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HEY NONG MAN posted:
I once had vessel delayed for a full shift in Baltimore because a night crane operator took a break to have a wank and fell asleep for the rest of the shift. We need more unions and the occasional negative incidents are small in comparison to the benefits they bring to the whole system. The power imbalances when they aren't present are bad for all sides, including manangement. Edit:  Thanks. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 07:08
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I like dogs.
Peachfart fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 07:13
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BrandorKP posted:I once had vessel delayed for a full shift in Baltimore because a night crane operator took a break to have a wank and fell asleep for the rest of the shift. We need more unions and the occasional negative incidents are small in comparison to the benefits they bring to the whole system. The power imbalances when they aren't present are bad for all sides, including manangement. One thing I noticed after working non-union jobs for my whole life then suddenly taking a union protected job is that unions create a sharp division between the workforce and "the company". However, unless it's a family owned business and you're in the family that owns it, that's how it should be.
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Apr 8, 2017 07:17
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Peachfart posted:I just wonder about the lack of heart someone must have to panic and have a breakdown because an income tax that only affects a small percentage of income over 50k is suggested, and to use part of it to lower sales taxes to assist the poor. Quit being so simplistic. I'm already in favor of such a plan and yet folks like you, twodot and Anthony can't loving wrap your head around the fact that this issue is much more complicated. You're more interested in cheap burns then actual discussion.
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Apr 8, 2017 15:01
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Solkanar512 posted:Quit being so simplistic. I'm already in favor of such a plan and yet folks like you, twodot and Anthony can't loving wrap your head around the fact that this issue is much more complicated. You're more interested in cheap burns then actual discussion. Please explain why this is complicated. Since you are interested in actual discussion.
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Apr 8, 2017 20:45
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I'm relatively new to this thread and already respect a lot of the posters here but it's true that there's lots of sophistry and hasty attacks. Sometimes people express themselves halfway. Get clarification and meet them halfway before jumping on something they arguably didn't mean through bright-eyed pedantry. There's enough actual garbage in this thread to point out.
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Apr 8, 2017 22:27
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Peachfart posted:Please explain why this is complicated. Since you are interested in actual discussion. Did you not see the long post I made yesterday where I talked about the additional cost of being made to work long hours while admitting that it would be difficult to legislate properly?
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Apr 8, 2017 22:55
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Solkanar512 posted:Quit being so simplistic. I'm already in favor of such a plan and yet folks like you, twodot and Anthony can't loving wrap your head around the fact that this issue is much more complicated. You're more interested in cheap burns then actual discussion.
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Apr 8, 2017 23:06
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Also, here's an article about a ton of concurrent Portland Police "scandals" http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-portland-oregon-police-2017-story.html
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Apr 8, 2017 23:47
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Solkanar512 posted:Did you not see the long post I made yesterday where I talked about the additional cost of being made to work long hours while admitting that it would be difficult to legislate properly? Your concerns aren't realistic, if the idea is to impose an income tax on those earning over 50k it doesn't matter how hard it was to earn. Just because it was really hard work to earn 60k doesn't mean you should be exempt from taxes. Feel free to earn less money if you don't want to pay the tax, but I assure you that won't happen.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:03
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ElCondemn posted:Your concerns aren't realistic, if the idea is to impose an income tax on those earning over 50k it doesn't matter how hard it was to earn. Just because it was really hard work to earn 60k doesn't mean you should be exempt from taxes. Feel free to earn less money if you don't want to pay the tax, but I assure you that won't happen. Funny, I was pretty loving clear about how unrealistic it would be to implement yet folks keep skipping that part of the post.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:12
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I don't understand why companies can't be "coerced" via payroll tax to give up the indentured servitude via overtime. If they had to pay the employee 1.5x * $hourly and then 2.0x * $hourly on their payroll taxes, surely at some point it becomes more cost effective to hire another employee over working one to death. They're clearly already done the calculus and 1.5x * $15 * 20hrs to move boxes around a warehouse comes out on their side almost 100% of the time.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:12
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Solkanar512 posted:Funny, I was pretty loving clear about how unrealistic it would be to implement yet folks keep skipping that part of the post. Please be more explicit, maybe people keep responding to your comments in a way you don't like because you're not being CLEAR. SeaborneClink posted:I don't understand why companies can't be "coerced" via payroll tax to give up the indentured servitude via overtime. Even at 1.5x hourly it's bad business to allow OT. You can't run a successful business if your payroll expenses are constantly above what you've budgeted for.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:34
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SeaborneClink posted:I don't understand why companies can't be "coerced" via payroll tax to give up the indentured servitude via overtime. This is the inverse of what was originally suggested(not taxing overtime). However your suggestion would be more reasonable... as long as we had a good reason to do so. I can see reasoning behind doing this, so as to provide a disincentive for overworking your employee. But just this rule on its own would push more people into salary instead of hourly. You would need enhanced protection for salary employees, and preferably limits on their hours as well. Anyways, this is way way past where I was at when I suggested the horrible sin of taxing a small amount of income over 50k and reducing sales taxes. I'm just tired of living in a 'blue state' that fucks the poor harder than any other state in the USA. And it's not a very complicated or expensive fix for anyone who couldn't afford it. It's not full communism now, but it is a definite way to help people.
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Apr 9, 2017 03:36
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Yeah sorry I forgot to include that last bit as I was phone posting. I was going to add ADDENDUM: This would like result in people being put on salary for $14.75 turning a wrench (no disrespect blue collar people) I'd be pissed being on salary for the equivalent of $11.25/hr being a keyboard helldesk jockey too.
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Apr 9, 2017 06:19
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anthonypants posted:Also, here's an article about a ton of concurrent Portland Police "scandals" http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-portland-oregon-police-2017-story.html quote:With yet another police chief under suspicion and on forced leave, Portland, Ore., seems to have taken another step towards becoming a real life “Portlandia,” the absurdist TV series. kill me
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Apr 9, 2017 07:08
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Yeah don't you remember that Portlandia skit where the cops came in and bootfucked Fred and Carrie for like the entire episode?
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Apr 9, 2017 07:10
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HEY NONG MAN posted:Yeah don't you remember that Portlandia skit where the cops came in and bootfucked Fred and Carrie for like the entire episode? I'd watch that
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Apr 9, 2017 07:45
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HEY NONG MAN posted:2) Anywhere from 6 to 40 units taking the space of the previous house. The high occupancy buildings (re: 40 units) are typically micro housing with common kitchens. "Micro housing" means closets for barely under $1000/mo. From today: 
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Apr 9, 2017 09:40
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It should be a capital offense to charge more than $1 per square foot of space. also kinda relevant (warning: nudity) Freakazoid_ fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 15:33
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Hey look humans might do better when they dont live in ant nests.quote:As predicted by the theory, population density is negatively, and frequency of socialization with friends is positively, associated with life satisfaction. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26847844 Countdown until all goons claim to be the super-intelligent outliers.
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Apr 9, 2017 22:51
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ElCondemn posted:Even at 1.5x hourly it's bad business to allow OT. You can't run a successful business if your payroll expenses are constantly above what you've budgeted for. You just budget for the OT. Payroll tax should scale with hours worked. Anything under 30 hours or over 40 hours and it starts climbing. oxbrain fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 23:18
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FRINGE posted:Hey look humans might do better when they dont live in ant nests. Come for the evopsych, stay for the IQ tests! It's like racist pseudoscience bingo.
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Apr 9, 2017 23:29
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oxbrain posted:You just budget for the OT. But why budget for OT when you could get the same work for less money if you just hire two hourly employees and split the time? Especially in cases like that liar earlier was saying, regularly having hourly employees work 70+ hours doesn't make good business sense. I think we should start increasing payroll taxes well below the 40 hour mark. That way we drive total work hours down and hire more people. Pair that with a indexed minimum wage and were on our way to an ideal work week.
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Apr 10, 2017 01:56
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ElCondemn posted:But why budget for OT when you could get the same work for less money if you just hire two hourly employees and split the time? There are cases were one can't. Some fields are sonofabitch to hire quickly for. An example, in my job there are things I do that only a couple hundred people in the world are credentialed for. It takes 3+ years to get a new hire up to speed. By the time we could staff up, things are in a trough again.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:12
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ElCondemn posted:But why budget for OT when you could get the same work for less money if you just hire two hourly employees and split the time? Especially in cases like that liar earlier was saying, regularly having hourly employees work 70+ hours doesn't make good business sense. It's super common in the skilled trades. I know plenty of machinists and welders that do 60+ almost every week. Some things just don't scale well. Either you don't have the space/equipment for more people or you'd have to add another shift and deal with all the poo poo that comes with. And after benefits and administrative costs it's closer to a 20% increase from base pay.
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Apr 10, 2017 03:01
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BrandorKP posted:There are cases were one can't. Some fields are sonofabitch to hire quickly for. An example, in my job there are things I do that only a couple hundred people in the world are credentialed for. It takes 3+ years to get a new hire up to speed. By the time we could staff up, things are in a trough again. You have a job that takes 3+ years to get a new hire up to speed and it's hourly? That seems incredibly unlikely, and even if it were true it still makes sense to train multiple people up and split the work among more workers. If the job is so skilled that there are only a handful of people doing it and nobody would work the job part time then you're talking about a salaried position with lots of job security, at that point it would make sense to amortize your payroll expenses over the long term and staff for the peaks. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's ridiculous to base any policy on these weird edge cases.
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Apr 10, 2017 03:05
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oxbrain posted:It's super common in the skilled trades. I know plenty of machinists and welders that do 60+ almost every week. Some things just don't scale well. Either you don't have the space/equipment for more people or you'd have to add another shift and deal with all the poo poo that comes with. I know plenty of machinists and welders, none of them are doing OT for years at a time. Certainly work comes in waves in those fields, but they don't consistently have a single person doing the job of two, that is why they hire apprentices ALL THE TIME. I'm not really sure how you're coming to the conclusion that hiring hourly employees is administratively expensive... but maybe you haven't run a business before?
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Apr 10, 2017 03:10
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ElCondemn posted:You have a job that takes 3+ years to get a new hire up to speed and it's hourly? That seems incredibly unlikely, and even if it were true it still makes sense to train multiple people up and split the work among more workers. If the job is so skilled that there are only a handful of people doing it and nobody would work the job part time then you're talking about a salaried position with lots of job security, at that point it would make sense to amortize your payroll expenses over the long term and staff for the peaks. I'm not hourly (except on weekends and holidays) but there are similar circumstances for some hourly employees in related fields. On the other hand these tend to be very well compensated situations. I'd personally rather have less money and fewer hours regardless.
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Apr 10, 2017 03:20
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ElCondemn posted:I know plenty of machinists and welders, none of them are doing OT for years at a time. Certainly work comes in waves in those fields, but they don't consistently have a single person doing the job of two, that is why they hire apprentices ALL THE TIME. Really, because every machinist and welder I know has worked mandatory OT for months at a go. Things slow down sometimes but never for long. Typically it is mandatory 10s with a half day on Saturday or Sunday but an invitation to work more, and sometimes the half days become full days. Regardless trying to tax ot differently (higher or lower) would be a logistical nightmare prone to abuse and would make people hate our tax system and government even more. Taxing income above a certain level at a higher rate (ie what we have now in most places with state income tax) makes a lot more sense and is way easier. But I get the sense that a lot of people hate blue collar workers that manage white collar incomes for some reason. Why try and screw with the OT that pays for thier vacations, boats, and college for thier kids just because you wouldn't want to work as many hours? That is what takes them from getting by to thriving financially. Percieved liberal antipathy towards working class people is what lost the election for the dems.
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Apr 10, 2017 04:23
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RuanGacho posted:Seattle mayors seem to have a pretty short career span in general. I don't remember the last time there was a Seattle mayor that people didn't think hadn't hosed up some particular thing badly. A few pages ago before TAXES came up, but Norm Rice was a pretty cool dude. He left office for arguably the worst mayor ever - Paul Schell, who's biggest claim to fame was hosting the ill-advised WTO meeting in Seattle.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:02
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Wages are just a small part of the cost. Think about how much it costs to insure two employees vs one.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:24
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HEY NONG MAN posted:Wages are just a small part of the cost. Think about how much it costs to insure two employees vs one. The solution obviously is to cut benefits to hire a second worker!
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Apr 10, 2017 19:46
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Jack2142 posted:The solution obviously is to cut benefits to hire a second worker!
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Apr 10, 2017 19:59
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anthonypants posted:Whoever pays you ought to give you a massive bonus to retain such a brilliant, highly-specialized skillset. This does tend to work for a while, but it doesn't work forever.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:47
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anthonypants posted:Whoever pays you ought to give you a massive bonus to retain such a brilliant, highly-specialized skillset. I try sometimes to apply the lessons I learned in business school.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:07
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anthonypants posted:Whoever pays you ought to give you a massive bonus to retain such a brilliant, highly-specialized skillset. I start off every salary negotiation with my Liam Neeson impersonation, it's gotten me far #lifehacks
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Apr 10, 2017 22:08
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Finally, some good news http://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...ievers-preacher
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Apr 10, 2017 23:56
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Hey you guys love transit news, right? Well, TriMet is building a jail.
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Apr 12, 2017 03:19
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what the gently caress
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