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Jack-Off Lantern posted:Why, because Dark Souls 2 is the better game and sequel to both series in this case? This is a good opinion. ...for me to poop on.
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Apr 2, 2017 16:43
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Not enough demons in 2. I keep forgetting they're an endangered species since bed of chaos ate it. I never recognize the piles of dead demons in the lake at first.
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Apr 2, 2017 16:49
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Not enough demons in 2. It kind of makes me feel bad for them.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:03
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Not enough demons in 2. It's my favorite detail/new addition to the Souls lore, and a great handwave for why there are gently caress all in the way of "actual" demons in DS2 (the Demon of Song is unlike any other Demon seen in the game, and I'd wager was just some big monster that people called a demon, rather than a proper one). It also makes the Eleum Loyce battle a bit more significant, because it shows that the efforts of the DS2 protagonist and the Ivory King are ultimately instrumental to keeping the Demon race from possibly resurging again. As a result, by DS3 you have only the last lingering royalty of Izalith, a few frozen over stray demons, and a ruined city full of corpses to remind you that Chaos once surged in Lordran.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:04
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Minrad posted:if dark souls 2 could have been labeled "demon's souls 2" and then there were only 2 dark souls games, people would be a lot happier instead of all the confused expectations imo but Demons Souls had good level design? mastershakeman posted:except there's no indication of where the gently caress to go for that second angels host. knowing to jump off a cliff to that root, which is only viewable from a spot under partial cover, is nuts. so I was running around the swamp in circles trying to figure out the host solution and never went past that sorceress for an hour. it was super frustrating There's no indication you're supposed to do that because you're not supposed to do that. The root you climb to kill the swamp angel loops back around towards another encounter with the second angel and then you drop down on top of Earthen Peek where the bonfire is and right there is the top of that root which leads you down to the summoner.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:05
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Augus posted:but Demons Souls had good level design? And so does 2, so that seems pretty fitting
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Apr 2, 2017 17:10
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Augus posted:but Demons Souls had good level design?
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Apr 2, 2017 17:36
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8-Bit Scholar posted:It would have been pretty insulting to Demon's Souls. Counter point: console exclusives are already inferior to all cross platform games.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:38
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Mighty Dicktron posted:And so does 2, so that seems pretty fitting Two's level design is maybe okay, but no location in 2 feels like a "real" place in the way that Demon's Souls locations do. Boletaria Palace feels really loving believable as an actual castle, complete with a residential area, a high road, and an outer keep. Shortcuts made sense in the context of their levels. DS2 has zones that really serve no other purpose than to be levels in a video game. Iron Keep is a pretty great example--it's a sunken keep that seems to have been constructed entirely out of falling platforms and bridges that would not have made sense if the Keep itself was NOT submerged in lava. The Gutters is kind of okay as an esoteric location, but it fails to be nearly as interesting as Blighttown because there's no connection between it and anything else in the game. Stonefang Mine in Demon's Souls has workshops and forges sprinkled around the level that demonstrate it was a weapons production place as well as a mine. Its shortcuts are mine elevators. Tower of Latria has you finding a bunch of keys to open a bunch of doors because it is a prison and there'd likely be a lot of different keys to make mass prison escapes harder. So many levels in Demons' Souls make sense within their own context, whereas a lot of levels in Dark Souls 2 feel abstract or inorganic. Drangleic Castle is a great, great example; it is designed like a level in a video game, not like a castle in a world. It doesn't feel real, the rooms in it serve no purpose but to present obstacles or objects of interest to the player. Anor Londo and Boletaria Palace, by contrast, all feature elements and details that remind you that these are supposed to be real places where people really lived. The small details matter, and to compound on that how poorly most of DS2's areas connect to each other, each feeling variously disconnected from the other, it only serves to reinforce how artificial the whole world feels. Like, how the gently caress does the mine at Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak actually get its ore out of the area? The road you took in? The narrow rear end bridge and tiny cave tunnel infested with horrible skeletons? The gently caress?
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Apr 2, 2017 17:38
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Dark Souls 2 is a good video game and I enjoy playing it 
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Apr 2, 2017 17:40
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Your Computer posted:Dark Souls 2 is a good video game and I enjoy playing it
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Apr 2, 2017 17:40
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It always bothered me a bit that the king's keep in Dark Souls 2 didn't really feel like a castle, just a bunch of hallways and staircases that lead to nowhere and rooms with basically no set dressing, with a couple big rooms splitting off into smaller dead ends. It looked like a Doom level someone had converted to Dark Souls.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:40
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Well my reading on 2 I posted makes that level design work. Everything is just an obstacle. It's like a vague recollection with only the exciting parts sticking out, so everything is fights jammed together geographicly
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Apr 2, 2017 17:42
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we all know the real export of Earthen Peak is poison jars I mean who doesn't want gallons of dangerous liquid poison stored in easily breakable ceramic vases all around their house? You'd have to be deprived of all your senses to not love it!
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Apr 2, 2017 17:43
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Rubellavator posted:That's just a shortcut, you're supposed to kill the second angel by following the root down after getting past the third angel before you drop down to the bonfire. yeah there's no way I thought this was the right route. to get the items in the second angels area without a shortcut you have to backtrack massively, unless you do suicide runs. I think the problem is I just kept running in circles trying to deal with the second angel instead of just forgetting about them, which isn't how I typically play
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Apr 2, 2017 17:44
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8-Bit Scholar posted:
The gutter is where they throw all the trash and unwanted things and people. Which is also what Majula is, a place for unwanted exiles. And the lost bastille, a prison for unwanted undead. And so on. It absolutely fits with the rest of the game.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:45
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Here's another example, of good DS2 content that still fails to capture its atmosphere. The Sunken City of Shulva, the first DLC, is a really good level, mechanically speaking. It begins very exploratory, with a vertical level full of various weird elevators and rooftops and poo poo. It has a ton of dead ends that force you to warp back to the bonfire or die, which I do not like nearly as much, but it's neat mechanically and the castle afterwards is as well. Here's the problem: the story of Shulva is that the city was wiped out following a raid upon the Dragon Sanctum by some crazy assholes who wanted to kill Sinh. Sinh woke up, blasted the whole city with his poison breath, and has been hanging around being ornery ever since. In other words, like a toxic Pompeii, the city was wipe out overnight, and since it was already underground, it was quickly buried and forgotten, left preserved underneath the earth. ...except that the city doesn't look like it was suddenly wipe out at all. The Sanctum and castle area are just big tombs, by the look of it, and there's no signs of life, you never visit a throne room or anything to bring home the "king" theme of the whole DLC, and you don't even see much evidence that there was any kind of battle or attack or anything. If Demon's Souls had taken that same concept, i guarantee you you'd see things like tattered banners and petrified corpses, frozen market squares grotesquely locked in time, and a lot of small details to suggest and bring home the idea of a city suddenly wiped out at the height of its prosperity. DS2 tells you this happened, it tells that's how it went, but it does nothing to show you, and thus it squanders its own opportunity. EDIT: The Profaned Capitol is like the opposite of this, ironically; it conveys the atmosphere, but it has basically no substance as an actual level mechanically.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:48
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Yeah I basically absorbed none of ds2's lore just strolling through
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Apr 2, 2017 17:51
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SHISHKABOB posted:The gutter is where they throw all the trash and unwanted things and people. Which is also what Majula is, a place for unwanted exiles. And the lost bastille, a prison for unwanted undead. And so on. It absolutely fits with the rest of the game. Dark Souls 2 is a dumpster. metaphorically
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Apr 2, 2017 17:51
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So now that the DLC2 has been out for a bit, does anything change depending on what path you've taken (i.e. lord of hollows) like in DLC1? Any lines of dialogue or otherwise?
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Apr 2, 2017 17:54
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New Concept Hole posted:Dark Souls 2 is a dumpster. Exactly. SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Yeah I basically absorbed none of ds2's lore just strolling through Isn't one of the most avowed parts of souls games that the lore is buried in obscure item descriptions?
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Apr 2, 2017 17:55
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I really appreciate that the end of the world in the DLC has what I'm assuming to be Lothric Castle and Anor Londo still standing, the last and the first kingdoms of the Age of Fire, still standing at the end of all things. Those god architects make their poo poo to last.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:55
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Gologle posted:I really appreciate that the end of the world in the DLC has what I'm assuming to be Lothric Castle and Anor Londo still standing, the last and the first kingdoms of the Age of Fire, still standing at the end of all things. Those god architects make their poo poo to last. ABYSSWALKER GEHRY, ARCHITECT OF THE FIRST FLAME
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Apr 2, 2017 17:58
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CJacobs posted:It always bothered me a bit that the king's keep in Dark Souls 2 didn't really feel like a castle, just a bunch of hallways and staircases that lead to nowhere and rooms with basically no set dressing, with a couple big rooms splitting off into smaller dead ends. It looked like a Doom level someone had converted to Dark Souls. It's got the same problem as what I assume happened with Anor Londo in DS1: furnishings were culled to improve performance, leading to most of the hallways being totally empty of anything to provide a lived-in atmosphere.
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Apr 2, 2017 18:00
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Vermain posted:It's got the same problem as what I assume happened with Anor Londo in DS1: furnishings were culled to improve performance, leading to most of the hallways being totally empty of anything to provide a lived-in atmosphere. Anor Londo at least made up for it for having rooms with a lot of character in them.
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Apr 2, 2017 18:04
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Mighty Dicktron posted:And so does 2, so that seems pretty fitting Base game Dark Souls 2 does have good level design, occasionally. Most of it is bad poopie garbage. Lost Bastille is probably the best level in the game but then you walk over to Sinner's Rise and immediately get a bonfire where archers have a clear shot at you CJacobs posted:It always bothered me a bit that the king's keep in Dark Souls 2 didn't really feel like a castle, just a bunch of hallways and staircases that lead to nowhere and rooms with basically no set dressing, with a couple big rooms splitting off into smaller dead ends. It looked like a Doom level someone had converted to Dark Souls. Haha remember how Nashandra is just sitting on a goofy-rear end throne just randomly placed in this tower outside next to the dual Dragonriders and you talk to her through a window across from her in another tower 5 inches away? What the gently caress is up with that. A lot of stuff in that game feels like they designed the entire level and then didn't know where to put all this important stuff they've got here so they just threw darts at the map. The look of my character always bothered me that game and I couldn't understand why until I took their shirt of and lmao their shoulders are just perfect squares, it looks so fuckin silly. Augus fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 18:10
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She's the yellow keycard and you have to hit a switch to lower her down to the ground level, but be careful because it releases a bunch of imps.
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Apr 2, 2017 18:12
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Lore reason for that one room with the titanite demon in it, please.
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Apr 2, 2017 18:12
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Meanwhile, Demon's Souls basically has the best examples of Souls level design and they did it on the first go. It's a masterpiece.
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Apr 2, 2017 18:14
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Well I rather unexpectedly defeated Darkeater Midir on my high faith build. I went from "HOLY gently caress this is impossible" to "Ok managed to hurt him" to "oh poo poo I visceraled him for 1/4 of his hp and oh drat he's dead??" in about one day. In true Dark Souls fashion. Don't give up! My character has 60 FTH and ATT and is usually a caster but I just used my +10 Lightning Dragonslayers Axe and went to town. I tried casting earlier and while the lightning arrows (seems very efficient for the damage cost ratio) were easy to land and did good damage I ended up needed all the estus I had. I ended up using my chime for only Tears of Denial and Great Heal. Great heal in particular saved my rear end a bunch. The boss has a few long animations like his tantrum one where he goes charging off. Knowing when you have the time to pull one of those off can bring you from 20% HP to full. I also used Fillianores chime skill (which is pretty fast to fire off) in conjunction with the Sun Princess ring and the Ethereal Oak shield for a constant supply of healing to keep me topped up. Since I don't have much VIT I looked for some light armor with good fire/dark resist and settled on a combo of Black Witch and Fire Keeper with the +3 Steel Protection and Flame Stoneplate rings. This fight would probably be easier with a great weapon with more reach than a simple axe since you can only get one or two hits on his head before having to dodge. The key is to stay near his head and attack only that and only when he's vulnerable. I didn't bother with his legs or tail since you need to keep and eye on his upper body for attack tells (this also means don't lock on). When he rears up and roars, book it away from him because he's gonna charge and grab you with his mouth. I had no luck rolling through that so I just ran. Usually he stops right in front of you and you can get 4 or 5 head shots in. When he does his tantrum where he breathes fire and stomps around I didn't bother chasing him since he usually comes back to face you, which saved me a lot of stamina and let me get some good shots in. Also that's a perfect time to heal. When he rears up to breath fire beneath him, run away from him not underneath. Then run back and get a dashing attack in. When you learn when exactly the fire field stops being damaging you can start running back earlier and getting multiple hits in. In his second phase when he occasionally summons those dark soulmass things you can get a ton of headshots in and stagger him, the soulmasses are easy to avoid. Good luck!
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Apr 2, 2017 18:25
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veni veni veni posted:So I haven't played since I finished the game after launch and my only character is about 3/4 of the way through new game plus. What's the DLC difficulty spike? Playing Dark Souls 1 DLC on NG+ plus loving killed me and I never want to do another NG+ Manus. Just gonna quote myself here cause I'm about to fire it up and this is probably gonna get lost in the endless struggle to decide which souls game is best. veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 18:34
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Anor Londo at least made up for it for having rooms with a lot of character in them. So did Drangleic Castle: the entry hallway, the poison mask room, the Ruin Sentinel doors, the Embedded's room, the hallway leading to Mirror Knight, and the walk up to the Throne of Want are all pretty memorable. It's the stuff inbetween them that doesn't do the area much justice.
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Apr 2, 2017 18:36
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Ineffiable posted:Lore reason for that one room with the titanite demon in it, please. Which one 8-Bit Scholar posted:Meanwhile, Demon's Souls basically has the best examples of Souls level design and they did it on the first go. Maybe all the bad ideas were in the Northern Limit
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Apr 2, 2017 18:36
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SHISHKABOB posted:Isn't one of the most avowed parts of souls games that the lore is buried in obscure item descriptions? The details, sure. Though I guess half my problem is two didn't inspire me to dig. Also lol it took my third run to notice Nashandra sitting there before the dragonriders. I was really confused when the Geiger lady showed up
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Apr 2, 2017 18:38
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Vermain posted:It's got the same problem as what I assume happened with Anor Londo in DS1: furnishings were culled to improve performance, leading to most of the hallways being totally empty of anything to provide a lived-in atmosphere. Still better than the Midir boss run. It's like they couldn't think of a place to put it so they just made one of those statues into an illusory wall, added a bunch of empty halls, a ladder and a hole leading to it and called it a day.
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Apr 2, 2017 18:44
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Now that both DLCs are out, is it still ok to buy the season pass to get them both?
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Apr 2, 2017 18:51
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I'm not all the way through yet but there's a clear pattern of TRC being oppressive. The living environmental hazards, the glut of enemies in areas. You spend so much time running from stuff. It feels on purpose. You're a mega bad rear end who's killed gods, but you're still cowed by increasingly ridiculous hazards. Angels, angel but now a poop lake too. Ghosts, ghosts but now regular enemies and it's an open area. Dragon breath lane, okay now fight the dragon on the death bridge unlike all those other times. Also is the mad king the first hollow?
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Apr 2, 2017 18:54
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drat how cool would it be if healing miracles did dark damage over time to enemies in a small radius, like those turtle pilgrim's spells do?
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Apr 2, 2017 19:00
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Am I wrong or is this game way easier than bloodborne? I've got 2 characters going on there to test a skill build and a quality build and I get my poo poo pushed in repeatedly. I'm a lot more comfortable and confident in DS3. Probably because of shields.
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Apr 2, 2017 19:08
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This makes me think we should have been able to summon Yoel for boss fights so we could see him do the turtle pinball attack.
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Apr 2, 2017 19:09
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