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Earwicker posted:That is an interesting direction and plausible for sure. But what about the fact that Stan and Alderholt are going around trying to talk to people who deal with those same agricop companies, and being coldly refused? Stan and Aderholt are trying to talk to Soviet nationals, if I'm thinking of the same things you're thinking? Well, paranoia was an art form in the USSR. Remember, this is the same KGB that kidnapped and tortured their own agents, a few seasons back, as a routine loyalty check. And those agents took it as a given that such things would happen. Those guys that Stan and Aderholt were talking to had an implicit understanding that they might have just been talking to KGB agents. They'd immediately go fill out a 'contact with foreigners' type report and submit it to the KGB. They'd understand that if they were seen talking to these guys in any way that could be construed, shall we say, 'poorly,' well, their families are probably still back home. This is still a country where your sentence is partially defined by which type of forced-labour camp you're sent to. When getting sent to a camp of 'moderate regime' is literally a plea-bargain; nobody wants to go to a camp of strict regime.
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Apr 3, 2017 15:41
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Maybe I'm misremembering but I don't remember those guys being Soviet nationals? They seemed like random American businessmen who had dealings with some of the same agriculture companies that P&E are dealing with, but I don't remember them having Russian accents or names or anything. Maybe I was just too high and missed that..
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Apr 3, 2017 15:43
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Propaganda Machine posted:But I didn't think she was directorate s? It's been a while, of course. She is or was anyway, just did a rewatch waiting for s5 to air and I think that may be my favorite moment from the first season.. "I'm ready Mischa" And I wouldn't say that Nina failed so much, more that she grew as a person and decided atonement was the better option and then sorta slipped up while trying for that. I really liked her arc actually even the end, just a shame they couldn't wrap it up the previous season. But while the cell mate literally got her out of prison it was more of a test, I wouldn't exactly consider trapped in a Siberian research facility as 'free'. Earwicker posted:They'd have to jump ahead 5 years in time to do that, which would definitely be a break with the speed of the show and also thats harder to deal with when you have teenage actors Unfortunately I have to agree with this, as much as I'd love to watch Liz's face as the wall comes down I just don't see how it'd work. Like her or hate her Paige is pretty much central to the heart of the show (family not spycraft) and unless she catches a growth spurt to match her brother's five years would be a huge stretch and getting a new actress would almost feel cheap. Besides that'd be way too happy of an ending, no way Liz makes it that far. If it were me I'd make the final season from the perspective of the FBI, catch some damning evidence in this year's finale and spend the last ten episodes chasing down the leads until of course Stan ends up in front of his own house.
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Apr 3, 2017 15:44
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LostOne posted:If it were me I'd make the final season from the perspective of the FBI, catch some damning evidence in this year's finale and spend the last ten episodes chasing down the leads until of course Stan ends up in front of his own house. I wouldn't be surprised if the last episode had a scene mirroring the one from the pilot where Stan breaks into P&E's garage in the middle of the night And I also wouldn't be surprised if the show ends with the FBI swarming up on their house and then its just left like that, we don't actually know their fate
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Apr 3, 2017 15:48
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LostOne posted:Like her or hate her Paige is pretty much central to the heart of the show (family not spycraft) and unless she catches a growth spurt to match her brother's five years would be a huge stretch and getting a new actress would almost feel cheap. Besides that'd be way too happy of an ending, no way Liz makes it that far. Not a problem if Paige dies because of something having to do with her parents' night job. Also, I think it's a possibility that just one of either Liz or Phil will be caught.
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Apr 3, 2017 16:07
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Earwicker posted:Maybe I'm misremembering but I don't remember those guys being Soviet nationals? They seemed like random American businessmen who had dealings with some of the same agriculture companies that P&E are dealing with, but I don't remember them having Russian accents or names or anything. Maybe I was just too high and missed that.. In Episode 3, they go to a diner, sit down on either side of a guy, and say 'Hello, Anatolyi' and 'we know you work for Aeroflot.' Later on, they hit up a guy named 'Mr. Pirogov' who works for Amtorg. This is also intended to illustrate the difference between the capabilities of the USSR and the US; the USSR were acknowledge as the masters of The Great Game. When the USSR wants to find out something from the Americans, maybe they send in their deep-cover operatives to build a full legend, arrange a 'chance' meeting, and engineer a relationship. The US sends a couple of G-Men to bother you while you're taking a piss. LostOne posted:Unfortunately I have to agree with this, as much as I'd love to watch Liz's face as the wall comes down I just don't see how it'd work. Like her or hate her Paige is pretty much central to the heart of the show (family not spycraft) and unless she catches a growth spurt to match her brother's five years would be a huge stretch and getting a new actress would almost feel cheap. Besides that'd be way too happy of an ending, no way Liz makes it that far. I'm not sure why this would be an issue. Put Holly Taylor in not-teenager clothes, crimp her hair (hey, it's the 90s) and a few other Hollywood aging tricks, and Bob's your uncle. Hell, the actress is already four years older than the character; to 'age' the character of Paige five years, they'd basically just not do what they're already doing to de-age the actress.
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Apr 3, 2017 16:29
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Longbaugh01 posted:Not a problem if Paige dies because of something having to do with her parents' night job. Ouch that's cold, and totally something I could see happening on this show. I do get the same feeling that one might get away, common wisdom would probably be Phil absconding with the kids while Liz goes down in a blaze of glory but just to keep things interesting I say flip it.. Phil goes down (maybe alive probably not) and Liz gets to suffer in America only to eventually watch everything she believes in collapse. Earwicker posted:I wouldn't be surprised if the last episode had a scene mirroring the one from the pilot where Stan breaks into P&E's garage in the middle of the night That would be a great scene if they go for it, my favorite thing about Stan's character is that while he may seem goofy when he's talking about dating or sneaking in for a free meal he *is* very competent at his job. And that would be a pretty great ending, especially since the real end result of being traded back to the Soviet Union a year later would be rather anticlimactic. TheCenturion posted:I'm not sure why this would be an issue. Put Holly Taylor in not-teenager clothes, crimp her hair (hey, it's the 90s) and a few other Hollywood aging tricks, and Bob's your uncle. Hell, the actress is already four years older than the character; to 'age' the character of Paige five years, they'd basically just not do what they're already doing to de-age the actress. That's a fair point, I think she just seems so much younger this season compared to Henry who now is probably taller than I am. Still I don't think there's any way you can have such villainous protagonists getting anything close to a happy ending.. maybe Elizabeth gets away with five more years only to suffer the indignity of her homeland losing the Cold War despite all of her effort.
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Apr 3, 2017 16:54
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I think it's possible Henry is the only Jennings getting out alive.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:00
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Elizabeth runs off with Pastor Tim to build Real Socialism in a commune in the woods of western PA Philip agrees to sell everything he knows to the FBI and DoD in exchange for cash which he spends on a collection of American muscle cars and eventually opens a repair shop called Mischa and Son Paige, who was starting to become a valuable agent by the time the wall came down, transfers to the FSB and spends the 2016 pretending to be Bernie Bros on the internet Oleg does a good job at his current post and is promoted, eventually moving into politics and befriending Boris Yeltsin, eventually becoming a Medvedev-esque figure under Putin Stan is fired and tries to defect but is too late to secure any kind of good position and winds up as a news anchor on Russia Today, eventually dying after a "mishap" in which he "falls" out of a fourth floor window.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:06
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I just started watching the show a month or so ago, finally caught up from the beginning to the last aired episode.Longbaugh01 posted:Wait. Does Mischa know Phillip is an agent with a cover? There's nothing indicating he was told or knows.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:16
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Doctor Butts posted:There's nothing indicating he was told or knows. If this is so, then yeah, him just barging into their lives is problematic at best. Though if he knows his mother was Directorate S and they had him during that time, you'd think he'd at least suspect his father was also DS.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:29
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Fast Luck posted:The last few seasons have had a lot of good moments of Henry being like a more lowkey AJ Soprano-style gently caress up, and I really enjoyed it. Seems like this season he's almost never there and they're always calling attention to his absence by making up an excuse for it I think they're calling attention to his absence so that they are letting the viewer know that Elizabeth, Philip, and Paige are going to talk about some spy stuff. It's why he was on the computer the whole loving time last season. anatoliy pltkrvkay posted:Doubtful. Oleg was assigned to work on science and technology intel. Closest he got to Martha was transcribing Mail Robot beeps. Oleg knew nothing about her. He was only ever involved with the operation to read mail robot transcripts and locating a plane/pilot so that agents could sneak Martha out of the country.
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Apr 3, 2017 17:38
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Paige is going to kill everyone and drive off in the Camaro. 
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Apr 3, 2017 18:08
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Keyser S0ze posted:Paige is going to kill everyone and drive off in the Camaro. I think someone mentioned it before, but Paige ending up like that son who killed his illegal parents has a certain amount of symmetry to it.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:55
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Longbaugh01 posted:I think someone mentioned it before, but Paige ending up like that son who killed his illegal parents has a certain amount of symmetry to it. 1989: Paige kills her illegal parents on federal land, credits roll. 2017: (post credits scene) Paige is released from prison after receiving a presidential pardon.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:58
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Number Ten Cocks posted:1989: Paige kills her illegal parents on federal land, credits roll. You have it backwards. 2017 POTUS posthumously pardons the Russian agents and awards them the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Paige gets the chair.
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Apr 3, 2017 19:04
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Stan: Hey, Aderholt, can you believe this? Aderholt: Yeah, I know. First Martha, now it turns out your next door neighbours are commie spies? Stan: And to think we'd never have known if their daughter hadn't let slip to my son while smoking ganja. Aderholt: Well, we take the breaks we can get. Hey, do you think we can use the daughter against the parents? Make her a double-agent, like? Stan: You mean *sunglasses* turn the Paige? YEEEAAHHHHHHH
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Apr 3, 2017 19:15
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The guy who plays Stan would be perfect for the inevitable Naked Gun reboot
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Apr 3, 2017 19:25
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I don't foresee Stan having any happier of an ending either. In fact I think it's possible he'll get fired (or worse) before Philip and Elizabeth get caught.
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Apr 3, 2017 19:33
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Earwicker posted:I don't foresee Stan having any happier of an ending either. In fact I think it's possible he'll get fired (or worse) before Philip and Elizabeth get caught. Or relegated to being the 'pudgy guy' helping Tom Hanks' character catch Frank Abagnale in the Check Fraud division.
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Apr 3, 2017 19:39
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I wonder if Stan might actually end up helping them... (...I mean if you think about it a lot of his arc has always been building empathy with supposed enemies like Nina and Oleg.)
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Apr 3, 2017 20:21
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Longbaugh01 posted:I wonder if Stan might actually end up helping them... Uh, no. I could see Stan murdering the both of them, though. Phil is basically Stan's only non-work friend - and learning after all this time that your *only* non-work friend was a Soviet agent who you can never be sure was genuinely concerned in the slightest with your problems past "does he know who I really am" would be kind of a shock, to say nothing of "oh god you're trying to turn my son into a Commie with your daughter." Remember, Stan's probably still working off the whole "I had to pretend to be a white supremacist neo-Nazi for years" thing, where HE had to pretend to be friends with the most toxic community you can imagine.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:28
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Phil is basically Stan's only non-Uh, no. I could see Stan murdering the both of them, though. work friend - and learning after all this time that your *only* non-work friend was a Soviet agent who you can never be sure was genuinely concerned in the slightest with your problems past "does he know who I really am" would be kind of a shock, to say nothing of "oh god you're trying to turn my son into a Commie with your daughter." Remember, Stan's probably still working off the whole "I had to pretend to be a white supremacist neo-Nazi for years" thing, where HE had to pretend to be friends with the most toxic community you can imagine. Well, being his only non-work friend would be a point in my favor I think, and him being an agent with a cover himself at one point might also actually help him relate, but I'll cede the point simply because I just remembered how violently Stan reacted when he thought the worst thing was that Phillip was boning his ex-wife.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:31
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Longbaugh01 posted:Well, being his only non-work friend would be a point in my favor I think, and him being an agent with a cover himself at one point might also actually help him relate, but I'll cede the point simply because I just remembered how violently Stan reacted when he thought the worst thing was that Phillip was boning his ex-wife. I'll compromise in the sense that I think an actual fight between Phil and Stan would be *amazing*. Stan looks like the type who'd still have his hands around Phil's neck even after Liz had stabbed him fifty times in the back - like a paler Brock Samson.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:37
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kind of depends on how much he finds out. There's finding out Phil is a Soviet spy, and then there's finding out Phil is the Soviet spy who killed his partner, seduced and married Martha, had Gaad's office bugged, faked the suicide of that FBI IT guy or whoever it was, etc. etc.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:41
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I think there’s a good chance Stan would just break down. He’s a wreck.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:55
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The thing to remember is that Stan's story this year, so far, is paralleling P&Es, which is to say: disillusionment with his government's goals and policies, with stated versus actual ideals. Stan is still pissed about Amador. He's pissed about Martha. He's pissed about Nina. He's pissed that Gaad was killed, and nobody seems to care. He's pissed that his personal connection with Oleg is being used against him. If it turns out his new chippie is a plant by anybody, that's going to hurt him. On the other hand, the last time he had somebody who'd pissed him off in his power, he murdered him, in cold blood, as I recall. Stan could go a few different ways. Maybe he'd go after P&E with a vengeance, and they'd be 'shot trying to escape.' Maybe he'd break down and off himself. Maybe he'll come to the conclusion that he and Phil have more in common with each other, than with Moscow/Washington, and they'll reach their own version of détente. Maybe one of the epilogue scenes from ten or twenty years down the road will be Stan getting off a plane in Moscow, and going out with Phillip for a drink while they reminisce about old times. "We were foes, but we weren't enemies. It was all part of the Game." Hell, maybe Oleg will try to burn Stan, assuming Stan is trying to burn him, and it'll go in a completely different direction. I love this show so much.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:03
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TheCenturion posted:I love this show so much. For sure. This late in the game and it could go in and end up in a myriad of ways without feeling contrived. That's a mark of a good show.
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Apr 3, 2017 22:17
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Elizabeth spontaneously combusts after the USSR falls, and Philip gets a job at Rent A Center. Stan also becomes FBI King after unmasking a vampire conspiracy.
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Apr 3, 2017 22:22
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Stan gets demoted to a windowless basement office in the Hoover building with file cabinet upon file cabinet of strange and unsolved cases. Starts throwing pencils into the ceiling to relieve boredom.
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Apr 3, 2017 23:33
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I'd be shocked if the series doesn't end with Stan getting killed by Phillip/Elizabeth to cover up their activities, only for it to be for nothing as the wall goes down and the Soviet Union collapses.
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Apr 4, 2017 00:33
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Party Plane Jones posted:I'd be shocked if the series doesn't end with Stan getting killed by Phillip/Elizabeth to cover up their activities, only for it to be for nothing as the wall goes down and the Soviet Union collapses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1o3koTLWM
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Apr 4, 2017 00:35
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with the pace they've set there's no real way they could do it but it'd be interesting to see what becomes of philip and elizabeth's idealism as russia becomes a hypercapitalist kleptocracy in the 90s
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Apr 4, 2017 00:59
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Party Plane Jones posted:I'd be shocked if the series doesn't end with Stan getting killed by Phillip/Elizabeth to cover up their activities, only for it to be for nothing as the wall goes down and the Soviet Union collapses. Phil and Liz finally convert Paige and she kills Stan. Then the wall collapses
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Apr 4, 2017 01:22
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Party Plane Jones posted:I'd be shocked if the series doesn't end with Stan getting killed by Phillip/Elizabeth to cover up their activities, only for it to be for nothing as the wall goes down and the Soviet Union collapses. I still don't get why so many posters in this thread think that after the Soviet Union ended all Soviet spies abroad just gave up and stopped being spies like they lost a board game.
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Apr 4, 2017 02:18
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I still don't get why so many posters in this thread think that after the Soviet Union ended all Soviet spies abroad just gave up and stopped being spies like they lost a board game. I don't think that's what any of us mean by it at all.
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Apr 4, 2017 02:50
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I still don't get why so many posters in this thread think that after the Soviet Union ended all Soviet spies abroad just gave up and stopped being spies like they lost a board game. Elizabeth in particular has so much of her identity wrapped up in the correctness of the Soviet Union's cause that it's natural to wonder how she will react when it all falls apart seemingly overnight, and the United States "wins"
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Apr 4, 2017 03:17
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I still don't get why so many posters in this thread think that after the Soviet Union ended all Soviet spies abroad just gave up and stopped being spies like they lost a board game. No one thinks that but we're talking about the universe of the show and these particular characters, their fate is going to be based more on what the writers feel is dramatically appropriate than what would have actually happened to spies in real life. I don't think post-Soviet careers in Russian intelligence are very likely for them. maybe for Paige or Henry.
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Apr 4, 2017 03:18
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I still don't get why so many posters in this thread think that after the Soviet Union ended all Soviet spies abroad just gave up and stopped being spies like they lost a board game. While the KGB didn't exactly go "welp, Soviet Union's over, time to pack up our poo poo and go home," the collapse of the USSR did (shockingly) have some impact on the Russian intelligence community. Yeltsin had no great love for the state security apparatus, and didn't really seek to preserve it--I'd argue that he was trying to actively dismantle it by splintering it into the SVR, FSB, FAPSI, and whatever else, but was somewhat distracted by the rapid collapse of much of the economy, failure to form functioning separated powers in the federal goverment, and the desire to hold onto a semblance of democracy going into the 1996 elections despite the various issues exposed by the constitutional crisis, first Chechen war, aforementioned economic issues, etc. etc. Unless The Americans intends to do a massive, massive timeskip for season 6, the realistic endgame for the series is either somewhere in a period of collapse and confusion or some very unpleasant recovery. The Soviet security services didn't just stop in 1989/1991, but they sure as hell didn't head into a period of quiet business as usual while the rest of the country sorted itself out either.
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Apr 4, 2017 04:18
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Earwicker posted:No one thinks that but we're talking about the universe of the show and these particular characters, their fate is going to be based more on what the writers feel is dramatically appropriate than what would have actually happened to spies in real life. I don't think post-Soviet careers in Russian intelligence are very likely for them. maybe for Paige or Henry. I think Henry has a career in the NBA at this rate.
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Apr 4, 2017 04:33
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