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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed. |
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33 | 6.38% |
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343 | 66.34% |
| Keith Ellison |
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54 | 10.44% |
| Pete Buttigieg |
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71 | 13.73% |
| Jehmu Green |
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16 | 3.09% |
| Total: | 416 votes | ||
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Crowsbeak posted:Oh No one likes Mike Bloomberg, I'll never understand how he got a 3td term. Terrible years in New York under him. That the man who is responsible for the homeless population exploding in NYC was the second choice candidate of centrist Dems (the Republican mayor remind you) says an awful lot about them
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Apr 4, 2017 17:56
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Nevvy Z posted:Too late. Also, Bloomberg would have won. This is unintelligible. JeffersonClay posted:So you're white knighting the Berniebros as noble dissenters here? I thought the narrative was they weren't real. Is it crazy to think they were created by reactionaries in order to discredit the left and drive a wedge into the democratic coalition? No, putin would never think of something like that *ignores massive Russian support for conservative parties in Europe* YOU'VE BECOME A loving TRUTHER DUDE Take a deep breathe and realize how loving stupid your arguments have become. I'm a "berniebro." I wasn't created by Putin. I was created by 8 years of Bush and then 8 years of Obama and then the promise of 8 more years under the dumpster fire that is HRC.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:56
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Majorian posted:
You show a startling lack of ability to judge when you're wasting your time. I'm trying to help you, spend less time arguing with the smug idiot and more time learning lessons about how leftists should take over the party.
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Apr 4, 2017 17:56
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Frijolero posted:This is unintelligible. if most Bernie Bros voted for Hildawg, whose votes are we trying to capture by continuing to go left? Are those votes there? can they be captured? FWIW I think the GE loss just an issue of latent misogyny. I think it'll be a lot longer than we hope before we see a woman president. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 18:01
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Majorian posted:I don't think anyone has denied that there are a handful of sexist dickheads who supported Bernie; it's pretty clear that Hillary diehards seriously overstated their number and their influence, though. And perhaps overstating their number and influence was exactly Putin's plan. Hence the sockpuppets. This is not some crackpot theory I just came up with. http://www.dailywire.com/news/14998/senate-intelligence-witness-russians-used-bernie-hank-berrien quote:speaking to the Senate Intelligence Committee, Retired Gen. Keith Alexander, the former director of the National Security Agency, reported that Russia, using bots nicknamed “Bernie Brothers,” tried to foment dissent between Bernie Sanders supporters and Hillary Clinton supporters in 2016, then focused on increasing the polarity between Republicans and Democrats. http://www.rawstory.com/2017/03/russians-used-bernie-bros-as-unwitting-agents-in-disinformation-campaign-senate-intel-witness/ quote:Supporters of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders (I) reported earlier this month that during the 2016 election, their social media feeds and pro-Sanders Facebook groups were inundated with what they now believe were Russian bots spewing anti-Hillary memes including fake news stories about Clinton using a body double and murdering her ideological opponents. Over time the anti-Clinton online faction became known by the nickname “Bernie Bros.” We got ratfucked y'all.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:02
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Nevvy Z posted:if most Bernie Bros voted for Hildawg, whose votes are we trying to capture by continuing to go left? Are those votes there? can they be captured? 1) We need votes from young people and working class people, of all races. 2) HRC lost because she was garbage, not because she was a she. 3) Who cares about diversity in an executive body that is corrupt as hell and genocidal? I'd love a Hispanic president, but I don't want a neoliberal Hispanic president. JeffersonClay posted:We got ratfucked y'all. If by "we" you mean the Bernie progressive coalition, and the ratfuckers are the DNC, then yeah. We got ratfucked. I love that dumbass centrists like to yell about Bros and misogyny when all the real hardcore Bernie supporters were young women.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:11
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JeffersonClay posted:We got ratfucked y'all. lmao shut the gently caress up
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Apr 4, 2017 18:13
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Frijolero posted:1) We need votes from young people and working class people, of all races. Sure, does going left get those votes? Does it get enough of those votes to win? Does it get more of those votes than simply running someone who doesn't have 30 years of targeted media hate against them? Can anyone support this with data?
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Apr 4, 2017 18:14
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Frijolero posted:If by "we" you mean the Bernie progressive coalition, and the ratfuckers are the DNC, then yeah. We got ratfucked. You've got a strange commitment to missing the point here. The Bernie progressive coalition was the victim of a Russian active measures campaign to discredit them among other Democrats as racists and misogynists. Similarly, the Russians hacked and released podesta's emails to discredit the clinton campaign among the Bernie progressive coalition. I don't know what purpose it serves for you to pretend this didn't happen.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:16
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Just because Clinton diehards are easily trolled on the internet doesn't mean that it was Russia's fault that they all had nothing but venom for Sanders and his supporters. Even if there were "bots" pretending to be Sanders fans the Clintonites needed no help trying to isolate and split the party away from people they saw as a threat to their power. There was no "ratfuck." There's been a time-honored tradition since 2008 of Clinton and her supporters creating yawning rifts in the party solely by their own hubris and selfishness. This time it was just fatal to her.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:16
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Nevvy Z posted:Sure, does going left get those votes? Does it get enough of those votes to win? Does it get more of those votes than simply running someone who doesn't have 30 years of targeted media hate against them? Can anyone support this with data? Well we know centrist platitudes doesn't get those votes
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Apr 4, 2017 18:17
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Nevvy Z posted:Sure, does going left get those votes? Does it get enough of those votes to win? Does it get more of those votes than simply running someone who doesn't have 30 years of targeted media hate against them? Can anyone support this with data? Better not try!
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Apr 4, 2017 18:17
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In other words unless you think Neera Tanden and Sally Albright are Russian psyop active measures, your analysis is as hilariously misguided now as before the election.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:17
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JeffersonClay posted:The Bernie progressive coalition was the victim of a Russian active measures campaign to discredit them among other Democrats as racists and misogynists. You truly are the slimiest loving person I've ever interacted with. Did the Russians also convince Hillary's team and the media to use those racist/misogynist smears for their own benefit? The Russians may have had bots, but Hillary did all the heavy lifting.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:20
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i got a rude facebook comment on my timeline. obviously this is the work of russian bots
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Apr 4, 2017 18:22
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Fiction posted:In other words unless you think Neera Tanden and Sally Albright are Russian psyop active measures, your analysis is as hilariously misguided now as before the election. Ah, I see. The Russian's can't have had any influence on the election or in heightening the divisions which currently exist in the democratic coalition because that would complicate the "democrats bad" narrative you're clinging to.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:24
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Fiction posted:Just because Clinton diehards are easily trolled on the internet doesn't mean that it was Russia's fault that they all had nothing but venom for Sanders and his supporters. Even if there were "bots" pretending to be Sanders fans the Clintonites needed no help trying to isolate and split the party away from people they saw as a threat to their power. It's kinda hard to not have venom for Sanders' supporters when people purporting to be Sanders supporters are telling you to kill yourself daily. It wasn't "Clintonites" who were getting targeted, either, it was any woman or PoC with a lot of followers who had a criticism for Bernie or the progressive left. I'm glad a lot of that was fake.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:24
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I said this in another thread, but if "the Russians did this too" is the narrative that will make people finally move on from the Bernie Bro narrative, I welcome it with open arms My understanding before was that the trolls were all Trumpists that either pretended to be Bernie supporters to be taken seriously or were assumed by Hillary people to be Bernie supporters for narrative reasons. Substituting "Russians" for "Trumpists" doesn't really require much rethinking. Either way Brock et al sure did run with it as hard as they could.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:29
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JeffersonClay posted:You've got a strange commitment to missing the point here. The Bernie progressive coalition was the victim of a Russian active measures campaign to discredit them among other Democrats as racists and misogynists. Similarly, the Russians hacked and released podesta's emails to discredit the clinton campaign among the Bernie progressive coalition. I don't know what purpose it serves for you to pretend this didn't happen. You are as slimy and awful a piece of human garbage as your champion.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:29
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Frijolero posted:You truly are the slimiest loving person I've ever interacted with. I want to know if the Hillary Campaign had RUssian operatives in it. I mean that could explain how she visited Michigan three times well instead going to loving fundraisers in LA and New York. Or when the SEIU wanted to campaign in Michigan they were told to go back to Iowa to gently caress with Trump. Or how about not visiting Wisconsin once? I mean it cannot just be that she and her campaign were a bunch of fuckups.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:30
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JeffersonClay posted:You've got a strange commitment to missing the point here. The Bernie progressive coalition was the victim of a Russian active measures campaign to discredit them among other Democrats as racists and misogynists. Similarly, the Russians hacked and released podesta's emails to discredit the clinton campaign among the Bernie progressive coalition. I don't know what purpose it serves for you to pretend this didn't happen. You're a conspiracy theorist nutjob.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:31
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Frijolero posted:You truly are the slimiest loving person I've ever interacted with. steinrokkan posted:You are as slimy and awful a piece of human garbage as your champion. What about that post did you disagree with? I get that you hate JC but he's not wrong or being a dick in that post.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:31
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loquacius posted:I said this in another thread, but if "the Russians did this too" is the narrative that will make people finally move on from the Bernie Bro narrative, I welcome it with open arms It entirely whitewashes the responsibility of the centrists for conspiring against the progressive wing of their party, and makes the progressives come to "peace" with people who are still scheming to remove them from politics. For the sake of survival, the left must remember what enemies it faces.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:31
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JeffersonClay posted:So you're white knighting the Berniebros as noble dissenters here? I thought the narrative was they weren't real. Is it crazy to think they were created by reactionaries in order to discredit the left and drive a wedge into the democratic coalition? No, putin would never think of something like that *ignores massive Russian support for conservative parties in Europe* What I'm trying to say is Bernie Sanders is a Russian agent sent in to sow chaos and disorder amongst the Democratic Party
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Apr 4, 2017 18:31
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Nevvy Z posted:What about that post did you disagree with? They are trying to wash their hands over a campaign of political backstabbing and humiliation they themselves perpetuated, and over which they gloated with unparalleled smugness until their own ambitions imploded.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:32
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But none of this matters because neither the real bros nor fake bots had any tangible power or sway over the election. On the other hand, the HRC friendly media jumped on the BernieBro bullshit. It was a non-story, but it drove a lot of HRC supporters to condemn Bernie supporters. You're also dismissing the fact that Hillary literally had an online brigade "correcting the record." If we can make up conspiracies about Russia, why don't we also talk about the negative influence of Hillary's bots?
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Apr 4, 2017 18:33
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steinrokkan posted:They are trying to wash their hands over a campaign of political backstabbing and humiliation they themselves perpetuated, and over which the gloated until their own ambitions imploded. What backstabbing? who backstabbed somebody? Did JC hurt bernie? The inability of poeple to hold multiple thoughts in their head at one time, such as "hilary clinton was a bad candidate" and "russia actively interefered in the election and it helped donald trump", is astounding.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:33
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JeffersonClay posted:We got ratfucked y'all. You mean that you and your ilk eagerly chose to embrace a narrative pushed by russian psyops and consequently bought the lies about "bernie bros" hook, line and sinker, and now you're here to smug it up because you got "ratfucked"?
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Apr 4, 2017 18:34
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Nevvy Z posted:What about that post did you disagree with? I get that you hate JC but he's not wrong or being a dick in that post. He's blaming Russia for the in-fighting instead of the actual aggressors (Hillary, the DNC, Hillary friendly media).
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Apr 4, 2017 18:34
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:It's kinda hard to not have venom for Sanders' supporters when people purporting to be Sanders supporters are telling you to kill yourself daily. It wasn't "Clintonites" who were getting targeted, either, it was any woman or PoC with a lot of followers who had a criticism for Bernie or the progressive left. I'm glad a lot of that was fake. But oh no we can't give any credence to the Russian interference narrative even though it would insulate the Bernie coalition from the most persistent criticism because that might mean democrats are not as bad as we keep saying they are. Frijolero posted:You truly are the slimiest loving person I've ever interacted with. To be fair, if she had said "hey the Russians are posing as leftists to discredit us and divide our coalition" you would have said she was redbaiting and trying to start a nuclear war. I really don't get your position here. Why are you more mad about the Clinton campaign falling for Russian smears than the people who created the smears themselves?
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Apr 4, 2017 18:35
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Frijolero posted:He's blaming Russia for the in-fighting instead of the actual aggressors (Hillary, the DNC, Hillary friendly media). Ah. So this is just about continuing the crusade against HRC. You are as bad as Donald Trump and his team. Edit-"infighting". I thought it was a primary. And the winners aren't the ones who would have felt the need to keep fighting the primary after it ended. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Apr 4, 2017 |
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Apr 4, 2017 18:35
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loquacius posted:I said this in another thread, but if "the Russians did this too" is the narrative that will make people finally move on from the Bernie Bro narrative, I welcome it with open arms Yeah, it didn't have to be THE RUSSIANS!!!1!! necessarily, but there was an obvious coordinated effort to discredit Bernie supporters. Could've been Trumpers. I bought it, because those accounts were active in pro-Bernie discussions, not just harassment. It's funny that people are calling this a "conspiracy theory." People, the harassment happened, that's not up for debate; the alternative to the "conspiracy theory" is that a shitload of Bernie supporters are racist, misogynist pieces of poo poo. I, uh, much prefer believing that it was coordinated trolling from someone unaffiliated with the American left.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:36
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Nevvy Z posted:What backstabbing? who backstabbed somebody? Did JC hurt bernie? Democrat leaders, pundits and posters including JC and his ilk spent the most heated part of the primaries constructing and promoting the narrative which they now try to offload on some made up Russian conspirators. It was backstabbing as much as any other form of foul play because it was a deliberate, lie filled smear campaign against a running opponent, in an environment that was supposed to promote strength and unity in the party through competition of platforms, a vision HRC herself formally endorsed.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:37
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The most bizarre part of the story here is that the Clintonistas, literally right after being proven wrong yet again, are trying to gaslight everybody else to accept their rewriting of history, as if Clinton's primary campaign isn't both in recent memory and exceptionally well documented.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:39
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steinrokkan posted:Democrat leaders, pundits and posters including JC and his ilk spent the most heated part of the primaries constructing and promoting the narrative which they now try to offload on some made up Russian conspirators. It was backstabbing as much as any other form of because it was a deliberate, lie filled smear campaign against a running opponent, in an environment that was supposed to promote strength and unity in the party through competition of platforms, a vision HRC herself formally endorsed. I don't remember what JC was up to during the primary honestly, but you are still fighting it so maybe you have some posts of him smearing bernie with known lies? Cerebral Bore posted:The most bizarre part of the story here is that the Clintonistas, literally right after being proven wrong yet again, are trying to gaslight everybody else to accept their rewriting of history, as if Clinton's primary campaign isn't both in recent memory and exceptionally well documented. Perhaps you could find evidence of the lie instead of merely asserting it is a lie because it was posted by JC.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:39
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JeffersonClay posted:Why are you more mad about the Clinton campaign falling for Russian smears than the people who created the smears themselves? When Bernie said "we don't give a drat about your emails," he essentially shed any conspiracy bullshit to run a substantive campaign. When Hillary said "Bernie and co. are sexist," she essentially bought conspiracy bullshit to run a garbage campaign. Do you understand that an amorphous blob of "bots" isn't to blame when a campaign team and the media are colluding to take down a popular candidate?
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Apr 4, 2017 18:40
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steinrokkan posted:It entirely whitewashes the responsibility of the centrists for conspiring against the progressive wing of their party, and makes the progressives come to "peace" with people who are still scheming to remove them from politics. For the sake of survival, the left must remember what enemies it faces. Putin is an enemy of the left and as a European leftist this should be really loving obvious to you. Cerebral Bore posted:You mean that you and your ilk eagerly chose to embrace a narrative pushed by russian psyops and consequently bought the lies about "bernie bros" hook, line and sinker, and now you're here to smug it up because you got "ratfucked"? We all did. I'm not smug, I'm incensed, both at the effectiveness of the Russian active measures and at y'all sticking your heads in the sand.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:40
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JeffersonClay was a perfect example of how insufferably smug Hillary supporters were about her chances of winning all the way up until the election. Now it's the leftists' fault for not believing it was the Russians all along, a convenient blanket excuse for the Democrats doing everything in their power to not have to listen to their constituents.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:41
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Nevvy Z posted:Ah. So this is just about continuing the crusade against HRC. You are as bad as Donald Trump and his team. If somebody tried to kick you out of a house you co-own, failed, and then tried to claim it was actually the neighbor who changed the lock and barricaded the windows and plastered the neighborhood with leaflets calling you a rapist, and didn't even apologize Would you just return to live with him under one roof as if nothing happened
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Apr 4, 2017 18:41
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steinrokkan posted:If somebody tried to kick you out of a house you co-own, failed I'm not sure how this analogy is supposed to work.
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Apr 4, 2017 18:41
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