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Manatee Cannon posted:I can't believe spider-man is a squirrel girl villain He's actually a Howard the Duck villain, Squirrel Girl just borrows him.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:09
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ImpAtom posted:Answer: Move everyone's villains to Squirrel Girl permanently. Then she will either beat them or turn them into unicorns, whichever comes first. Then all the other heroes can make up new and better villains that aren't mired in nostalgia or Brand New Day syndrome.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:10
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evilmiera posted:Move everyone's villains to Squirrel Girl permanently. Then she will either beat them or turn them into unicorns, whichever comes first. Then all the other heroes can make up new and better villains that aren't mired in nostalgia or Brand New Day syndrome. Yeah...oof. Did any of the Brand New Day villains actually stick other than Overdrive?
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Mar 21, 2017 22:16
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Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah...oof. Did any of the Brand New Day villains actually stick other than Overdrive? They are half the reason I stopped reading the comic, so I couldn't say. Mister Negative was around until 2015 but I'm not sure he's been in anything after that. Paper Doll appeared in like... one story and that was about it? Freak's last appearance was over 70 issues past I think. If I am forgetting someone, then good.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:25
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Mister Negative was in the books recently "Spider-Man's villains are bad actually" is a take so awful I don't even know how to approach it
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Mar 21, 2017 22:26
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evilmiera posted:They are half the reason I stopped reading the comic, so I couldn't say. Mister Negative was around until 2015 but I'm not sure he's been in anything after that. Paper Doll appeared in like... one story and that was about it? Freak's last appearance was over 70 issues past I think. If I am forgetting someone, then good. Mr Negative popped up in the most recent run of Amazing.
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Mar 21, 2017 22:26
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Blockhouse posted:Mister Negative was in the books recently They are bad. They have neat designs but as characters they leave a lot to be desired.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:19
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Speaking of terrible Spider-Man villains, have any of the Enforcers popped up in comics in the last 2 years?
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Mar 22, 2017 05:48
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There are technically two Oxes (Oxen?) the original one who died in a 1970s Daredevil comic, then his brother who showed up a few years later and did the whole "I'm going to honor my brother's memory by dressing just like him and joining his gang and you can all just call me Ox" thing. Years later the first Ox was brought back in Howard Mackie Spider-Man (he didn't explode, or maybe he exploded but got better) and ever since then it's not really clear if anyone realizes there are two Oxen out there. Anyway, one Ox showed up in Spider-Man/Deadpool and got killed. Montana got killed off early on in Slott's Spider-Man BIG TIME run, but both Montana and an Ox were shown to be back in THE CLONE CONSPIRACY and presumably turned into Carrion zombies and then clone dust by the end of the story, but you never know... Meanwhile, no one is stupid enough to kill off a legend like Fancy Dan. Then again, when he shows up in Villain Crowd Scenes (most prominently/recently in the Civil War II Kingpin mini and Uncanny Avengers when they go to Bagalia) he never really does anything, but he's also flanked by a Montana and an Ox. Maybe Fancy Dan's fanciness extends to having a really specific dress code/skillset for his partners. Maybe there have been DOZENS of Oxen and Montanas and he gets really weird about having them dress just so.
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Mar 22, 2017 06:16
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evilmiera posted:If every single one of Spider-man's 60s villains just mysteriously died and never came back I would be a happy reader. Osborn especially. Osborn should've stayed dead. Peter had more than enough Goblins to deal with even when both Harry and Norman were buried. And I really don't think we've gotten many good stories out of the "evil mastermind Norman Osborn" retcon when it turned out he hadn't died after all. I mean I guess it was fun when he was leader of the Thunderbolts, and some of Dark Reign was fun, even though that got old pretty fast, but those weren't really Spider-man stories. You're crazy about the others, though. Spider-man has some of the best classic villains of any character, the only other superhero who competes is Batman, and he only wins by sheer volume. evilmiera posted:Except Rhino. You better not kill Rhino now that he's been in Squirrel Girl. I'm almost certain that Rhino is from the 70s.
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Mar 22, 2017 06:25
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Rhino is comfortably 1960s, he first appeared in ASM #41 in August 1966. He's post-Ditko so some sticklers would put him outside of the "original classic" Spider-Man villains, or in some sort of "the 1960s didn't start until 1965" style sliding cultural timescale, though. If we're going by cover date, the "last 1960s Spider-Man villain" was Prowler, or if we're going by on-sale date, Kangaroo just barely sneaks in.
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Mar 22, 2017 06:34
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Weren't the Enforcers recently in Howard the Duck or Squirrel Girl?
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Mar 22, 2017 06:53
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CharlestheHammer posted:They are bad. Yeah. As mentioned before, Norman worked in Thunderbolts , almost perfectly as just "smart and ruthless director slowly going insane" , because you knew things were going to go really badly when he finally snapped and his descent to madness while showing an exterior of calm cool was a good contrast. The reader knew he was going to break and were kept on edge as to when and what would set him off. And it was glorious when he finally did. But that was really the end of his story, which is my main problem with recurring villains over decades. It isn't just that they tend to age badly except in rare cases, keeping them on past the ends of their natural arcs means you are left with a sense of stasis. Especially when you also regress the hero and their maturity at the same time.
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Mar 22, 2017 14:07
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Is this the part where I rant that Pete should have been the one to take Norman down in Siege? Because Pete should have been the one to take Norman down in Siege. gently caress Tony.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:28
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JohnnyCanuck posted:Is this the part where I rant that Pete should have been the one to take Norman down in Siege? If the resurrection and recharacterization of Osborn was to make him a villain for the wider Marvel U than it stands to reason that Spider-Man shouldn't always be the go-to for solving an Osborn problem.
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Mar 28, 2017 19:47
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I like Doc Ock as Spider-Man's arch-enemy better than the Green Goblin. I think a lot of Osborn being Peter's worst enemy is retroactively applied and if you go back and read a lot of those Silver Age and Bronze Age issues, Doc Ock is still treated as the "main" bad guy. I'm actually struggling to think of Spider-Man villains who were really good and had real staying power who were created after the 1960s. There's Hobgoblin, maybe Hammerhead and possibly the Jackal if you count him separately from Miles Warren. Who else?
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Mar 28, 2017 20:05
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Wheat Loaf posted:I like Doc Ock as Spider-Man's arch-enemy better than the Green Goblin. I think a lot of Osborn being Peter's worst enemy is retroactively applied and if you go back and read a lot of those Silver Age and Bronze Age issues, Doc Ock is still treated as the "main" bad guy. I mean you may not think of him as very good but it's pretty goddamn hard to say Venom didn't have staying power.
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Mar 28, 2017 20:25
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Wheat Loaf posted:I like Doc Ock as Spider-Man's arch-enemy better than the Green Goblin. I think a lot of Osborn being Peter's worst enemy is retroactively applied and if you go back and read a lot of those Silver Age and Bronze Age issues, Doc Ock is still treated as the "main" bad guy. Goblins as a whole are arguably Spider-Man's greatest villain, not any single Goblin. Norman's legacy in other words (until he came back) because Harry became one and because it spawned Hobgoblin.
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Mar 28, 2017 20:34
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JohnnyCanuck posted:Is this the part where I rant that Pete should have been the one to take Norman down in Siege? Tony knocked out the armor, Pete took down Norman himself.
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Mar 28, 2017 21:10
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Rhyno posted:Tony knocked out the armor, Pete took down Norman himself. He punched him when he was already defeated and just standing there ranting. Wheat Loaf posted:I'm actually struggling to think of Spider-Man villains who were really good and had real staying power who were created after the 1960s. There's Hobgoblin, maybe Hammerhead and possibly the Jackal if you count him separately from Miles Warren. Who else? A lot of interesting villains were created in the 80s and 90s, but by the late 90s the crop of nostalgic writers was coming in and the old standbys became the main deal. It's kinda like the problem of how no x-men invented after Claremont had any staying power. Just off the top of my head, Vermin is a really interesting villain, although I guess he's technically a Captain America one first, even if his most memorable stories were Spider-man ones. Another issue is that a lot of his 80s and 90s villains died in their first appearance. Sin-Eater for example. Mister Negative is probably his only modern villain that isn't a garbage fire, but I feel like he's pretty much fallen into obscurity these past few years. E: Morbius is 1971, and he's a pretty memorable and usually good character, even if he's been an anti-hero most of the time. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Mar 28, 2017 |
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Mar 28, 2017 21:11
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JohnnyCanuck posted:Is this the part where I rant that Pete should have been the one to take Norman down in Siege? Didn't he? I remember something from around then when Peter clowned Norman. Like a super definitive win.
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Mar 29, 2017 04:35
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Codependent Poster posted:Didn't he? I remember something from around then when Peter clowned Norman. Like a super definitive win. Nope.
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Mar 29, 2017 11:31
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Codependent Poster posted:Didn't he? I remember something from around then when Peter clowned Norman. Like a super definitive win. There was the issue of the List (written by Slott ) where Peter steals a hard drive of all sort of super evil stuff Norman was doing. It was supposed to be the beginning of the end and was supposed to pressure Norman into invading Asguard. Bendis of course ignored it.
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Mar 29, 2017 13:38
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The Question IRL posted:There was the issue of the List (written by Slott ) where Peter steals a hard drive of all sort of super evil stuff Norman was doing. Bendis was just ahead of the curve on ignoring Slott. Which is a great idea.
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Mar 29, 2017 18:55
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Yeah honestly, while it's dumb that Spider-man basically played no part in Dark Reign and Siege, Slott was just trying to do his usual thing where he tries to crowbar his book into mattering for whatever big event's going on. It's like when he kept trying to act like his nonsense with the interdimensional spider-stuff was part of all the universal collapse stuff Hickman was doing.
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Mar 29, 2017 21:38
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Wheat Loaf posted:I'm actually struggling to think of Spider-Man villains who were really good and had real staying power who were created after the 1960s. There's Hobgoblin, maybe Hammerhead and possibly the Jackal if you count him separately from Miles Warren. Who else? Black Cat. Punisher, maybe.
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Mar 30, 2017 14:32
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Wheat Loaf posted:I like Doc Ock as Spider-Man's arch-enemy better than the Green Goblin. I think a lot of Osborn being Peter's worst enemy is retroactively applied and if you go back and read a lot of those Silver Age and Bronze Age issues, Doc Ock is still treated as the "main" bad guy. Depends what you mean by staying power. Do they have to appear regularly? Because someone like Cardiac seemed destined to remain a relic of Bagley's run on Amazing back in the early 90s but he was used around the time of Superior Spider-Man. Speaking of the 90s, TV animated series boosted Hydro-Man's profile and he's made a decent number of appearances in Spider-Man and FF comics since then. The 80s gangmembers have lasted pretty well, too. You mentioned Hammerhead but Tombstone, too. The Rose hung around for a while, like I remember him being a part of Spider-Hunt. Was Spot already mentioned?
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Mar 30, 2017 14:53
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Spider-Man's art took a turn for the weird. Everybody has chunky necks now, even poor Miles's mom.
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Apr 6, 2017 04:45
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Molecule Man didn't bring Rio back for Miles and his Dad to mess with her like this. 
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Apr 6, 2017 06:03
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:Molecule Man didn't bring Rio back for Miles and his Dad to mess with her like this. "I'll just tell everyone you cheated on me" is epic levels of bad writing.
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Apr 6, 2017 06:08
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Rhyno posted:"I'll just tell everyone you cheated on me" is epic levels of bad writing. I'm still haunted by that one interview Bendis gave where he mentioned being done with Miles but being in the writer's retreat and digging the post secret wars ideas too much to let him go. In a better world, Robbie Thompson is writing Spider-man and it just concluded a Silk crossover where they talk about how important and good family is.
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Apr 6, 2017 06:10
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I'm haunted by that now, since this is the first time I've heard of it. I dream of a brighter day.
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Apr 6, 2017 06:46
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I love Bendis, I do but so often it feels like he's totally lost touch with the fun parts of Miles' character. I do not have hope for Riri in the long run.
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Apr 6, 2017 06:48
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Miles has fun parts of his character?
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Apr 6, 2017 06:52
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Pureauthor posted:Miles has fun parts of his character? Ultimate Miles was fantastic.
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Apr 6, 2017 06:54
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Rhyno posted:Ultimate Miles was fantastic. He was at least until we started to see the same symptoms of what his 616 book has become manifest with "here's Miles' dad's incredibly uninteresting backstory!" "here's an arc where Miles is basically just kind of sitting on the sidelines watching everything happen!" "Here's a tough fight that Miles is going to instantly solve with the venom sting!"
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Apr 6, 2017 06:55
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I think part of the problem with miles in the ultimate universe was that after the peter stuff was over, bendis was rushing to get the deal with his dad and girlfriend in before the secret wars event. then civil war (which bendis wrote too, didn't he? so that's doubly his fault) seriously derailed the book at the same time as bendis recapped the dad stuff when it was incredibly unnecessary. events really hurt miles' story a lot and he's only just recently had the chance to recover ... of course, now we're trapped in a lame spider-gwen crossover while the dad storyline spins its wheels and there's still the problem of the venom blast being a poorly defined win button. plus a lot of the ultimate cast is either gone or taking a backseat to his new friends (why even have bombshell there if she's not allowed to do anything)
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Apr 6, 2017 07:11
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Also  at his dad's subplot being the biggest waste of time ever as of this issue.Just forever
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Apr 6, 2017 07:14
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I absolutely do not understand bendis' obsession with making people SHIELD agents it's a something he's used like five times in the past five years!
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Apr 6, 2017 07:40
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He probably has a major SHIELD event planned in the future that will unite all of these plots.
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Apr 6, 2017 08:11
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