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Why do we like dunking on it? Well, a lot of us were around watching these bonkers decisions being made by the devs from the get go and at this point it's just kind of fun to go laugh at the train wreck we knew it would become. Wildstar is a particularly fun example because of the context of the situation and what it represents with regards to MMO's as a whole, specifically in that it initially tried to satisfy a VERY vocal minority of players who actively yearn for an Exclusive Hardcore MMO Endgame that has been out of fashion for AGES. Combined with observing what its contemporaries were doing (and succeeding with), Wildstar a great example of why that sort of high-dedication Endgame is dead in MMOs, and how much of a shame it is to see a lot of good effort that was put elsewhere dragged down with the "GET HARDCORE, CUPCAKES!" boat. Heck, this thread could be renamed "General MMO Discussion Thread" for how widely this topic applies. At the very least, there hasn't been enough interest in discussing Wildstar as a game being played for that topic to last. People just aren't attracted to it.
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Apr 4, 2017 21:35
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Once again nothing is stopping you and if you focus more on the game and less on how other people talk about it you may even find someone agreeing with you.
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Apr 4, 2017 21:35
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teamcharlie posted:But seriously: you wanna make jokes about the game, go right ahead. But I think that kinda thing comes out of enjoying the game rather than just being annoyed that it hasn't died yet. I mainly post in this thread because I find dead/dying MMOs and the communities surrounding them kind of interesting. The community that was built around Wildstar is particularly interesting because Carbine seemed to actively encourage the really lovely style of hardcore elitism that has given MMO players in general a bad reputation over the years. At this point most of the elitist jerks have moved on to other games so whats left is this sad jumble of hangers on in love with the idea of Wildstar and people with some kind of crippling mental illness. Its become like a train wreck whose morbidity I cant help but stare at and at this point I think even most of the people still playing agree with me when I say itd probably be for the better if NCSoft just put this whole abysmal experiment out of its misery. Oh, and the comedy was a few days ago when Wildstar 2 was brought up in an April fools joke.
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Apr 4, 2017 22:00
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i am tim! posted:Why do we like dunking on it? Well, a lot of us were around watching these bonkers decisions being made by the devs from the get go and at this point it's just kind of fun to go laugh at the train wreck we knew it would become. Wildstar is a particularly fun example because of the context of the situation and what it represents with regards to MMO's as a whole, specifically in that it initially tried to satisfy a VERY vocal minority of players who actively yearn for an Exclusive Hardcore MMO Endgame that has been out of fashion for AGES. Combined with observing what its contemporaries were doing (and succeeding with), Wildstar a great example of why that sort of high-dedication Endgame is dead in MMOs, and how much of a shame it is to see a lot of good effort that was put elsewhere dragged down with the "GET HARDCORE, CUPCAKES!" boat. I was actually under the impression that 'General MMO Discussion Thread' is what this had turned into. I certainly know that when I see new posts in here that the last thing I expect is for them to actually be discussing Wildstar.
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Apr 5, 2017 01:03
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Eopia posted:I was actually under the impression that 'General MMO Discussion Thread' is what this had turned into. I certainly know that when I see new posts in here that the last thing I expect is for them to actually be discussing Wildstar. This, also what CoffeeBooze said, and the added bonus of laughing at WS when there is actual news about it. Every few months you get someone who pretty much asks why this thread exists.
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Apr 5, 2017 01:07
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Having known somebody who worked on this game and his stories from that time I am totally unsurprised by the shitfest the game is now.
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Apr 5, 2017 02:07
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I feel legit bad for most of the people who worked on this game. The Glassdoor reviews for Carbine made it clear management was a bunch of crunch happy idiots who way overworked their staff for pay below the industry average. Then once the game released and promptly started to fall apart those managers who had created the mess promptly hosed off to more lucrative positions as they failed upwards, leaving the poor sods who worked on the game stuck trying to fix the mess, only to be slowly but steadily laid off and sent off to collect unemployment. Wildstars development history really does read like a bad con job.
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Apr 5, 2017 03:11
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teamcharlie posted:I'd flip that and ask: what is the doom and gloom of this thread trying to achieve? It's at time of writing 79 pages of thread for a game that people keep stating over and over and over is dead. But the game keeps chugging along and when I play Wildstar, it's fun. I can't believe you're complaining about someone making fun of Wildstar in TYOOL 2017 If you want an Only Positive thread I guess you can try to make one and see how it goes
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Apr 5, 2017 03:26
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Xarbala posted:I can't believe you're complaining about someone making fun of Wildstar in TYOOL 2017 And if you do this, please link the thread here, so we can read it and comment positively about the positive comments.
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Apr 5, 2017 03:29
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teamcharlie posted:I'd flip that and ask: what is the doom and gloom of this thread trying to achieve? It's at time of writing 79 pages of thread for a game that people keep stating over and over and over is dead. But the game keeps chugging along and when I play Wildstar, it's fun. we're not trying to achieve anything we're just dancing on it's grave because it's funny when wet dreams of elitist morons crash
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Apr 5, 2017 03:42
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Wildstar effecrively killed the AAA MMO in the west, so it's an interesting post-mortem and look at the genre as a whole. The Next Big Thing, two Everquest titles, have been cancelled, so there's nothing on the horizon besides some Kickstarter games that I have zero faith in delivering a decent product. Things may be in the East where Blade & Soul is relatively new and I assume new games are still in the works. But in the US it's basically WoW, FFXIV, and a handful of failed AAA titles that found their small, core audience after f2p conversions.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:49
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teamcharlie posted:How about just playing Wildstar as an action RPG and not worrying about whether it's a good long-term time investment as an MMO? The problem you are going to run into is that as you get near the end of the game you are going to have to do things with other people, hence the "Multiplayer" part of the MMO name, and without a steady and stable playerbase them people don't exist. I suppose if all you want to do is level classes and gently caress with houses, this is a great MMO to play, but no one is going to see that house but you. CoffeeBooze posted:I feel legit bad for most of the people who worked on this game. The Glassdoor reviews for Carbine made it clear management was a bunch of crunch happy idiots who way overworked their staff for pay below the industry average. Then once the game released and promptly started to fall apart those managers who had created the mess promptly hosed off to more lucrative positions as they failed upwards, leaving the poor sods who worked on the game stuck trying to fix the mess, only to be slowly but steadily laid off and sent off to collect unemployment. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can tell a LOT of love went into this game in a lot of areas, housing and customization to name a couple, but it really needed another year in development and a management team that could handle criticism. That languid jerking off motion post that one dev made when someone finally gasped bleeding across their punitive content (At the time) was really endemic of the entire problem at Carbine. It was run by self aggrandizing assholes. This is made all the funnier by their "The devs are listening" catchphrase. Rhymenoserous fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 16:54
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Pants Donkey posted:Wildstar effecrively killed the AAA MMO in the west, so it's an interesting post-mortem and look at the genre as a whole. The Next Big Thing, two Everquest titles, have been cancelled, so there's nothing on the horizon besides some Kickstarter games that I have zero faith in delivering a decent product. Look at how Funcom absolutely refuses to use MMO to describe TSW's relaunch. Instead they are labeling it something goofy like "action oriented persistent world". The genre isnt just dead, but the MMO label has become absolutely toxic. Wildstar alone isnt to blame for this though. It is the last in a long series of AAA MMO flops and probably the most spectacular. I have no clue what Wildstar's development cost but considering how long it went on for it couldnt have been cheap.
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Apr 5, 2017 16:59
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CoffeeBooze posted:I feel legit bad for most of the people who worked on this game. The Glassdoor reviews for Carbine made it clear management was a bunch of crunch happy idiots who way overworked their staff for pay below the industry average. Then once the game released and promptly started to fall apart those managers who had created the mess promptly hosed off to more lucrative positions as they failed upwards, leaving the poor sods who worked on the game stuck trying to fix the mess, only to be slowly but steadily laid off and sent off to collect unemployment. Yeah, I feel bad for the majority of the people that did make this game. They weren't in charge of the "hardcore!" marketing, unsustainable monetization model, disorganized patching system, excessive crunch time, unfriendly edgy attitude, doofy art direction, etc. Wasn't their fault that the management steered the whole project into a dumpster fire. The remaining staff have nothing to do with these toxic leaders who jumped ship long ago.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:26
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CoffeeBooze posted:... I have no clue what Wildstar's development cost but considering how long it went on for it couldnt have been cheap. You'd be surprised how cheap software can be when you lay off the good people, hire the cheapest ones, and work them all to the bone!
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Apr 5, 2017 17:40
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Wildstar's development wasn't cheap. It only became cheap when it came out and belly flopped down to joke status. And besides if it wasn't for wildstar we probably would still have city of heroes and likely project hon wouldn't have been canned to save money. So yeah gently caress wildstar. It's not worth defending.
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Apr 6, 2017 20:41
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randombattle posted:Wildstar's development wasn't cheap. Absolutely. Bear in mind that the game was in development for ~10 years. And still came out in the state it did.
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Apr 6, 2017 21:23
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Has anyone written books on the development of a particular very bad video game, in the way that has been done for a few very bad movies?
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Apr 7, 2017 00:37
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I wish, because a lot of this stuff would make for interesting and hilarious reading. Sadly it seems like there is a culture in game development, particularly game development management, where you never ever bad mouth a colleague. Its as if everyone covers for everyone else and then acts surprised when they poo poo out the same turd time after time(and then a few people get promoted). Of course the managers who encourage that kind of culture and are responsible for numerous turds have done pretty well for themselves so its not too surprising. Most of Carbine's top managers who were responsible for Wildstar's development and launch seem to be doing pretty well for themselves, so per the norm Wildstar is a pretty good example of why MMOs are such a poo poo show.
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Apr 7, 2017 02:25
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Honestly I'm just waiting for the star citizen train to finally wreck. It's going to be amazing.
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Apr 7, 2017 04:32
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Rhymenoserous posted:Honestly I'm just waiting for the star citizen train to finally wreck. It's going to be amazing. Gonna be a long time before that happens, it's like the emperor in warhammer, fucker just won't die.
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Apr 7, 2017 15:07
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Didn't occur to me that this was doing double duty as a general discussion thread. Been fun going through the last few pages, between the Wildstar-making GBS threads and other discussions. I'm burnt out on FFXIV right now but I'm broken brained enough to want something else to do, and I've been looking at TESO and Tree of Savior. God save me. 
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Apr 8, 2017 00:31
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Best you'll get is a anonymous tell al forum post, like the one about Vanguard where Brad McQuaid rifles through employees desks for Vicodin or the one about STar Wars: the old Republic where the project lead is bragging about 18gigs of a 25 gig game being voice files.
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Apr 8, 2017 01:07
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Ciaphas posted:Didn't occur to me that this was doing double duty as a general discussion thread. Been fun going through the last few pages, between the Wildstar-making GBS threads and other discussions. Elder Scrolls Online is actually a pretty alright game now.
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Apr 8, 2017 01:29
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So I'm told! I typically bounce hard off of exploration heavy games, though, and Oblivion and Skyrim were no exception at about 10 hours each (Morrowind was before my time, really).
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Apr 8, 2017 01:36
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The relaunch of The Secret World looks promising. Once it comes out you should consider giving it a look as well.
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Apr 8, 2017 02:22
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CoffeeBooze posted:The relaunch of The Secret World looks promising. Once it comes out you should consider giving it a look as well. It's gonna be f2p so trying it out will be quite easy too.
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Apr 8, 2017 02:53
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you won't have to worry about it eating too much of your time up, either, as it's probably not going to be any good
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Apr 8, 2017 09:04
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Azubah posted:Gonna be a long time before that happens, it's like the emperor in warhammer, fucker just won't die. I mean, I get it: having people preorder ship or whatever the gently caress was a brilliant move that kept nerds shoveling cash because they didn't want their $1000 "investment" in digital spaceships to go up in smoke. Not to mention exploiting nerds' competitiveness in the same way.
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Apr 8, 2017 09:08
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Babe Magnet posted:you won't have to worry about it eating too much of your time up, either, as it's probably not going to be any good The existing game is great
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Apr 8, 2017 16:14
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Pants Donkey posted:This absolutely boggles my mind. It's like year 5 of development and they have nothing, but people keep funneling money into its development. I saw it explained this way: They promised to expand the scope of the game if they got more money. They keep getting more money, and they keep adding feature bloat accordingly. Unlike conventionally funded games, they have no publisher pressuring them to finalize and cut things and actually release the drat product, so this will go on indefinitely.
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Apr 8, 2017 18:29
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I was skeptical about Star Citizen's ability to fund itself indefinitely at first, but even now five years later if you dare to besmirch Chris Roberts and/or SC on a large public web site like Reddit you will be absolutely bombarded by comments from angry people telling you how wrong you are and how SC will be the second coming of Christ in video game form. It is absolutely batty and their fervor seems to only increase with time. That poo poo is not going to release until Christ Roberts has bought himself a third mansion, and maybe not even then.
DapperDraculaDeer fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 00:05
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CoffeeBooze posted:I was skeptical about Star Citizen's ability to fund itself indefinitely at first, but even now five years later if you dare to besmirch Chris Roberts and/or SC on a large public web site like Reddit you will be absolutely bombarded by comments from angry people telling you how wrong you are and how SC will be the second coming of Christ in video game form. It is absolutely batty and their fervor seems to only increase with time. That poo poo is not going to release until Christ Roberts has bought himself a third mansion, and maybe not even then. Sunk Cost is one hell of a fallacy.
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Apr 9, 2017 01:58
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Its also shows how thirsty people are for space games especially for a space action MMO. Of course the dream of Star Citizen is way more powerful then what a game could ever produce.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:34
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Space? There's no more space stuff in Wildstar than there is in WoW.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:06
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Mr. Neutron posted:Space? There's no more space stuff in Wildstar than there is in WoW. There are what, 3 playable planets in WoW, 4 if you count old draenor? Hell, demon hunters get their own space ship as a class hall. One of the races are aliens who crash landed on the planet. WoW has way more space poo poo tbh.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:38
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Wildstar's idea of sci-fi is "WoW but with guns and robots". And WoW has those anyways.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:42
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BexGu posted:Its also shows how thirsty people are for space games especially for a space action MMO. Of course the dream of Star Citizen is way more powerful then what a game could ever produce. Sad thing is if he had kickstarted a purchase of the wing commander IP and started spinning out direct copies of the original games with updated engines/graphics/physics I'd have probably eaten it up/dumped money into his wallet by the shovel load. Wasn't squadron 42 supposed to be out like three years ago now? Whatever, I'm not giving him money.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:20
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Chris Roberts was the man who had to be escorted off of the premises by Microsoft to (barely) save Freelancer from his ludicrous mismanagement. But people have a short memory span and it would take a monumental flop for people to look past the reputation he earned for being a prototype-Hideo Kojima at the right place at the right time. It took the better part of a decade and a crowdfunding failure for people to realize Molyneux was an "ideas guy" hack, too.
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Apr 10, 2017 22:07
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Nah, people have known Molyneux was a hack since the first Black and White released. The problem is there really is a sucker born every second and a whole lot of them are super into video games. Also doesnt Chris Roberts still have some kind of ownership of the Wing Commander IP? Hes claimed repeatedly that various residuals from Wing Commander are how hes been able to afford some of the more outrageous stuff hes bought lately like that Pacific Palisades mansion of his. Wing Commander was a bit before my time, I know it was a huge hit but I really cant imagine it made as much money as he claims. Video games were just so much more niche back then.
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Apr 10, 2017 22:17
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