Panfilo posted:

I was thinking it would be nice to eventually have Ungrim start in Karak Kadrin with a few modifications:

-Karak Kadrins special building allows you to recruit Slayers without needing armory (in that province) and the initial tier of the building has its price adjusted.

-Change Axe Lord to affect Slayers but not other basic units, basically the buff Slayers normally get via Grimnir's heirs (which no longer benefits Slayers at this point) . So you can improve the Slayers much earlier with him.

You could have a true Slayer army now, getting buffed up Slayers out much earlier. It'll be well suited to the enemies you'll face in the area, and you'll get to fight chaos much sooner.

Sasgrillo posted:

I'm holding out hope that the speculated Legendary Lord DLC is actually a thing because I really want Marius Leitdorf as an Empire LL. Also because I'm a sucker for black & gold color schemes and solar-themed sigils. That and working in Marius being a nutter while also the finest swordsmen in the Empire* and Averlands precarious borders would make for a very interesting alternate start for the Empire. Also half-lings .

For your viewing pleasure:


*disputed by Kurt Helborg

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I'm coming close to finishing my first Empire campaign after all this time, and I wish troops recruited in confederated provinces would keep their hometown colours and not adopt the standard Empire/Reikland look. I want my army to out-fabulous brett knights.

Sasgrillo posted:

I'm holding out hope that the speculated Legendary Lord DLC is actually a thing because I really want Marius Leitdorf as an Empire LL. Also because I'm a sucker for black & gold color schemes and solar-themed sigils. That and working in Marius being a nutter while also the finest swordsmen in the Empire* and Averlands precarious borders would make for a very interesting alternate start for the Empire. Also half-lings .

For your viewing pleasure:


*disputed by Kurt Helborg

Sasgrillo posted:

I'm holding out hope that the speculated Legendary Lord DLC is actually a thing because I really want Marius Leitdorf as an Empire LL. Also because I'm a sucker for black & gold color schemes and solar-themed sigils. That and working in Marius being a nutter while also the finest swordsmen in the Empire* and Averlands precarious borders would make for a very interesting alternate start for the Empire. Also half-lings .

For your viewing pleasure:


*disputed by Kurt Helborg

Panfilo posted:

I was thinking it would be nice to eventually have Ungrim start in Karak Kadrin with a few modifications:

-Karak Kadrins special building allows you to recruit Slayers without needing armory (in that province) and the initial tier of the building has its price adjusted.

-Change Axe Lord to affect Slayers but not other basic units, basically the buff Slayers normally get via Grimnir's heirs (which no longer benefits Slayers at this point) . So you can improve the Slayers much earlier with him.

You could have a true Slayer army now, getting buffed up Slayers out much earlier. It'll be well suited to the enemies you'll face in the area, and you'll get to fight chaos much sooner.

drat Dirty Ape posted:

Are you sure it's the chaos and not the underlying terrain (swamp, mountain, whatever)?

e: or maybe an enemy agent blocked you?

Gejnor posted:

Its ironic that you're mentioning this since i am sort of working on something like it RIGHT NOW, though not in Karak Kadrin.

Its in response to how good Grombrindal is, and im trying to make the other two lord choices of Ungrim and Thorgrim to be more interesting!

First up is Ungrim:



As you can see he gets a new Lord Effect, extra replenishment for slayers, to keep up with the lore that Slayers from all across karaz ankor are basically falling over eachother to get into his glorious Doom Seeking Venture.

Besides this ive also buffed his personal skills:


Slayer King will now grant Slayers in Ungrim's army 20% Ward Save, this is at Rank 3 so its something you've got to invest in and not just get for free. I couldn't get the flavour text to work but in essence the Runesmiths have granted the slayers who follow Ungrim directly special rune-ink so that they may last longer in battle and thus seek out a greater doom that will surely please Grimnir!

The other skills involve Ungrim's personal stats and things i feel hes lacking:


Hes sort of slow so i baked in a 15% battle speed for him via Slayer and Dragon Slayer felt a bit off with a meager +15 anti large for 3 skillpoints so i added in an extra Wound-Maker level of Weapon Strength.

I have not changed Daemon Slayer yet, but i think i will add in Weapon Strength that only affects Norscan and Chaos armies, exactly like the Greenskin one.

On to Thorgrim.

I wasn't sure what to do with Thorgrim at first, then i remembered in the lore hes supposed to be slightly unconventional in that he actually wants to make use of technology in gaining an upper hand for his people, so i decided to make him give some buffs to Gyros and Late tech units like Flame Cannons and Iron Drakes.

**** Important, Thorgrim is still a WIP and i do NOT want to make him OP, so values seen here are nowhere near final, right now they are more or less examples, especially in regards to the Flame Cannon buff you'll see here****



First up the new Lord Effects for Thorgrim. I added two of them and they are sort of a hint at what you 'should' use him for. +2 Ranks to Master Engineers simple yet good since it means you'll get more bang for your buck when you recruit engineers. Secondly, a powerful increase of Ammo to all Gyrocopters of all types. A 100% may seem much but honestly they shoot themselves dry before the match is over most times and their DPS, while not non-negliable, isn't big enough to cause them to be able to win on their own. They are also still vulnerable to the slightest of range damage and will go down quickly if you do not keep an eye on them. On the other hand this should make you WANT to get get Gyros in your Thorgrim games and make him stand out as a choice above Grombrindal in that regard.

Secondly i added a new unqiue skill for Thorgrim, and this is sort why i had to add a disclaimer since its kind of big on the values and im not quite done yet:


Basically the idea is that all the higher end ranged tech units that use machines or contraptions all get a range bonus, and a pretty big one at that. I know some of you will say the Flame cannon bonus is too big, far far too big, and i won't deny you. Im currently considering simmering it down to 50% and raising the skills level requirement.

Besides all this ive also made some changes to how recruitment works:

Slayers are, in this mod, available from the Barracks 3 building but they still require the armoury to be unlocked. This is because the Slayer Shrine is such an investment that many people, myself included, just ignore it in favour of other more needful things, also, i believe that while Slayers congregate within the Shrines, they would also be found in areas where dwarfs are mustering for war since if theres a fight to be had theres a doom to seek.



This is from a previous mod i made, which i am intergrating here as well. It just moves the basic Gyrocopter unit down a tier so its easier to get. I believe in one build of the game this was actually the case anyways before they changed their minds again.

Thats it for now, but im also considering normalising the turn-time cost of the very late Dwarf techs since they go up to crazy amounts like 20 turns each which is just not very fun to wait at, infact most people seem to just cheat the turns away anyways so i feel this is more fair. I'll set them at 8-10 turns or something like that, not fully decided yet.

ShootaBoy posted:

I give up. The other conputer can't even get into the game, the loving launcher crashes immidiately. Guess I'm not playing this game until I can build a whole computer that will hopefully loving work Thanks for trying to help, in any case.

oswald ownenstein posted:

Ungrim loving sucks bad in MP. They really need to do something about lords on foot just getting knocked around and owned like they're nothing.

Watching some wizard on a horse just own him is sad

GuardianOfAsgaard posted:

64-bit windows yeah? Just a thought.

Panfilo posted:

This is really cool, I can't wait to try it out. Having a way to make Ungrim and maybe regular Slayers a speed boost (either as an Ungrim skill, aura effect, or buff he could apply to Slayers temporarily) would help chase down cavalry units to murder them.

Questions :
-Does the Slayer King skill that gives 20% ward save stack with their 20%ish physical resistance? Hoo boy that would be fun to have Slayers that can shrug off 40% of enemy physical attacks! Wouldn't be that OP either, given savage orcs have 30% damage resist baked in already.

Away all Goats posted:

I was super disappointed to find out none of the dwarf lords could get a gyrocopter mount or something

Gejnor posted:

If Ungrim didn't have 4 unqiue skills already i might've considered an aoe speed effect but the problem is that he DOES have 4 unique skills, with 3 points each for a staggering 12 points required to fill out completely. In vanilla those skills are so subpar as to be never worth touching which i feel is a shame. I've tried reducing them to 1 point but they are hardcoded and im not allowed to change them in that way

Other than that i feel Slayers are fast enough, they are infact some of the fastest infantry in the game, going above most Beastmen AND Wood Elf units so its not a big loss.

The 20% Ward Save WILL stack with the RoR Slayers, normal slayers have no ward save of any kind, so this will make the RoR dudes survive for much longer and be badass as they should be.

wiegieman posted:

Why not just put all the modifiers on rank 1 of the skill? It won't stop the AI from making bad decisions, but what can really.

oswald ownenstein posted:

Ungrim loving sucks bad in MP. They really need to do something about lords on foot just getting knocked around and owned like they're nothing.

Watching some wizard on a horse just own him is sad

JBP posted:

I always felt like Dwarf lords and LLs on foot should have had an oathstone "mount" that basically plants them in one spot or in a vicinity and renders them completely immune to knock down or being shoved about. Maybe have it that enemies that enter the oath zone can't retreat/move away or something I don't know, I am not a video game designer.

Gejnor posted:

That whole "grounded for 20-30 seconds after landing" thing the devs talked about, which was delayed for bretonnia should help with this.

Gejnor posted:

If Ungrim didn't have 4 unqiue skills already i might've considered an aoe speed effect but the problem is that he DOES have 4 unique skills, with 3 points each for a staggering 12 points required to fill out completely. In vanilla those skills are so subpar as to be never worth touching which i feel is a shame. I've tried reducing them to 1 point but they are hardcoded and im not allowed to change them in that way

Other than that i feel Slayers are fast enough, they are infact some of the fastest infantry in the game, going above most Beastmen AND Wood Elf units so its not a big loss.

The 20% Ward Save WILL stack with the RoR Slayers, normal slayers have no ward save of any kind, so this will make the RoR dudes survive for much longer and be badass as they should be.


If i knew how to do this i would definately add that into the mod im currently working on.

JBP posted:

I always felt like Dwarf lords and LLs on foot should have had an oathstone "mount" that basically plants them in one spot or in a vicinity and renders them completely immune to knock down or being shoved about. Maybe have it that enemies that enter the oath zone can't retreat/move away or something I don't know, I am not a video game designer.

ShootaBoy posted:

Running it right now. It and my graphics drivers are up to date, even if the launcher thinks they aren't for some reason.

Phrosphor posted:

toasterwarrior posted:

A design philosophy I'd like to see in a skill revision mod would be to enable different playstyles that are thematically appropriate to the Legendary Lord/lord type without having to resort to buffing specific units. It's definitely one thing I don't like about some red skill trees, particularly the Dwarfish ones: regardless of your choice between the Dwarf Lord's jack-of-all-trades skill tree (which is also used by Thorgrim, Ungrim, and the White Dwarf) and the Runelord's more aggressively-tuned skill tree thanks to the blanket charge bonus and boosts to Rangers (which is shared by Belegar), you need to dump 3 points into Axe Lord to get through early game. Eventually, those points go to waste because Warriors become outdated.

I do get what they were attempting to do with the Runelord/Belegar skill trees: you make up for your melee core's lack in melee defense/armor with the Runelord's buffs/Belegar's abilities while using your Rangers to flank with both ranged and melee options. IMO, however, I think this is better done through skills that buff unit classes rather than specific units themselves, so players don't feel like they're wasting points on crutch skills.

It's why I feel that the Night Goblin Warboss/Skarsnik tree is probably the best skill tree in the game: it capitalizes on the theme of Night Goblins being stupidly fragile but numerous and recklessly aggressive to the point of actually being major threats on the attack by giving you massive boosts to all Night Goblin and Goblin units' melee attack and charge bonuses when maxed out. It rewards you for taking Goblin units of all kinds and classes, which keeps things thematically appropriate and extremely effective.

It's understandable if factions like the Empire just end up making their melee units meleeier/shooty units shootier/X units X-ier when using the appropriate Lord type, but the Arch-lector and Volkmar shouldn't just have practically the same tree except with big bonuses to Flagellants. If anything, an Empire army with their church militant leaders might be better off thematically with big boosts to melee unit offensive stats and morale, keeping it distinct from how an Empire General-led army would play yet keeping it in the same faction's overall style.

Panfilo posted:

I kind of chalk this up to power creep. And you don't need to take Axe Lord; I prefer to take Tactician or whatever the range boosting one is, because you WILL still find Quarrelers relevant late game and it also boosts Grudge Throwers as well.

I also have been putting 3 points in Obstinancy as well lately. Since you are generally playing defensively with dwarves, even a subtle edge in vigor means that the attackers will get gassed out before your own units. Its significant because once a unit is in the lowest vigor tier they are MUCH weaker; in the case of Lords its more likely you get them to rout by mobbing them with units because they got tired out to the point their Leadership tanks due to penalties, not because you actually killed them. And ranged units drain vigor when they shoot, so you want them to be at top performance for as much of the battle as possible.

Panfilo posted:

I kind of chalk this up to power creep. And you don't need to take Axe Lord; I prefer to take Tactician or whatever the range boosting one is, because you WILL still find Quarrelers relevant late game and it also boosts Grudge Throwers as well.

Panfilo posted:

I do agree Axe Lord gets obsolete pretty quick, especially compared to its counterparts like Honest Steel. And I don't find Miners terribly useful outside a few niche uses (Dwarves generally don't need Armor Piercing early on, and Thunderers/Greatweapon Longbeards are better later on)

Perhaps if they broke it down like this?

Axe Lord: +12 MA/MD to all units with 1H axes (Warriors/Longbeards/Ironbreakers/Quarrelers/Thunderers/Scouts)

Grimnir's Heirs: +12 MA/MD to all units with 2H weapons/duel wielding (Greatweapon variants, Miners, Hammerers, Slayers)

Now Axe Lord becomes a lot more versatile, being able to apply itself to a lot more units while Grimnir's Heirs is more niche. It also benefits your ranged units in melee which makes Rangers in particular decent fighters.

Ynglaur posted:

Wait, you can put multiple points into one skill?