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glynnenstein posted:Yeah, you can get box extension rings that will do what you want.
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Apr 9, 2017 00:16
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Put the last box in that picture on a bearing with
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Apr 9, 2017 01:00
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Fucks sake, haha. That one's getting emailed to the boss.
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Apr 9, 2017 02:10
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I just moved into a new apartment and I noticed that one of the switches was acting funny. The thought I had is that this is an old apartment with old wiring, and installing a dimming LED/CFL switch so I don't blind myself walking into the bathroom at night would be a pretty good idea. As this place is old and the garage wiring poo poo the bed the other night (a whole different story), I prepared myself to see some shoddy work, but now I've gone from laughing about this to being downright weirded out:  Never before have I seen a switch wired like this - I see what appears to be the hot wire attached to one side of the switch and... well, nothing on the other side. The multimeter does show 120v between the one wired side of the switch and the ground, and as far as I can see behind it I'm not seeing any other wires attached to it. Could this honestly be a setup where the light is wired as always hot, and the switch operates as a neutral (which is improperly wired to the ground, rather than having the neutral line on the other side)? I'm honestly terrified of pulling this thing any more open than it already is, and I've carefully closed up the switch cover. This looks sketchy as hell, but before I have any angry phone calls with management company I'd like to bounce it off you all to ensure I'm not Dunning-Krugering myself here. Feel free to ask for any further pictures of this abomination if you'd like.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:18
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Ripoff posted:This looks sketchy as hell, but before I have any angry phone calls with management company I'd like to bounce it off you all to ensure I'm not Dunning-Krugering myself here. Feel free to ask for any further pictures of this abomination if you'd like. This looks like a switch box in a bedroom where there were provisions in the plans for a light/fan, then the fan wasn't installed, so the wire wasn't run. That's a nonfunctional switch.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:23
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Hard to see in the pic, is it maybe using the screw terminal for one pole and a backstab for the other?
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Apr 9, 2017 03:24
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Bad Munki posted:Hard to see in the pic, is it maybe using the screw terminal for one pole and a backstab for the other? Yep, that's 100% it - I couldn't see the backstab because I'm a blind dingus. All's well, thank you all for helping me not make a bigger rear end of myself!
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Apr 9, 2017 03:34
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This is hopefully a quick question that somebody can help me out with. We're having a bathroom renovated and due to some choices we need to upgrade our electrical service. That's fine in itself.. It's only 100 amps and has other small sub-panels hung off it. When it comes time to replace the box, what brand should I ask for? SquareD? GE? I've been reading a bunch of threads and want to make sure that I don't end up with whatever the current incarnation of the Stab Lok is.
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Apr 12, 2017 23:13
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mungtor posted:This is hopefully a quick question that somebody can help me out with. We're having a bathroom renovated and due to some choices we need to upgrade our electrical service. That's fine in itself.. It's only 100 amps and has other small sub-panels hung off it. Square D QO is my go-to (homeline sucks - aluminum bus bar). If you need a bunch of GFCI, AFCIs, CAFCIs and stuff this looks like the new hotness: http://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product-range-presentation/62053-qo%E2%84%A2-plug-on-neutral-load-centers but I've not set eyes on one yet and don't know what the breaker selection is like for PON stuff (it accepts standard QO breakers as well, so at least you're totally covered that way).
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Apr 12, 2017 23:18
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Motronic posted:Square D QO is my go-to (homeline sucks - aluminum bus bar). If you need a bunch of GFCI, AFCIs, CAFCIs and stuff this looks like the new hotness: http://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product-range-presentation/62053-qo%E2%84%A2-plug-on-neutral-load-centers but I've not set eyes on one yet and don't know what the breaker selection is like for PON stuff (it accepts standard QO breakers as well, so at least you're totally covered that way). I just had my service upgraded and I really really wish I had been aware of the plug on neutral offering... drat that would have been the way to go.
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Apr 13, 2017 03:55
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Motronic posted:Square D QO is my go-to (homeline sucks - aluminum bus bar). If you need a bunch of GFCI, AFCIs, CAFCIs and stuff this looks like the new hotness: http://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product-range-presentation/62053-qo%E2%84%A2-plug-on-neutral-load-centers but I've not set eyes on one yet and don't know what the breaker selection is like for PON stuff (it accepts standard QO breakers as well, so at least you're totally covered that way). Awesome. Thank you. We probably don't need that many GFCI, etc but if there's not a significant difference in cost we may go with the PON box anyway. Thanks again.
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Apr 13, 2017 16:44
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I put a Square D QO panel in my workshop. All of 3 out of like 24 circuits are filled, but I have no complaints with it. I went ahead and got GFCI circuit breakers for each circuit; they're more expensive than GFCI outlets, but I personally like having all "circuit reset" stuff be at the panel rather than scattered about the building. Then again, I've never had to deal with nuisance trips; if I had to reset regularly then I might feel differently.
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Apr 13, 2017 17:11
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I have exterior outlets with plastic in use outlet covers, and my GFCI trips every single time it rains or the sprinkler runs. I have decided I want to replace the plastic boxes with metal flap style covers. I simply don't care to have an in-use style outlet box, if it's raining I am sure not going to be out there with a power tool. I just cant see a point except for maybe poo poo like outdoor lighting or ponds. Back to my main point, all of the plastic boxes (which are now brittle, cracking, and need replaced) were installed with absolutely no caulk. Do I need to caulk these things? It just never dawned on me since the previous outlets had no caulk, but I read another thread here about a backyard workshop and saw mention of caulking an outdoor outlet and I had a eureka moment. However I want to make sure it's not a bad idea or possibly against code, I know corners were cut on my house but caulking exterior outlets just seems like a ridiculous place to cut corners. In addition, many months ago I purchased horizontal outlet covers, but it turns out 3 of my outlets were installed vertically. Would it be a bad idea to just use the horizontal covers vertically? It's just annoying because it is too late to return the 3 horizontal covers now.
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Apr 14, 2017 14:46
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I put caulk on my exterior outlets because I figured it wouldn't hurt anything and might help. The cover already had a gasket on it that should keep water out. If you have old, cracked covers then I could well believe that water's getting in there. Could be worth throwing some caulk on there, just to see if it helps any. I'm pretty sure that if you install the horizontal covers vertically, then they won't properly protect the outlet from water intrusion, and you'll be back to getting nuisance trips. Not to mention it's not code to install things contrary to the manufacturer's instructions. That said, the outlet cover I've installed was valid either horizontal or vertical; you just put the hinge pin in differently depending on how you wanted to do things.
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Apr 14, 2017 15:44
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I want to convert the bathroom vent fan switch into a switch/GFCI combo. I bought this guy http://a.co/6y9BIEM and when going to install it found the instructions seemed to assume a shitload of wires but the fan switch only has two. Is this going to work/be safe for use as an outlet? Are those extra instructions for situations where outlets and things are in a series? It also has two switch leads on this new one which I don't understand at all.
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Apr 14, 2017 18:23
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Crotch Fruit posted:I have exterior outlets with plastic in use outlet covers... You should absolutely caulk around boxes and any other place there are holes in the exterior of your house. There's no code or any reason not to besides cutting corners like you said. Mimesweeper fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Apr 14, 2017 |
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Apr 14, 2017 18:54
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:I want to convert the bathroom vent fan switch into a switch/GFCI combo. I bought this guy http://a.co/6y9BIEM and when going to install it found the instructions seemed to assume a shitload of wires but the fan switch only has two. Is this going to work/be safe for use as an outlet? Are those extra instructions for situations where outlets and things are in a series? It also has two switch leads on this new one which I don't understand at all. If you just have the 2 wires (line/load) then you do not have enough to do this without going into your attic. You would need to add a box or something up there, pigtail everything, fish the hot/neutral/ground down to your switch box, then install that device.
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Apr 14, 2017 18:58
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H110Hawk posted:If you just have the 2 wires (line/load) then you do not have enough to do this without going into your attic. You would need to add a box or something up there, pigtail everything, fish the hot/neutral/ground down to your switch box, then install that device. Does that mean the switch as currently wired isn't correct and will burn my house down or just upgrading it to a switch with a built in outlet makes this require rewiring in the attic?
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Apr 14, 2017 23:33
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:Does that mean the switch as currently wired isn't correct and will burn my house down or just upgrading it to a switch with a built in outlet makes this require rewiring in the attic? It's correctly wired for just a switch. Basically the hot line instead of going straight to your fan takes a trip down your wall, through the switch, and back up to your fan. The neutral completes the journey directly to your fan, as does your ground if present. New modern wiring see neutral and ground wires everywhere.
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Apr 15, 2017 00:34
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 My battle with knob and tube continues. I was replacing the line to my ceiling fan in the living room and when I cut the wires off and pulled the new stuff down to the switch I noticed there were 4 wires in the box and didn't think about it and snipped those too. Turns out those were the feed from the breaker so I don't have power to the front half of my house (only 1 light and 3 outlets (that is for 3 rooms)). My time frame to replace the rest of this mess was just super accelerated. I started taking up more boards in my attic to see where it all goes when I eventually unearthed the spaghetti monster pictured above. It's not very clear but there was exposed wires in the top left wire in the picture. I am going to have a fun few days 
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Apr 18, 2017 02:09
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I currently have a switch connected to two recessed lights. I'd like to add an unswitched outlet. Is there a way to pull power off of the switch/lights but make the outlet unswitched?
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Apr 18, 2017 02:11
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Scrapez posted:I currently have a switch connected to two recessed lights. I'd like to add an unswitched outlet. The other less common way to wire a light fixture is to run the lower to the fixture, and then run one romex line to the switch. This is kinda frowned upon because it means you would be using the black strand of Romex as an always live hot as God intended, but the white usually neutral line would then be a switched hot that would require permanent marker, black electrical tapes or some other marker to let the inspector know that it is not a regular neutral wire. This type of wiring is less common and if there is only one romex line at your switch then I don't believe you could wire in an always on outlet.
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Apr 18, 2017 02:55
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Crotch Fruit posted:Most light circuits will have two Romex lines at the switch, one always supplying power and then the witches leg going to the fixture, you could theoretically add an extra outlet using the line that is supplying power. I say theoretically because there might be code reasons to not put an outlet on your existing lighting circuit. So if I pull the switch out of the wall and check voltage with a multi meter and one side is always hot 120 and the other side is switched, your first scenario is possible? Given it's allowed by code... Would I just wire straight from the always hot switch posts to the new outlet? Or from switch posts to a box to the new outlet? Or, is it possible to put a junction box inline with the wire going from the electrical panel to the switch and "split" it in the junction box with one feed remaining to the switch and the other straight to the new outlet?
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Apr 18, 2017 03:30
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Scrapez posted:So if I pull the switch out of the wall and check voltage with a multi meter and one side is always hot 120 and the other side is switched, your first scenario is possible? Given it's allowed by code... This is what I imagined, so if it's code legal here is a picture for you. 
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Apr 18, 2017 11:57
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Crotch Fruit posted:The other less common way to wire a light fixture is to run the lower to the fixture, and then run one romex line to the switch. This is kinda frowned upon because it means you would be using the black strand of Romex as an always live hot as God intended, but the white usually neutral line would then be a switched hot that would require permanent marker, black electrical tapes or some other marker to let the inspector know that it is not a regular neutral wire. This type of wiring is less common and if there is only one romex line at your switch then I don't believe you could wire in an always on outlet. Never take for granted that any color of wire is anything without verifying with a volt meter. Green or bare is the equipment grounding conductor, any other color can be hot - the end. knowonecanknow posted:
Lol. Have fun, it'll be nice for your peace of mind when you're done.
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Apr 18, 2017 12:55
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Regarding 3 way switches, does that mean it is no longer allowable to wire then like the first example shown on this page? http://www.buildmyowncabin.com/electrical/wiring-diagrams-3way-7.html If I had 2, 3 way switches in one box and wired them like the second switch in that example, if just have to bring in 2 14-3 cables. Could I still do that if I also ran in a always hot 14-2 from that circuit, even if the hot and neutral from that 14-2 were capped off? Trying to stick the least number of conductors possible into these boxes for ease of writing.
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Apr 18, 2017 16:30
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You don't need a neutral in every 3-way box, but you do need one switch box per room to have a neutral as a general rule. Many(most?) new occupancy sensors don't require a neutral, so I'm not sure this rule will stick around.
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Apr 18, 2017 17:53
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Having one of my side doors replaced and this was in the frame for the side lights, looks good to me... Going to fish the wire from the other side and have a new outlet by the door now.
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Apr 18, 2017 19:05
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Thanks, that makes sense. Googling around it seems this falls heavily on local interpretation. So just to avoid any issues, I might just run 2x 14-4 to this specific box. My town has been hell to get any answers from.
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Apr 18, 2017 19:08
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angryrobots posted:It was not frowned upon, and was incredibly common in residential installations up until code recently changed to require a neutral in all switch boxes. And even now, it's often cheaper for the home run to go straight to the light fixture junction box, and they run a 3-conductor cable down to the switch. FWIW, in my early 1980s apartment, there's hot + neutral + ground in every switch box (so at least 2 runs of 14/2 romex), even a box with nothing but a single switch. I'm not sure when it became code, but it was apparently a thing when this place was built. My last apartment was built around the same time, in a different city, and had the same setup. Apartments tend to be built even cheaper than tract houses, with everything done at the absolute bare legal minimum. If they could have gotten away with just a switch loop, they would have (they probably did on the one 3 way switch, but I think that's legal in that case.. or was, at the time). randomidiot fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 00:40
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I have a problem with the outdoor PIR sensor that turns on the lights outside my house when someone comes up the driveway. It is a Clipsal Infrasecure "2 wire" sensor. I swapped the CFLs for LEDs and now they don't work properly. A quick google suggested I need a "3 wire" model. 1. If I buy the "3 wire" sensor, will it replace the current sensor easily or will more cabling need to be run? 2. What's the difference between the Clipsal, which is $100-150, versus the $40 one from Bunnings? http://www.clipsal.com/Trade/Products/ProductDetail?CatNo=750WPR https://www.bunnings.com.au/brilliant-3-wire-intelliscanner-security-sensor_p4370690 Thanks!
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Apr 19, 2017 02:03
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Yu-Gi-Ho! posted:FWIW Yah it can be done either way. Point is, this thread is where persons who may have never done any electrical come to ask questions, and taking for granted what they have, or their experience level to tell the difference is a bad idea. The more funky rear end bullshit I come across, and the more I have to hear arc flash incident reports, the more I believe in taking nothing for granted.
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Apr 19, 2017 02:09
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Raised by Hamsters posted:Thanks, that makes sense. Googling around it seems this falls heavily on local interpretation. So just to avoid any issues, I might just run 2x 14-4 to this specific box. My town has been hell to get any answers from. 404(C) as of 2017 states that "Where multiple switch locations control the same lighting load such that the entire floor area of the room is visible from the single or combined switch locations, the grounded circuit conductor shall only be required at one location". Prior, as of 2011, it was required at every box. As always local jurisdiction has the final say, just wanted to save you from buying 14-4 if you already have -3.
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Apr 19, 2017 06:03
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Oh, thanks! The stuff I was looking at was all older. I know we're not on 2017 here yet but I think I'll chance it. Those lighting circuits all have dimmers at the other end of the 3 way, in the same room. Easy enough to change this one if they object, anyway.
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Apr 19, 2017 16:05
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I need to wire an outlet but also have two lines coming out as well. What is the best way to get it all to fit in the 14 cubic inch pvc box? is it worth pig-tailing everything and stuffing it all to the back of the box then have a 4th line come from the tail to the outlet? I also considered using both sets of screw terminals and the back stabs, is that a good idea? Some times it feels impossible to cram everything into a box. It's all 12-2 btw. Are caps more resilient than I give them credit for?
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Apr 19, 2017 17:04
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knowonecanknow posted:I need to wire an outlet but also have two lines coming out as well. What is the best way to get it all to fit in the 14 cubic inch pvc box? is it worth pig-tailing everything and stuffing it all to the back of the box then have a 4th line come from the tail to the outlet? I also considered using both sets of screw terminals and the back stabs, is that a good idea? Some times it feels impossible to cram everything into a box. It's all 12-2 btw. Are caps more resilient than I give them credit for? There's a maximum fill limit for boxes; see e.g. this article or this calculator. If you're exceeding the maximum fill for the box, you need a bigger box. There are extension collars that give you more volume to play with; they're loops of sheet metal that screw down on top of the existing box to make a deeper box with more room for wires. This would require you to mount the box deeper in the wall, though.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:17
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:There's a maximum fill limit for boxes; see e.g. this article or this calculator. If you're exceeding the maximum fill for the box, you need a bigger box. There are extension collars that give you more volume to play with; they're loops of sheet metal that screw down on top of the existing box to make a deeper box with more room for wires. This would require you to mount the box deeper in the wall, though. I should be good based on that calculator. Im stuck with the smaller boxes because my walls are very narrow. Some of the walls are only 2 inches deep.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:41
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knowonecanknow posted:I should be good based on that calculator. Im stuck with the smaller boxes because my walls are very narrow. Some of the walls are only 2 inches deep. You could get a 2-gang box instead -- go for wider instead of deeper. You'd have to cut the drywall though, because the box cover would be bigger. But yeah, if you're okay by fill, then this isn't a big deal.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:44
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knowonecanknow posted:I need to wire an outlet but also have two lines coming out as well. What is the best way to get it all to fit in the 14 cubic inch pvc box? is it worth pig-tailing everything and stuffing it all to the back of the box then have a 4th line come from the tail to the outlet? I also considered using both sets of screw terminals and the back stabs, is that a good idea? Some times it feels impossible to cram everything into a box. It's all 12-2 btw. Are caps more resilient than I give them credit for? I'd def pig-tail it. It'll make it easier to fold the wires neatly back in the box and I trust wirenuts a whole lot more than an outlet for tying everything together. edit: Stab-in outlet termination is only for #14 wire Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 23:30
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Blackbeer posted:I'd def pig-tail it. It'll make it easier to fold the wires neatly back in the box and I trust wirenuts a whole lot more than an outlet for tying everything together. All good to know, thanks a lot!
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Apr 20, 2017 00:55
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