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These golems are also explicitly called out at some point as being different from traditional golems -- they're smaller and less bulky, but faster and have all kinds of nasty abilities. The "generic" golem (which you see in this series defending mage towers and the like) is a lot harder to damage and has more health than the plague golems, but all it can do is swing at you in melee, so it's pretty effectively neutralized by a decentlty-equipped blessed fighter.
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Apr 6, 2017 15:46
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Yeah, I've always imagined these guys as more like robots with magic instead of electricity, while regular golems are just walking statues.
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Apr 6, 2017 17:19
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Update 053 – The Approach to the Golem Spire “So, we're supposed to go south-east for this?” Don't do what I did, and go south west. That way lies other things.    “What are you doing?” “Practising my spells!” “Good to hear.” “If you need any help, let me know. “Curious though.” “What is?” “How much we've grown in the past few months.” “Several life-or-death battles will tend to do that to you.” “I wonder how many times this sort of thing fails?” “Far too often. Remember, we're out here since the last team vanished.” “We haven't found any other leads since that one guy, right?” “Nope.” “Regardless, this appears to be the mountains that the General was talking about. I hope.” “He did also mention that the wizard flew down to meet him. We may have to do the same.” “Logical.” “Just have to find a place to start.” “It was on the other side.” So... all those mountains that have been impassable this entire game? Yeah, they hold secret passages on occasion, some of which you can only fly over. There is a debug room that can only be reached this way – except the trigger for it prevents you from landing. “FLY, MY PRECIOUS! LEAD US TO THE WIZARD WHO THINKS HE'S A BETTER FLYER THAN YOU!” “... Have we even seen someone who sells the Flight spell?” “Wheeee!” “Found you!” “That was remarkably easy.” “Beautiful, too.” “Not as much as the place with the flower.” “Not much here either. Man likes his privacy.” “At least we have a name now. Zalifar.” “Hello?” “Hello?” “Maybe he's out?” “No, I am here.” “You're here. Our saviours at last.” “I wouldn't call us that. Other people are doing the same, if not more.” “That matters not. You are who you are.” You meet a wizard, currently living a hermetical existence in the mountains of eastern Valorim. However, he doesn't seem reclusive or unhappy to see you. In fact, he seems very pleased. And relieved. “I am Zalifar, though you know that already. Welcome to my home. I know who you are, there is no need to introduce yourselves.” “Thank you for the hospitality. You sent for us?” “I live up here, experiencing my wizardry and the joys of flying. Alas, I see many of this land's troubles.” “I can only assume you chose this place because you had to fly to and from it?” “That too. I live here because it is an easy place from which I can fly about. I could rhapsodize for hours about the joys of the wind, of the heights, of soaring above the land. However, that is not why I'm glad you're here. I have been waiting for your arrival so I can discuss the land's troubles.” “We know of the troubles, both near and far. What is it that you offer?” “This land is being overrun by golems. Nobody knows where they come from.” “I do.” “If you assist me, I will give you the location of their lair.” “What is your condition for your assistance?” “I wish you to assist me in dealing with a drake.” “A Drake.” “An enormous drake lives in the mountains southwest of Greendale. You can only get there by flying. It is west of a large field of rubble which is itself south of Greendale. We saw each other frequently when flying, but had a sort of truce. Until recently.” “What happened?” “Recently, it has started to chase me, actually trying to kill me! It seemed maddened. Go find it, and ensure it will never attack me again. Then you will have my assistance.” “Done.” “Thank you.” “But before you go, if I may have a moment of your time?” “Sure?” “We'll be outside.” “... They are gone.” “Are you sure this is the path you wish to walk further on? I am no fool.” “I promised.” “Then I will abide your decision.”* * * “What was that about?” “He thought he knew me. From before my Exile. Turns out, that wasn't the case.” “I wonder though, how many families will be reunited if Exile gets its way?” “... I don't know. Not enough.” “We should cross the river here, see if the rubble is on that side of the river or not.”  “Halt!” “Polite.” “This is the place!” “Alright, let's find this drake. GO FORTH, MY PRECIOUS!”  “There!” “That looks like a lair to me.”  “Oh wow. Cheery.”  “Of course!” You could reject his request, get into fight, kill Dalakros, and complete the quest that way. But not so much here! “Thank you.”  You come face to face with Dalakros the drake. You can see he is a thinning creature, and his scales are beginning to lose their sheen. It is slowly starving. “I am Dalakros.” He looks at you with naked hunger. “And I hunt.” “Surely you are a mighty hunter!” “I hunt for sustenance, not for the joy of the hunt. I have done so for a long time in the woods. But the Golems have taken my food away!” “...?” “They kill all, all the deer, all the bears, and I have little choice to sometimes hunt human meat!” “About that. There is a certain human...” “Yes, I have even hunted the wizard who sometimes flies over the woods to the east. It is not something I wish to do, but I have no choice. That is why I have hoped you humans would approach to speak to me.” “I will resist my urges for your meat, and leave the humans alone. But if, and only if you adventurers personally swear to do all you can do to destroy the golems. Agree or disagree?” Disagreeing only gets you into a fight. “I swear.” “As do I.” “Same.” “Of course.” “And I.” “Hurray!” “Thank you for your time.”* * * “Oh Mother-of-us-all!”  “What?” “This spell exists!” On the way back...  Nice to see the game admit to the things we learned from the General.  At least it wasn't Matthias. This time. “Well, that was nice and easy.” You tell Zalifar of your encounter with Dalakros. He nods. “All right then. I will aid you. When I was flying over certain area, I saw a large spire. I must give you information about it.” “Any information would be helpful.” “The Golem's spire is directly northwest of Tevrono. It is magically hidden – it's in a large meadow, and you'll need to look at it and concentrate for several minutes before you can see it. Also of interest are the stone circles.” “What is so interesting about these circles?” “Thank you for your time.”* * * “So, North-west of Tevrono? That's still a wide area to examine. Lots of forest between there and the mountain spine the divides Valorim from the rest of the world by land.” “That's still a lot of ground to cover.” “But if we reach the mountains first, we will know we have gone too far.” “And we should investigate those circles as well.”  “I guess that must have been an aberration in the south with the deer we saw.”* * *  * * *  “Too far.” “And in the other direction.” “These trees are impassable.” “But it seems like the right spot.” “Well, there are un-slain golems. We must be going the right way!” “...” “CHARGE!” These fights are typical. Nothing unusual happens.  “This is .. new.” “Matthias?”  “Alright, we poke a hoe in the barrier, then draw the Golems into it. Standard kill-box.” “My part is done.” “And they saw us!” “And now we wait.” “Animals would be more cunning than this.” “Still dangerous!” “Hrm, that's a lot of them.” “Allow me!” Ah, Wall of Blades. So useful! “And that's all of them. What about that crystal in the middle?” “You mean this one?”  “Just beat on it, and it will go down. Eventually.”    “That's nice. But what did we just do?” “Who cares?” “Anything to set them back is good enough.” “More gems for the final count.” “Alright, that one looked like it was east. The next one should be to the south.” “And from there, we can confirm that the central spire is indeed in that large forest.”  “FOUND IT!” ... Holy poo poo, Bronwyn reached Level 41 in that screenshot. Art is still ahead of her though. “And another repeat.” “Curious. The previous one was guarded by just Flame Golems. This one by just Blades. You would think a mixed group would be more effective?” “Less talking, more smashing!”  “Is anyone else concerned by how easy this appears to be?” “No.” “It's like it's a secret! As long as no one knows, no one can find out, so it doesn't matter how fragile things are!” “What he said.” “Good for you.” “That means the west location is to our west.” “There is a valley to the north. Maybe there?” “Most likely.” “COME FORTH MY PRECIOUS!” “NOO! THE HORSIES!” “So, 50/50. Ice or Acid golems?” “Ice.” “Not much of a challenge.” Not when I've got Art holding the breach point after casting Avatar. The Invincibility does wonders for her survivability. “There's no way over. The rocks are above the Orb's height level.” “And no tunnels either.” “Three of four isn't bad. And perhaps there might be something in the central spire that we could use to get in, or at least find out what he have done.” “Agreed.” “This looks like the place.” “Yeah. Really.” And the Woodsman's Trait allows you to bypass a huge fight! Huh. I had forgotten Matthias even had that.      “ugh..” “What monstrosity is this?”  “It is huge. No doubt about it. And only one way in.”  “Oh. There's a fifth type of Golem.” And next time, I enter the single worst dungeon in the history of Exile. Worse than even the blind, mapless teleporter maze. There are no words for the horror I am about to put myself through for your benefit.
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Apr 7, 2017 05:24
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quote:And next time, I enter the single worst dungeon in the history of Exile. Worse than even the blind, mapless teleporter maze. There are no words for the horror I am about to put myself through for your benefit. Boy is it ever.
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Apr 7, 2017 06:13
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berryjon posted:
I find this hard to believe, but given the name, I suspect the gimmick will be annoying all the same. 
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Apr 7, 2017 08:49
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Oh god, I took one look at that map and now I think I know how a Vietnam flashback feels.
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Apr 7, 2017 08:59
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This looks to be a really long, unfun slog... \Well, thanks for doing it for us. I suck at these games. And Dalakros... Drake, Manna exists as a spell, why would anything as big as you NOT learn that spell? The energy savings over hunting alone would make it worth it.
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Apr 7, 2017 12:33
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He's a Drake, not a Dragon. He may not be capable of much magic.
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Apr 7, 2017 12:52
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I'm just reading, not playing, and I'm feeling a strong sense of dread. To those who haven't played, yes, this dungeon really is that bad.
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Apr 7, 2017 16:11
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berryjon posted:
Without playing this game, but reading your first two Exile LPs thoroughly, I can probably guess that well no poo poo it's the worst; Vogel opened this dungeon with demon golems. And this update was going so well. v v v  Details!
dont be mean to me fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 16:19
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This is not the worst dungeon! That prize is reserved for one of the bonus dungeons, the one to your south. This is pretty bad though. Best advice is to haste up and navigate in combat mode as much as possible.
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Apr 7, 2017 16:34
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I am currently on page 13 during the whole circuit around Whatitsname Island and I really cannot wait until the story moves past it. At that point, the thread has literally turned into a gun control debate with every mention of "gun" copy-pasted over with "magic" and it's every single bit as stupid as that would make you expect. I have absolutely no idea what you were doing not only tolerating that discussion, but actively encouraging it.
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Apr 8, 2017 00:47
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And look at you now, trying to revive it. What does that make you? 
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Apr 8, 2017 00:57
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We can't stop here, this is Demon Golem country. But with a map that huge we can't just mosey on out either!
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Apr 8, 2017 01:18
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:This is pretty bad though. Best advice is to haste up and navigate in combat mode as much as possible. I assume the other one you're talking about is south of Gale, right? As for this dungeon, yeah. Abusing combat multi-moves makes a lot of things easier, if not possible in the first place.
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Apr 8, 2017 01:36
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berryjon posted:I assume the other one you're talking about is south of Gale, right? Yes. It's the sidequest that starts way back in Krizsan Province.
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Apr 8, 2017 01:39
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:And look at you now, trying to revive it. What does that make you?
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Apr 8, 2017 02:16
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GodFish posted:Boy is it ever.
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Apr 8, 2017 02:16
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Parts Kit posted:I felt so accomplished when I finally beat it without resorting the the editor for the first time ever last year. I'm not even pretending to do this dungeon straight. I'm using the editor with no moral or ethical hangups at all TooMuchAbstraction posted:Yes. It's the sidequest that starts way back in Krizsan Province. After I finish the event after the Golems, I am going to do a roundup of those five(?) major sidequests. I've put them off for long enough. Some I could handle right now, but grabbing them all at once seems like the best way to go about it.
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Apr 8, 2017 02:36
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berryjon posted:I'm not even pretending to do this dungeon straight.
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Apr 8, 2017 03:13
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Parts Kit posted:Yeah not using the editor for a LP would be crazy, even if you were trying to minimize its use in other areas. My personal directive where that is concerned is that the Editor is acceptable to supplement the LP, and not to replace the contents. Unless of course, the whole point is modding and breaking the game over your pinky, in which case it should be said so up front.
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Apr 8, 2017 03:34
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My thought has always been that an LP is intended to show off the game. If cheats, editors, mods, etc help do that, then it's fine. If they affect the experience enough that it's no longer the same, then don't - unless that's your entire intent of course.
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Apr 8, 2017 15:50
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In my youth, I never made it past this part and never figured out what you were supposed to do (I think I missed the flying wizard guy), so this will be very cathartic for me. Godspeed, berryjon. 
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Apr 8, 2017 16:24
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Oh god. This place. Back in my youth I used the editor here too. No regrets.
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Apr 8, 2017 19:49
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Update 054 – The Tower of Shifting Floors (1) This place. This forsaken place! More than any other dungeon in the whole trilogy, THIS PLACE I hate. And from comments in the thread, so to do many other people. Therefore, I will be abusing the heck out of the game's cheat editor to restore my HP/SP every so often. This place is un-fun, far too large, and whose gimmick is just a pain in the arse to deal with. So I will be un-fun right back. “CHARGE!” Meet Demon Golems. The final tier of Golem enemy in the game. They come with major spell casting abilities, and often open up with “Summon Host”, which gets them a Deva and four shades. And that's just the start. Shut them down with Anti-Magic clouds as soon as you can. “There are more Golems coming!” There are four rooms right by the entrance here that each contain a half-dozen golems of lesser types. Getting overwhelmed is a very real possibility and we haven't even gotten into the Tower itself yet! “Suppressing!” Ah, Avatar. I am really beginning to love that spell. That little “I” on the shield beside Art's name indicates that she's Invulnerable at this point – which means she takes no damage, and thus is also immune to friendly fire.  “Anti-magic incoming!” “This is some welcome! It's almost like they were expecting this to happen eventually.” “That Golem is down!” “More still come!” “Drawing fire!” That didn't happen. “Ni'aurrl! Throw up Force Barriers!”  I totally forgot this spell has a casting radius of 2 tiles. “What will that do?” “If we can't hold a choke point, we'll make one!” “We just have to wait for another section of the anti-magic to fall down.” “There are a lot of them!” “Don't get ahead of us, dummy!” “Bronwyn! Get back! I can plug the gap!” “I just did” “Sass! Fall back! We have a kill box now.” One battle that went MUCH smoother later... “And that's the last of them.” “Just at the front door.” “Hey, Matthias, can you call that map up again? I want to have a look at it.” “Sure.” “Does anyone recongize anything that isn't floor or walls?” “Not me.” Take a look in the message log. You see that line “You hear a distant clang.”? Well, you will see that message many times during this LP. And every time you do, something very, very bad happens. I'll show exactly what later. Just know that it can happen anywhere from 10-30 turns or steps after the previous one. “What is this place...” “Be careful, there is dust in the air. We can see well enough, but who knows what is in it?” “Curious things.” “I can't move against them though!” And here is the second gimmick to the map. In the case with the above screenshot, Ni'aurrl is on a belt moving to the right. Because of that, she cannot move to the left, to the up-left or to the down-left as that would go against the movement of the belt she is on. You also cannot step onto a belt if it would be in the 'wrong' direction. There is one way to mitigate the headaches this causes, though. And I will come to it later. “So, which way first?” “Up and to the right. As that's where we're going anyway.” “Be careful getting on and off – it's like trying to walk across a slope that's falling down.” “I can't go further.” “Come back and we'll go around.” “It looks like we can go around here.” “Yes, we should be able to see what is inside this thing.” “Except this floor is moving in the wrong direction.” “This is bullshit!” These two screenshots were taken at the same time. As you can see, I can see a couple Golems on the map, but the one right in front of me isn't on the map when Detect Life is cast. “Neat! We can step off just as the floor turns around!” “Except there is nothing here.” “Oh no.” Due to the way the enemy AI works, when combined with the movement of the belts, you will sometimes get instances like this, where two enemies are stacked on top of each other. They will both be affected if I cast a single-tile target spell, but if I try to physically attack, then I'm not sure how it's determined, but only one target will be hit. “Fall back for now! We need to recover.” “Probably a good idea....”   “What happened?!?” “Yeah, that's not good for you.” “It's just the dust in the tower. I'll be fine.” “...” “When you're feeling better, we'll go back in. And cover your mouth.” “I will.” “...” Those Force Barriers have stayed up, giving me a cunning idea to help deal with the spawning points in these four rooms.   Now, Demon Golems do have the innate ability to knock down Barriers like this, like many high-level monsters, but it's enough to contain the lesser types for now. “South-east corner this time.” “At least the moving floors are more spaced out this time.” “I wonder what's in that chest.” “I'm more interested in knowing how it got there.” “And why someone would do so.” Yeah, I'm not going to 100% this dungeon. “In to the north, out to the south.” “A door?” “With an actual floor on the other side?” “It's isolated, so it might be useful.” “Just a pedestal.” “This makes sense.” “Yeah. This is the main floor with the entrance off to the right here.” “The four power stone circles arranged around us. “One underground sections connected to the one in the north.” “There is a symbol in the middle of the top. I suppose that's where the control point is for the whole thing. In the most protected, and hard to reach area.” “I say we go down then north. Take out that last spire first. Then we come back and wipe this place out without any supports left for it.” “Agreed. Now, let's get out of here.” “Let's not take the paths that take us through the lava. Back through this weird machinery.” “There's nothing we can do against these things. They're too tough.” “Perhaps. I may have an option, but I'll need to think on it.” So, you may be wondering what these are. Well, every time you hear a clang, every one of these that you can't see spawns a golem of a random type. In addition to the normal spawn rate of enemies. What makes this worse is that these Clang'd golems DO NOT COUNT against the spawn and kill limits for the dungeon. Which is already set to max. That's right, this dungeon can have more enemies active than any other in the trilogy, but in any given instance, and in total. “About the only good thing I see of this is that we can deal with them piecemeal, rather than letting them marshal and move as a unit.” That didn't happen. “We'll rest up and try again. And replace the cloth over your mouth.” “Art...” “I know.” “North or south west?” “North-west corner.” “I'm confused about the sizes of some of these devices. There appears to be no correlation between the devices and the type of Golem they produce. Yet...” “Ideas?” “Not yet.” Watching these moving floors act in sync is kinda impressive, especially given the engine and the time frame this game was made in. “I wonder why there are metal bars?” “I can collect one?” “No, that won't be necessary.” “This corner seems pretty convoluted.” “Lots of things!” “NOW I'M DIZZY!” “Get off to the left! There's a gap in the machines!” “So there is.” Does this count as sarcasm? That teleporter takes us here, where we can now access that hidden treasure box. Which has a Large Steel Shield in it. That didn't happen. “OK. So the secret to crossing this section is to start on the right, move up against the wall, then move west until you can't go any further, so south and angle into the empty area. Then no north-west around the machinery and west to where I am standing now. Easy!” Took me ten minutes to figure out. “I COULD USE SOME HELP HERE!” Another exploit to use is that when you're moving in combat mode, when you stop, the party is connected in a central location to all party members. So, I can get half the party into this little corridor, end combat mode, and everyone else will teleport over and join up. This makes things so much easier in a few cases.  “Not where we want to go.” “No, but we might as well go though here, just in case.” “And is that a temple over there?” “Yeah, I see it too. Let's get to it. Somehow.” “The only way out is to the south.” “We still need to be careful. There are golems on the belts.” “We should go north, then east here.” “It's not like we can go south.” Do you hate Conveyor Belt mazes? Well, welcome to Floor Two! Your personal nightmare. “Which led us exactly nowhere.” “No, this is nowhere.” “You alright?” “As long as him being sick doesn't make things harder for us. This place is annoying already.” “And we're back where we started. Now just going further south.” “At the end of this is that large pool of molten whatever.” “But we can still cross over.” “More gems!” “Collecting those will mess with our kill count. But then again, we are missing some gems from ones that didn't drop any.” “Taking them!” “While you discuss that, could I get some more help here?” “That looks like bookshelves in the south-west corner. That would be worth investigating.” “At least this belt goes in the right direction.” “But it doesn't make it there.” “Look! A fish!” “No. That's the symbol for Alpha. Written in an old alphabet.” “So, only one way to go.”  “I wonder what's in there?”  “Support pillar, I think. But too tough to take down.” “Moving away from the library. Matthias' map says this is the only way to the south-east corner of this level.” “That's a way out!” “Yeah, out and to where we are.” “But it looks like we can circle around.” “Forced to go back north. But this is odd. There's a large chamber to our north.” “Not unguarded though.” “Hey! A switch!” “I WANNA THROW IT!”  “What did that change?” “Uh, Art, we could have gone back south here.” “I wanna see where this teleporter goes.” “I don't want to wind up in the disposal!”  Still not sure if that's sarcasm or not... I also don't think I've caught the teleporter special effect before! “We appear to be in some sort of crew quarters.” “There's money on the table!” “This is Empire coinage.” “Which means..?” “Nothing. Exile recognizes it as legitimate currency, and the Vahnatai do when dealing with us.” “I hear something moving to the south!” “Investigate?” “Yes.” “what” “oh no” “A Hraithe? That's a Vahnatai undead.” “I know ... Rentar-Ihrno told me that they had agents on the surface, but this...” “A horrible mistake? An agent becoming like this?” “I don't know. I found this in the drawers.” “...” “This has to be a mistake.” “Regardless, we can use this passage to go back south for now.” “And pulling that lever turned this section backwards.” “Those are ...” “More waveblades. Ceremonial.” “Has to be a fake.” “Has to be.” “Buttons on this one!” “STOP THE FACTORY!” “PRESSING THE BUTTON!” “Not Authorized? Well, of course that would be too easy.” “What do the rest of these even mean? Golem activity is set to high. General tactics is also set. We shouldn't mess with that as General Baziron already has that figured out. Power crystals, Mind crystals, two belts. Furnace Draw and Belt Star? And what is Thalen?” “No ideas. What can we change?” “Not much. Just the three belts, the Furnace draw – whatever that means, and the Thalen intensifier.” “Well, there was that symbol – the Alpha – by the library. Perhaps this affects that belt?” “Might as well flip them all, and hope we don't screw ourselves over.” “This other pillar is just as interesting.” “The man is a hero. No two ways about it.” “Agreed. And if Gale were to actually support him, rather than hiding behind their walls, the Golems might have already been destroyed.” “But they don't have the information we do.” “No. They don't. And we'll tell them after we finish this all off.” “There appear to be supplies in the corner.” “...” “These aren't stacked like someone put them down. These are stacked so they can be grabbed and thrown at the entrances to this place.” “....” “I think we should take a breather. There's still a lot more to go.” “A good idea.”
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Apr 8, 2017 21:51
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...are the golems' words backed by nuclear weapons?
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Apr 9, 2017 00:36
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:...are the golems' words backed by nuclear weapons? It's actually the domain of The Master.
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Apr 9, 2017 00:47
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Who new the Vahnatai had knowledge of how factories work? Actually, that is rather suspect.
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Apr 9, 2017 01:10
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Wow, I never found that room before. But I always blitzed through here as fast a possible following a guide, so that'd be why.
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Apr 9, 2017 01:23
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berryjon posted:
More misdirection!  Makes me wonder who actually IS responsible for all this bullshit. We've got at least the Dragons, Erika, and the Vahnatai now, just from who I remember off the top of my head. ... when was the last time we were at Fort Emergence to report, anyway? As for the dungeon's gimmick... I was expecting something bullshitty like the entire dungeon rearranging itself from those clangs. The spawn rate would annoy me a bit, but I've got a pretty good tolerance for conveyor belt type puzzles. And I typically overlevel in RPGs, so the spawn rate wouldn't be -that- bad for me.
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Apr 9, 2017 06:44
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The question is, are they all working together or did they each individually come up with the 'monster plague' idea?
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Apr 9, 2017 07:16
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So, I assume you can't stop the golem output with the Furnace Draw button, at least not without more info. Normally, if I were just guessing about what that one did I'd imagine controlling either how much metal it's pulling out to mold into golems or how hot the furnace is to melt the metal for golems. That seems a little too convenient and likely to stop production for what feels like relatively early in the dungeon when you're not yet allowed to shut things down. Update 53 berryjon posted:Alright, we poke a hoe in the barrier Update 54 berryjon posted:And from comments in the thread, so to do many other people.
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Apr 9, 2017 08:19
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The Lone Badger posted:The question is, are they all working together or did they each individually come up with the 'monster plague' idea? Or are they all being framed by the real bad guy? I think it's the ghost of the old Emperor doing it. He was an rear end in a top hat. 
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Apr 9, 2017 11:07
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berryjon posted:
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Apr 9, 2017 11:32
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MagusofStars posted:You can actually do more than that. When you enter combat mode, your guys sort of spread out behind the first character (Art). If you're in a narrow corridor, they actually get into a big long line. So because it puts you in a central location when you end combat, if you enter and then immediately leave combat, you end up teleporting backwards a few spots. So you can abuse this to effectively move against the conveyor belts. Indeed, you can use this technique to sequence break and skip one of the puzzles in this dungeon. At least, I'm pretty sure you can; it doesn't work with solo characters, which is what I used the last couple times I played through.
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Apr 9, 2017 15:33
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A couple of things I'd like to point out this time. First, I'm not sure if you know this (it seems like you probably do but didn't do it because it's revealed later), but the golem-making machines CAN be destroyed with Dispel Barrier. However, there are so many of those machines on the first floor that it doesn't help much unless you try going after all of them, and the flavour-text implies that the destruction is only temporary, so I'm not sure how long the destruction lasts. Secondly, I've forgotten - did Art ever confront the Vahnatai over the Giants/Trogs evidence?
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Apr 9, 2017 16:29
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The problem with accusing the Vahnatai is they're a much larger group than Erika or the dragons. Rampant destruction of everyone on the surface would probably rule out most, so we're probably looking at a sub set of the collective with very powerful magicians at their disposal.
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Apr 9, 2017 16:51
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Really the Vahnatai are the easiest to understand here. They got well hosed by the Empire and there are probably quite a lot of people down there calling out for revenge.
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Apr 9, 2017 19:57
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But the Vahnatai didn't seem to be this mechanically minded. Out of the plagues we've had so far this one and cockroaches involved a lot of automated machinery. Trogs and Giants were just some sort of really big spell or series of spells. After the magic wall went up they were pretty much left to it. Also, we've found various small bits of evidence, but have yet to fight anyone beside the plague monsters themselves, and accompanying environmental monsters, in the various source dungeons. Whoever is doing this always seems to be well gone by the time we get there and are pretty good about covering their tracks, so these weapons now feel a little odd, since previously it was sort of the occasional forgotten discard, not an entire half stocked room. Seems weird to have a comparatively large amount of evidence, especially gear for fighting off intruders, when whoever was here seems to be still as long-absent as ever. Even that section in Exile near the town with the lethargic sliths, that may or may not be involved since there wasn't much to investigate, had the magically melted cave-in to blockade and destroy whatever was going on there.
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Apr 9, 2017 20:42
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LuffyVeggies posted:First, I'm not sure if you know this (it seems like you probably do but didn't do it because it's revealed later), but the golem-making machines CAN be destroyed with Dispel Barrier. However, there are so many of those machines on the first floor that it doesn't help much unless you try going after all of them, and the flavour-text implies that the destruction is only temporary, so I'm not sure how long the destruction lasts. Whaaaaaaaaaaat.
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Apr 9, 2017 21:04
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