episodes that it needed to do so. IBO stuck the landing and didn't flake out near the end. That's more you can say about many Gundam series. Also, there's no shame in your second spoiler bar. Akihiro was the poo poo to the end and Iok getting SCISSORED TO A BLOODY PASTE was both incredibly loving powerful/badass (on Akihiro's end) and funny/downright pathetic (on Iok's end) for a number of reasons.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:08
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GimmickMan posted:I think it would have been better with like twenty less episodes of buildup, but it's still one of the tighter entries in the franchise thematically. It told the story it wanted to tell, even if it took a lot more episodes that it needed to do so. I don't agree with this. I'll admit I'm only speculating, but it seems to me like they weren't originally planning for 2 seasons. There are a bunch of things in s2 which while they don't contradict s1, they're not supported by it either (Mcgillis' idolization of Agnika Kaieru being the most obvious). This coupled with how the ending of s1 was kinda toothless leads me to believe they were told to make a second season at the end of the first.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:13
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Droyer posted:I don't agree with this. I'll admit I'm only speculating, but it seems to me like they weren't originally planning for 2 seasons. There are a bunch of things in s2 which while they don't contradict s1, they're not supported by it either (Mcgillis' idolization of Agnika Kaieru being the most obvious). This coupled with how the ending of s1 was kinda toothless leads me to believe they were told to make a second season at the end of the first. Season 1's ending definitely feels like someone popped their head in the writer's room at the eleventh hour and went "oh by the way, Bandai wants a second season" given how you can clearly see those fights were clearly meant to end in deaths.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:16
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A useful article on IBO's creation process.
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