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CottonWolf posted:I thought that with that line, but I don't understand Kinzo's reaction at all. You could brush it away with "he's insane", but within presumably a couple of months, he's lost young Beatrice and her child, and he seems completely chill about it. I'm very much in favour of that theory, and I think that it's a really odd response if it's right. It's possible it just finally broke him and he lost himself to the madness that continued to his death.
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Apr 1, 2017 19:44
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CottonWolf posted:I'm not sure that fits with what we know about Beatrice's motivation. If it's about being denied their place in the family or the headship, that doesn't seem to gel with explicitly being about making Battler see something. This has to be to do with something that happened the last time Battler was at the family conference, and I can't see how that relates. Sorry, I was unclear (I'll blame the Oxycodone). This would be a motivation for Natsuhi's caller, not Beatrice. But the idea that there was no caller, only Natsuhi's imagination and guilt, makes sense too. As we learn more about her, she's not looking any too stable herself. The best counter I can offer is the subtitle: Without Love it Can Not Be Seen. All the fantasies (that we're sure are fantasies) have been somebody imagining something they want, not something they fear. CottonWolf raises another possibility: the baby is Beatrice, in the sense of a murderer lurking around the island. As usual, to get any additional person there's going to be some weaseling around the red text, but that condition was stated so oddly I bet there is a way.
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Apr 1, 2017 20:34
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BurningStone posted:Sorry, I was unclear (I'll blame the Oxycodone). woooo, oxycodone buddies
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Apr 1, 2017 20:35
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drat, kidney stones seems to be in vogue on the LP subforum now.
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Apr 1, 2017 20:39
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ProfessorProf posted:woooo, oxycodone buddies I'd fist bump you, but I'd probably miss.
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Apr 1, 2017 21:18
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Wow, I go away for a funeral and then have to catch up on some studying and I ended up missing a lot.CottonWolf posted:I thought that with that line, but I don't understand Kinzo's reaction at all. You could brush it away with "he's insane", but within presumably a couple of months, he's lost young Beatrice and her child, and he seems completely chill about it. I'm very much in favour of that theory, and I think that it's a really odd response if it's right. I think he just snapped. From the timeline with the gold, it seems like the locked up Beatrice from Rosa's story can't have been the first one he met. No idea if she died or he just never got close to her like Dante's Beatrice. Anyway, instead he steals/adopts some baby and creepily keeps it locked up and raises it to be like OG Beatrice. This Beatrice is then killed when Rosa tries to save her, but she probably had a child with Kinzo before that. Then Natsuhi goes and loses the kid too and Kinzo is all out of good replacement Beatrices and locks himself up in his study to study actual revival magic instead of being a gross creeper raising kids to be his lost love. From his perspective Beatrice would have died on him thrice, probably a good idea to switch tactic at that point. As for the caller... at this point I wouldn't be surprised if the caller is just Natsuhi's guilt. Maybe she wished for the kids death a bit more literally like actually asking the servant to kill the baby? The only thing that makes me doubt it is the 'fall' card, but if the phone call is a fantasy scene, there's no reason the card can't be one too.
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Apr 1, 2017 21:37
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I really shouldn't have put off marathoning these threads for so long, I've missed out on a lot of chances for speculation. For the first four games, I really missed my chance on that. That Shannon and/or Kanon, as well as Nanjo, seems to be involved seems to be a correct assumption to me, but the number of people some of the other theories have proposed doesn't sit nearly as well. Now that I'm actually caught up, I'll probably go back over the first four and see what I can draw out of it later on. However, that's less of a priority than the current mysteries... Regarding the epitaph, though QUADRILLION seems an appropriate starting point, I can't think that it describes the whole thing. The way Erika and Battler treat it during Part 10 seems more to me like some sort of path that has to be followed, doing something at each location (gouge the X and kill), which then opens (?) a passageway/shows a signpost of some sort to the area Eva found in part 3. Given the circumstances, I'm relatively certain it has to refer to various places in the mansion, but I'd need a map of the grounds to be certain. If I'm right about this, my guess would be that the "QUADRILLION" places the 'head' somewhere in the vicinity of the chapel, but again I'd need a map to be sure of it. I seem to recall one in one of the updates at one point, so I'll have to look for it later. Regarding the mystery caller, there are two obvious motivations that I can see. I don't think it's a hallucination or other fabrication of Natsuhi's - one would think that it would have happened on the other boards as well if that were the case, and Bern obviously doesn't know about it. It's also something that happened before the two days, and yet grows to eventually affect that period of time - an independent section that still affects the unknown period of time. Lambda being the caller can in no way make it a fake, as it can simply be a representation of her piece moving. That said, two motivations: to torment Natsuhi, and to take her out during the first night, nullifying any possible alibi she could have. So I suppose Natsuhi and her caller can be the most likely to be the possible killers this time around, through motive alone if nothing else. Those who definitely knew about the baby can be assumed to be Kumasawa, Krauss, and almost certainly Genji through proximity to Kinzo alone. Possibly Nanjo for the same reason as Genji, but he's slightly less likely. Kumasawa's female, and if she's the one she needs a partner to assist her with the calls, making her less likely. Krauss was around when a call came, meaning it's unlikely that it's him unless Genji's in on it as well (not impossible, Genji's been shown to be willing to lie for Krauss and family). It could theoretically be one of the kids/younger servants who made the calls, but they'd both have to find out about the whole baby situation in the first place and have a reason to hate Natsuhi for it. That's less likely to be the case than the ones who already knew, so disregarding them for now. Interesting side notes for now: Hideyoshi died in a different way from the rest (reason?), and Krauss and Nanjo aren't shown in the parlor scene.
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Apr 2, 2017 00:30
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Man, it really reads like Natsuhi was blamed for her husband's poo poo sperm, what with multiple doctors being unable to find anything wrong with her... Poor Natsuhi; infertility when you want a kid is stressful enough when you aren't barking up the wrong tree in an attempt to solve it.  Also brings Jessica's sire into question.I'm not sure where I stand on the caller... I could buy it being fantasy if she on some level wanted to be punished for wishing for/"causing" the death of an infant, but it seems strange to have that show up as a thing now of all times? I don't know.
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Apr 2, 2017 07:22
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Wait, did no one consider asking Krauss for a check up? I guess that might be too embarrassing for THE HEIR APPARENT.
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Apr 2, 2017 09:10
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  October 5th, 1986, 7:00 AM  An electronic tone repeatedly rang out through the room... Battler, who had gone to bed late and not managed to get enough sleep, covered his head in his blanket and waited for someone to turn off the alarm. But no matter how much time passed, the electronic tone didn't stop. I see. The point of an alarm clock isn't just to be loud enough to wake you, but to be annoying enough to keep you from wanting to fall back asleep. Heeey, the alarm's going off. Make it stop please... Why do waking-up voices always get this annoyed? Well, it does makes sense. After all, people are still sleepy and in a bad mood. However, there was absolutely no sign that my annoyed voice had caused anyone to turn over in their sleep or crawl out of bed to stop the alarm. Letting out a deep sigh, I stumbled to my feet. With the shutters down on the windows, there was almost no light getting in, and the room was as dim as it had been earlier. Though even if the shutters weren't down, there's no way that this dull weather would let in enough sun to make this a pleasant morning. The cousins were still wrapped up in their beds, sound asleep and taking no notice whatsoever of that beeping. Normally, once any one person gets up, the others tend to automatically follow... Annoyed that this 'law of serial summer camp awakenings' that I'd just made up had been broken, I searched for the source of the sound. I could hear it coming from a wristwatch set on a table. Judging by the style of the watch, it was probably George-aniki's. Anyway, when I randomly pushed a small button on the side of it, the sound stopped. Apparently, it had been set for 7:00 in the morning. Is it already 7:00? Sorry, but I really don't feel like I slept at all... Playing cards were left on the table as though they had stopped mid-game. The game had probably been sevens.  Dammit, I've got this piercing headache. What the hell happened last night? That mountain of gold and the subsequent argument between the relatives... it all feels like a bad dream...  "...So stupid..."Breakfast normally came at 8:00. Now wasn't a bad time to start getting up and getting dressed. Even those adults probably won't argue in front of the cousins. In that case, I'll stay with my cousins all day long. I'm sure they'll be able to separate me from all this annoying talk about the gold and being the successor and all... In fact, I should have done this from the beginning... I felt disgusting, having slept with my clothes on last night, which caused me to get all sweaty. I guess I'll take a shower. I'm sure the others want to too. At this age, it's embarrassing to wake them by shaking their shoulders. If I turn the TV on, everyone will probably wake up. Well, let's at least turn the lights on for now. In this dim light, with the quiet sound of the continuing wind and rain, it really doesn't feel like morning has come yet. I flipped the light switch. And then, that dimly lit morning ended.  BGM: String Trio #600 Million in F Sharp Minor  "This is just too much... How... could anyone get away with something like this...?!!"As they clung to Aniki's corpse, which would never wake up again, Aunt Eva and Uncle Hideyoshi cried.  "...That's enough. Do you think George-kun would like the two of you to see him this way...? Of course not...!" "...Aneki. I know how you feel, but let's have Doctor Nanjo handle this..." "You don't understand!! George was killed! George!! Geoooooooooorge, ugghaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!" "Doctor Nanjo is right. We mustn't keep looking at George in such a state... This is for George's sake! We have to restrain ourselves for now...!"When Aunt Eva tried even harder to cling to that corpse, Dad and Uncle Hideyoshi dragged her away and had a heated debate with her beside the wall... "No, nooooooooooooo!! Geooooooooorge!! Doctor Nanjo! Help him!! If he's lost too much blood, do a blood transfusion!! George and I are the same blood type!! I beg you! Doctor Nanjo!!" "...Eva-san. It pains me to say this, but your blood can't do George-kun any good now..."Doctor Nanjo shook his head slightly, then nodded across to where I stood, giving me a signal. I softly pulled the blanket up... covering George-aniki's corpse.  Of course not... The large amount of blood which had poured out stained the bed a horrible red and black, and even covering him with the blanket couldn't hide the traces left by the blood which had leaked out. After all, there were even large, red-black stains on the blanket, and covering him with it made his corpse look even more gruesome... So I stripped the blanket off of my bed and placed it on top of the first one. But there were only two extra blankets. So if we covered one more of the corpses, we wouldn't be able to cover any more. I feel bad about the ones we can't cover, but for some reason, times like these make me feel like muttering 'don't complain about it being unfair' inside my head... "...Kyrie. Put blankets over all of them. Wouldn't want them to catch cold." "...Sure."Kyrie-san and I covered the other corpses up to their heads with their blankets, just like George-aniki's... So that they wouldn't have to undergo any more shame... with their terrible wounds exposed like this...  Jessica was exactly the same as George-aniki. Though she appeared to be resting quietly in the bed... her neck had been sliced deep and the wound lay open in a brutal way... And Maria was the same. ...Not only Maria. There was one more victim. Lying on the same bed as though they had been sleeping alongside each other... was Aunt Rosa. George-aniki, Jessica, Maria, and Aunt Rosa.  They had probably been like that since last night. I'd returned without noticing anything, gotten in bed, and fallen asleep... All of them had a horizontal cut across their throats. I had been... forced to see all the way... into the depths of those gashes in everyone's throats... At worst, the wound might have been deep enough to stretch halfway through their necks. If you tried to open it up, you'd probably be able to see that the gash reached all the way to the bone. The only wounds were the single gashes on each neck. So if you just covered their necks with your hand, you might be able to persuade yourself that they were merely sleeping. But even so, this frighteningly deep wound... was incredibly... gruesome... There's no such thing as 'clean' or 'dirty' ways of killing. All methods of killing are equally brutal. But even so, this was horribly... brutal... And... there was one more thing which adorned these brutal murders to make them even more unsettling.  It was drawn in a bright red paint which looked like blood and made it look as though some creepy ceremony had taken place in this room, with the four of them offered as human sacrifices... However, that wasn't what we were concerned about. No one has a heart so cold that they could witness the deaths of those close to them... and still worry about some scribbles on the wall...  BGM: Deep Blue Jeer The girl who bragged that she drew more pleasure from the process of exposing the truth rather than the truth itself... and who went so far as to call herself an intellectual rapist, appeared in the hall. When she saw the extraordinarily creepy magic circle in this gruesome room, I heard what was unmistakably a sigh of admiration escape her lips...  "You... don't come in here..." "...I just heard about it in the corridor. It's four people who've passed away, correct? Allow me to express my sincere regrets."On Erika's face... no, that's not it. It was in her eyes. In Erika's eyes, I could see... an indiscreet smile, that was hard to describe. She... found this interesting. She found the outbreak of a crime... interesting... It was like the smile of a kid off to the side of the stage just before her turn to appear in a school play... "...Sorry, Erika-chan. We're busy at the moment. Could you wait in your room?" "...Well, we can't have that. It's the detective's right to investigate the scene." "We're saying that we have no business with you...! Now's the time for outsiders like you to stand back!!" "...'Mysteries in which a suspect who tries to interfere with the investigation turns out to be the culprit are third rate', is how I see things." "Who gives a drat about what you want?!! Get out!! No one needs you here!!" "Erika-chan...! I'm truly sorry, but could you return to your room?! We're busy at the moment!" "Geooooooooooorge, Geooooooooooorge, waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!" "...Stand back. I can't investigate the scene like this." "If anyone needs to do something like that, we'll do it! The police will do it! Like hell you have the right to shame everyone's remains more than they already have been!!" BGM: Smile-less Soiree Those words, which seemed to be utterly ridiculous at first, were words of power which had come from a world on a much higher plane than the one they were in. Battler was thrown back by an unseen power and landed on his butt. Struck silent by this quiet intensity, nobody was able to prevent Erika from entering the room, suffocated by this bizarre atmosphere... "...Don't worry. My goal is not to profane the dignity of the deceased. It's not like I want to peek into something as disgusting as a slit through someone's neck. I want to know something completely different." "In other words, who committed these murders. Doctor Nanjo. And everyone else. Particularly the first one to discover them, Battler-san. There are many things I want to question you about, so I ask for your cooperation." "L, like I said, by what authority are you doing this...?!" Battler couldn't argue against this incomprehensible nonsense. No, he wasn't permitted to argue. It was a restriction... placed on pieces. Erika summoned Doctor Nanjo and heard the details of his preliminary examination of the corpses. Normally, he wouldn't have spoken of that to an outsider so casually. However, for some reason, the atmosphere about the place had begun to make it feel as though nothing should be hidden from Erika...  "...Okay, let's enjoy this first twilight of Lambda's. Four corpses? That's two corpses short. Well, she doesn't necessarily have to see to it that six people are killed, but that's how we've been playing. That girl isn't completely clueless, so she must have killed two more people somewhere."On the wall was a magic circle representing the first twilight, similar to the ones in Beato's games. *giggle*, that girl talks tough, but I wonder just how closely she'll be able to imitate Beato. *giggle*giggle*, ahhahahahahaha...! That Hebrew sure is crappy. It isn't written exactly right.   "I'll bet they wanted to copy Beatrice-sama. Aha, what a crappy magic circle...!" "Are you kidding?! Some human went out of their way to draw it so they could make it look like Beatrice-sama did this...! Anyway, let's report to Beatrice-sama about this!" "Even though we're already up to our eyeballs just protecting Goldsmith's secret... what a pain." "But these murders have no beauty to them at all. It isn't really a closed room, and there's nothing impossible about it. Such pitiful murders aren't worthy of Beatrice-sama at all." "...Furudo Erika... An unexpected crime and an unexpected woman. And the unexpected man from 19 years ago. And if you add on the fact that Battler's already solved the epitaph, this game is completely different than normal. What the heck's going on...?! Let's go!!"  ""Yes, Onee-sama!!"" BGM: HANE The main dish would be herb omelets. Even simple foods could become an invigorating feast under Gohda's skillful hands. He would precook everything beforehand and prepare the food in the dining hall right before everyone's eyes.  "Hmm hmm hmm hmm♪ Pan pan pan pa~n♪"Gohda hummed as he continued his preparations in high spirits. When Shannon, who was helping out, saw Gohda like this, her mood also brightened. She arranged the salad in a neat little pattern and showed it to Gohda.   "Hmm~~, very ni~ce! You really know what you're doing, Shannon-san! Hmm hmm hmm hm~m♪" ""Hmm hmm hmm hm~m♪""The two happy people gave each other a high five. Shannon didn't like Gohda when he was sneaky, but she had no problems at all with him when he was cooking happily. She sometimes even thought it'd be nice if his contract hadn't included any jobs besides cooking. If that had been the case, he wouldn't have had to get in a bad mood doing unnecessary jobs.  "The dining hall is ready. You can carry it in whenever you want." "We're almost good to go, so please get the serving cart ready. Hmm hmm hmmmmm!"Without thinking, even Kumasawa caught Gohda's high spirits. The kitchen had a very nice smell and atmosphere about it, truly refreshing for so early in the morning.  BGM: None Kanon and Genji were in charge of getting many things ready for the morning, such as opening the curtains. However, Kanon was alone today, so it had taken much longer than usual.  "I'm done. Where's Genji-sama?" "He still isn't here. That's odd. I can't imagine he'd sleep in." "Hohoho. I guess even Genji-san sleeps in sometimes." "That's rather careless of him, considering that this is the middle of the family conference. Kanon-san. Could you wake him up for us?" "...Yes." "I wonder what Genji-san's face looks like when he's half asleep. Hohohoho. Let me go with you."Even though Gohda had asked her to get the serving cart ready, Kumasawa plodded off after Kanon, skillfully skipping work. As Kanon muttered about how Gohda was the one who slept in all the time, he headed for the servant waiting room.  "...Last night, I fell asleep while still in the servant room, so I didn't return to the waiting room."Last night, Kanon had dozed off while in the middle of his late night shift, falling asleep in the servant room. Shannon had been kind enough to put a blanket on him, but that had just made it so warm that he fell into an even deeper sleep... So he hadn't returned to his bed in the servant waiting room the previous night. Because of that, he hadn't met Genji even once this morning. There was a knock on the door.  "...Oh my. I wonder if he's still sleeping." "...Pardon me."When he tried to open the door, Kanon noticed something strange on the upper part of the door.  A small strip of duct tape was stuck along the frame of the door, almost as though it was sealing the door shut. Furthermore, there were notches made with scissors along the center of the duct tape, so that if you opened the door only a slight amount, it would be torn apart. Also, written sloppily across the duct tape with a thin pen was what appeared to be someone's signature. It was written in a very intricate and decorative manner, so even if it was a signature, there was no way of telling whose it was.  "It's probably some sort of prank..." "I don't get it, but it's no use worrying about it now. Genji-sama, pardon me."The duct tape tore apart, and he opened the door. It wasn't as though anything happened when it split, so the two quickly forgot about that strange duct tape.  Apparently, Genji was still sleeping...  "Good morning, Genji-sama." "This isn't like you. Ho ho ho. It's mo~rni~ng." "...ah, G, Genji-sama...!" "Eek, wh, what is this, what is this...?!"There was a large, red-black stain on the blanket. Though this was one of the servants' blankets, those were always kept clean. There's no way a stain like this could be there.  BGM: Black Lilliana   "...It's thin. You wouldn't be able to leave a cut this deep without a fairly long blade." "Wh, what's going on? Battler solved the riddle of the epitaph, right? Why are murders occurring?!" "I don't know. In any event, this isn't good. We should report about this to Beatrice-sama and Natsuhi-sama." "Belpha, hurry and report to Luci-nee...!!" "Understood...!" ...Then, this new pair let out screams identical to the first two.   "Is now really the time to be saying that?!! There's no chance they'll be having a quiet and peaceful breakfast on the second day." "...I have a bad feeling about this. Genji might not be the only one. Let's check the entire mansion. Something else might have happened...!" "Yes, Onee-sama!!" BGM: None Even Natsuhi was surprised that she had to wake up. She had thought she'd spent the whole night unable to sleep out of fear that the mysterious man might come in at any moment, but before she knew it, she had fallen asleep... Of course, Natsuhi still didn't feel rested at all. Though she groaned from the dull pain in her head, which hadn't gone away once since last night, she managed to get out of bed...   "...Good morning. It's a horrible morning..." "Don't worry. No one tried to enter this room." "...I see. Thanks for keeping watch all night..."Even so, that didn't mean she had been able to sleep peacefully. The continued ringing of the phone made her headache throb even more strongly... "I think you should probably answer the phone. Afterwards, I have some bad news to report from my sisters." "...Let's leave the bad news for later. I'll answer the phone first."Natsuhi shook her head to wake herself and picked up the receiver. Then, she regretted not listening to Lucifer's bad news first. Because she wanted the first thing she heard about on this horrible morning to be something better than this...  That voice... told her that this horrible morning... this nightmare... would not stop...  "I, I kept my promise. I've been holed up in this room the whole time. Of course, I haven't been on the phone either...!" "But you did pick up the phone just now, didn't you...?" "W, well, ah-" BGM: Fishy Aroma "...How far do you intend to mock me...?"Natsuhi gripped the receiver so hard it creaked... "I wanted you to leave your seat so that I could set up for the party. Thanks to that, everything's ready now. Of course, you're the main guest, Mother." "...Wh, what are you planning to do...?" "That's for you to look forward to. Don't worry, I won't keep you waiting. It's already begun. Oh, that's right, wait a sec. There's someone I want you to hear." "...Huh?"There was the sound of the receiver being jolted around. The phone was apparently being passed to someone else, but there was a clunking, clattering noise, as though it was taking a lot of effort to hand the receiver over... Who in the world could he be giving the phone to? ...No matter who... this man gives the phone to... that can't be good news for me...  BGM: Stupefaction "Huh?! D, dear?! Is that you?!" "Gghgghghghghgh, mwoooohh...!! Untie it, untie iiiit!!"It was, without a doubt, the voice of her husband. However, he didn't respond to Natsuhi's voice. Perhaps he was bound somewhere in the darkness. Krauss, not realizing that Natsuhi was on the other end of the phone, repeatedly demanded that he be untied... "...Your husband is here. His eyes and ears are covered, so he can't talk, but I think you can tell that he's in perfect health." "Wh, what are you after...?!! Let my husband go!" "I'll let him go tomorrow. If you'll keep two promises, that is." "What are they...?!" "One is that you keep it a secret that I'm taking care of your husband. There will probably be a fuss when they're unable to find Krauss anywhere in the mansion. But you know nothing, so you will say nothing. Understand?" "I, I understand...! What's your other condition?!" "...It's just a little game. At 1:00 today, you will go into the foremost guest room on the first floor of the mansion and hide in the closet." "A guest room...? Why should I go into a closet...?!" "It's just a little hide-and-seek. If you can hide there for an hour without anyone finding you, you win. If someone does find you, you lose." "And if I lose, what happens...?!" "Nothing in particular. Isn't that what playing is all about? If you play along with this hide-and-seek, I'll release your husband tomorrow." "W, will you really... keep that promise, I wonder...?" "Of course. Make sure you do too, Mother. If you break our promise, I'll know right away." "...Madam, are you there? Good morning...!" "It's Gohda and Kanon! Madam, please wake up...!"The voices coming from across the door were Kanon's and Gohda's. The knock had been wild, and the voices a little shrill. It seemed that something strange had happened... and that they were agitated. "...What is it? Did something happen?" "I, It's nothing. It looks like the servants have arrived. I'm hanging up." "Sure. I've said everything I wanted to. So, don't break our promise." "...I understand. A, and you don't break our promise either...!" "You've got it wrong." BGM: Organ Short #600 Million in C Minor "...Ack..." "I'll be watching you all day today, Mother. *giggle*giggle*, ahahahaha, ohohohohoho!"*clank*! Lambdadelta slammed the receiver down on the antique phone. Then the phone exploded into bits and changed into a golden splash, became a group of gold butterflies, and disappeared. 
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Apr 2, 2017 14:56
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The profiles page has been updated.
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Apr 2, 2017 15:02
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That feels like cheating... But yeah, I guess that means we can be pretty sure Natsuhi isn't the killer. And that Bern's somewhat less of the great detective she sells herself as.
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Apr 2, 2017 15:34
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CottonWolf posted:That feels like cheating... But yeah, I guess that means we can be pretty sure Natsuhi isn't the killer. And that Bern's somewhat less of the great detective she sells herself as. It's theoretically possible, but I'd bet against it currently. I'm also not sure if Erika's actually expressing the answer which the two witches are thinking is sealing off Lambda's moves - there's a possibility that accusing Natsuki is a feint to draw out other information.
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Apr 2, 2017 19:07
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I'm kinda curious how the voice acting of that phone call in this update went along, mostly to see if there's a transition to Lambadelta's voice or just stays in
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Apr 2, 2017 19:34
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It stays in the Mysterious Man's voice until she hangs up. Is there demand for a video?
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Apr 2, 2017 19:41
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Actually from playing the start of this episode myself. The voices changes right before she hangs up. To sounding more like how its described. Or was that the previous time. I can't remember.
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Apr 2, 2017 19:45
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Of course Bern isn't a good detective, it took the original a hundred years of time loops to finally figure out why she kept on dying.
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Apr 2, 2017 23:07
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Bern is the person who gets banned from stream chats for complaining about people being imperfect at playing Demon's Souls blind, then plays with a guide and 3 wikis open.
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Apr 2, 2017 23:45
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What a strange update. So many differences from what we've been seeing that I don't know where to start. I guess it's mostly the tone of the update? Before it felt like the mystical realm was observing, with the "pieces" acting in ways that weren't too strange for people to do. Even if Beatrice claimed she was moving them, we at least didn't see it. Now have witches self-inserting, shouting red text at people, kidnapping, and making phone calls? It's fan fiction gone mad. I've noticed that the first batch of killings has always been targeted at taking out a particular group, except for one member. Mostly, all but one of Kinzo's children die (making the survivor a wonderful suspect). In, I think, the third arc, it was the servants who were wiped out. Now we've lost the cousins, again all but one. It's also the first time where the murders were in more than one place. We also have the demon stakes running around again. What? Why? Since they talk with Natsuhi, under the rules that seemed to be formed, she would be the one imagining them. But where did that come from? And what's more, the stakes have no idea what's going on either. Before they were always on the inside. Was "Beatrice" behind the first four arcs, but not involved in this one? Now I want Gohda to make me an omelet.
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Apr 3, 2017 00:44
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So Krauss is almost certainly actually dead, unless they're going to count Kinzo towards the epitaph or they aren't following the epitaph this time. All the Natsuhi scenes are "explanations" for why she looks so guilty, but i think that either she actually is guilty or in reality there are different reasons why she appears guilty.
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Apr 3, 2017 01:39
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Qrr posted:So Krauss is almost certainly actually dead, unless they're going to count Kinzo towards the epitaph or they aren't following the epitaph this time. All the Natsuhi scenes are "explanations" for why she looks so guilty, but i think that either she actually is guilty or in reality there are different reasons why she appears guilty. From the sample we got at the beginning, Hideyoshi gets backstabbed with a stake at some point after this. I was wondering what was up with his different method of death, but a different time of death certainly explains that.
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Apr 3, 2017 04:08
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BurningStone posted:Now I want Gohda to make me an omelet. Don't we all, BurningStone? Don't we all? In regards to caller theory, I'm still going with Jessica being involved with it somehow even if she is now dead (according to Battler). Maybe the rest of the phone calls are Natsuhi's delusions. Also, no, who would kidnap Krauss? Give him back, you jerk(s)! I know it's ridiculously easy to trick him to fall for whatever you say, but still! ...They probably took Krauss by telling him that the candy bar in the steel cage was his if he went inside.
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Apr 3, 2017 05:10
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Cyouni posted:From the sample we got at the beginning, Hideyoshi gets backstabbed with a stake at some point after this. I was wondering what was up with his different method of death, but a different time of death certainly explains that. A stake, huh. Interesting, since the stake girls had no idea what was going on. And they appeared to be working for Natsuhi.....
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Apr 3, 2017 05:50
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Considering the current shape of the board again, I think I can see why Ronove commented on there being no 'love'. In the first four games, it followed the epitaph - theoretically for the reason of getting Battler to see the VIP room at the end of the tunnel, and in some way reminding him of his 'sin'. However, in this game that objective seems to have been abandoned. We've got five murders, all in the most simple fashion, with the sixth (Hideyoshi) being apparently an afterthought with a Stake. There's no locked rooms, no tricks, no alibis even, and not to mention this: ProfessorProf posted:When he tried to open the door, Kanon noticed something strange on the upper part of the door. I can't read the first bit, but that name underneath definitely reads Frederica Bernkastel. Comparing it to the name underneath, my best guess is G. Peueler (Peuder?), which means absolutely nothing to me. The first letter of whatever that second word is doesn't match the F of Frederica, and the 'el' of Bernkastel to some degree matches up with the latter half. But anyways, continuing on, Fernkastel forcing herself in as the detective with the red deforms the shape of the board even more, making it unrecognisable from what it originally was. None of this really works to "show the murders to someone", and really just feels like Bern and Lambda moving their pieces for entertainment, rather than with a purpose. I don't feel like the Beatrice person/group is acting in this game, for whatever reason. Is it because Battler's already seen the gold VIP room, eliminating what may have been the primary motive? Beatrice doesn't gain directly from the epitaph being solved, but solving the riddle was the condition set for the murders to stop. Logically, revealing the path, or the room the gold is in, is therefore the goal, and we know that Battler's the target from the question posed in the fourth game, as well as the fact he's been left alive through all of this. To answer that, actually finding the path the riddle defines is likely required. My best guess as to the identity of the mystery caller is Krauss, with Genji's assistance. His body hasn't been found as of the sample we got earlier, and he's one of those that would have the means to accomplish it. He knows about the baby from 19 years before, and it'd be child's play to stage the calls we've seen so far. The second call could easily be applied through both actual knowledge and magician's choice. Third one is even easier, he simply needs to remove whatever's disguising his voice and it'd be "Krauss, kidnapped". As for motive, that would be difficult to define at this point. Perhaps he only found out about the baby's death recently (as it's implied he didn't know before) and that's the cause for some reason.
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Apr 3, 2017 06:45
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While it helps that I already know what that is, I'd never actually looked closely at that picture and noticed it said Frederika Bernkastel on the bottom of the strip of tape. Looking at it a bit more, the top part is perfectly legible as well. It reads: E. Furudo That seriously is legible though, so I guess Kanon just can't read english cursive? Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Apr 3, 2017 |
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Apr 3, 2017 07:22
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Lord Koth posted:While it helps that I already know what that is, I'd never actually looked closely at that picture and noticed it said Frederika Bernkastel on the bottom of the strip of tape. Looking at it a bit more, the top part is perfectly legible as well. I am forced to conclude that I am an idiot and/or blind.
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Apr 3, 2017 07:57
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I failed to read the upper part too, so that makes two of us.
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Apr 3, 2017 10:27
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  BGM: Totem Blume "It's impossible to make use of the external li~ne! Looks like you can use the internal line! It's impossible to use a boat inside the typhoon! I guess the closed circle is complete now! Congrats, you're now a full detective, Bern!"When the police intervene, they sometimes steal some of the detective's authority. However, with the construction of the closed circle, the existence of police had been denied for all eternity. From now on, the authority of the detective piece would be totally guaranteed.  "Yeah, yeah, thanks a bunch. Then I guess it's time to get this game started."Erika, you're the main character. Now, begin...!   "Y, yes. And it was so... horrible...!" "It was exactly the same as the four in the guesthouse... The neck... was sliced open... with a terribly sharp blade..." "...T, to think that even though I had the midnight shift, I didn't notice anyone suspicious..." "Don't blame yourself. If you'd bumped into the culprit, you might be the one dead right now." "On top of that, the phones aren't even connecting...! I doubt any boats will come in this weather. This is serious...!" "...And that means it's very likely that the culprit is still nearby." "E, eeeeeeeeeeeeekkkk...! Then what? Does that mean we'll be trapped here with a murderer until the typhoon passes and the boat comes...?!" "...I, it'll be alright. If we all stay together like this, even the culprit won't be able to lay a finger on us...!" "E, even Jessica... I can't believe it..." "W, we won't let ourselves be killed...!! I'll avenge George!! I won't let them get away! No matter who the culprit is or what their reason was, I won't let the one who killed George get away!! I'll kill them, I'll kill them!! Waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh...!!" "...We've been calling him for a while, but he hasn't answered..." "Could the receiver be off the hook...?" "No, we could hear it ringing. There's no way he didn't hear it..." "..." "Wh, what does it mean...? You don't think... Uncle Krauss too...?!" "...Thought so. I hate to say it at a time like this, but there were four in the guesthouse plus Genji to make five. I figured there would be one more." "Why?! How could you know that?! Are you the culprit?! Did you kill George?!" "S, stop it, Eva-san...! Now is not the time...!"Eva got agitated and grabbed at Kyrie. Nanjo stepped in between them, and it grew into a bit of a scuffle... Watching this, Erika smiled condescendingly and shrugged. "Probably. It's natural that you'd guess there were six victims after seeing the crime scene in the guesthouse. There were only four corpses, so it'd make you wonder who the other two were." "How could you know such a thing?!! You killed them?! You killed Geoooooorge!!" "Qu, quit it, Eva! Erika-chan, Kyrie-san...! How can you know that?! Can't you think before you talk...?!" "...It's a simple connection to make. The scribble drawn at the scene of the crime in the guesthouse was a magic circle. I just thought of things that are connected to both magic and murders." "I see... the epitaph..." "...I see... It's... the first twilight." "Huh? Huh? What's going on...?!" "W, well, I don't have a clue either...!!" "...Is that how it is...? That drat witch..." "So is this really... Beatrice-sama's doing...?" "Why do you all keep talking as if you know something?!! I don't have a clue!! Someone, explain!!" "I told you, Eva...! Calm down a bit...!!" "..." "...That's how it is. Since I saw the magic circle at that crime scene. I imagined this might be a plotline murder following the epitaph's first twilight, which would mean there are six victims."  "...So, Uncle Krauss was also... killed...?" "We can't be sure of that. Krauss-san isn't the only person who hasn't come here, right? There's one more." "...ah-"For just an instant, Natsuhi's brow furrowed... So, she hadn't been able to avoid the topic of the study after all...  "You don't mean, Dad?! Hey, someone must have contacted the study, right?!" "O, of course we called and even knocked on the door... But, umm, there was no answer..." "F, Father is immersing himself in his research... H, he sometimes leaves the receiver off the hook because he doesn't want to be called and even ignores knocking...!" "...B, but the phone was ringing..." "A, anyway...! Let's first check to see that my husband's alright!! Let's go to his room!!"Natsuhi stood up in a flurry and dashed out into the corridor. Rudolf and the others immediately chased after her, telling her to wait. "...Come on, let's all go together. In both third-rate mystery and third-rate horror, people who act alone tend to die first." "...Yeah, this game is just the same. Beato really is third-rate. *giggle*giggle*giggle*...!"Oh, but in third-rate disaster movies and third-rate action movies, people who act alone do survive, right? Weird. *giggle*giggle*!  BGM: Organ Short #600 Million in C Minor  "It might be the work of this man from 19 years ago, who is thought to be Lady Lambdadelta's piece. Ah yes, that can't be true." "...In the games up until now, Beato has already stated that Kinzo has vanished, meaning that no more than 17 people exist and no 18th person exists. Now that Erika has been added, it's been stated that no 19th person exists. There's no room for this man from 19 years ago to appear on the island." "Then, the man from 19 years ago is disguised as one of the existing humans, or else..." "*cackle*cackle*! Even if a 19th person isn't permitted by the red, slipping in a 19th person is no trouble for me, no trouble for witches...! Now it's getting interesting. Why don't we watch this a little longer?" "Still, those two witches... they've finally started doing whatever they like with my game board...!" "...Didn't you know that would happen when you invited them?" "Hmph. As a witch, I have the same dislike for boredom as they do. Even the unexpected brings the kind of joy a witch expects." "Very well, bring it on...!" "It's great that you're so eager, but things have taken a nasty turn. Get it?" "...Indeed. Perhaps this isn't the best time to wait and see what happens next." "I know that. At this rate, Kinzo's existence will become a problem once again. And the barrier around the study won't last long." "That isn't all. Things are going to get even worse. See? Move one, move two. Move three. Cornered, Natsuhi."Gaap whispered something into Beato's ear. Beato's mouth... slowly widened into a grin.   "Natsuhi is the king. She can't move far, but we cannot allow her to be taken! Let's take the initiative. If we slip up here, Natsuhi will be cornered...! Gaap, can I count on you?!" "Of course! I'll blow a hole through closed room tricks, alibis, and mysteries alike. Leave it to me. I'll deal with it."Gaap was swallowed up, along with the chair she sat in, into a pitch black hole which opened on the floor and disappeared. Then, a hole opened on the ceiling and spat just the chair back out, returning the place to the way it had been... "...Things are becoming troublesome." "Heh, heheheheheheheh. I see. So, against Lady Lambdadelta, even I am nothing more than a mere piece. So in the early game, I must worry more about expansion than losing or taking pieces." "...*cackle*cackle*! I'm just no match for that person! I won't let her do that. Natsuhi is the final master I will serve! Know that this is a piece you'll never be allowed to take as long as she has a contract with me, Beatrice!!" BGM: Deep Blue Jeer "But there was no corpse." "Nope." "Then he isn't dead." "Maybe not. Eheheheheheheheh...!!" "Judging by this blood-stained bed... I don't like to think about it, but we should probably assume that he was killed and had his neck cut open, just like the people in the guesthouse..." "...Probably... Judging by the amount of blood lost, it's hard to imagine that he's alright..." "B, but... Where did Krauss-sama go...?"Large amounts of blood stained the top of the bed, but there were no similar marks on the floor of the room. Whether Krauss had been seriously wounded and wandered off somewhere... or killed and carried somewhere, they had no clue where this 'somewhere' was.  "..."...Natsuhi knew. Though Krauss had been sounding far from his best over the phone, he at least hadn't sounded like he was on the brink of death. In other words, these blood stains had to be a setup. That might not even be blood... ...However, just what was that man thinking? What's this supposed to be...?!   "...Was Krauss nii-san in the habit of locking his door? We just came in without unlocking it." "...Yes, Krauss-sama did have a habit of locking up." "A, at this house, Madam has ordered that all non-public areas be locked." "How many keys can unlock Uncle Krauss's room?" "In addition to the one key Krauss-sama held, the master keys..." "...How boring. In other words, no closed room murders have existed or will exist in this mansion. Sheesh. This is getting to be a pretty boring mystery."Erika laughed off this murder in disappointment, as though it was something she was watching on TV. I can't understand it. Why is 'her world' so different from ours? It's almost like she's in a separate dimension from us... "...W, was Jessica also... like this, in a bed?" "..." "...Yes, that's right. Just like George, her neck... was cut..." "...Jessica... Let me be with Jessica... I haven't even seen Jessica's face yet...! Jessica, Jessicaaaaaaaa!!" "W, wait up, Natsuhi-san...!!" "The culprit might still be hiding nearby! It would be dangerous to let her be alone..."Natsuhi flew out of the room and dashed towards the guesthouse this time. It was only natural. Natsuhi still hadn't even seen Jessica's dying face. Everyone probably thought that... Of course, even Natsuhi was half thinking that. The other half... was her desire to shift everyone else's attention away from the study. Strange crimes had occurred, the gold had been discovered, and some relatives had even recommended Battler to be the next head. Even in these twisted circumstances, she had to protect Kinzo's secret. ...Aahh, if my head... is going to be wracked by this suffering anyway... Please just let my head explode right now. That way, I won't have to suffer any longer... "So, everyone. For Natsuhi-san's sake, let's return to the guesthouse for the time being. Though it's not as though seeing their dead faces is going to lead to any developments." "...Do you even have a heart?" Just seeing her daughter's dying face wouldn't bring Jessica back to life, nor would it heal Natsuhi's anguish. On the contrary, she would probably wail, wasting a considerable amount of time before being able to think properly again. This probably sums up Erika's screwed up argument... ...Just seeing their dying faces won't lead to any developments...?  BGM: None  Natsuhi flew into the cousins' room on the second floor of the guesthouse, and was struck dumb by the blood-stained beds and the eerie magic circle which looked like it might have been drawn with the victims' blood... "...Where is Jessica...? Where is Jessica...?! Jessicaaa!!" "In that... bed..." "Bed? Where?!" "Huh? George...? Wh, where is he...?!" BGM: Dead Angle  "...This room was locked tight when we left. We can now be certain that the culprit has a master key. Once again, my reasoning was correct." "Who cares about that...?! Where did they go...? Wh, where did everyone's corpses go...?!"  "Hey, look, look, it's magic, ri~ght? That Gaap who's with Beato hid the corpses somewhere with magic...!" "...All of us moved together. So you're trying to say that everyone had alibis?" "Your reasoning goes like this, right? The four of them weren't actually dead, they were just playing dead. Then, when no one else was around, they hid somewhere. Am I right?" "You don't intend to proclaim any of their deaths in red now, do you?" "Of course I won't. Unlike that dolt Beato, I don't give red out for free!" "In that case, I'll be glad to use the blue truth. I can think of many ways to work around something of this level." "*giggle*. Sure, go ahe~ad! Blue truth time!" "Ahhaha! Even if you've been shown their gaping wounds, you're still trying that one on principle as long as there's no red, right?! But don't get your hopes up. I'm not giving you a freebie red truth! After all, I just have to deny it all at once at the end of the game, at 24:00 on October 5th!" "Ah, the witch's side has such a big advantage! It'd all be over now if that stupid Battler was my opponent, but you aren't like that, right, Bern?!" "Of course. Anyone could have thought of that silly move. I have more. Second one. Krauss carried the corpses off and hid them. You've acted it out so that it looks like you've kidnapped Krauss and locked him up somewhere, but he might actually be free. Krauss has no alibi. Krauss hid their corpses." "Yeah, that's right. It's not like I proclaimed that Krauss was being confined with the red truth. *giggle*giggle*! You know how they say you've got to confuse your friends before you can confuse your enemies! So he lied to Natsuhi, making it seem like he'd been captured! Eheheheheheheh!! Any others?!" "Third one. The corpses were different people in the first place. They were substitute corpses just like the victims. George and the others were hiding from the beginning, and later cleared up those substitute corpses. These corpses were dead from the very beginning, so they don't count towards the number of people on the island." "Ahhahhahhahahahahahahahaha!! That's messed up!! So even though all those people gathered around and saw their dead faces, none of them realized that they were substitute corpses?" "Since you haven't used the red truth, there's a possibility that everyone misidentified all of the corpses. Though if you feel like repeating 'no one would misidentify a person', I'll withdraw that claim immediately, okay...?" "No wa~y♪ I'm not falling for that provocation! The red truth is only useful if you use it with flash, right? I'll take a single truth out of a large pile of blue and smash it with the red! Then, the rest of the blue truths will be swallowed up by darkness before you can find out whether they were right or wrong!" "That darkness is the world of witches! You won't be given any truth at all! Ehheheheheheheheheh!!" Looks like she understands this darkness of magic even better than the true Game Master, Beato. And apparently, Gaap also understood that well. That move of hiding the corpses. It was pretty effective for both Lambda and Beato. In any event, I've thought up a full three theories about the disappearing corpses. Three blue wedges for a single riddle. That doesn't mean she can just deny one of those three. Unless she eliminates all three wedges, this riddle has been defeated. That is the ironclad rule of witch hunting. A single wedge isn't nearly enough. Only vampires die from a single stake. Compared to witches, vampires are weak. True witches won't die unless you stab them all over with stakes, right? It's the same with assassins, isn't it? Assassins only kill their targets with a single perfect shot in Japanese manga. Real assassins will empty out an entire clip of bullets. That's how you do things, right? Of course, it's the same for me. But it's this girl we're talking about, so she might slice it all in two with a single swipe of the red. By simply letting off a few quick lines confirming their deaths and Krauss's innocence with the red, she can remove all three of my wedges. Well, that's okay. When the red truth does come out, I just need to follow along with it and stab her full of blue wedges again. ...*giggle*giggle*. This is how a game of witches plays out. *giggle*, ah, it's so fun...! Battler's sluggish battles always pissed me off, so I'm loving this...!! Yeah, I understand, Lambda. This first twilight is just the beginning of the beginning. It's just a skirmish, right...? *giggle*...Wouldn't have it any other way... I'll make you lose pathetically and cry out in regret as you crawl and scratch at the floor! I've almost forgotten the pleasure of grabbing that cute hair of yours and wiping the floor with it as I roll around laughing...!!  In the ceiling of this cramped room, a pitch black hole appeared, captivating legs sprouted out... and Gaap floated downwards.  "Please disappear from this place so that you may serve Natsuhi, the final head of the Ushiromiya family, even after death."Gaap stripped off the blanket as she said this to Genji, who was sleeping peacefully... Then she stared at the deep wound in his neck...  BGM: At Death's Door It goes without saying, but witches are capable of summoning beings with a strength proportional to their own talent. The great Lady Lambdadelta called that being here as a trump card 19th person. Even optimistically speaking, this is on par with Ronove and me... A pitch black hole opened on the bed, and Genji disappeared as though the bed had swallowed him up. Just like the four in the guesthouse, Genji's corpse was also hidden in some unknown place... It was a place that no one could find, located within neither this world nor the next... No longer would anyone be able to find their corpses. No longer would anyone be able to confirm their deaths. She carried Genji's corpse to this place of endless silence, where it would never be disturbed...   "...The darkness inside of cat boxes which will never be opened is the place where we demons and witches reside...! You were a bit too slow, Miss Great Detective. Heheheheh..."Gaap licked her lips and gulped...  "...I wonder why Gaap-sama is going around hiding corpses." "I don't know. But Gaap-sama is pretty cool. She's just so... awesome." "Don't be stupid, what happened to standing guard?! The humans are returning from the guesthouse!! Gaap-sama...!" "Yes, let's disperse. This should be enough to give Natsuhi a way out..."Gaap jumped into a pitch black hole which had opened near her feet. Mammon said 'I'm going in too!' and jumped in, followed by Asmo, who said 'Me too, me too!' and hopped in, giggling. As Satan hesitated over what to do, the hole closed. "A, and you call yourselves members of the Seven Sisters of Purgatory... h, how childish. So stupid...!"Satan went bright red and got angry all by herself, then turned into gold butterflies and disappeared...  BGM: Organ Short #200 Million in C Minor "Well done. However, the next part is tricky." "They will probably be somewhat surprised at the disappearance of Genji's corpse, but their interest will most likely swing back to Kinzo's study after that." "...There are two keys to the study. It's fortunate that Natsuhi is in possession of both. If she had left one with Genji, it would probably have fallen into Lady Lambdadelta's hands by now." "It seems that Lady Lambdadelta has no intention of hiding Kinzo's death. Apparently, she plans to fight while ignoring the moat, towers, and ramparts that you have created." "Heh, heheheh. This has become a strange triangular confrontation. We are all each other's enemies, but we sometimes join forces without notice. In a three-way fight, just when you think it's two against one, it suddenly becomes one against two." "...That's what it's like. The Chinese battle royal! Don't you think it's like that 'Records of the Three Kingdoms' thing?" "Oh, the Longzhong Plan. That's quite a sophisticated analogy to hear coming from you, pu ku ku...!" "There were three empires in Records of the Three Kingdoms, weren't there? Wei, Wu, and Shu, right? That sounds just like us. So, which empire won out in the end?"  "Hoh. I didn't know that. I thought one of the three empires won. Did the Wei have an overwhelming advantage...?" "They had the position of emperor stolen from them, and their empire was subjugated and destroyed."...The Sima clan, a noble family that Cao Cao invited in as advisors, eventually gained central control in a power struggle and took over the country.  "...So, they were invited in as advisors, and they seized control." "...*cackle*, very interesting. That Lady Lambdadelta...! *cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*cackle*!!" "Pardon me. The humans have confirmed the disappearance of Genji's corpse in the servant waiting room. They have started moving towards Lord Goldsmith's study." "Riiche. They're coming." "Hmph, let them come. The humans... and the Witches of Certainty and Miracles..."If this is a three way fight with humans and witches... then what should we be called...? If the thing we're protecting for the time being... is Kinzo's phantom...  
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Apr 3, 2017 14:41
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So in Three Kingdoms metaphor land, would Battler be the one who wins in the end? There aren't really any other candidates for a fourth party. Maria I guess, but shes a very inconsistent witch. Also, Berns blue text does seem like it covers most of the possibilities for the corpses vanishing. Though the third one seems very reminiscent of small bombs because people saw the corpses up close. Except maybe Genji - he's the separate corpse so he's more likely to be odd in some way.
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Apr 3, 2017 23:12
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Qrr posted:So in Three Kingdoms metaphor land, would Battler be the one who wins in the end? There aren't really any other candidates for a fourth party. Maria I guess, but shes a very inconsistent witch. Erika our new eye piece never bothered to look at the corpses. So fake corpses or them not being dead could be the answer. Also Erika is still being an arrogant piece of poo poo. Arrogance is probably the trait I despise most in characters.
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Apr 3, 2017 23:39
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Not all of the victims had to have faked their deaths; even one would be enough to clean up the others. Battler didn't examine all of them, so that's okay. Although I guess Erika didn't really examine ANY of them, which is more relevant right now since she's the detective. (She specifically said she wasn't going to look through slits in anyone's neck.) So anyone or everyone could still be alive. I guess a better question would be WHY they would do this. Maybe it's a scheme to reveal Kinzo? Krauss could have been genuinely kidnapped by someone, while everyone else pretended to be dead to freak Natsuhi out and get her to admit that Kinzo's still alive. The tape is clearly there to restrict who had access to the room when. Did Erika run across the murder scene and just seal it up for later? That'd be super weird, but, well. ProfessorProf posted:
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Apr 3, 2017 23:43
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idonotlikepeas posted:Not all of the victims had to have faked their deaths; even one would be enough to clean up the others. Battler didn't examine all of them, so that's okay. Although I guess Erika didn't really examine ANY of them, which is more relevant right now since she's the detective. (She specifically said she wasn't going to look through slits in anyone's neck.) So anyone or everyone could still be alive. I guess a better question would be WHY they would do this. Maybe it's a scheme to reveal Kinzo? Krauss could have been genuinely kidnapped by someone, while everyone else pretended to be dead to freak Natsuhi out and get her to admit that Kinzo's still alive. Well, considering that the only other time the epitaph was solved, the murders continued, presumably the reasoning is the same as then. I've been working on the logic that "Beatrice" has the same motivation across the game boards, even if I don't know what it is yet. But it really seems like the whole solve the epitaph to stop the killing thing is a red herring. Unless there really were two killers in episode three, and the motivation switched from whatever "Beatrice's" goals are to greed and the second killer was killing for the gold. I mean, it's possible that Beatrice's goal in every game has been to reveal that Kinzo was dead, but why? This being about inheritance seems a bit prosaic, when we know that she doesn't care about the gold at all. The defiling of his memory? But that doesn't really jive with trying to show Battler something. We know the murders are unimportant to her, which means they must serve an illustrative purpose. And we know they they're not there to illustrate fear. I'm guess they're meant to be a motive force to drive Battler into a position where he can remember whatever the hell it is that he can't remember, but I still have no real ideas as to what that might be, or why it would require killing (and/or solving the epitaph) to achieve.
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Apr 4, 2017 00:31
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Bernkastel's blue truth seems to cover all the scenarios I can think of, so not much to say on that. However, if we hold the profiles to be the truth, then that eliminates her first blue truth - "the wound was deep enough that anyone could easily confirm [their] death with absolute certainty". The third is a little too much along the lines of Tiny Bombs for my taste, but I suppose it does eliminate the possibility of substitute bodies of any sort. Thus, the second is my preferred theory for now. It's still possible for Natsuhi to have committed the murders and Krauss to have cleaned them up later, which would align with the preview we had. Motive still unclear right now, though if the bodies are found in Kinzo's study (as it appears may happen right now), it might be possible to create the illusion that "Kinzo murdered everybody and vanished". Though it would look suspicious for Krauss to not be in that pile too, I guess. Still, from how Bern and Lambda discussed it early on, the motivation isn't going to be the same as Beatrice's. What's more interesting is how everyone's moving around as a group right now, which wouldn't leave that much of an opportunity later for Hideyoshi to be stake-stabbed. idonotlikepeas posted:The tape is clearly there to restrict who had access to the room when. Did Erika run across the murder scene and just seal it up for later? That'd be super weird, but, well. Assuming Erika was the one to seal the room, it would presumably have been to prevent possible tampering. On that note, if she actually did find the room first, then she would also have likely been able to conduct an investigation and confirm Genji's death. CottonWolf posted:Well, considering that the only other time the epitaph was solved, the murders continued, presumably the reasoning is the same as then. I've been working on the logic that "Beatrice" has the same motivation across the game boards, even if I don't know what it is yet. But it really seems like the whole solve the epitaph to stop the killing thing is a red herring. Unless there really were two killers in episode three, and the motivation switched from whatever "Beatrice's" goals are to greed and the second killer was killing for the gold. I mean, it's possible that Beatrice's goal in every game has been to reveal that Kinzo was dead, but why? This being about inheritance seems a bit prosaic, when we know that she doesn't care about the gold at all. The defiling of his memory? But that doesn't really jive with trying to show Battler something. Assuming that logic is true, the sticking point in episode 3 is that the epitaph being solved was never announced. The only two that knew it had been solved were Rosa and Eva. So if the point were to show Battler something about the epitaph, then that was never fulfilled in that game. My current play assumption is that Battler must follow the epitaph path to the end and see the Golden Land for Beatrice's objective to be fulfilled. An interesting thing I noticed is that if the guess in the previous thread about Shannon/Battler being in love six years ago was true, it might put a different spin on the epitaph's rewards. Epitaph posted:One shall be, all the gold from the Golden Land. The second is a little odd, but my guess is that if meta-Battler solves it, the murders don't occur in the first place, and result in "the resurrection of the souls" from their future-dead states. The third is the one I'm mainly referring to here. It's assumed that the "resurrection of the lost love" is Kinzo-Beatrice, but what if it refers to Battler and somebody instead? Fourth line presumably refers to how if the epitaph is solved, the need for Beatrice is over, and thus the witch is put to sleep for all time.
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Apr 4, 2017 01:00
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Cyouni posted:My current play assumption is that Battler must follow the epitaph path to the end and see the Golden Land for Beatrice's objective to be fulfilled. But she has nothing to gain from having someone solve the epitaph. Having an "objective fulfilled" sounds like something to gain to me.
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Apr 4, 2017 02:29
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Cyouni posted:Assuming Erika was the one to seal the room, it would presumably have been to prevent possible tampering. On that note, if she actually did find the room first, then she would also have likely been able to conduct an investigation and confirm Genji's death. On the other hand, Bernkastel is the one pretending to follow the rules of a detective novel, and having the detective find and investigate a crime scene offscreen sounds like a cardinal sin for that genre to me.
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Apr 4, 2017 03:33
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tiistai posted:But she has nothing to gain from having someone solve the epitaph. Having an "objective fulfilled" sounds like something to gain to me. Ugh, the specific way that's phrased seems to block even indirect circumstantial gain. What exactly was the red truth relating to that again? Beato has nothing to gain from having someone solve the epitaph. Regardless of whether the epitaph is solved or not, Beato has nothing to gain. The gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make you find it for her or to snatch it away herself. Battler-kun isn't the culprit. Battler-kun didn't kill anyone. This can be said of all games. Her goal is not to make someone experience fear. And it isn't to have revenge on someone either. Beato never committed murder for the sake of pleasure. Theoretically, that, as Battler says, implies that the riddle is immaterial, but that's never actually stated by Virgilia (she even says that'd be taking it to its extreme). That also seems to eliminate everything related to the path the epitaph carves out and the room at the end as well, given those are part of the epitaph's secret. However, that may not necessarily exclude that area as a possibility. Beato implies that the previous Battler of six years ago and the current one are not the same person, and that the 'sin' would be something known by the previous one. Perhaps the epitaph's mention is intended to serve more as a reminder to six-years-previous-Battler, with something it points out being the reminder it's trying to make. That seems to bypass the red yet still retain any significance the epitaph may hold. Qrr posted:On the other hand, Bernkastel is the one pretending to follow the rules of a detective novel, and having the detective find and investigate a crime scene offscreen sounds like a cardinal sin for that genre to me. Bernkastel seems to be primarily adhering to Knox's commandments, where one is "The detective is bound to declare any clues which he may discover." The most likely counterpoint is "If no clues are discovered, then they do not have to be declared." Now, what any purpose of taping the door could be, I don't know, but it seems more likely for Erika to have left the tape (especially in that manner) than the murderer. Otherwise the tape really doesn't serve any purpose - it doesn't create a locked room, and it seems really odd to address a tape-note to someone who arrived unannounced on the previous night, even accounting for Lambdadelta's interference.
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Apr 4, 2017 05:11
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At the risk of being pedantic, how are we defining "gain"? Is our definition the same as Bern's or the red text's? Because I could easily see her thinking "well, if anyone really solves the epitaph, Beato will reach closure on her horrible life and feel free to stop playing games... like a boring rear end in a top hat! Either she'll be bored forever, or she'll die! Beato definitely isn't gaining anything from that!" I guess what I mean is "Beatrice might not gain anything, but she certainly could lose something unwanted."
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Apr 4, 2017 06:30
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Poltergrift posted:At the risk of being pedantic, how are we defining "gain"? Is our definition the same as Bern's or the red text's? Virgilia gave that red, so basically the question here is if you trust her.
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Apr 4, 2017 09:43
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Couple more posts to new page.
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Apr 4, 2017 13:16
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MonsterEnvy posted:Erika our new eye piece never bothered to look at the corpses. So fake corpses or them not being dead could be the answer. You know, that's right, isn't it... "Detective authority" never really came up in the previousa games with Barttler, and we all juyst kind of assumed thet since he was the one challenging the witch, everything he himself saw was real. But in this new, loveless* gamne, he isn't the detective anymore, Erika is... meaning I guess we have to trust anything she sees as "what is true". And has she personally seen the bodies? She was in the same room with them, but was more captivated by the circle than checking their condition... so can we say that they're dead, really? So the first two blue truths seem like the way to go here. *And yeah, I get where Ronove is coming from in calling this game lacking both love and honor, because everything feels a lot more...skeevy, somehow, than the Beato games. More bloody, more harsh, more uncomfortable... and the designated detective has somehow managed to out-rear end in a top hat Holmes, Poirot, and Wolfe before the murders even started. Think about that.
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Apr 4, 2017 13:40
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