Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

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Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

Tevery Best posted:

Great, now Poland can claim to have accepted ten million Ukrainian refugees.

Make the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth Great Again

not as catchy tbf

edit

# ? Apr 6, 2017 15:17

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# ? May 14, 2024 02:36

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

cinci zoo sniper posted:

In other news, Ukrainian citizens have gained visa-free travel rights to the majority of EU nations.

That's cool.

Has anyone (in the U.S.) had any family members come over to go to public school?

We have exchange students come stay with us a year at a time and we've decided it'd be cool to have an actual relative come spend a year with us and go to school. It'd be great for my U.S. born children to get to actually know their Eastern European cousins.

And now that I'm trying to actually make this happen I'm finding out that the special visa that exchange students get can only be acquired through an official program? That can't be right, can it?

# ? Apr 6, 2017 15:22

Shes Not Impressed: Apr 25, 2004

spacetoaster posted:

And now that I'm trying to actually make this happen I'm finding out that the special visa that exchange students get can only be acquired through an official program? That can't be right, can it?

My high school students here in Ukraine try to get selected for a FLEX spot. There's also Fulbright options for college/university students, I think.
But other than those programs, it's rare to meet a student who has been to the US let alone met an American.

# ? Apr 6, 2017 17:13

dex_sda: Oct 11, 2012

I looked at latest polls and somehow PO gained like 15 percentage points in a month and PiS lost a bunch. What the hell happened while I wasn't paying attention because polish politics is exhausting?

# ? Apr 6, 2017 18:19

catfry: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth

I have seen newspapers attributing the change to the failed opposition to the re-election of Donald Tusk to European Council president, in which Poland as the only country opposed, not even managing to get their ally hungary to vote with them. Kaszynski personally dislikes Tusk. This was seen as a petty attack without purpose or effect by many poles. It is also a source of pride to have a Pole in a very influential position in the EU which it seems counterproductive for Poland to try to change. No idea if this is the real explanation.

catfry fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Apr 6, 2017

# ? Apr 6, 2017 18:57

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

Shes Not Impressed posted:

My high school students here in Ukraine try to get selected for a FLEX spot. There's also Fulbright options for college/university students, I think.
But other than those programs, it's rare to meet a student who has been to the US let alone met an American.

That's where our family is. Our cousin is 13 and it'd be awesome to have her come spend a year in the US (her dad has helped me out a lot when I've traveled through that part of Europe).

I already know that I would have to pay a fee to the local school system for them to accept her (even though all my children attend there), the issue is the visa/type of visa that would allow her to stay that long AND attend high school.

# ? Apr 6, 2017 19:05

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

cinci zoo sniper posted:

My friend had them try to break into his apartment twice after he told them off on a doorstep.

Your friend is full of poo poo. JW are annoying but I've never had a single one try to keep up a conversation after I tell them I'm not interested. They're also 100% pacifist, what possible motive could they have to break into his apartment? Believe it or not they won't actually break down your door to leave the Watchtower on your coffee table. :psyduck:

MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Apr 6, 2017

# ? Apr 6, 2017 19:17

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

MeLKoR posted:

Your friend is full of poo poo. JW are annoying but I've never had a single one try to keep up a conversation after I tell them I'm not interested. They're also 100% pacifist, what possible motive could they have to break into his apartment? Believe it or not they won't actually break down your door to leave the Sentinel on your coffee table.

I'm glad that your experience with them has been better than having to prevent them from suddenly walking through your half-open door as you are listening to what they have to say, but it is neither conclusive of anything, nor a cause now to hypocritically imagine the worst case scenario of trespassing.

# ? Apr 6, 2017 19:23

Gervasius: Nov 2, 2010; Grimey Drawer

MeLKoR posted:

JW are annoying but I've never had a single one try to keep up a conversation after I tell them I'm not interested.

I had a pair of JWs not taking "not interested" for an answer and trying to follow me home to talk there. In their defence, I may have been a bit curt with them but I really had to take a poo poo fast.

# ? Apr 6, 2017 19:29

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

The only cultists who have been insufferable in their interactions with me are the Hare Krishna. Those people should be lined up and shot.

# ? Apr 6, 2017 19:30

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

^^^
Shot??

cinci zoo sniper posted:

In other news, Ukrainian citizens have gained visa-free travel rights to the majority of EU nations. They can travel for tourism, business, or personal visit purpose to all EU countries except for UK and Ireland, limited to 90 days in 180 day periods.

Do you have a link for this? I thought the final necessary vote hasn't taken place yet.

spacetoaster posted:

That's where our family is. Our cousin is 13 and it'd be awesome to have her come spend a year in the US (her dad has helped me out a lot when I've traveled through that part of Europe).

I already know that I would have to pay a fee to the local school system for them to accept her (even though all my children attend there), the issue is the visa/type of visa that would allow her to stay that long AND attend high school.

There's an A/T thread by some guy from state (I guess) answering all sorts of visa & immigration questions, so you might try that. I only have experience with regular B2 visas. Worst case, you should be able to get her one of these at least to spend a summer with you.

mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Apr 6, 2017

# ? Apr 6, 2017 19:33

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

steinrokkan posted:

The only cultists who have been insufferable in their interactions with me are the Hare Krishna. Those people should be lined up and shot.

Now talk about chill cultists. Although I think there maybe are 50 of them in the entire country, and they are likely to be acutely aware of the general population to display an attitude of any sort.

mobby_6kl posted:

Do you have a link for this? I thought the final necessary vote hasn't taken place yet.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20170329IPR69065/parliament-approves-ukraine-visa-waiver

Was a bit hastily to report things, as it seems from the official announcement. There is one more hoop to jump through, you are correct.

# ? Apr 6, 2017 19:37

Lovely Joe Stalin: Jun 12, 2007; Our Lovely Wang

steinrokkan posted:

The only cultists who have been insufferable in their interactions with me are the Hare Krishna. Those people should be lined up and shot.

You're halfway there already. They love forming lines.

# ? Apr 6, 2017 19:37

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hese-countries/

quote:

An odd thing happened in Lithuania in February. An anonymous sender dispatched an email to a leading member of Parliament and several media outlets. The message claimed that German soldiers, part of a NATO contingent recently dispatched to the Baltic republic, had raped a teenage girl.

The story was fake. The Lithuanian government moved quickly to declare it as such before it managed to get traction on social media. What could have developed into a massive scandal fizzled instead.

The author of the message had long since vanished, taking care to delete his electronic footprint. Lithuanian officials immediately fingered Moscow as the responsible party. It�s likely they were right. The problem is that there was no evidence one way or the other � as is so often the case with online trickery.

Americans and Western Europeans have only just begun to wake up to Russia�s use of information as a tool of mischief. But it�s nothing new to the three Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, which regained their independence from the old Soviet Union at the beginning of the 1990s. For the past quarter of a century they�ve been doing their best to respond to the inflow of destabilizing innuendo from their huge neighbor to the east.

Interference with elections? Check. Cyberattacks? Check. Prominent politicians with murky links to the Kremlin? Check. Fake news and skillfully targeted rumors? Double check.

Nowadays the three countries are staunch members of the European Union and NATO, which certainly helps to boost their defenses against meddling from the outside. But they�re also home to large Russian-speaking minorities that remain from Soviet days, who largely rely on Russian television for their entertainment and news, making them easy targets for what one U.S. think tank calls Moscow�s �firehose of falsehood.� �I remember reading all these articles from seven or eight years ago,� says Raul Rebane, a veteran of Estonian television who now runs a consultancy on strategic communications. �They used to say, �Information operations are supposed to support the military.� Now they�ve figured out that information is the operation.�

The issue is especially sensitive now, as NATO is bolstering its troop presence in the three countries to deter Moscow from repeating its invasions in Crimea and eastern Ukraine. But the Russians still have plenty of room for dirty tricks. NATO troops arriving in Estonia have been warned to beware of sexual blackmail attempts or efforts to hack their social-media accounts. Moscow-controlled media outlets strive, without evidence, to depict the Balts as racists who won�t dare to tolerate the presence of nonwhite soldiers � a bit rich, given that Russian media outlets elsewhere in Europe are busily fomenting anti-migrant sentiments. But nowadays Moscow couldn�t care less about consistency. �The aim,� as British journalist Peter Pomerantsev once put it, �is to confuse rather than convince, to trash the information space so the audience gives up looking for any truth amid the chaos.�

Yet the Russians do have their persistent themes, endlessly and persistently repeated: Like their Western European friends, Moscow claims, Balts have utter contempt for traditional family values, enthusiastically embracing atheism, gay people and pedophiles. The Baltic countries are failed states, their economies struggling. (In 2016, the average salary in Estonia was twice that in Russia.) And perhaps most ominously of all, Russian-sponsored media outlets continue to advance the notion � just as the Soviets did � that the Baltic states are fake countries that have no real justification for an independent existence.

Sanita Jemberga, an investigative journalist in Riga, is one of the people behind a recent documentary film that follows the various ways Russia attempts to push its agenda in the Baltic states. She has traced the ownership of disinformation websites through labyrinths of shell companies back to their real origins in Moscow, and has tracked the flow of money from Kremlin coffers to corrupt Latvian politicians.

All this helps to discredit some of the more obvious lies � yet there are always seem to be more to come. �When they depict you as part of the rotten West, as a homosexual paradise, it�s very easy to laugh it off,� says Jemberga. �But then you find yourself remembering how they used imaginary fascism to turn Ukraine from a friendly nation into their most serious enemy.�

Along the way the Balts have learned important lessons that their friends in the United States and Western Europe would do well to note. Most experts stress that trying to debunk every fake story spewed out by Moscow�s giant lie machine is the wrong way to go. �They have a huge toolbox,� says Mikk Maran, the head of the Estonian foreign intelligence service. �Russia has been active. The West has been reactive.�

�If you only focus on countering, you�re on their territory,� says Ben Heap, a member of the Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence, a NATO think tank based in Riga, Latvia.

The Balts are fighting back in a variety of ways. They�re working hard to bolster their cyberdefenses. They�re trying to do a better job of integrating their Russian-speaking populations, in some cases with notable success. As part of that effort, Estonia has opened its own Russian-language TV channel, a modest attempt to counter the hitherto-near-unchallenged supremacy of Putin�s broadcast empire. (As Estonian public-television executive Ainar Ruussaar put it: �Sometimes communication is more important than antitank missiles.�) And the Latvians are working hard on building media literacy, using school workshops that teach teachers and students to differentiate journalistic fact from fiction as well as public service announcements that draw attention to fake news stories.

The Balts don�t take any of this lightly. They know, from their bitter Soviet experience, how important it is to keep your own story alive, no matter how hard the fight.

# ? Apr 6, 2017 20:00

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

Russia has been trying really hard to ruin the Polish-Ukrainian relationship too. They destroyed some Polish cemeteries and memorials recently and painted them with "death to Poles" and ukrainian flags, held a protest march of "Poles" (who all only spoke Russian for some reason) in Ukraine demanding Wolyn be returned to Poland and even shot up one of our consulates in Lwow (I think, maybe Kiev) trying to pin it on Ukrainian nationalists/Banderists. I don't know how any of that is being reported in the state run media, because I refuse to turn it on, even for a second, but I don't think its been very successful in convincing us Poles to hate Ukrainians, at least those of us who didn't already hate them.

Kurtofan posted:

edit

also this is a very good beardog and I want to pet it

# ? Apr 6, 2017 21:29

ringu0: Feb 24, 2013

in Soviet Russia a dog pets you

# ? Apr 6, 2017 21:48

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

ringu0 posted:

in Soviet Russia a dog pets you

Caucasian Shepherds are no joke.

# ? Apr 6, 2017 21:51

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Has there been any response from Putin yet over Trump's alleged plans to attack his bases in Syria?

# ? Apr 6, 2017 23:53

Dr Kool-AIDS: Mar 26, 2004

Grouchio posted:

Has there been any response from Putin yet over Trump's alleged plans to attack his bases in Syria?

Stop trolling every thread with the same stupid question.

# ? Apr 6, 2017 23:54

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Sinteres posted:

Stop trolling every thread with the same stupid question.

I'm loving scared you asshat.

# ? Apr 7, 2017 00:00

Dr Kool-AIDS: Mar 26, 2004

Grouchio posted:

I'm loving scared you asshat.

We're not going to bomb Russian bases, jfc. The plan you're worried about said we were going to bomb Syria's air defenses, where some Russian technicians happen to be present. It's not good, but recklessly killing Russians isn't quite as bad as actively targeting them.

# ? Apr 7, 2017 00:01

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Lithuanian TV making fun of the police response to protests in Russia and Belarus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CkmybufcEc

# ? Apr 7, 2017 03:08

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

Grouchio posted:

I'm loving scared you asshat.

Good, you should be.

# ? Apr 7, 2017 04:08

Rincewinds: Jul 30, 2014; MEAT IS MEAT

Grouchio posted:

Has there been any response from Putin yet over Trump's alleged plans to attack his bases in Syria?

https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/850205272123375616

# ? Apr 7, 2017 09:19

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Rincewinds posted:

https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/850205272123375616

Yeah? Well gently caress you Putin, and gently caress your Syrian lapdog. The way this is going I wouldn't be surprised if one of these days the brave Donbass freedom fighters successfully destroy a dangerous illegal chemical stockpile of the Ukrainian gayfascists that then unfortunately recombine to form Sarin or VX and kill half of some Ukrainian village. By which I mean the Ukrainian euronazis did it themselves to incriminate the terrorized freedom fighters who have for years been getting bombed with mustard gas supplied by the CIA and Soros.

gently caress you, sir.

MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Apr 7, 2017

# ? Apr 7, 2017 09:33

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

President Putin �regards the strikes as aggression against a sovereign nation,� his spokesman Dmitry Peskov said, noting that the president believes the strikes were carried out �in violation of international law, and also under an invented pretext.�

:anime:

# ? Apr 7, 2017 09:35

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

Check it out, last night in Novi Sad the government shut off the streetlights in an attempt to make the protests seem smaller or harder to see.

https://twitter.com/natasaromanof/status/850069934335983616

It did not work.

# ? Apr 7, 2017 10:17

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Dusty Baker 2 posted:

Check it out, last night in Novi Sad the government shut off the streetlights in an attempt to make the protests seem smaller or harder to see.

https://twitter.com/natasaromanof/status/850069934335983616

It did not work.

That is some next level of impotency in governmental response to issues.

"We have thousands of people with illuminating electronics and vuvuzelas marching on the streets."
"Shut down the lights."

E: Looks like Czech Republic has shut down a DPR consulate ( :wtc:

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Apr 7, 2017

# ? Apr 7, 2017 10:18

jonnypeh: Nov 5, 2006

quote:

President Petro Poroshenko on March 27 signed into law amendments that require anti-corruption non-governmental organizations, investigative journalists and potentially any anti-corruption protesters to file publicly accessible electronic asset declarations.
The legislation is seen as an effort by the authorities to crack down on anti-corruption activists and independent media. It has triggered a backlash from civil society, with some comparing it to the dictatorial Russian law branding nongovernmental organizations as �foreign agents.�

I couldn't find a decent article on this other than the one I read in an Estonian paper.

Kyiv Post has pay wall:
https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/poroshenko-sign-law-crack-anti-corruption-activists-journalists.html
https://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/op-ed/sergii-leshchenko-poroshenko-makes-historic-mistake.html

# ? Apr 7, 2017 16:29

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

Rincewinds posted:

https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/850205272123375616

Good. People should stop using chemical weapons.

# ? Apr 7, 2017 19:26

A Pale Horse: Jul 29, 2007

spacetoaster posted:

Good. People should stop using chemical weapons.

If you think this improves the situation in Syria in any way you are optimistic on a level bordering on delusional.

# ? Apr 7, 2017 19:35

SaltyJesus: Jun 2, 2011; Arf!

Today is the International Romani Day, so in that name I want to honor my hometown's greatest Romani native son. In the video below he's singing the anthem of the Romani people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeVL0BSvSFU

e: The information in the video is incorrect, he is not the author of Gelem Gelem, that would be �arko Jovanović, a different Serbian Romani musician.

Alternative version of the song because the first link I gave has some unpleasant crackling sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPlAEAKH6vA

SaltyJesus fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Apr 8, 2017

# ? Apr 8, 2017 17:51

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

meanwhile in France, this movie about a two people having to host a romani family at their house came out last week

The guy on the right is supposed to be Romani

# ? Apr 8, 2017 18:14

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Since not everybody here speaks French, a quick translation to get what the poster says: "Christian Clavier" translates to "avoid this movie at all cost".

# ? Apr 8, 2017 18:28

Anne Frank Funk: Nov 4, 2008

I must secure tickets for the white cinema.

# ? Apr 8, 2017 18:29

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

cinci zoo sniper posted:

E: Looks like Czech Republic has shut down a DPR consulate ().

Can you legally have a consulate when you aren't a real country?

# ? Apr 8, 2017 18:30

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

The_Franz posted:

Can you legally have a consulate when you aren't a real country?

They just slapped a name on a rented office last year, they were not invited or recognized.

# ? Apr 8, 2017 18:33

SaltyJesus: Jun 2, 2011; Arf!

Hahaha Jesus Christ, France. To be fair, the majority of people here are not exactly progressive w/ regard to the Romani minority. I was impressed that my preferred newspaper had the balls to "frontpage" (inasmuch as you can do that on a digital publication) an article about the poor living conditions and discrimination against the Romani in Ni� today.

# ? Apr 8, 2017 18:34

SaltyJesus: Jun 2, 2011; Arf!

Pierogi posted:

I must secure tickets for the white cinema.

# ? Apr 8, 2017 18:36

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# ? May 14, 2024 02:36

Gobbeldygook: May 13, 2009; Hates Native American people and tries to justify their genocides.

Put this racist on ignore immediately!

This week in eastern european fightin' words: A group of academics put out a declaration that Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian, and Montenegrin are the same language. For the uninitiated, nationalists in the former Yugoslavia (but especially Croatia) insist that their shared language is actually several different languages despite the enormous evidence to the contrary. Schoolchildren are divided up by language, people who speak the same language sometimes go through the kabuki ritual of pretending they need translators to understand each other, and TV shows from different countries will be subtitled as if everyone doesn't speak the same language. The article features this pack cigarettes which says "smoking kills" in three different "languages".

Don't be fooled by Serbian being in cyrillic, it's also the same thing. Crosswords can be done in mixed "Bosnian" and "Serbian" because there's a one-to-one correspondence between their alphabets.

Gobbeldygook fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Apr 10, 2017

# ? Apr 10, 2017 22:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

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