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Only Frogfoot concern is the armament 
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Apr 5, 2017 17:06
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I don't think we need more dedicated CAS crafts, we need multi-roles.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:08
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8 F-4E Phantoms ($68,000,000)
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Apr 5, 2017 17:09
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Popete posted:I'm all in on the Frogfoots, they are awesome and could provide us with a crap ton of CAS capability especially for a mission like this. You know what? Sod it, put me down for this option too. The sheer diversity of the Frogfoot's armaments are hard to beat, and even the complication of the supply lines is arguably an advantage (i.e. proofing us against a supplier shutting us off). Triple A posted:I don't think we need more dedicated CAS crafts, we need multi-roles. Do you mind explaining your rationale?
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Apr 5, 2017 17:12
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CirclMastr posted:Is it possible (based on flight time/fuel and sensor capabilities) to have the SK-60s do the freighter attack? We aren't getting paid for that half and the Gripens are not nearly as expendable. As far as I know, the freighters are sneaking through with normal civilian traffic so they aren't exactly defended by a carrier group.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:14
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Soup Inspector posted:You know what? Sod it, put me down for this option too. The sheer diversity of the Frogfoot's armaments are hard to beat, and even the complication of the supply lines is arguably an advantage (i.e. proofing us against a supplier shutting us off). Two reasons: 1. We are still a fairly small outfit and being flexible is what we should focus on. 2. Having more viable aircrafts in case we have to conduct emergency scrambles.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:16
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chitoryu12 posted:Can we try out our SK60s on the primary mission? With MANPADS limited, the environment should be a bit more permissive (especially if a Gripen or two run support to bomb AAA positions). Yeah give those guys some time in the lime light! Also I would like to have 1 RF-4E. the sensor suit could realy help us in BDA and finding targets like the freighters and what not. Stago Lego fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 17:31
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Proposal: I support this. Yooper posted:Unless I hear any motions otherwise I'll proceed with 2 FA-50's, 4 Phantoms, 2 UAV's. Call it another 6 hours or so. I also support this.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:33
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Note: Distance to the target frieghters is 1400 nm if we dont pass through Burmese airspace. Thats more than double even our lightest loads of Gripens. I'm not sure that we can even get a single plane down there with only one tanker, I'm not sure how underway refueling works.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:38
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Here's a visual. I'll try to do stuff like this in the future to simplify things. Then, after the vote is done, we can wiggle details like adding a bird or customizing.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:40
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My preference is B or Phantoms Galore (my actual preference is a modified 6 plane buy of phantoms with nothing else except maybe two drones, but I really don't want to get into Fractal Type Hell). The phantoms become more useful the more we buy because a decent sortie size on demand becomes much more likely (8 tails buys 4+ working much more frequently than 4 tails buys 2 working, and 2 tails is basically a lottery ticket for all the good it does if you don't feel like flying one tail 32% of the time and not flying 4% of the time). I'm not sure we need all 8, but it fills a solid role for a reasonable price. They'd be useful this run, and if we need to actually send a strike package their speed is a big asset.KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Proposal: How many anti-ship missiles go on a Gripen? I'd rather not demand a 100% rate of sinking from each missile, and with all the support we're putting up, one more Gripen isn't that expensive. Also, 1 AA Gripen is a weird intermediary that can't really tangle with a significant enemy force, but probably a reasonable idea if we want a bit of cover in case there's a reason why the sprint out is going badly. Also, do we know if there's any chance of Myanmarese intervention in Tibet after we attack the ships? Basically I'm echoing this proposal but with one more anti-ship Gripen and keeping the tanker and AWACS at extreme radar range at the closest. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 17:42
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Not sure if you're tallying previous votes but put me in for Option Phantom-Frog. I think it gives us a well rounded package with tons of CAS options and some BVR with the Phantoms. It also leaves us with ~$50 Million left over for munitions and future aircraft/SAM/Naval purchases. I think blowing nearly our entire budget in one round will severely limit us to be adaptable in the near future.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:46
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Going to do a retcon on the mission. India will provide tankers inside of Indian Airspace.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:52
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nothing to seehere posted:Note: Distance to the target frieghters is 1400 nm if we dont pass through Burmese airspace. Thats more than double even our lightest loads of Gripens. I'm not sure that we can even get a single plane down there with only one tanker, I'm not sure how underway refueling works. We can keep them up for a fair old while with our KC-135 topping them up every so often if we also have three drop tanks per Gripen. They're the only option for that job, to be honest. I'd suggest the KC-135 and two Gripens are used for the run down south, with a pair of LGBs, a pair of Meteors and 3 tanks. That should be enough to get them back and should be enough to deal with any Burmese counter to our operation. The other work is SK60 fodder, our pilots should try to attack enemy air defences first to take advantage of the element of surprise.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:52
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Yooper posted:Going to do a retcon on the mission. India will provide tankers inside of Indian Airspace. Would this allow something like an underway refuel of our tanker to get it sitting full in the middle of the Bay of Bengal with the AWACS as well as topping off the strike package right before it goes into the Bay?
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Apr 5, 2017 17:55
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I'm going to vote for Option Phantom-Frog. It'll be nice to have those Phantoms and the SU-25T is going to be great for our ground strikes.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:56
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I'm Option Phantom Frog, it seems to provide a reasonable balance between capability and affordability.
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Apr 5, 2017 17:57
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Is there a time limit on the CAS operations, or can we like kick in the door and let the SK's do their thing, then RTB and stock up with more explodey things and do it again? Repeat until everything not wearing an Indian flag is dead.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:00
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Crazycryodude posted:Is there a time limit on the CAS operations, or can we like kick in the door and let the SK's do their thing, then RTB and stock up with more explodey things and do it again? Repeat until everything not wearing an Indian flag is dead. worth thinking about aircraft sortie rates (aka quick turnaround) if hot rearming of aircraft is desired
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Apr 5, 2017 18:04
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I'm not a huge fan of any of these procurement plans. The closest would be buy it all but drop the FA-50s for 3 more F-4s. I like the RF-4, and the UAVs, more intel assets are always good. And since Yooper has said we'll be able to acquire munitions fairly reliably, the frogfoots are also a good buy for us. I don't see much use for the FA-50s if he have F-4 and Frogfoot bomb trucks though. Speaking of bomb trucks, we should try to get our hands on a real bomber, if we can.Quinntan posted:I'd suggest the KC-135 and two Gripens are used for the run down south, with a pair of LGBs, a pair of Meteors and 3 tanks. That should be enough to get them back and should be enough to deal with any Burmese counter to our operation. This plan sounds good to me. Perhaps have some more grips kick in the door with standoff weapons to knock out AAA, then send in the SK60s to mop up?
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Apr 5, 2017 18:06
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xthetenth posted:My preference is B or Phantoms Galore (my actual preference is a modified 6 plane buy of phantoms with nothing else except maybe two drones, but I really don't want to get into Fractal Type Hell). The phantoms become more useful the more we buy because a decent sortie size on demand becomes much more likely (8 tails buys 4+ working much more frequently than 4 tails buys 2 working, and 2 tails is basically a lottery ticket for all the good it does if you don't feel like flying one tail 32% of the time and not flying 4% of the time). I'm not sure we need all 8, but it fills a solid role for a reasonable price. They'd be useful this run, and if we need to actually send a strike package their speed is a big asset. Phantoms Galore, but ultimately I agree that 6 is better than 8, as it's just enough to guarantee we'll have a four-ship available most of the time. But following Yooper, I also think it's best to hash out numbers once we have agreed to a general plan. Otherwise we'll never reach a decision! I'm against the proposals for us to buy a bunch of different airframes--let's keep it simple! The F-4s are great multiroles, and will serve us well until we're big enough to need more specialized assets. Right now, I think our biggest gaps are ECM and SEAD; we should keep some cash in reserve until that capability becomes available. Tetraptous fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 18:06
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I'm kind of split between Option B and Phantom-Frog (since we'd need to buy 4 F-4's to have 2 reliably), but I'm not that keen on the F-4 option anyways, so I say Phantom-Frog. I guess if the Indians are supplying us, it's kind of a moot point, but if we made a dash through Myanmar on the return, how close of a call would it actually be? Looks like somewhere around 150 nm or less of airspace to violate. Sittwe would be the place they'd come from, and it's kind of right in the path back. Kangra fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 18:07
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Nuts to this, when all else fails go maximum Ace Combat. Buy it all.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:07
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Option B, just because it has us wasting less money on Phantoms
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Apr 5, 2017 18:09
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The problem I have with the Su-25s is that a lot of their stuff requires the aircraft to keep flying towards a target to keep it tracked. This makes them a lot more likely to get shot up by enemy short-range air defences such as Iglas and even AAA. This isn't such a huge deal if our target is stationery, such as the bridge and arms dump we were dealing with last time, but if we should have to take on a moving target, this is a major disadvantage. At least the Mavericks on the Phantom and Gripen are fire-and-forget. While I was posting, someone suggested we get a "real bomber" at some point. Phantoms can carry some 18,000lbs of bombs, around what a B-29 could carry. Even not-so-modern jets can carry a shitload of ordinance. Quinntan fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 18:09
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Gonna vote for Option B. I don't want us splitting supply lines between Warsaw Pact and NATO when we've got such a big stockpile of NATO gear already.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:15
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Quinntan posted:We can keep them up for a fair old while with our KC-135 topping them up every so often if we also have three drop tanks per Gripen. They're the only option for that job, to be honest. I'm down with this but I think we should use ASMs not LGBs on the boats. I'll change my vote to buy all the F4s.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:24
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The ASMs cost $1.5 million each vs $22k for GBU-12D/B.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:26
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Gotta put in my vote for Option Phantom Frog.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:28
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xthetenth posted:Would this allow something like an underway refuel of our tanker to get it sitting full in the middle of the Bay of Bengal with the AWACS as well as topping off the strike package right before it goes into the Bay? Yes. We can set it to allow Tankers to Refuel Tankers. Crazycryodude posted:Is there a time limit on the CAS operations, or can we like kick in the door and let the SK's do their thing, then RTB and stock up with more explodey things and do it again? Repeat until everything not wearing an Indian flag is dead. We can absolutely fly till we have to peel the pilots out of the cockpits. Like Baloogan said we can set up for quick turnaround. You've pretty much got sun-up to sun-down to run CAS with the SK60B's.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:33
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glynnenstein posted:The ASMs cost $1.5 million each vs $22k for GBU-12D/B. Don't know about you but if we spend several hundred grand worth of flying time to go find some boats I'd like to make sure they end up well dead.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:36
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Honestly there's no real reason to use the RBS-15s. We're going to need to confirm that we're launching at the right ship anyways, and we'll be far enough away from possible MANPADs to stay away from their defences. I don't remember off-hand, but doesn't the Gripen have wingtip pylons? If so we should give the anti-ship strike pair a pair of IRIS-Ts too. Nevermind, we're out of pylons for that idea.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:37
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Quinntan posted:Honestly there's no real reason to use the RBS-15s. We're going to need to confirm that we're launching at the right ship anyways, and we'll be far enough away from possible MANPADs to stay away from their defences. i wanna play with the toys I'm fine with using LGBs, ok.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:37
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Quinntan posted:Honestly there's no real reason to use the RBS-15s. We're going to need to confirm that we're launching at the right ship anyways, and we'll be far enough away from possible MANPADs to stay away from their defences. Every Gripen loadout carries at least 2 IRIS-T's.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:39
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Save the ASM's for if (when) we have to start killing properly armored/defended ships. The GBU's are fine for cracking open lovely civilian freighters, and maybe even better because larger warheads, overpenetration, etc. etc.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:45
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Yeah, but I was suggesting three tanks, two LGBs, two Meteors and two IRIS-Ts on an aircraft that has only seven pylons. OK, new idea, four Gripens for the southern bit of piracy, two with three tanks, two Meteors and two IRIS-Ts, two with three tanks, two LGBs and two IRIS-Ts. The A2A Grips are on watch for Burmese intervention while the two LGB Grips bomb the poo poo out of the freighter. God this would be so much easier if we'd bought F-16s.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:47
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I choose Phantom Frog. It even sounds like a Metal Gear codename. I would like to suggest to add a RF-4E to this for recon. My experience with the game taught me that mobile stuff like SAM's and such are very hard to find without these kind of planes.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:49
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Of those four options I'll go with PHANTOMS GALORE
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Apr 5, 2017 18:51
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Quinntan posted:Yeah, but I was suggesting three tanks, two LGBs, two Meteors and two IRIS-Ts on an aircraft that has only seven pylons. I support this.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:51
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Voting for Option B.
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Apr 5, 2017 18:55
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