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STAC Goat posted:So I just hate Ward (I mean, I loved to hate Ward, but I hate him) and will never accept any kind of "good guy" Ward. I'll be the rear end in a top hat constantly fighting against the thread tide because drat that crazy, psycho, evil fucker just because NOW his crazy, psycho obsession is Daisy/Skye. This show is reeeeally good at skipping tropes. There are a half dozen people on the team that would outright reject/destroy LMD Ward on the spot, especially because even if he is "good" the AI injected into the LMD is literally a duplicate image of an evil person created by an evil AI tainted by evil magic. There's just no good reason to have that lying around. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 22:00
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PierreTheMime posted:This show is reeeeally good at skipping tropes. There are a half dozen people on the team that would outright reject/destroy LMD Ward on the spot, especially because even if he is "good" the AI injected into the LMD is literally a duplicate image of an evil person created by an evil AI tainted by evil magic. There's just no good reason to have that lying around. So, you follow the Mack school of dealing with sentient robots?
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Apr 9, 2017 22:07
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Yeah, I feel comforted that Jemma just saw "same old backstabbing Ward" and not "oh, he's a good guy here." And there's no way I'll accept that Daisy would EVER feel comfortable working alongside ANY Ward and if they try and make her chill on this one I'll probably throw some kind of fit in here. Caulson too, probably. Hell, May too. And loving Fitz, of course. Even if the LMD Ward was some 100% good and benign fantasy version he's still based off the guy who hosed all them over in unforgivable ways and wearing his face. Hell, its creepier if he's based off of the fake person Ward pretended to be to gain all their trust before loving them over in a million ways. I will accept LMD Ward making it out of the Framework only for Mack to gun-axe his head off only for everyone else to be annoyed that he got to kill him when they all had so much more motivation.
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Apr 9, 2017 22:08
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STAC Goat posted:I will accept LMD Ward making it out of the Framework only for Mack to gun-axe his head off only for everyone else to be annoyed that he got to kill him when they all had so much more motivation. The finale involving a race between the SHIELD team to murk lmd Ward would be pretty good. I like the idea that lmd mace wins.
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Apr 9, 2017 22:16
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I have to say I secretly want Mack to die from all this but come back as the one true good LMD to have his insurance policy pay-out fund SHIELD for decades.
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Apr 9, 2017 22:19
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If somebody were to die, I'd guess it would be Mace, either to stay in the Framework or to come back as a LMD. He is the most uncomfortable with what and where he is now.
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Apr 9, 2017 22:24
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In hindsight, you're right that Mace is the right guy to kill LMD Ward because he's the only person with no actual experience with villain Ward so it would be the funniest possibility. In the end the more I think of it the more I just take comfort in Jemma being so stubborn and resolute in her "they've always been Nazis, every last one of them" approach to this bs moral grey area. She shall lead the charge against the false redemption stories. Her and Mack's fear of the Terminator movies.
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Apr 9, 2017 22:40
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homullus posted:If somebody were to die, I'd guess it would be Mace, either to stay in the Framework or to come back as a LMD. He is the most uncomfortable with what and where he is now. Mace is probably the only one (real person) who knows frameward as a good guy. He'd be the guy on the team saying, "hey, this dude's not so bad." and everyone else would be in to murder the bot.
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Apr 9, 2017 23:12
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kayakyakr posted:Mace is probably the only one (real person) who knows frameward as a good guy. He'd be the guy on the team saying, "hey, this dude's not so bad." and everyone else would be in to murder the bot. Nah. LMD Ward manages to win everyone over. Even Daisy. Even Mack. Then Mace shows up and chops Ward's head off without a word. Then, while everyone is staring at him in horror: "What? He's a bad guy! I've read the file!"
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Apr 9, 2017 23:27
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STAC Goat posted:But I don't really get why anyone would want "Good Guy Ward" as a LMD since that's the guy who sucked and the one everyone likes is "Crazy Villain Ward." If a LMD Ward escaped and then went evil (because that is his true nature) over rejection by Daisy or something that I'd accept even if I'd still curse his name. But a "good" Ward in SHIELD? Icky and boring. I liked Good Guy Ward. He never bored me at all.
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Apr 9, 2017 23:36
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homullus posted:If somebody were to die, I'd guess it would be Mace, either to stay in the Framework or to come back as a LMD. He is the most uncomfortable with what and where he is now. Plus, an LMD is pretty close to the powerset he's widely believed to have, so it would actually make his life less complicated. He's already got a secret, now he'll have the powers, a secret, and be an awesome robot. Plus, he could be like a good-guy Dr Doom. It's always a Mace-bot
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Apr 10, 2017 01:52
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I think LMD Mace would be a boring way to go, to be honest, but I do love the idea of LMD Mack. It would be a great payoff for his over the top fear of robots.STAC Goat posted:Yeah, I feel comforted that Jemma just saw "same old backstabbing Ward" and not "oh, he's a good guy here." And there's no way I'll accept that Daisy would EVER feel comfortable working alongside ANY Ward and if they try and make her chill on this one I'll probably throw some kind of fit in here. Caulson too, probably. Hell, May too. And loving Fitz, of course. Even if the LMD Ward was some 100% good and benign fantasy version he's still based off the guy who hosed all them over in unforgivable ways and wearing his face. This got me to thinking that I could get behind 'Good' LMD Ward if he wasn't accepted by anyone, was constantly being hunted down, but tried to be a hero anyway. That's how a lot of superhero stories go (think Spider-Man or X-Men) and it could totally work.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:03
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Yakmouth posted:This got me to thinking that I could get behind 'Good' LMD Ward if he wasn't accepted by anyone, was constantly being hunted down, but tried to be a hero anyway. That's how a lot of superhero stories go (think Spider-Man or X-Men) and it could totally work. The Incredible Hulk is probably the most iconic one. It would be a cool random scene to show Ward playing this in his room: http://youtu.be/EU8QVifSPmU
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Apr 10, 2017 02:57
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How the hell did I not think of Hulk??
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Apr 10, 2017 03:14
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nelson posted:The Incredible Hulk is probably the most iconic one. It would be a cool random scene to show Ward playing this in his room: The after credit scene for the S4 finale would be LMD Ward hitchhiking down a country road. A car looks like it's going to pass by and ignore before swerving at the last minute hitting him, inside the car Coulson adjusts the review mirror before throwing it in reverse and backing over Ward. The sad hitchhiking song from The Incredible Hulk is playing through all of this.
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Apr 10, 2017 05:05
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STAC Goat posted:In the end the more I think of it the more I just take comfort in Jemma being so stubborn and resolute in her "they've always been Nazis, every last one of them" approach to this bs moral grey area. I am comforted that the episode answered any "well Hydra IS protecting against what the world sees as an actual threat here" doubts with "and here's Fitz Mengele".
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Apr 10, 2017 07:27
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I don't know, I'm not really seeing Ward here as "good Ward" so much as "face Ward". Like, he isn't someone who's going to regret anything he's done, and he's certainly capable of and responsible for a dollar store receipt's worth of atrocities. But he's not exactly ideologically evil, either; he's so invested in his own sense of fulfillment that he'll work the side most convenient without ever actually changing from being this inherently reprehensible Kain Highwind archetype. That is to say, regardless of what they do with him, I'll probably be alright with it. If he becomes an LMD or it comes up in the framework, then if there's a schism over whether to trust him, he'll just bounce, because it won't be convenient for him to work the good guy angle. It's less a question of whether Ward can be redeemed and more a question of whether SHIELD would be willing to employ him as a glorified gun.
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Apr 10, 2017 09:46
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Good Lord Fisher! posted:Simmons has owned for a very long time now. irlZaphod posted:So is Simmons going to be digging herself out of her grave, Buffy-style?  This is totally cool. I loved that episode, I think I missed loads of stuff in it though (didn't see the Hydra statue in the lobby, I don't think?) It's incredible how this show has turned around from Season 1, but at the same time it really is just building on plots from then. I think it's been a pretty fantastic bit of television. I really hope we get a Season 5. irlZaphod fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 11:41
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irlZaphod posted:didn't see the Hydra statue in the lobby, I don't think? How could you have missed it? It was gorgeous. Like gently caress Hydra for being a bunch of nazis, but I legit want that statue.  Edit: while google image searching that I found that apparently SHIELD had a similar lobby statue 
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Apr 10, 2017 11:58
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If you had told me halfway through S1 that nerdy scientist lady would turn out to be the most awesome and comparatively badass agent of the lot, I would have laughed in your face. LAUGHED. Yet here we are. Gemma Simmons is ace. Surviving on alien planets, going undercover in Hydra, stabbing the poo poo out of robot boyfriends, digging herself out of the grave to shittalk VR Nazis, the works. I'll take her over any of the Netflix bunch.
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Apr 10, 2017 14:46
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Both the stereotypically nerdy scientist characters turned out to be consistently badass.
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Apr 10, 2017 14:49
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Yeah, didn't Fitz stab someone in the hand with a pencil earlier this season?
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Apr 10, 2017 14:54
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notthegoatseguy posted:Yeah, didn't Fitz stab someone in the hand with a pencil earlier this season? That's, like, one of the least badass things he's done since the first season.
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Apr 10, 2017 14:56
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Fitz best moment is his invisible gun.
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Apr 10, 2017 15:22
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hangedman1984 posted:How could you have missed it? It was gorgeous. Like gently caress Hydra for being a bunch of nazis, but I legit want that statue. Hey, Branding is important! I doubt anyone from the Framework will make it out. Good Guy Ward would probably sacrifice himself to help Jemma and Daisy escape. "I'm not real so i'm not really dying to you, but I can't let you die" or something else. like that.
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Apr 10, 2017 17:11
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:The after credit scene for the S4 finale would be LMD Ward hitchhiking down a country road. A car looks like it's going to pass by and ignore before swerving at the last minute hitting him, inside the car Coulson adjusts the review mirror before throwing it in reverse and backing over Ward. The sad hitchhiking song from The Incredible Hulk is playing through all of this. (Except it can't be Coulson's Corvette or an obvious SHIELD SUV because that would give it away.)
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Apr 10, 2017 19:34
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twistedmentat posted:Hey, Branding is important! Yeah, I'm not really counting on any LMD's getting out because someone would have to build them a LMD. As best as I can remember all the LMD's are dead now. I mean, Aida could build a Ward LMD but why?
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Apr 10, 2017 20:04
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, I'm not really counting on any LMD's getting out because someone would have to build them a LMD. As best as I can remember all the LMD's are dead now. I mean, Aida could build a Ward LMD but why? We don't know what's going on outside the Framework, Aida could be building an army. We also don't know that the remaining LMDs at the Shield base were destroyed, LmdFitz might be programming the army of Daisy's right now.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:05
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Yeah, but why would Aida be building a dead ex-SHIELD agent who the entire intelligence world recognizes as a psycho killer, double agent, and Inhuman death cult god? I mean, I'm sure they could come up with a reason if they really wanted to but I'll be damned if I can think of it.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:08
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, but why would Aida be building a dead ex-SHIELD agent who the entire intelligence world recognizes as a psycho killer, double agent, and Inhuman death cult god? She built the Superior his own LMD body, she might decide that Ward could be useful in the real world.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:09
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Rhyno posted:We don't know what's going on outside the Framework, Aida could be building an army. We also don't know that the remaining LMDs at the Shield base were destroyed, LmdFitz might be programming the army of Daisy's right now. I hope they weren't, there was still a ton of human shield agents passed out on the ground in the base.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:49
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They're redshirts. They knew the risk.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:00
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waiiiiiit a second so Jemma was thrown in a mass grave and then they stuck a Jemma Simmons headstone on it? SOMETHING DOESN'T ADD UP HERE
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Apr 10, 2017 21:25
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I don't think there was a headstone where she dug out so either she was thrown in a mass grave and her family just buried an empty coffin or they only thought of the logistics of Jemma getting herself out of a sealed coffin 6 feet deep between episodes. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and go with the first one.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:27
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Tree Dude posted:waiiiiiit a second so Jemma was thrown in a mass grave and then they stuck a Jemma Simmons headstone on it? SOMETHING DOESN'T ADD UP HERE Hydra mass killed everyone at Shield and just buried them in a big grave. Then they probably had some cover story about how suddenly all these shield agents are dead... Oopsie. Headstone is probably something her family did. But isn't where she is actually rested. Efb
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Apr 10, 2017 21:27
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makes sense! 
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Apr 10, 2017 21:29
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Hydra spares no expense on their cover stories.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:41
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Well, they apparently have fascist control so apparently all they had to do was throw bodies into a mass grave, fence off the area, punish anyone who steps foot near it, and make up a story in the one state run newspaper everyone gets all their news from. Maybe Jemma's parents are in the UK getting real press and waiting for the secret to come out about what the fascist government did to their daughter.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:43
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A shallow mass grave and animals didn't get them. You'd think being nazis they'd know a thing or two about getting rid of bodies
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Apr 10, 2017 22:05
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Clearly Hydra murdered all the woodland creatures of extra evil points. To be honest, I'm a little confused as to why Jemma's body wasn't decomposed like her grave-mate. I'm not clear why Aida gave her an intact body at all instead of just writing her as vaporized. But comic book, so I'll move past it.
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Apr 10, 2017 22:08
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