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Metalshark posted:THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN & SILK: THE SPIDER(FLY) EFFECT miniseries/Infinite comic, depending on your preference. Thanks, I've liked some of the Silk appearances I've read, I'll check this out.
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Apr 10, 2017 18:12
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chitoryu12 posted:I bought the omnibus of the first Superman comics (a good 300 or 400+ pages' worth) on Comixology and it's a loving trip. Along with lacking many of his famous powers (he's only able to leap 10 stories, run faster than a locomotive, and hold up a bridge to keep a train from falling into a canyon), he deals with some of the most boring and normal crimes he can find. One of the very first (THE first after the introduction strip) Superman newspaper comic strips, written and drawn by the original two, has him LITERALLY saying "Nice bank you have here, it'd be a shame if something were to...happen to it." to the bank's owner as he held a giant safe over his head because the bank refused to give a loan to a struggling farmer. Superman, as originally intended, was simply a guy to fight bullies. He wasn't meant to punch super powered giants with hemophilia (their veins "thirsting for blood" ) as he did later, he was just there to stand up to the little guy because he wasn't afraid of the mob's guns, or your boss's threats. So that's what he did for the longest time: cling to the top of telephone poles like a koala looking for jerks of ANY type so he could jump down like super big brother and use his powers to do what's right. It's a real shame we don't have any heroes like that nowadays, the guy who will bend the rules to do what's right, it's easy to look back with hindsight and say "No, Superman would TOTALLY help the colonies in 1776" but no, Superman of today would have blindly enforced the status quo. The original Superman would have punched King George. It's the Spiderman 3 problem: he stops an armored car from being robbed but how are we supposed to root for that when we know it is being robbed so the "bad guy" can pay for a life saving operation for his daughter (who, by the way, is immediately forgotten, she may be dead but at least Spiderman prevented that bank from having to fill out extra paperwork and some insurance company somewhere from having to reimburse the armored car company and/or bank. Heavens to Betsy a multi millionaire bank exec may have had to cancel his tee time!!) There's a parallel Earth episode of the Justice League where Superman kills President Luthor and then declares martial law over all the Earth with the help of the Justice League, this is shown as going "too far" when Green Lantern and Wonder Woman violently break up a protest against the JL but how is that any different than normal? They are enforcers of the status quo whether they are in charge of the status quo or not. They are basically tools of the establishment without the paycheck. Sometimes the status is not quo but how can that ever change with these super fools taking it upon themselves to "maintain order"? Yeah you must follow the law, but the law must be just. Would Superman of today be flying along the border on orders from president Trump heaving Mexicans with cantaloupe sized calf muscles back? I believe he would. The Superman of yesterday would punch Trump. Yesterday Superman was Truth and Justice, Today Superman is "Hey now, let's not make waves". How can society evolve with such a tight block on it? Which brings me to my point: we must kill Superman now before it's too late. 
Duke Igthorn fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 18:14
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Duke Igthorn posted:One of the very first Superman newspaper comic strips, written and drawn by the original two, has him LITERALLY saying "Nice bank you have here, it'd be a shame if something were to...happen to it." to the bank's owner as he held a giant safe over his head because the bank refused to give a loan to a struggling farmer. Superman, as originally intended, was simply a guy to fight bullies. He wasn't meant to punch super powered giants with hemophilia (their veins "thirsting for blood" ) as he did later, he was just there to stand up to the little guy because he wasn't afraid of the mob's guns, or your boss's threats. So that's what he did for the longest time: cling to the top of telephone poles like a koala looking for jerks of ANY type so he could jump down like super big brother and use his powers to do what's right. Sir, this is a McDonald's drive thru
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Apr 10, 2017 18:19
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And in all seriousness if you believe that stuff you said about modern day Superman you should maybe read a Superman comic other than that one where he walks across America being a dick to everyone
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Apr 10, 2017 18:22
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Duke Igthorn posted:Would Superman of today be flying along the border on orders from president Trump heaving Mexicans with cantaloupe sized calf muscles back? I believe he would. You'd be pretty dumb to think this considering modern-day Superman literally had a story where he went and supported Arab Spring and renounced his American citizenship among other things. Superman doesn't become a totalitarian dictator who overthrows governments but outside of like The Dark Knight Returns he's very rarely going "Welp it's the law you're an illegal alien so gently caress you" and in TDKR it was an explicit plot point he was a government stooge. He absolutely is more status quo than anarchist symbol but that was true even at the start.
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Apr 10, 2017 18:29
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Yeah, old school Superman threatened a bank to help a guy get a loan, he didn't dismantle the very concept of banking and a capital-based economy.
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Apr 10, 2017 18:46
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ImpAtom posted:Superman doesn't become a totalitarian dictator who overthrows governments but outside of like The Dark Knight Returns he's very rarely going "Welp it's the law you're an illegal alien so gently caress you" and in TDKR it was an explicit plot point he was a government stooge. He absolutely is more status quo than anarchist symbol but that was true even at the start. Didn't Lex and/or Brainiac have hostages they were using to force Superman to do what they wanted?
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Apr 10, 2017 18:55
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ImpAtom posted:You'd be pretty dumb to think this considering modern-day Superman literally had a story where he went and supported Arab Spring and renounced his American citizenship among other things. And modern day Superman had a story where he landed in the Soviet Union and used his super powers to spy on ordinary citizens and helped the SU become a super power. He also intervened in WWII and once destroyed an entire country because of a single terrorist attack on Metropolis. What gives him that right?
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Apr 10, 2017 19:09
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Duke Igthorn posted:And modern day Superman had a story where he landed in the Soviet Union and used his super powers to spy on ordinary citizens and helped the SU become a super power. Man, it's almost like the point of that storyline was that Superman isn't inherently good, but rather was taught to use his gifts in a moral fashion by his upbringing. Who'da thunk?
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Apr 10, 2017 19:14
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Someone literally using an Elseworlds story to debate the personality of a character as portrayed in modern day comics is a new one
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Apr 10, 2017 19:26
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Phylodox posted:Yeah, old school Superman threatened a bank to help a guy get a loan, he didn't dismantle the very concept of banking and a capital-based economy. Well there's a missed opportunity.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:30
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To be fair if you had a literally invulnerable super alien threatening to crush bankers because they were kind of poo poo, you might see some rapid reform in the banking industry based on the fear they would be straight-up murdered.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:40
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Ashcans posted:To be fair if you had a literally invulnerable super alien threatening to crush bankers because they were kind of poo poo, you might see some rapid reform in the banking industry based on the fear they would be straight-up murdered. I think it's more likely you'd simply create a generation of cleverer, more devious bankers.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:43
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Ashcans posted:To be fair if you had a literally invulnerable super alien threatening to crush bankers because they were kind of poo poo, you might see some rapid reform in the banking industry based on the fear they would be straight-up murdered. As I understand it this is sort of how FDR got the New Deal passed because the bankers preferred to give a little back rather than being eaten by starving migrant workers
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Apr 10, 2017 20:07
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purple death ray posted:Someone literally using an Elseworlds story to debate the personality of a character as portrayed in modern day comics is a new one Keeshhound posted:Man, it's almost like the point of that storyline was that Superman isn't inherently good, but rather was taught to use his gifts in a moral fashion by his upbringing. Who'da thunk? ImpAtom posted:He absolutely is more status quo than anarchist symbol but that was true even at the start.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:33
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Red Son also ends with "Maybe Monarchy is cool and good" so he technically isn't the status quo there either.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:35
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What are you even arguing at this point? Until you can point to an actual, existing issue of a comic book wherein Superman lauds Donald Trump or expresses solidarity with his anti-immigrant and anti-refugee ideals, you're just peddling some kind of weird strawman.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:36
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Duke Igthorn posted:Oh I'm sorry, is "The Incident" that he's citing in continuity? Oh it's officially not? Are there any other rules that apply to me and me alone? What are you even arguing? Are you a crazy person?
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Apr 10, 2017 20:40
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I'm a crazy person and I'm not sure what we're talking about either.
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Apr 10, 2017 20:56
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I think that dude's just broken by Trump getting elected.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:01
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I mean yeah I would love if superheroes were a little less pro-establishment, and if Superman had less bullshit excuses to not right wrongs on the societal level instead of just stopping bank robbers, but sheesh, there's a limit.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:02
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Superman can't stop societal ills for the same reason Joker can't stay in prison (and Batman can't kill him). Arguing for it otherwise is just arguing against ongoing, serialized comics. Which is a perfectly fine thing to argue against, but pretending like DC or Marvel will ever move away from that is really quixotic.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:09
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ImpAtom posted:What are you even arguing? Are you a crazy person? Endless Mike posted:Superman can't stop societal ills for the same reason Joker can't stay in prison (and Batman can't kill him). Arguing for it otherwise is just arguing against ongoing, serialized comics. Which is a perfectly fine thing to argue against, but pretending like DC or Marvel will ever move away from that is really quixotic. Lurdiak posted:I mean yeah I would love if superheroes were a little less pro-establishment, and if Superman had less bullshit excuses to not right wrongs on the societal level instead of just stopping bank robbers, but sheesh, there's a limit.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:35
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 [Fantastic Four #133]
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Apr 10, 2017 21:43
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Duke Igthorn posted:I never get enough of the people who squeal "I don't understand!!!" like their ignorance is someone else's problem. "I'm stupid and can't understand this concept therefore I win!!" No, it is because your arguments are genuinely nonsensical and make no sense. You're all over the place and changing what you're arguing mid-sentence and using examples that make no sense, at once getting angry over a hypotehetical thing that didn't happen and then freaking out because an elseworld story at some point portrayed Superman in a negative fashion. You're not actually forming any coherent argument for what is a very easy point to make. You're going "I bet Superman would be throwing illegal aliens over the border in comics these days!!!" and when it's pointed out to you that, no, that isn't actually how Superman is portrayed you have some weird flipout about Red Son and I guess you're referencing a story from the 90s where Superman attacked Qurac and it had long-reaching consequences and was framed as "wow, it's hosed up Superman did that" and not "Boy, it's great Superman did that!" ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 21:43
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ImpAtom posted:No, it is because your arguments are genuinely nonsensical and make no sense. You're all over the place and changing what you're arguing mid-sentence and using examples that make no sense, at once getting angry over a hypotehetical thing that didn't happen and then freaking out because an elseworld story at some point portrayed Superman in a negative fashion. You're not actually forming any coherent argument for what is a very easy point to make.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:45
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Duke Igthorn posted:And since you seem to be the only one with this problem it's everyone else on Earth that's dumb and crazy, not you. That statement would make a lot more sense if I was the only person in the thread asking what you're on about. What precisely is your point? Because, again, you're changing your argument near constantly. If your argument is "Boy, Superman doesn't actually change society very much" then it's true. If your argument is "Superman never fights injustice ever and only fights for the absolute status quo!!" then there are plenty of books that actually show the opposite and it has nothing to do with the weird argument you made about Superman supporting Trump policies or whatever.
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Apr 10, 2017 21:48
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Apr 10, 2017 21:50
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Mental Organism Designed Only for Talking?
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Apr 10, 2017 21:58
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Duke Igthorn posted:And since you seem to be the only one with this problem it's everyone else on Earth that's dumb and crazy, not you. When they say a picture is worth a thousand words, they weren't establishing an exchange rate. It's the funny panel thread, dumbass. 
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Apr 10, 2017 22:04
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ImpAtom posted:That statement would make a lot more sense if I was the only person in the thread asking what you're on about. And shut the gently caress up about your "it was an imaginary story!!!" whining because guess what else was an imaginary story: ImpAtom posted:You'd be pretty dumb to think this considering modern-day Superman literally had a story where he went and supported Arab Spring and renounced his American citizenship among other things. I'm not sure what you're not getting That's Yesterday Superman, breaking the law to do the right thing. Today's Superman would not do that
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Apr 10, 2017 22:08
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Duke Igthorn posted:"There are tons of examples where you're wrong! so many! A ton! Billions! Hundreds of billions! So, so many! So many! I just wish I weren't too busy to provide them! Sooo busy! So many examples! Tons!!" How about you ask in a thread that isn't the funny panels thread, yes, instead of blatantly trying to get people probated for posting non-funny panels in the funny panel thread. Edit: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3611360 Here is the general Q&A thread. If you want to ask examples of Superman combating injustice and inequality in modern times there is a good place to start that won't be outside of the realm of this thread. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 22:09
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Holy poo poo please all of you go take naps and come back when juice boxes are served.
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Apr 10, 2017 22:09
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Avulsion posted:Mental Organism Designed Only for Talking? 
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Apr 10, 2017 22:12
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Duke Igthorn posted:
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Apr 10, 2017 22:59
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purple death ray posted:This is your entire argument and it's something you decided was true for no obvious reason Donald Trump got elected and Superman did nothing!!!
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Apr 10, 2017 23:00
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Phylodox posted:Donald Trump got elected and Superman did nothing!!! But enough about the middling 2000-2004 run of Superbooks.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:27
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The Sexual Shiite posted:When they say a picture is worth a thousand words, they weren't establishing an exchange rate. It's the funny panel thread, dumbass. Everyone there better be going "Oh man that's some heavy truth" rather than "Oooooh, too far man."
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Apr 10, 2017 23:43
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The Sexual Shiite posted:When they say a picture is worth a thousand words, they weren't establishing an exchange rate. It's the funny panel thread, dumbass. to be fair only one of them died and he got better. The rest are living nice superheroey lives.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:48
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SomeMathGuy posted:But enough about the middling 2000-2004 run of Superbooks. I mean, I'd be down for President Superman, but that has far more to do with his proven track record of morality than his Super-Powers.
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Apr 10, 2017 23:51
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