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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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33 | 6.38% |
| No |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:My hatred for Bernie Sanders is so all-encompassing that I want a Democratic Party so far to the left that he is sent to the gulag as a revisionist class traitor That would be beautiful, and I think Comrade Sanders would gladly make the selfless sacrifice to remove himself from the way of youth and progress. Unlike Rodham Clinton. 
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Apr 3, 2017 21:10
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Frijolero posted:
Obama was probably the biggest disappointment in human history lol Hillary campaigned on being a continuation of a huge disappointment. Wonder why she lost 🤔
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Apr 3, 2017 21:12
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Obama and Dems did nothing for immigration with their majority
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Ytlaya posted:Hahaha, I had no idea I was responsible for the use of "dumb leftist." JC will undoubtedly claim he agrees with this reading of it 100% and then go on to use the term to shut down discussion with everyone ITT to the left of Chuck Schumer, except Majorian because you always need the exception to prove the rule. But now his shittiness is 100% on him again, so that's good.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:15
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Crowsbeak posted:I like how you are defending the iraq war now. Did you ever even turn up in a recruiting station? Also sociopath the gops campaign has always been to make the dems gop lite which is also your strategy. So your response to being completely wrong is to just make up an entirely new argument from me in your head? I assume this is your way of admitting I'm right and you're a moron? Seriously, what goes on in your brain that you read 'the Iraq war was not caused by a no fly zone' and think that this is in favor of the Iraq war? And no, the Gop strategy has been to drive people away from the dems, by accusing them of whatever Republicans are doing. Which is also your strategy.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:15
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:My hatred for Bernie Sanders is so all-encompassing that I want a Democratic Party so far to the left that he is sent to the gulag as a revisionist class traitor have you finally stopped saying rural peeps should die in a ditch yet? cause i have trouble thinking of you as leftist at all thanks to that  i want to believe you've turned over a new leaf JC, so i'm hopeful you're more amenable to helping the rural poor now
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Apr 3, 2017 21:16
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Fulchrum posted:
So the last minute racist conspiracy theories did nothing to swing a close vote. Get the gently caress outta here, you disingenuous poo poo. This is literally pointing out how your beloved centrists use racism to their benefit and you want to ignore it call it conspiracy and suggest that it is the left who can't wait to throw minorities under the bus. It's great he got the position he did, but Perez supporters in the DNC used racist sentiment to further ensure that he would win. This is a thing that loving happened for all of us to see and we're supposed to believe your poo poo rear end wing of the party are the bedrock of racial tolerance. You must think everyone is s blind idiot KomradeX fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 21:17
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Fulchrum posted:They had a veto-proof majority for 30 days and used it to reform healthcare. I assume they should have used Congress's magical time distortion powers so that they could make every day longer and do 4 years worth of voting in a month? Poor little Dems  And silly me for voting for them in 2008. I should've lowered my expectations.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:19
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Remember when Alan Dershowitz promised he would leave the party if Ellison was elected, and then afterwards went ahead and gave Trump some kind advice on how to get his Muslim ban through the courts? I guess that's just the sort of political subtlety you have to accommodate in a big tent party! 
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Apr 3, 2017 21:20
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Ytlaya posted:Hahaha, I had no idea I was responsible for the use of "dumb leftist." i'm of the opinion that mainstream dem politicians are terrible and evil. that's the only way i can explain them turning cynically anti-war and anti-dicatator when they're out of power and then happily embracing nation building and murderous thugs like sisi when they get power.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:20
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KomradeX posted:So the last minute racist conspiracy theories did nothing to swing a close vote. Get the gently caress outta here, you disingenuous poo poo. This is literally pointing out how your beloved centrists use racism to their benefit and you want to ignore it call it conspiracy add suggest that it is the left who can't wait to throw minorities under the bus. It's great he got the position he did, but Perez supporters in the DNC used racist sentiment to further ensure that he would win. This is a thing that loving happened for all of us to see and we're supposed to believe your poo poo rear end wing of the party are the bedrock of racial tolerance. You must think everyone is s blind idiot Last minute? What the gently caress are you smoking? They were there from the first day that Ellison announced his candidacy. No-one in the DNC ever gave a single solitary poo poo. In fact, they threw out the guy who did try to use racist attacks on Ellison (Vincent Tolliver. A name you absolutely will drop down the memory chute cause that little fact goes against your conspiracy). You are seriously clinging to the only reason anyone could possibly prefer Perez to Ellison is racism. This is loving insanity.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:26
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Kilroy posted:Remember when Alan Dershowitz promised he would leave the party if Ellison was elected, and then afterwards went ahead and gave Trump some kind advice on how to get his Muslim ban through the courts? I too make decisions based solely off of what idiots say and completely ignore the resumes of the people running.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:27
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Fulchrum posted:I too make decisions based solely off of what idiots say and completely ignore the resumes of the people running.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:28
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Fulchrum posted:Last minute? What the gently caress are you smoking? They were there from the first day that Ellison announced his candidacy. No-one in the DNC ever gave a single solitary poo poo. In fact, they threw out the guy who did try to use racist attacks on Ellison (Vincent Tolliver. A name you absolutely will drop down the memory chute cause that little fact goes against your conspiracy). dershowitz called him an anti-semite, and he's still in the party. material calling him anti-semitic was being circulated among delegates right up till the vote happened you are actually gonna call an instance of racism in our party no big deal? i thought you were a stalwart anti-racist?
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Apr 3, 2017 21:29
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Fulchrum posted:Last minute? What the gently caress are you smoking? They were there from the first day that Ellison announced his candidacy. No-one in the DNC ever gave a single solitary poo poo. In fact, they threw out the guy who did try to use racist attacks on Ellison (Vincent Tolliver. A name you absolutely will drop down the memory chute cause that little fact goes against your conspiracy). Suddenly when it fits the centrist narrative, racism and bigotry in general is absolutely dead. As soon as a challenger appears, he is an embodiment of bigotry deeply ingrained in society in a variety of subtle ways.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:30
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flattery will get you nowhere
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Apr 3, 2017 21:30
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This dog is not fat.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:31
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R. Guyovich posted:This dog is not fat. As a poodle owner, I insist he is at least overweight.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:32
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Fulchrum posted:Last minute? What the gently caress are you smoking? They were there from the first day that Ellison announced his candidacy. No-one in the DNC ever gave a single solitary poo poo. In fact, they threw out the guy who did try to use racist attacks on Ellison (Vincent Tolliver. A name you absolutely will drop down the memory chute cause that little fact goes against your conspiracy). Yes you gently caress, last minute during the second round of voting. gently caress this isn't even the only example of Democrats being racist. How quickly you flushed Clinton South Carolina 2008 down the loving memory hole. You can go on thinking everyone is a idiot. But dog this poo poo is only going to hurt the democrats in the long run. gently caress you for covering for the racism of the upper class.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:34
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Ytlaya posted:Another example of "dumb leftists" are the ones who buy into right wing propaganda about Clinton being some unusually evil/terrible politician. I did not like Clinton, but she was a pretty normal Democratic mainstream Democratic politician. 1. Being a normal, mainstream Democrat is actually not that great, as evidenced by the million apologies that Clinton had to give throughout her run for president. 2. The candidate for president of the Democratic Party, who had the almost unanimous backing of the party's establishment, should be better than "normal mainstream Democratic politician" anyway.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:36
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steinrokkan posted:As a poodle owner, I insist he is at least overweight. i'm convinced
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Apr 3, 2017 21:37
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Condiv posted:dershowitz called him an anti-semite, and he's still in the party. material calling him anti-semitic was being circulated among delegates right up till the vote happened Material calling Hillary a barren bitch and murderer was being spread amongst Bernie voters til the day that the primary ended and beyond it. I assume that you want to say how big of a deal that was and how it is what motivated all of Bernies voters? People were trying to use racist attacks on Ellison, that is true. However, there is nothing outside of ducked up persecution complex induced conspiracy theories to suggest this impacted the vote. If it did then Ellison wouldn't have been handed the only position they could give him without votes.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:37
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Condiv posted:dershowitz called him an anti-semite, and he's still in the party. material calling him anti-semitic was being circulated among delegates right up till the vote happened Apparently, racism in the defense of centrism is no vice.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:37
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Condiv posted:have you finally stopped saying rural peeps should die in a ditch yet? cause i have trouble thinking of you as leftist at all thanks to that  
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Apr 3, 2017 21:38
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Fulchrum posted:So your response to being completely wrong is to just make up an entirely new argument from me in your head? I assume this is your way of admitting I'm right and you're a moron? I think that you're projecting a lot
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Apr 3, 2017 21:38
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Fulchrum posted:Last minute? What the gently caress are you smoking? They were there from the first day that Ellison announced his candidacy. No-one in the DNC ever gave a single solitary poo poo. In fact, they threw out the guy who did try to use racist attacks on Ellison (Vincent Tolliver. A name you absolutely will drop down the memory chute cause that little fact goes against your conspiracy). I don't think anyone is arguing that people prefered Perez to Ellison because of racism. They are arguing, correctly, that Democrats used his religion as a negative. This is the party that is supposedly against Trump's anti-muslim sentiment, and yet they're doing this.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:39
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like, there were thinkpieces being written all the time asking if ellison was really who we needed to appeal to voters in this new age of trumpism thanks to him being a black muslim. remember when a centrist started blasting his nomination by bernie cause "bernie should really have nominated someone from the rust belt!!"? we had the exact same handwringing about running a black candidate that we had when 08 obama was running. oddly enough, that self-same handwringing about scaring racist voters off helps to make sure that the dem party remains firmly under the control of lily-white people
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Apr 3, 2017 21:39
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Fulchrum posted:Material calling Hillary a barren bitch and murderer was being spread amongst Bernie voters til the day that the primary ended and beyond it. I assume that you want to say how big of a deal that was and how it is what motivated all of Bernies voters? But she is a murderer, since she eagerly voted to invade Iraq and murder civilians in the pretext of "NINE ELEVEN"
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Apr 3, 2017 21:40
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Fulchrum posted:Material calling Hillary a barren bitch and murderer was being spread amongst Bernie voters til the day that the primary ended and beyond it. I assume that you want to say how big of a deal that was and how it is what motivated all of Bernies voters? You're equating social media nonsense to Ellison being called an anti-semite by major news corporations and donors like Haim Saban.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:40
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i have family in oklahoma, all who are more centrist and better supporters of hillary than i ever was. why do you still think they deserve to suffer more than dems living in a blood red state already do?
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Apr 3, 2017 21:42
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material calling hillary a filthy river hog, a backstabbing hobgoblin, a degenerate shitbat, a loveless invertebrate leech, and an ant-infested pumpkin was circulated by russian hackers amongst bernie voters before, during and after the election
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Apr 3, 2017 21:43
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The criticism of Ellison for being 'anti-semitic' and for being 'friends with Farrakhan' or whatever is what people close to Obama were telling reporters; it's what appeared in stories that covered the race for DNC. People went, and told reporters this. These are the same people who want to paint Democrats as being brave defenders of the muslim faith.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:44
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I've thought Hillary was a slimy piece of poo poo since 2008 and I still voted for her in October. All this fear about fake news is stupid as gently caress. Also, centrist scum never admit that Bernie voters ended up voting for Hillary no problem.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:46
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Fulchrum posted:Material calling Hillary a barren bitch and murderer was being spread amongst Bernie voters til the day that the primary ended and beyond it. I assume that you want to say how big of a deal that was and how it is what motivated all of Bernies voters? so it doesn't matter if the leadership of our party is racist if you don't think it hurt him badly? is that how you rationalize clinton's racism in 08? like, why do you think it's ok we have racists in power in the DNC?
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Apr 3, 2017 21:46
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There's basically a big case of denial in this thread from people who are still very supportive of the Democrats. They refuse to see that when Democrats are bad on issues (even if they are better than Republicans), it undercuts any claim they want to make about being good. Democrats don't run on being 'lesser of two evils'. They run on being good. If you are not good by the standards by which you're running, people are going to notice.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:47
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Pedro De Heredia posted:I don't think anyone is arguing that people prefered Perez to Ellison because of racism. "Democrats" didn't. A voter in the Democratic party who does not hold sway, influence or power, did. There is a giant gently caress-off difference between these two points you are not acknowledging. Hell, by this logic, Republicans cannot be racist, since A Republican Voter said he would leave the party if Trump became the nominee because he says racist things. When someone was in a position where they could shut him out started using racist attacks against Ellison, the dems threw him the gently caress out. That shows the party leaderships attitude towards islamaphobia. Not whatever the gently caress Dershowitz thinks. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 21:48
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Calibanibal posted:material calling hillary a filthy river hog, a backstabbing hobgoblin, a degenerate shitbat, a loveless invertebrate leech, and an ant-infested pumpkin was circulated by russian hackers amongst bernie voters before, during and after the election
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Apr 3, 2017 21:49
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Fulchrum posted:"Democrats" didn't. A voter in the Democratic party who does not hold sway, influence or power, did. There is a giant gently caress-off difference between these two points you are not acknowledging. that is a full-on lie and you know it. one of the dems biggest donors was doing it, and has has influence and power.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:49
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Fulchrum posted:"Democrats" didn't. A voter in the Democratic party who does not hold sway, influence or power, did. There is a giant gently caress-off difference between these two points you are not acknowledging. I am not acknowledging it because it's not true. It was not "a voter". Read this article, for instance. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/democrats-leadership-fight-pits-west-wing-against-left-wing.html?_r=0 This is an article from November. It is clear from reading the article that the sources are people close to Obama. They, as the sources, are roughly guiding the story. When anti-semitism is brought up, it is because these people specifically told the reporter about it, and the reporter then pursued the line of questioning. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 21:50
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Ytlaya posted:Hahaha, I had no idea I was responsible for the use of "dumb leftist." I agree with you on Clinton, she lost for a number of reasons and I'll admit it wasn't because of her economic proposals (whatever those were). However Americans are truly desperate for a change, and keeping with the status quo economically but socially more liberal (the perception of Hilary) wasn't going to cut it. I almost want to say Hillary herself didn't play that large of a role with why she lost. There's just so many factors out of her control. I could sit here and blame her for being poorly inarticulate with her policies that would help Americans or just generally her poor messaging ("check out my website!"). Her campaign thought they could get away with just smearing Trump's character and they were almost right, however there are still too many older Americans that couldn't wait to pull the lever for Trump. Like I think a lot of the analysis I've read post-election, like this is result of decades of neoliberal policies, the failure of identity politics, and so on I almost wonder if that's slightly knee-jerkish. For sure those are very valid interpretations and I buy those arguments but it's not like Trump won in a landslide victory so I'm hesitant to how much it played a role. I still think a lot of the blame is squarely on Obama's failure to make some significant structural changes post-Recession and a lukewarm recovery pretty much costed Hilary's chances. Had we been in something of a booming economy she would have had a better chance. You might disagree but I still think the economy (and those affected by the sluggish recovery) principally had the most influence on voters. Of course the lack of enthusiasm for Hilary's campaign contributed, no doubt, to lack of turnout especially those bitter over Bernie. Confounding Factor fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 21:50
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Condiv posted:that is a full-on lie and you know it. one of the dems biggest donors was doing it, and has has influence and power. As very serious people have explained multiple times, donors give money out of the goodness of their hearts for no apparent reason and there is no influence tied to that whatsoever.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:51
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