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I only feel like I have 2 real criticisms about Iron Fist. I understand why people didn't like Danny or the themes of the season, but I was cool with them. Its maybe my least favorite of the Defenders shows but I enjoyed it in its own way. My first criticism is that I just didn't like Ward and I didn't care for the Ward/Joy role flip they seemed to try there at the end. Sure, Ward was a victim of his father but he was also pretty unhinged and was very much Danny's enemy even plotting his death a couple of times. Joy on the other hand spent the entire season being sympathetic to Danny and reconsidering her own actions and morals in light of his. So the last couple of episodes flip of Ward becoming Danny's ally and Joy seemingly turning against him felt forced and too sudden. I can give it a temporary pass for the moment as Ward simply working with Danny for convenience and Joy just grieving her father and being messed up by all the craziness of the last few days. So I'll reserve full judgment until we see how it plays out. But it didn't feel right to me at all. The other one is that I agree they could have done more with Davos and Kun Lun. Not dragons and stuff because that would have been too tonally different and probably played weird like the Hand did in DD S2. But there could have been a lot more character stuff instead of Danny just telling stories about Davos. I did kind of like the way they introduced Davos awhile before revealing who was, and that was effectively done because there were no flashbacks with him and only stories. But they could have shown training, or a kid Davos. Stuff to show how Davos and Danny were trained together with the same principles and Danny betrayed them. It would have given that plot a little more weight and probably could have sacrificed some of the corporate espionage stuff.
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Apr 9, 2017 07:53
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Oh no, they've stripped Danny of everything but his shares in the company. Which means he still controls enough shares to elect a majority of the board and reverse all these decision that he doesn't like. You can't really be fired from something you own.
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Apr 9, 2017 11:23
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No one writing for this show understand how anything works
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Apr 9, 2017 14:31
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STAC Goat posted:
Most of the show makes sense to me if the secret theme of the show is "chi pollution." Chi pollution broke Harold long ago, Ward toward the beginning, Danny toward the middle, and Joy & Davos at the end. Loss of control/loss of true self afflict all of them. Colleen even loses herself briefly with the fight club, but her Bushido and higher calling with Bakuto allow her to recover faster than anybody. Claire is still a wasted mess. The show is still a wasted mess. Hollismason posted:No one writing for this show understand how anything works And I should add I know zero about chi-as-it-"exists", all this is based on show logic.
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Apr 9, 2017 14:39
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I mean, I'll take y'all's word that there is a theme to the show (though I'm not so far seeing anything that Life didn't explore better a decade ago with what is really close to being the same premise), and I'm almost certainly going to watch the rest, but that was not a great beginning.
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Apr 9, 2017 16:58
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As a side note, "that's not how X works!" must be one of the dumbest loving criticisms of these types of shows.
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Apr 9, 2017 17:35
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enraged_camel posted:As a side note, "that's not how X works!" must be one of the dumbest loving criticisms of these types of shows. I disagree, it depends on what it's applied to. Getting all mad about how fast a character recovers from broken ribs or how easily they escape from police is silly, sure, but there are also a whole lot of outright plot points/holes that are just insulting to the viewer. The whole thing with the board of directors made absolutely no sense, and didn't even wind up being that important, other than giving Joy a reason to sulk for a couple episodes.
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Apr 9, 2017 17:51
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http://www.cracked.com/article_19611_6-things-movies-love-to-get-wrong-about-workplace.html There are other types of votes besides just simple majority.
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Apr 9, 2017 17:54
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docbeard posted:I mean, I'll take y'all's word that there is a theme to the show (though I'm not so far seeing anything that Life didn't explore better a decade ago with what is really close to being the same premise), and I'm almost certainly going to watch the rest, but that was not a great beginning. What year was that made? Apparently there's like 20 different movies called Life.
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Apr 9, 2017 18:19
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enraged_camel posted:As a side note, "that's not how X works!" must be one of the dumbest loving criticisms of these types of shows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouMV8EhR3Jw
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Apr 9, 2017 18:34
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docbeard posted:I mean, I'll take y'all's word that there is a theme to the show (though I'm not so far seeing anything that Life didn't explore better a decade ago with what is really close to being the same premise), and I'm almost certainly going to watch the rest, but that was not a great beginning. I interpreted the theme to be about the differences between the Western world and Eastern culture, which are portrayed using Rand corporation and its internal power struggles on the one side and Kun Lun and its fight with The Hand on the other side. This theme represents Danny's inner conflict, angst and identity crisis. The show explores it fairly well by putting him in situations where his previous teachings come at odds with the current reality and vice versa, resulting in him spiraling further out of control and temporarily losing his special ability. He eventually reconciles his past with his present and gets over his guilt. This is symbolized by him getting back together with Colleen, who shows him that life is not about absolutes. By forgiving her, he forgives himself.
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Apr 9, 2017 18:49
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notthegoatseguy posted:What year was that made? Apparently there's like 20 different movies called Life. I assume they mean the very good 2009 tv show with Damian Lewis, which has a slightly similar fish out of water premise. But with a detective rather than a magic Kung fu dude.
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Apr 9, 2017 18:58
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homullus posted:Most of the show makes sense to me if the secret theme of the show is "chi pollution." Chi pollution broke Harold long ago, Ward toward the beginning, Danny toward the middle, and Joy & Davos at the end. Loss of control/loss of true self afflict all of them. Colleen even loses herself briefly with the fight club, but her Bushido and higher calling with Bakuto allow her to recover faster than anybody. I don't really need to go on some "chi-theory" to make it "make sense." Everyone in the cast is lied to and manipulated since childhood and gets their world turned upside down during the series. Irrational behavior or extreme reactions aren't in any way uncommon in those kind of circumstances, even without the comic book turning up of it. Like, I don't like that Joy turned on Danny at the end without him really doing anything to her but I don't necessarily think its any more irrational an action then could be "justified" by her recently being kidnapped by Japanese mafia because her dead father had been resurrected by magic ninjas who were holding him captive for 10 years while he controlled the company through her brother and her childhood friend who she thought was dead for 15 years was trained by magical monks to destroy the magic ninjas with his magical power but now wants to kill her dad who she's only known was alive for like five minutes. Institution would not have been an entirely unreasonable consequence of that turn of events. So like I said, I can give at least a temporary pass for her being so messed up that she just sees Danny as the common link and is lashing out. But that would be more poor motivation if she were to become a main villain in a future season.
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Apr 9, 2017 21:01
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Saint Freak posted:http://www.cracked.com/article_19611_6-things-movies-love-to-get-wrong-about-workplace.html 2/3rds voting and minority oppression rules wouldn't lead to the board being able to oust Danny and the Meachems in a secret meeting. Well, I mean they could, but Danny and the Meachems could just install a new board the next time they got a chance. If minority shareholders wanted to claim oppression about it, they'd have to take it to court.
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Apr 9, 2017 22:48
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The board is just those 7 people or whatever with a vote a piece. They can easily vote them out. Replacing the board is up to shareholders which they probably don't have enough votes among them to do.
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Apr 9, 2017 22:58
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enraged_camel posted:As a side note, "that's not how X works!" must be one of the dumbest loving criticisms of these types of shows. There's degrees of pedantry. There's a difference between "Lol are we really supposed to believe that Danny could drive from Upper Manhattan to south Brooklyn in 15 minutes at 6PM on a Friday? Go gently caress yourself Marvel" and "The windshield wiper fluid reservoir is not 'essentially a car's swim bladder' and you cannot control a car's buoyancy by expelling or refilling windshield wiper fluid. And even if you could, Aston Martins can't operate underwater in the first place, so the entire third act of Iron Fist S02E03 makes no sense"
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Apr 9, 2017 23:02
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Saint Freak posted:The board is just those 7 people or whatever with a vote a piece. They can easily vote them out. Replacing the board is up to shareholders which they probably don't have enough votes among them to do. Danny owns 51 percent of the shares of the firm, so he alone has enough votes. Presumably the Meachums own another large chunk.
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Apr 9, 2017 23:08
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Guy Goodbody posted:There's degrees of pedantry. There's a difference between "Lol are we really supposed to believe that Danny could drive from Upper Manhattan to south Brooklyn in 15 minutes at 6PM on a Friday? Go gently caress yourself Marvel" and "The windshield wiper fluid reservoir is not 'essentially a car's swim bladder' and you cannot control a car's buoyancy by expelling or refilling windshield wiper fluid. And even if you could, Aston Martins can't operate underwater in the first place, so the entire third act of Iron Fist S02E03 makes no sense" Both of those sound incredibly  to me.
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Apr 9, 2017 23:31
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Also, that Cracked article explicitly states that a corporation's voting rules depend on both that corporation's charter as well as the relevant laws in which it is based. Danny's dad was the founder of Rand, so he could easily have had the rules written to favor his family and that of Harold. I mean poo poo, I probably would if I started my own corp. Basically, corp law is incredibly complex. That's why you many corporations keep law firms on retainer. Criticizing a show for "getting it wrong" is dumb because considering the bajillion possible combinations of corp law and corp charter, they probably accurately represented at least a few.
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Apr 9, 2017 23:35
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marktheando posted:I assume they mean the very good 2009 tv show with Damian Lewis, which has a slightly similar fish out of water premise. But with a detective rather than a magic Kung fu dude. I should probably watch it again because it was a very good show. But it should be noted that the main character's development of and conflict with Buddhist beliefs was insanely better than Danny's random drops of pearls of wisdom or showy displays of college Buddhist hipsterism. Saint Freak posted:The board is just those 7 people or whatever with a vote a piece. They can easily vote them out. Replacing the board is up to shareholders which they probably don't have enough votes among them to do. Danny owns 51% of the company as the last Rand standing, and the heirs to the co-founder of Rand Inc who have also been serving as high level executives in the company for several years are also going to have a pretty big chunk of shares. Leaving that aside, a forced buyout of their shares at less than market value or the seizure of said shares with no compensation is also a dumb as loving poo poo thing for the board to vote to do. Then of course we have the issue that even if we pretend it wasn't a bunch of really stupid poo poo that wouldn't happen, it meant nothing at all to the plot. Danny was still running around doing the same thing he was before, while Ward and Joy spent all of 5 minutes wondering what to do before Harold did what he was going to do anyway and seized control of the company. We already knew Ward wanted out but Joy didn't and that Harold had been playing the long game in order to come back from the dead and retake what he saw as his company. I guess maybe the one board member with a name got a couple more scenes than he would have before being shot dead by Harold. Oh yeah, we also got a reference to Jessica Jones. enraged_camel posted:Both of those sound incredibly Yes, I agree, complaining that you can't just drive a normal car underwater like a submarine is definitely spergy. Who could possibly think that would be dumb?
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Apr 9, 2017 23:39
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Gyges posted:Yes, I agree, complaining that you can't just drive a normal car underwater like a submarine is definitely spergy. Who could possibly think that would be dumb? It depends on the context. I'm not familiar with the Aston Martin example, but if it happened in a James Bond movie, then yes, it would be spergy as gently caress. Reasons are pretty obvious 
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Apr 10, 2017 00:15
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Did Danny actually ever identify as Buddhist? I thought they kind of went out of their way to avoid that clarification. Like the tone to me seemed to be that everyone kind of assumed that the monks who raised him were Buddhist but when Danny was asked he'd evade the question and the little stories he told of beatings and magic seemed to suggest something else entirely.
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Apr 10, 2017 00:21
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enraged_camel posted:It depends on the context. I'm not familiar with the Aston Martin example, but if it happened in a James Bond movie, then yes, it would be spergy as gently caress. Reasons are pretty obvious The context given was Danny Rand suddenly driving his Aston Martin underwater and using the wiper fluid to dive and surface in Iron Fist season two episode three. i.e. not James Bond STAC Goat posted:Did Danny actually ever identify as Buddhist? I thought they kind of went out of their way to avoid that clarification. Like the tone to me seemed to be that everyone kind of assumed that the monks who raised him were Buddhist but when Danny was asked he'd evade the question and the little stories he told of beatings and magic seemed to suggest something else entirely. Danny does a "Buddhist prayer" before billionaire take out and gives a plea to Buddha, and I think some other dudes, before Iron Fisting down the elevator cable. In addition to his random sprinklings of koans and some flower arranging he says is Buddhist. Also the robes and Kung Fu monks are clear Shaolin knock offs. Gyges fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 01:18
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Gyges posted:The context given was Danny Rand suddenly driving his Aston Martin underwater and using the wiper fluid to dive and surface in Iron Fist season two episode three. That didn't happen though. 
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Apr 10, 2017 02:02
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I don't remember that, either, but frankly, Danny driving a car like a submarine in the manner described could have only improved this show.
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Apr 10, 2017 05:59
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Gyges posted:season two episode three
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Apr 10, 2017 06:22
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For anyone interested in watching Life, I suggest trying to find some other way than the official home release of it. They lost/couldn't afford paying licensing again for the incredible soundtrack, and the music they replaced it with was some pretty lame poo poo in comparison. The music in that show as aired was phenomenal and really helped to set the tone. If you're opposed to pirating it, or have no way to find TV rips or whatever it's still worth watching with the replaced music. It probably won't matter as much for fresh viewers as it would for people revisiting it, but still.
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Apr 10, 2017 06:31
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esperterra posted:For anyone interested in watching Life, I suggest trying to find some other way than the official home release of it. They lost/couldn't afford paying licensing again for the incredible soundtrack, and the music they replaced it with was some pretty lame poo poo in comparison. Oh god drat it. If they replaced the music on my iTunes version I'm going to be super pissed. One thing about the show that I liked was when they found out it wasn't being renewed, they managed to wrap up the main story-arc in a fairly satisfying manner. I'm going to have to do a re-watch. But if the music changed, It's going to distract the hell out of me. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 13:20
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I really enjoyed all the Netflix MCU shows until Iron Fist. I made it 1.75 episodes deep and I just do not care at all about any character, story or thing on this show to motivate me to grit my teeth and watch further. Nothing about it is compelling and I hate Danny's face. Can't take a skinnyfat white dude with a curly fro and homeless beard seriously, go to sleep forever. I'm going to wait for the next MCU show and just pretend Iron Fist doesn't exist. There's too much good stuff on TV to suffer through boring things for the sake of completion.
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Apr 10, 2017 16:32
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enraged_camel posted:As a side note, "that's not how X works!" must be one of the dumbest loving criticisms of these types of shows. That's not how criticism works
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Apr 10, 2017 16:59
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McSpanky posted:That's not how criticism works 
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Apr 10, 2017 16:59
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https://twitter.com/AsyiqinHaron/status/851325687721893888
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Apr 10, 2017 17:00
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flosofl posted:Oh god drat it. If they replaced the music on my iTunes version I'm going to be super pissed. Not sure about the iTunes version, just know the music on my DVDs is different. Hope your copies are as aired! Agreed about how they managed to wrap it up. Hell, my only issue with season two was how little Sarah Shahi was in it due to how massively pregnant she was. Though baby bump watch is always a fun game when shows try to hide it behind blazers and desks.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:46
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Wamsutta posted:I really enjoyed all the Netflix MCU shows until Iron Fist. I made it 1.75 episodes deep and I just do not care at all about any character, story or thing on this show to motivate me to grit my teeth and watch further. Nothing about it is compelling and I hate Danny's face. Can't take a skinnyfat white dude with a curly fro and homeless beard seriously, go to sleep forever. I'm going to wait for the next MCU show and just pretend Iron Fist doesn't exist. There's too much good stuff on TV to suffer through boring things for the sake of completion. I mean, I'd be inclined to say that the story picks up when they get into the Hand and Colleen Wing stuff and past the intros, but if you have that much visceral hate for Danny that's never going to change. So you're right, there's too much TV to force yourself to watch something where you want the main character to die on principle. Especially this one where he'll probably just keep grating you more and more.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:36
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also, lol at calling danny "skinny fat" he has about the same physique as matt murdock
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Apr 10, 2017 20:45
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I feel like complaints about his physique are silly until Defenders rolls around and we see if he's changed much with more prep time. Even then it's not that big a deal, imo. Sure he doesn't have washboard abs or whatever, but kung fu stars don't need to be jacked-- especially if they can pull off the choreography. Hopefully he improves in that, at the very least, when he returns to the role.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:51
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esperterra posted:I feel like complaints about his physique are silly until Defenders rolls around and we see if he's changed much with more prep time. Even then it's not that big a deal, imo. Sure he doesn't have washboard abs or whatever, but kung fu stars don't need to be jacked-- especially if they can pull off the choreography. Hopefully he improves in that, at the very least, when he returns to the role. kung fu stars do, however, benefit from being able to balance on one leg for more than half a second. the scenes where he meditates all cut the shot constantly or show him from the waist up to cover for his total lack of balance
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Apr 10, 2017 20:53
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enraged_camel posted:also, lol at calling danny "skinny fat" No, Charlie Cox actually looks like he works out. Which is a benefit of giving your star more than 3 weeks to get ready for your show.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:54
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I had no problem with his physique and kind of liked the way they made his fighting seem "effortless" and "softer" compared to Colleen's. Like I bought that he could just do damage with less force because he was some magical master, which then made it sort of cool when he resorted to the iron fist which was full brute force.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:55
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I'm not done but I got to the part where the revelation is he can open his fist to do other magic stuff and thought it was pretty funny. Like he never once loving tried to open his hand while Iron fisting.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:42
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