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Agean90 posted:ayo gently caress the system
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Apr 5, 2017 22:02
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DreamShipWrecked posted:All I was saying is that playing the rape card in order to make you sympathize with the character is depressingly common and does a disservice to the character. She might get fleshed out later, and that would be cool, and I hope it does. the main issue some of us have, at least I do, is that typically when a story 'plays the rape card' it depowers a woman so a male character can save her, or it's somehow done in some hosed up way to 'take down' a powerful character or the like. With Ann it's the literal opposite through the entire castle, where her male friends are constantly all 'hey dude you ok with these dick monsters aiming for you and his creepy sexy cat girl puppet you and all' and her whole thing is (arguably unwisely) compressing and powering through for the sake of stopping him from victimizing others like her.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:04
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Endorph posted:they're playing the rape card because it's an issue in real life that teenagers deal with by the hundreds of thousands every day, you loving maroon And actual teenagers can't go into the shadow realm to make their abusers repent for it, they often have to live without justice for the rest of their lives. Maybe having a "rape is real" back story isn't the best in a game where you can kill God with Pokemon if you are spunky enough.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:06
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DreamShipWrecked posted:And actual teenagers can't go into the shadow realm to make their abusers repent for it, they have to live without justice for the rest of their lives. Maybe having a "rape is real" back story isn't the best in a game where you can kill God with Pokemon if you are spunky enough. So what would be acceptable, paranormal stories only?
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Apr 5, 2017 22:07
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Meme Emulator posted:Derail: What is 'rigging' because I keep hearing that as the reason why ME:As animations look so bad. Is it like meshing together the mocap data with the models? What happened with andromeda, i'm guessing, is that they didn't clean up their mocap data thoroughly, or applied the data with miscalibrated weights, or were really shoddy with integrating prerecorded mocap data with the procedural stuff that plays when interacting with the game world, or most likely all of the above. The Symbol at posted:This is what happened when I tried to learn Rootmotion FinalIK and Puppetmaster. MyLoathsomeCowboy fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 22:07
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Meme Emulator posted:Derail: What is 'rigging' because I keep hearing that as the reason why ME:As animations look so bad. Is it like meshing together the mocap data with the models? Imagine a skeleton inside a 3d model that the skin is bound to that dictates which joints can bend and how far and how they move other joints and etc. Then when an animator wants to move that model around they just move that skeleton. efb
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Apr 5, 2017 22:08
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DreamShipWrecked posted:And actual teenagers can't go into the shadow realm to make their abusers repent for it, they often have to live without justice for the rest of their lives. Maybe having a "rape is real" back story isn't the best in a game where you can kill God with Pokemon if you are spunky enough. the whole point of the persona series is that the characters have real life teenager problems in addition to demon problems.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:09
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DreamShipWrecked posted:And actual teenagers can't go into the shadow realm to make their abusers repent for it, they often have to live without justice for the rest of their lives. Maybe having a "rape is real" back story isn't the best in a game where you can kill God with Pokemon if you are spunky enough. Somtimes people who have bad things happen to them take empowerment from fantasy. It is possible to argue that fantasy belittles those things or doesn't take them seriously enough but that doesn't mean that it has no value at all. The entire point of P5 is that it is a power fantasy of downtrodden and oppressed people getting the chance to act out in a way they could not without their powers. it is pure power fantasy but that isn't a bad thing.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:09
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Meme Emulator posted:So what would be acceptable, paranormal stories only? My point is using such a hot and such deeply scarring issue in that way denegrates the actual pain. In Persona 4 if they had never gone into the shadow world to face their demons they would have been unhappy, but ultimately they would have *lived*. Here it feels a lot like "you can get over your rape if you believe in yourself! Yeah!" ImpAtom posted:Somtimes people who have bad things happen to them take empowerment from fantasy. It is possible to argue that fantasy belittles those things or doesn't take them seriously enough but that doesn't mean that it has no value at all. I'm not saying that it can have no value when properly handled, but busting out a dominatrix Pokemon to electrocute your tormenter is pretty shallow
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Apr 5, 2017 22:09
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DreamShipWrecked posted:My point is using such a hot and such deeply scarring issue in that way denegrates the actual pain. In Persona 4 if they had never gone into the shadow world to face their demons they would have been unhappy, but ultimately they would have *lived*. Here it feels a lot like "you can get over your rape if you believe in yourself! Yeah!" Only if you're completely ignoring the actual context, dialogue and plot. The plot is instead "this is awful, horrible and terrible and it thrives on people ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist."
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Apr 5, 2017 22:10
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DreamShipWrecked posted:My point is using such a hot and such deeply scarring issue in that way denegrates the actual pain. In Persona 4 if they had never gone into the shadow world to face their demons they would have been unhappy, but ultimately they would have *lived*. Here it feels a lot like "you can get over your rape if you believe in yourself! Yeah!" Well shes not busting out her persona to fry her tormentor, shes doing it to fry an evil apparition of her tormentor. I think thats why the persona stories work despite your complaint. Id probably be saying the same thing you were if Ann awoke her persona in the real world when cornered by Kamoshida and agi'ed him there and ran off but the metaverse/shadow world lets the power fantasy work without being stupid.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:14
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DreamShipWrecked posted:My point is using such a hot and such deeply scarring issue in that way denegrates the actual pain. In Persona 4 if they had never gone into the shadow world to face their demons they would have been unhappy, but ultimately they would have *lived*. Here it feels a lot like "you can get over your rape if you believe in yourself! Yeah!" A) allowing themselves to be angry and frustrated B) establishing a support network C) getting themselves into a healthier situation where the abuse cannot be repeated sooooo... i mean, hm. acting like rape victims never heal or regain control of their lives is horrific, my dude. and im sure there's a lot of victims out there who'd love to beat up their abuser with the help of some cool friends and make them confess to the cops.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:14
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DreamShipWrecked posted:I'm not saying that it can have no value when properly handled, but busting out a dominatrix Pokemon to electrocute your tormenter is pretty shallow Okay. And? Yes, a lot of power fantasy is shallow. Someone looking for emotional catharsis is not always looking for an in-depth and rational story. Superheroes, who have absurd powers and can stop bad people without harming them, are similarly shallow but none the less have a sense of empowerment and catharsis that makes them important to people. An anime character getting superpowers and killing a horrifying shallow clone of themselves with a giant sword before beating up their tormentor may not be realistic but its purpose is emotional, not logical. It is possible for it to be disrespectful but you haven't argued how it is. P5 does very little to devalue sexual abuse victims and instead treats it as disgusting, horrific and awful and acknowledges that many people are complacent in covering it up or supporting it through inaction. It isn't the ultimate discussion of abuse but acting like it's not even trying and is being lazy is really ridiculous.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:15
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DreamShipWrecked posted:And actual teenagers can't go into the shadow realm to make their abusers repent for it, they often have to live without justice for the rest of their lives. Maybe having a "rape is real" back story isn't the best in a game where you can kill God with Pokemon if you are spunky enough. I don't know dude can't you say that about Ryuji and the MC as well? If you're abused and beaten by an authority figure you typically don't get the chance to beat the crap out of him with your pirate skeleton, and if you are unjustly committed of a crime you didn't commit due to people in power manipulating things and letting awful people get away with whatever the gently caress they want you don't often get the chance to become a master thief vigilante and right the wrongs of the world. I think you're just not into the concept of the game at all.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:18
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ImpAtom posted:Only if you're completely ignoring the actual context, dialogue and plot. The plot is instead "this is awful, horrible and terrible and it thrives on people ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist." That is more a comment on the power of Fame, though, in the same way that the MC's back story is based off him assaulting a high ranking person of some sort. If it had been a normal teacher she may have been able to report it, but the whole point of the first section is the idea that his fame went overboard. They could have taken out the sexual assault entirely and stuck with the volleyball scene and it wouldn't have changed the scene all that much. It just feels very token. I'm probably just not explaining it well, but I feel that people know where I am coming from. Except for Endorph, who is a massive cock. At any rate, I'll drop it.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:18
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DreamShipWrecked posted:All I was saying is that playing the rape card in order to make you sympathize with the character is depressingly common and does a disservice to the character. She might get fleshed out later, and that would be cool, and I hope it does. Well is it even worth having the conversation if we don't know the full context of the character and events and how they play out in totality?
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Apr 5, 2017 22:19
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do you even know what 'token' means or do you just know that it's one of the five words of power that will summon wokexodia, the argument winner
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Apr 5, 2017 22:19
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DreamShipWrecked posted:My point is using such a hot and such deeply scarring issue in that way denegrates the actual pain. In Persona 4 if they had never gone into the shadow world to face their demons they would have been unhappy, but ultimately they would have *lived*. Here it feels a lot like "you can get over your rape if you believe in yourself! Yeah!" Im pretty happy that I can play Persona 5 and enjoy it. So far ann is awesome! If you want more inclusvity and diversity in gaming expect this stuff to come up. It happens in baby steps, its not like we can flick a switch and suddenly everyone will get "diversity".
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Apr 5, 2017 22:19
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DreamShipWrecked posted:That is more a comment on the power of Fame, though, in the same way that the MC's back story is based off him assaulting a high ranking person of some sort. If it had been a normal teacher she may have been able to report it, but the whole point of the first section is the idea that his fame went overboard. They could have taken out the sexual assault entirely and stuck with the volleyball scene and it wouldn't have changed the scene all that much. ... Are you serious? 
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Apr 5, 2017 22:20
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ImpAtom posted:... Are you serious? In what way would the story of the first boss have changed if he was "only" torturing his students and beating the poo poo out of them?
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Apr 5, 2017 22:21
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Tae posted:None of you even met the yugioh confident yet Someone spoil me on the earliest I can start this Confidant.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:21
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in what way would the story change if you completely changed the story like stories aren't just collections of things that happen. they have hooks and concepts and poo poo. the same physical things could have happened with that change but the entire tone and theme of the story would be different. you could make everyone into transformers and the story could still be written exactly the same way, but the themes and concepts would change drastically. this is writing 101.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:21
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Electric Phantasm posted:Someone spoil me on the earliest I can start this Confidant. There is an OP full of information like this it's quite good.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:22
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DreamShipWrecked posted:In what way would the story of the first boss have changed if he was "only" torturing his students and beating the poo poo out of them? A poo poo ton lmao are you serious
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Apr 5, 2017 22:23
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DreamShipWrecked posted:In what way would the story of the first boss have changed if he was "only" torturing his students and beating the poo poo out of them? ... literally everything? Have you finished the first story?
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Apr 5, 2017 22:23
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the party would still go into a palace and beat a guy up, so that makes it exactly the same, actually
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Apr 5, 2017 22:24
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The story in question was basically cleanly ripped from a real headline and that you find it shocking and distasteful speaks less to any hamhandedness on the part of the writers and more to your own naivete
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Apr 5, 2017 22:24
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DreamShipWrecked posted:It just feels very token. I'm probably just not explaining it well, but I feel that people know where I am coming from. Except for Endorph, who is a massive cock. At any rate, I'll drop it. I have no interest in participating in this argument but as a third party observer I have to say that I don't think I've seen a single person agree with you in any of it except for a very vague and general acknowledgement that this video game is not the final ultimate say on portraying sexual assault in fiction.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:25
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I'm not gonna scroll through the thread because I've avoided as much coverage as possible and wanna go in totally loving blind to fumble my way to victory and friendship, is there a fix for the hosed up overscan that pushes subtitles and UI elements off the edges of my screen in just this game and nothing else I ever do/watch/play on this goddamn console or am i going to have to not bother playing it until they maybe patch it? Not a great start 
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Apr 5, 2017 22:25
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a "story" is understood through "interpretation" based on the "associations" one has made with the "events" presented. different "events" have different "associations" and thus favor a different "interpretation".
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Apr 5, 2017 22:25
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DreamShipWrecked posted:That is more a comment on the power of Fame, though, in the same way that the MC's back story is based off him assaulting a high ranking person of some sort. If it had been a normal teacher she may have been able to report it, but the whole point of the first section is the idea that his fame went overboard. They could have taken out the sexual assault entirely and stuck with the volleyball scene and it wouldn't have changed the scene all that much. Perhaps it is you that is the massive cock? Something to think about.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:26
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Moldy Taxes posted:I think Atlus shot themselves in the foot with the whole "don't spoil anything past 7/7!" thing. I wouldn't have thought about it before but now that I know it's pretty obvious the interrogation scenes take place there. You are actually wrong on many measures. Keep playing the game, nerd.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:26
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History Comes Inside! posted:I'm not gonna scroll through the thread because I've avoided as much coverage as possible and wanna go in totally loving blind to fumble my way to victory and friendship, is there a fix for the hosed up overscan that pushes subtitles and UI elements off the edges of my screen in just this game and nothing else I ever do/watch/play on this goddamn console or am i going to have to not bother playing it until they maybe patch it?
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Apr 5, 2017 22:26
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I'm afraid you won't be able to get the Kamoshida storyline until you have at least Rank 3 Understanding...
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Apr 5, 2017 22:26
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I think this thread would probably be better if no one acknowledged DreamShipWrecked's posts anymore. It's a lost cause and extremely stupid conversation.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:27
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Saint Freak posted:There is an OP full of information like this it's quite good. Oh drat I'm so used to OPs just being summary so I skipped it, God Bless Baal. Also Kawakami is a Confidant yesssss.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:28
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:I have no interest in participating in this argument but as a third party observer I have to say that I don't think I've seen a single person agree with you in any of it except for a very vague and general acknowledgement that this video game is not the final ultimate say on portraying sexual assault in fiction. I mean I'm okay with that? I'm attempting to say that the game might not be mature enough in style to deal with that kind of situation, especially in the way that it did, which I think is a valid point. If people think that this game that is about social commentary is somehow "above" being commented on, well, god bless.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:31
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Endorph posted:do you even know what 'token' means or do you just know that it's one of the five words of power that will summon wokexodia, the argument winner Wokexodia...PONTIFICATE
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Apr 5, 2017 22:32
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Oxxidation posted:Wokexodia...PONTIFICATE
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Apr 5, 2017 22:32
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ntan1 posted:You are actually wrong on many measures. Keep playing the game, nerd. drat!!!
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Apr 5, 2017 22:33
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