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The main problem with mvp is that they have too many biased company people voting for the awards. Why are team beat writers deciding the legacy and money of players?
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Apr 9, 2017 14:40
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Tae posted:The main problem with mvp is that they have too many biased company people voting for the awards. Why are team beat writers deciding the legacy and money of players? They aren't anymore, iirc. Team broadcasters definitely don't get a vote now.
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Apr 9, 2017 15:06
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https://twitter.com/jwquick/status/...point-milestone
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Apr 9, 2017 15:58
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Dejan Bimble posted:Why does the MVP always come down to semantic argument between "best production by a player, best production by a player on a good team, best player overall" Because discussing value is hard. Personally, I remain optimistic that if we really wanted to carefully sort it out we could come to a mutually acceptable understanding of value. Possibly over a Pepsi.
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Apr 9, 2017 16:12
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Hand Knit posted:Because discussing value is hard. Personally, I remain optimistic that if we really wanted to carefully sort it out we could come to a mutually acceptable understanding of value. Possibly over a Pepsi. I'm having a Pepsi right now, and the way Steph has carried the team while Durant was out has pushed him to the top of the pack on my li
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Apr 9, 2017 16:14
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I like the NHL model people were discussing. It would be cool to also have an award voted on by the players that determines who is the best and isn't completely tied to team success/narrative
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Apr 9, 2017 16:36
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Wasn't the award voted on by players in the 50's - 70's and they were even worse at it than the media?
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Apr 9, 2017 16:54
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https://twitter.com/Scott_CEOofSUH/status/851067070900953088
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Apr 9, 2017 16:56
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Don't let players vote for awards.
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Apr 9, 2017 17:37
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The father of basketball advanced stats looks at Westbrook's triple doubles. http://www.rawbw.com/~deano/articles/20170403_Westbrook_Not_MVP.htm quote:Now about those triple doubles... Westbrook’s triple doubles have less meaning to winning than other players' triple doubles. The chart below shows his triple doubles and the number of points he added to the team and you can see 11 games where he actually cost them points - through turnovers, missed shots, bad defense, etc. Not entirely coincidentally, the Thunder have been outscored with Westbrook on the court in 11 of his 40 triple doubles (the red bars on the plot). This is a higher rate than for other players when getting triple doubles this year. In 24 of Westbrook's triple doubles, he has shot under 40% effective or committed at least 7 turnovers. The rest of the league has 68 triple doubles and only 16 of those involved a player with 7+ turnovers or worse than 40% shooting. If MVP voters go for Westbrook because of his per-game averages in points, rebounds, and assists, they are falling for the headling and ignoring a lot of very meaningful stats, including turnovers, shooting percentage, efficiency, and wins.
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Apr 9, 2017 17:43
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advanced stats has finally found the most important stat of all: Wins
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Apr 9, 2017 17:50
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dokmo posted:The father of basketball advanced stats looks at Westbrook's triple doubles. OKC win % when RW has a triple double - .780 OKC win % when RW doesn't have a triple double: .342
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Apr 9, 2017 18:00
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RW had like 8 TOs when he nearly got that Triple Double in PHX a few days ago.
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Apr 9, 2017 18:04
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42% FG on the 10th best team in the league should never win MVP
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Apr 9, 2017 18:04
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I think the article might be hinting that if you vote for RW, don't do it just because he hit 3 arbitrary benchmarks, he does actual stuff besides that
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Apr 9, 2017 18:07
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wandler20 posted:OKC win % when RW has a triple double - .780 Any team win% when a player has a triple double: .773 Big deal.
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Apr 9, 2017 18:10
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lovely stats beget shittier stats. I should have known better.
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Apr 9, 2017 18:12
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dokmo posted:Any team win% when a player has a triple double: .773 Well um yeah why would a player hitting a stat benchmark do better than other players hitting the same benchmark.
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Apr 9, 2017 18:20
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ragle posted:42% FG on the 10th best team in the league should never win MVP But enough about Allen Iverson
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Apr 9, 2017 18:23
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dokmo posted:lovely stats beget shittier stats. I should have known better. Well then you better get ready for this awful poo poo: pre:B+/- I1 PER I2 VORP I3 WS I4 Total Russell Westbrook • OKC 15.4 1.000 30.5 1.000 12 1.000 12.7 0.864 0.966 James Harden • HOU 10.1 0.656 27.3 0.895 8.7 0.725 14.7 1.000 0.819 LeBron James • CLE 8.3 0.539 27 0.885 7.1 0.592 12.6 0.857 0.718 Kawhi Leonard • SAS 8 0.519 27.7 0.908 6.1 0.508 13.5 0.918 0.714 G. Antetokounmpo • MIL 7.7 0.500 26.3 0.862 6.9 0.575 12.4 0.844 0.695 Jimmy Butler • CHI 6.7 0.435 25.1 0.823 6.1 0.508 13.2 0.898 0.666 Stephen Curry • GSW 7.3 0.474 24.6 0.807 6.1 0.508 12.3 0.837 0.656 Kevin Durant • GSW 7.9 0.513 27.5 0.902 5 0.417 11.5 0.782 0.653 Rudy Gobert • UTA 6.1 0.396 23.4 0.767 5.5 0.458 14.1 0.959 0.645 Chris Paul • LAC 8.6 0.558 26 0.852 5 0.417 10 0.680 0.627 Isaiah Thomas • BOS 5.4 0.351 26.6 0.872 4.7 0.392 12.3 0.837 0.613 K.A. Towns • MIN 4.8 0.312 25.6 0.839 5 0.417 11.9 0.810 0.594 Mike Conley • MEM 5.7 0.370 23.1 0.757 4.4 0.367 9.7 0.660 0.539 Damian Lillard • POR 4.2 0.273 24 0.787 4.2 0.350 10.3 0.701 0.528
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Apr 9, 2017 18:23
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CharlestheHammer posted:Well um yeah why would a player hitting a stat benchmark do better than other players hitting the same benchmark. It's not a benchmark because it's statistic that is uncorrelated to anything of value is the point. Libertine posted:Well then you better get ready for this awful poo poo: Yeah these are all versions of the same statistic, win shares. Which doesn't discount them as an argument for Westbrook but it is close to meaningless to list them together.
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Apr 9, 2017 18:27
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Westbrook dunks better
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Apr 9, 2017 18:28
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dokmo posted:Yeah these are all versions of the same statistic, win shares. Which doesn't discount them as an argument for Westbrook but it is close to meaningless to list them together. Exactly, the numbers don't lie. /s
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Apr 9, 2017 18:29
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https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/851098897107877890
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Apr 9, 2017 18:51
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Papercut posted:But enough about Allen Iverson Make it happen
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Apr 9, 2017 19:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tquHpax5u9o edit: jesus I cannot edit for poo poo
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Apr 9, 2017 19:07
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delay mvp voting a couple weeks and give it to whoever wins the hou/okc playoff series but anyway i think harden should get it but i'm obviously biased and i won't really be salty if westbrook does. They're both real good and cool and doing insane poo poo this year.
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Apr 9, 2017 19:08
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https://twitter.com/cavs/status/851129935444008960 Time to sign Dahntay Jones again, need someone to grab some nuts just in case
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Apr 9, 2017 19:09
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Eltoasto posted:Westbrook dunks better
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Apr 9, 2017 19:18
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BWV posted:I like the NHL model people were discussing. It would be cool to also have an award voted on by the players that determines who is the best and isn't completely tied to team success/narrative The NHL version doesn't really help at all. What happens is voting is open earlier and so they just vote for the guy with the best stats but a little earlier (with 10 games left) instead of the guy with the best stats at the end. Most of the time it's the same guy. I think it would be even more similar in the NBA, there are only a few years where there was any real debate over the MVP and I still feel like they'd do poo poo like vote Rose in 2011 or Iverson in 2001.
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Apr 9, 2017 19:21
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Eltoasto posted:Westbrook dunks better Yeah I personally weigh this poo poo pretty high. Basketball is entertainment as much as sports and Russ is extremely entertaining.
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Apr 9, 2017 20:26
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The MVP is MWP because it has a nice lyrical sound to it.
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Apr 9, 2017 21:27
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Eltoasto posted:Westbrook dunks better
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Apr 9, 2017 21:29
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also as far as we know russ hasn't turned quisling on breakfast yet
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Apr 9, 2017 21:31
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Also ET has opinions on mayo:quote:"I don't mess with mayonnaise," Turner said. "I don't trust white condiments. I don't even like looking at them."
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Apr 9, 2017 22:41
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attackmole posted:Wasn't the award voted on by players in the 50's - 70's and they were even worse at it than the media? No, it's the other way around. The media falls in love with silly narratives more than the players ever did. From 1956 to 1980 the players voted on the award. From 1981 to present it's been media etc. The correlation between MVP Pts and WS was .48 when players voted. And it's .38 since the media took over. I did a detailed analysis of voting patterns and found that both the players and media are biased against young elite players and also demonstrated that they prefer to vote for Celtics, Lakers and Knicks. Big city/media bias. 1964 and 1966 are great MVP voting years. 1978 and 2005 not so much. Crazy Ted posted:While we're on the subject of Minnesota: would it surprise you that they have #1 and #2 on the Minutes Played charts this year? And they're both ahead by about 100? That's the Tom Thibodeau way. Cool Buff Man posted:Next level tanking is replacing your whole roster with retired local sport legends A frightening prospect. Dejan Bimble posted:Why does the MVP always come down to semantic argument between "best production by a player, best production by a player on a good team, best player overall" It is extremely illogical that an OPOY award does not exist.
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Apr 9, 2017 22:44
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leftist heap posted:Also ET has opinions on mayo: a man after my own heart
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Apr 9, 2017 22:56
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I wouldn't mind having some kind of 'Best Player In The League' award and 'Best Individual Season' split. Of course often one player would win both, but this season would be one case where it would placate a lot of people. Lebron 'Best Player', probably Kawhi runner up - Harden/Westbrook 'Best Season'. If it had been that way since the beginning you'd have Kareem, Jordan and Lebron with like 8 'Best Player' MVPs each which I am extremely okay with. tanglewood1420 fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 23:13
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Spring Break My Heart posted:Didn't the NBPA start their own award 2 years ago? Harden won it over Curry, and then Curry won it last year. edit: I thought they didn't have the NBAPA awards last season because the first year was a huge disaster. Players not showing up, not giving out all the listed awards, etc. I looked it up and they did in fact give out awards, no idea if it was broadcast though. Anybody know? Spacebump fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 23:25
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narratives rule and make it more fun for me, the fan
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Apr 9, 2017 23:32
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