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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You should already know that I have an even better solution: full communism now. You should already know that I have been engaged in ideological critique. The Soviet version of War and Peace is loving amazing and would totally fit in with all the modern franchise films where The Hobbit get's turned into 3 movies and the last book in every YA series is split into two parts.
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Apr 4, 2017 05:31
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Maxwell Lord posted:So what are you doing to bring that about? You should definitely already know that I have been engaged in ideological critique. This means I dispense tactics regularly. One tactic is overidentification: Ghost In The Shell 2017 says that we should work to nationalize the corporations responsible for 'whitewashing', even if it means executing the capitalists who resist. This message must be taken seriously.
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Apr 4, 2017 05:45
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parallelodad posted:I don't believe there has ever been any society that hadn't discovered bartering. Even lower primates do it. Bartering and markets are not interchangeable, and capital does not mean "stuff" in general. Werner Sombart posted:The very concept of capital is derived from this way of looking at things; one can say that capital, as a category, did not exist before double-entry bookkeeping. Capital can be defined as that amount of wealth which is used in making profits and which enters into the accounts And that's in the frickin wiki article on capital. Like, I get that it's a complicated concept but the exchange of finished products for one another (or for money insofar as money is not necessarily fungible with capital) is not a capital exchange. No productive capacity changes control when I trade a pot for a shirt, or money for an X Box (except that in our society money can be used to secure ownership of capital, which is not always the case). In e.g. the Soviet Union or Inca Empire, capital goods were de jure under the control and at the dispense of the state and could not be exchanged, yet goods still changed hands and money still existed. Not even a dyed in the wool historical materialist like Tim Earle would claim that "all cultural exchanges are capital exchanges and always have been", which is to say that culture is a pure mask for economics, and that all economics are capitalist. It's just an absurd thing to say
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Apr 4, 2017 05:46
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I don't know where else to ask this, and given we've been discussing the film's failure here, I suppose this might be the best place: Could a movie like GiTS done better had they just brazenly Americanized the entire thing, top to bottom? Just said "gently caress it, Middle America is only gonna see this if it's set in New York"? The only example off the top of my head is Edge of Tomorrow, but I don't exactly follow anime-or-eastern-based-western-adaptations genre closely. As someone who hasn't read the comics and have no interest in doing so, I felt detached from the film because so much of the pieces that made it up were foreign (pun not intended) to me as a viewer. That's on me, obviously, because I'm an ignorant American and I'm not culturally exposed to other cultures as I should be. I've been asking myself if I'd have these questions if the movie I just saw was Deus Ex Starting JC Denton, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. Now, it'd set a horrible ethical precedent, but I think you get my question.
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Apr 4, 2017 06:17
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I mean that's what they used to do and people called those movies classics. Fistful of Dollars and Magnificent Seven are just Japanese films that have been Americanized (I know FFOD is Italian, whatever) to a much more significant degree. I mean replacing Japanese cultural signifiers (samurai) with American ones (gunslingers). I think part of the problem is that most modern remakes don't do enough to distinguish themselves as properties that are different than the originals. You have to do more than just change a film so it takes place in another culture, you have to change it so it's culturally and historically relevant to that culture so people can feel attached to it. Although I also think a lot of anime fans are drawn to it because of its appeal as a foreign and "exotic" thing so they'll never really approve of an adaption because it robs it of what they liked about it in the first place. All the more reason to ignore them. Like the American Akira is laughable because Akira is inherently Japanese. It doesn't mean that you couldn't make a good American film based on Akira, but you need to do more than just replace the Japanese characters with American ones Sorry that's very rambley. I'm very tired.
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Apr 4, 2017 06:37
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In fact, they already made a good film based on Akira, called Chronicle.SuperMechagodzilla posted:Note the hypocrisy: Power Rangers is an extremely whitewashed Super Sentai, but there's not a peep from pseudoprogressives. They apparently forgot? Or don't care? Outrage fatigue? What the gently caress are you talking about, the power rangers are one wheelchair away from being a live action Burger King Kid's Club. Nucleic Acids posted:Just from the perspective of studying media, it's been interesting watching Steve Jobs' posthumous... not really fall from grace, but lessening in stature. I mean, the fact that one of the go to villains for an action movie or a thriller is a guy in a black turtleneck seems to make it pretty obvious. Well, the only reason so many people beatified him in the first place was that he was in charge of the company that made gadgets they liked, so it was only a matter of time when all that was left was to actually learn things about him. Chairman Capone posted:But people keep acting like Elon Musk is some visionary and every stoned ramble he makes about nuking Mars or living in the Matrix has to be seriously dissected and analyzed as if there's anything more valid to it than the conspiracy theories of a Coast to Coast AM guest. The people needed a new Steve Jobs. raditts fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 06:45
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raditts posted:What the gently caress are you talking about, the power rangers are one wheelchair away from being a live action Burger King Kid's Club.
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Apr 4, 2017 07:05
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FishBulb posted:I mean that's what they used to do and people called those movies classics. Fistful of Dollars and Magnificent Seven are just Japanese films that have been Americanized (I know FFOD is Italian, whatever) to a much more significant degree. I mean replacing Japanese cultural signifiers (samurai) with American ones (gunslingers). I think part of the problem is that most modern remakes don't do enough to distinguish themselves as properties that are different than the originals. I'm really hoping Jordan Peele gets full creative control on that if he does get to direct Akira, because an American Akira could be tooled in such a way to have it make the same statements about race and politics as Get Out. One of the major themes about the Akira manga is independence and self-control, it's leads are juvenile delinquents and revolutionaries, it's antagonists are people who seek control and power.
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Apr 4, 2017 07:35
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Young Freud posted:I'm really hoping Jordan Peele gets full creative control on that if he does get to direct Akira, because an American Akira could be tooled in such a way to have it make the same statements about race and politics as Get Out.
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Apr 4, 2017 07:41
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You should definitely already know that I have been engaged in ideological critique. So, posting messages on a declining comedy forum. Just saying, those who live in glass houses, etc.
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Apr 4, 2017 07:46
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Lobok posted:They should be thinking Fast & Furious. Hell, the last F&F and the new one are half GI Joe anyway. Cars and parachutes, War Bus, Battle Van, drones, the harpoon guns everywhere, and look at this thing: I mean, the MASK movie would own if they took this route.
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Apr 4, 2017 07:50
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FilthyImp posted:And it's not like the US Government ever had qualms about experimenting on minorities... Yeah, I hate to go into fanfic writing but I'd make Akira responsible for the Big One earthquake in California (gently caress this New York poo poo, Cali offers more story opportunities), that kills millions but also changes the political landscape by removing the key Democratic Party stronghold of the country. Welcome to 20 years of Republican darkness. And to rebuild California's metropolitan areas, lots of migrant workers, both foreign and domestic, are employed and exploited in constructing "Nuevo Angeles", so you get the seeds of conflict that explode in the film. The biker gang and revolutionaries would be mostly minorities, save Tetsuo, who I'd make a white kid having trouble fitting in anywhere, even this gang, who he only got into it because his longtime friend Kaneda got in. So, you get this angry white male "school shooter" vibe with Tetsuo, out to make the world pay when he gets his powers (also, this is starting to sound exactly like Chronicle). The government antagonists are almost entirely made of white guys and a major source of conflict is the state government trying to reestablish it's sovereignty from the federal government (represented by the Colonel), with some extreme factions looking at complete secession.
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Apr 4, 2017 07:56
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Is japanese spiderman or indian superman also problematic in the same way american power rangers are supposed to be?
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Apr 4, 2017 10:44
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Avalerion posted:Is japanese spiderman or indian superman also problematic in the same way american power rangers are supposed to be? The thread has heretofore established that imperial powers or former empires such as japan, great britain, france and russia will be seen as guilty of inappropriate appropriation whereas former colonies such as india can not be held accountable. The united states having been a colony but now recognized as an empire by proxy furthermore... Indian superman is cool, japanese spiderman is potentially problematic
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Apr 4, 2017 13:37
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Avalerion posted:Is japanese spiderman or indian superman also problematic in the same way american power rangers are supposed to be? No and yes. The issue is ideology, not superficial content. Japanese spiderman and indian superman and power rangers can be "problematic" for non-exclusive reasons.
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Apr 4, 2017 13:55
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Maxwell Lord posted:So what are you doing to bring that about? He can only post so much Zizek, he's not a mach oh, right
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Apr 4, 2017 13:58
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FishBulb posted:I mean that's what they used to do and people called those movies classics. Fistful of Dollars and Magnificent Seven are just Japanese films that have been Americanized (I know FFOD is Italian, whatever) to a much more significant degree. I mean replacing Japanese cultural signifiers (samurai) with American ones (gunslingers). I think part of the problem is that most modern remakes don't do enough to distinguish themselves as properties that are different than the originals. Eh, the relationships between the films and the disparate cultures aren't quite that simple. Fistful of Dollars was openly (but not quite legally!) a remake a Yojimbo but don't forget that Kurosawa has admitted that the plot for Yojimbo was pretty much lifted from Dashiell Hammett's noir novels. In that sense the remake with Eastwood as The Man With No Name was re-Americanized. Kurosawa was always heavily influenced by US cinema and literature and classical sources such as Shakespeare as well as Japanese culture, he can't be pigeonholed that easily. Avalerion posted:Is japanese spiderman or indian superman also problematic in the same way american power rangers are supposed to be? Japanese Spider-Man was an official production made under licence from Marvel and in return Marvel got to include Godzilla in their comics. It was an open and genuine cultural exchange. The Japanese clearly got the better end of that deal, Japanese Spider-Man had a giant transforming robot called Leopardon and pretty much re-invented the Super Sentai tokusatsu genre. He also had one of the best theme songs of any TV show ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvNdt7na4eQ
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Apr 4, 2017 14:13
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Yea, its funny how it makes people go "power rangers rip off" when it's the other way around.
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Apr 4, 2017 15:15
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Not even that, they're the same production company. Sentai is a Spider-man ripoff in the same way Family Matters is a Full House ripoff.
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Apr 4, 2017 15:19
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Family Matters is more deserving of a continuation than Full House.
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Apr 4, 2017 15:21
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It had a perfect ending. Laura in Love with Steve, promising they'd be together forever, showing America that relentless stalking works and is good.
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Apr 4, 2017 15:34
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Japanese Spider-Man actually showed up in the Spider-Verse event where all the spiderman from different stories and media appeared.
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Apr 4, 2017 15:35
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Eh, the relationships between the films and the disparate cultures aren't quite that simple. Fistful of Dollars was openly (but not quite legally!) a remake a Yojimbo but don't forget that Kurosawa has admitted that the plot for Yojimbo was pretty much lifted from Dashiell Hammett's noir novels. In that sense the remake with Eastwood as The Man With No Name was re-Americanized. Like I said, fans have these unexamined notions of ethnic purity. Modern anime was effectively invented by Walt Disney, and Godzilla is a borderline ripoff of The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms. Ghost In The Shell 1995 is inspired by Blade Runner and quotes the Bible constantly. Akira was partly inspired by Moebius comics and loving Star Wars - which was of course inspired by Kurosawa movies!
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Apr 4, 2017 15:38
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Skwirl posted:The Soviet version of War and Peace is loving amazing and would totally fit in with all the modern franchise films where The Hobbit get's turned into 3 movies and the last book in every YA series is split into two parts. I am intrigued by this. Go on..... edit: FishBulb posted:
I mean other than the name and the specter of a city being blown up (which actually reflects alot of American fears/guilt about a bombing or calamity occuring in an American city, see pretty much every big budget action movie from the late 90s onwards), I think Akira is infinitely translateable. Its about forgotten punks, an encircling military/corporate complex, abused children. And more than anything, it's about good action. Breathtaking action, the best I've ever read in a comic or manga. I mean if you can just approximate that, I think American Akira can play. The name is ominious in any language. edit 2: really like Young Freud's take on it. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 15:39
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Chairman Capone posted:But people keep acting like Elon Musk is some visionary and every stoned ramble he makes about nuking Mars or living in the Matrix has to be seriously dissected and analyzed as if there's anything more valid to it than the conspiracy theories of a Coast to Coast AM guest. Elon's been exposed as being quite nasty in his anti-union stances, the worm is turning on him too. He's a chucklefuck.
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Apr 4, 2017 15:52
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quote:Modern anime was effectively invented by Walt Disney His greatest crime.
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Apr 4, 2017 15:56
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parallelodad posted:It had a perfect ending. Laura in Love with Steve, promising they'd be together forever, showing America that relentless stalking works and is good.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:24
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Casimir Radon posted:Apparently the episode I always thought was the final one was just the last one on ABC. In which Carl and Steve go back in time to a pirate ship, and it was in 3d. Yeah they had another year on CBS where Steve at one point gets mind reading powers on accident and finds out Laura is attracted to him, the mom is replaced by another actress, Eddie becomes a cop, Steve becomes an astronaut and is set adrift in space where he hot wires a derelict satellite to gain control of its orbital adjustment thrusters in order to get back to his shuttle craft. I can't remember if it's this season or had already happened on ABC that Steve cloned himself and that clone became a permanent Stefan, but broke up with Laura to pursue his modeling career, and Jaleel White dressed in drag as an Urkels cousin character and tried to rape Eddie by ambushing him in a cabin and making him think of the implication.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:32
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parallelodad posted:Yeah they had another year on CBS where Steve at one point gets mind reading powers on accident and finds out Laura is attracted to him, the mom is replaced by another actress, Eddie becomes a cop, Steve becomes an astronaut and is set adrift in space where he hot wires a derelict satellite to gain control of its orbital adjustment thrusters in order to get back to his shuttle craft.  Well still better than what I imagine modern sitcoms are like. I thought the Halloween episodes were as nutty as Family Matters got.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:36
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Yeah Family Matters rules. It's a family sitcom that suddenly took an insane sci-fi bent where a character invents robocops, time travel, transformation chambers, cloning machines, shrink rays, embiggening rays, teleportation pads, and artificial gravity. There's nothing like it. There's an episode where they suffera home invasion and resolve this by going on the transformation change chamber with a lock of Bruce Lee's hair and then kick the poo poo out of the robbers.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:43
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Shageletic posted:I am intrigued by this. Go on..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_and_Peace_(film_series) 4 parts, 147 minutes, 100 minutes, 84 minutes and 100 minutes long, making it's total length shorter than even the theatrical cuts of the Hobbit films quote:More than forty museums[10] contributed historical artifacts, such as chandeliers, furniture and cutlery, to create an authentic impression of the early 19th-century Russia. Thousands of costumes were sewn, mainly military uniform of the sorts worn in the Napoleonic Wars,[11] including 11,000 shakos.[2] Sixty obsolete cannons were cast and 120 wagons and carts constructed for the production.[10]
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Apr 4, 2017 17:47
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Apparently this thing is out on dvd/blu-ray at the end of April. They just threw all the c-level wrestlers into this one, I guess. I'm still not totally clear on how WWE actually makes any money on this garbage, but I suppose there is some sort of tax angle going on.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:33
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parallelodad posted:Yeah Family Matters rules. It's a family sitcom that suddenly took an insane sci-fi bent where a character invents robocops, time travel, transformation chambers, cloning machines, shrink rays, embiggening rays, teleportation pads, and artificial gravity. All that insanity also lead to this fantastic K&P sketch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Zdp1RfoyI
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Apr 4, 2017 19:00
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Elon's been exposed as being quite nasty in his anti-union stances, the worm is turning on him too. He's a chucklefuck. Just wait until his Neuralink gets exposed to have a backdoor for the CIA and NSA, this movie writes itself!
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Apr 4, 2017 19:21
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Skwirl posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_and_Peace_(film_series) Reminds me of the Soviet coproduction Napoleon movie, where they did an extensive fucken landscaping operation to recreate the terrain at Waterloo
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Apr 4, 2017 19:24
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http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/harry-shearer-why-my-spinal-tap-lawsuit-affects-all-creators-w474441 Harry Shearer wrote a nice piece about Hollywood accounting and the Spinal Tap lawsuit that is happening right now. quote:The comics are now dealing with the seemingly improbable realities of Hollywood. Last fall, Shearer filed a $125 million lawsuit against Vivendi – the company that owns This Is Spinal Tap – for financial misappropriation and launched a website called Fairness Rocks explaining his lawsuit. He alleged that the company says the four creators between them have only earned $81 in merchandizing income and $98 for their contributions to the movie's soundtrack over a 22-year period. Reiner swiftly threw his support behind Shearer, and Guest and McKean joined the lawsuit – elevating the level of damages they're seeking to $400 million – earlier this year. "It's time for a reckoning," McKean said at the time. "It's only right."
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Apr 4, 2017 19:29
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Now now everyone knows studios, like NFL teams, are struggling to break even. That's why when a film does poorly in the box office opening weekend you can expect a reduction in headcount. Someone has to pay for Jupiter Ascending after all.
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Apr 4, 2017 19:36
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MisterBibs posted:I don't know where else to ask this, and given we've been discussing the film's failure here, I suppose this might be the best place: this is what I wanted GitS to do, and why I sort of lost any enthusiasm for it when they kept way too much of the original Japanese stuff. The "Magnificent Seven" approach is the best approach to adapting foreign properties. You take the skeleton, and some of the basic character ideas and visuals, but then put a distinctly American spin on it. This only really works, though, when the property CAN reasonably be translated into something resonant to American culture. American Akira is the stupidest loving idea ever.
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Apr 4, 2017 20:01
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Spatula City posted:The "Magnificent Seven" approach is the best approach to adapting foreign properties. You take the skeleton, and some of the basic character ideas and visuals, but then put a distinctly American spin on it. This only really works, though, when the property CAN reasonably be translated into something resonant to American culture. American Akira is the stupidest loving idea ever.
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Apr 4, 2017 20:25
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Spatula City posted:this is what I wanted GitS to do, and why I sort of lost any enthusiasm for it when they kept way too much of the original Japanese stuff. The "Magnificent Seven" approach is the best approach to adapting foreign properties. You take the skeleton, and some of the basic character ideas and visuals, but then put a distinctly American spin on it. This only really works, though, when the property CAN reasonably be translated into something resonant to American culture. American Akira is the stupidest loving idea ever. Again, why? What about Akira makes it untranslateable?
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Apr 4, 2017 20:27
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