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mcmagic posted:This is a 3 CMC walker. You can't play it for 2. I'm so proud I baited mcmagic with my bad joke.
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Apr 11, 2017 18:49
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Meatbag Esq. posted:I'm so proud I baited mcmagic with my bad joke.
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Apr 11, 2017 18:55
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Meatbag Esq. posted:I'm so proud I baited mcmagic with my bad joke. That's one for the ol' CV Have Blue posted:Pretty sure Nissa is busted. She lets you deploy 2 threats at once if played late, acts as card selection/ramp early, and can come down as a hasty finisher. She basically has lovely cascade. Given the fact that she operates better with more loyalty counters, I see her in more of a control finisher. Playing her for 8 or 9 and immediately swinging for 10 is exactly what control wants in a finisher.
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Apr 11, 2017 18:58
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InterrupterJones posted:That's one for the ol' CV How did control deal the other 10 damage?
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Apr 11, 2017 18:59
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Anyway Nissa Seward is real good PW though casting her for X=1 is probably a bad idea unless the board is completely spotless and Wizards forgets to print haste creatures and spells that deal damage.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:01
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TheKingofSprings posted:How did control deal the other 10 damage? ...by casting their second Nissa the next turn? 
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Apr 11, 2017 19:03
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Meatbag Esq. posted:Man, you would think wizards would have learned their lesson with 2 cmc plainswalkers with jace. Actually I think the relevant lesson for this card is Tibalt
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Apr 11, 2017 19:12
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Anyway Nissa Seward is real good PW though casting her for X=1 is probably a bad idea unless the board is completely spotless and Wizards forgets to print haste creatures and spells that deal damage. I mean, sure, sometimes she'll eat poo poo and all you get is Scry 2, but her 0 is so ridiculous following the +2 that you're likely to rapidly win after 1 or 2 turns unless you built your deck wrong.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:14
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Sampatrick posted:Actually I think the relevant lesson for this card is Tibalt Man Tibalt is so bad. In the Planeswalker decks I made and balanced against each other with my friends, Tibalt is the only deck where you don't really care if you draw your PW and in fact usually would rather have something else.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:15
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never make jokes or some idiot will meme at you is the lesson im seeing here
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Apr 11, 2017 19:18
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you might be saying "but livingtrope, he posted the meme as a joke too", well, all i have to say to that is that that doesn't exclude him still being an idiot, at least other dude attempted originality
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Apr 11, 2017 19:19
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I'm not seeing a spot on the curve where Nissa is the card you're all about casting. She seems mediocre at best pretty much constantly. She doesn't do anything to protect herself the turn she comes down which is a huge problem. She can grind card advantage, which is good, but she can't guarantee it without doing so very intermittently. I think it's an interesting design, but she requires a very slow and specific format for her to be good. Or I could be wrong and she's insane and will be a format staple. I just think she has a ton of flaws.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:23
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Sampatrick posted:I'm not seeing a spot on the curve where Nissa is the card you're all about casting. She seems mediocre at best pretty much constantly. She doesn't do anything to protect herself the turn she comes down which is a huge problem. She can grind card advantage, which is good, but she can't guarantee it without doing so very intermittently. I think it's an interesting design, but she requires a very slow and specific format for her to be good. She's at absolute worst 50% to flip in my favorite deck in Modern and she plays the card immediately so that is pretty huge upside. She's ok at any stage of the game and scales up really well with mana, that means she pairs up very well with mana dorks and in any deck that ramps she's solid. Flexibility is incredibly powerful for a walker.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:27
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Scry 2 is incredibly powerful, because it lets you tuck a card you don't like and lets you know your next draw. Scry 1 only lets you do one of those at a time. And you can set up her 0 by putting a different card above the thing you want to slam down. She's entirely valid as just +2 until ultimate, or as setting up her 0 repeatedly. That sort of versatility is great in a card.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:35
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Also I really, really love that she can out of nowhere clock someone for 10 off the top, that really is the kind of thing that just steals games
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Apr 11, 2017 19:40
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There are 3 PW'ers in this set and they are all between very good and busted...
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Apr 11, 2017 19:42
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As of now the only G/U/x deck is Temur Tower, and she doesn't really belong in there. If Bant can force a comeback they will play a copy.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:42
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DangerDongs posted:As of now the only G/U/x deck is Temur Tower, and she doesn't really belong in there. If Bant can force a comeback they will play a copy. 4 Color Shaeeli could cast it easily.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:43
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Sampatrick posted:I'm not seeing a spot on the curve where Nissa is the card you're all about casting. She seems mediocre at best pretty much constantly. She doesn't do anything to protect herself the turn she comes down which is a huge problem. She can grind card advantage, which is good, but she can't guarantee it without doing so very intermittently. I think it's an interesting design, but she requires a very slow and specific format for her to be good. scalability is really powerful in this game. for example, Walking Ballista is a weak card at pretty much every value of X, but when you get all those garbage cards together in one card, it's a format staple.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:43
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One of the biggest problems with evaluating a card like Nissa is that there's a very heavy tendency to evaluate the card on generic terms that appear in a lot of SCG articles/CFB articles that may or may not apply to the card in particular. Like, saying "well she doesn't protect herself" isn't as valid if you cast something for 3 mana and it goes on to win the game for you because its both topdecking and deploying threats for free. People really, really love taking very firm opinions on these kind of things even though they shouldn't be applied in a vacuum to cards that have yet to see any play. It's the same way "dies to Doom Blade" is basically dead horse trope of MTG fora despite the fact that it can be more or less valid depending on the card (e.g. its a less valid criticism of a card like Tarmogoyf than it is of, say, Shivan Dragon)
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Apr 11, 2017 19:44
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Sucks that the card that reveals the top of your library, which is info she really wants, is garbo.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:45
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Angry Grimace posted:One of the biggest problems with evaluating a card like Nissa is that there's a very heavy tendency to evaluate the card on generic terms that appear in a lot of SCG articles/CFB articles that may or may not apply to the card in particular. Like, saying "well she doesn't protect herself" isn't as valid if you cast something for 3 mana and it goes on to win the game for you because its both topdecking and deploying threats for free. People really, really love taking very firm opinions on these kind of things even though they shouldn't be applied in a vacuum to cards that have yet to see any play. It's the same way "dies to Doom Blade" is basically dead horse trope of MTG fora despite the fact that it can be more or less valid depending on the card (e.g. its a less valid criticism of a card like Tarmogoyf than it is of, say, Shivan Dragon) "Dies to Doom Blade" is a pretty drat good heuristic.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:48
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Angry Grimace posted:One of the biggest problems with evaluating a card like Nissa is that there's a very heavy tendency to evaluate the card on generic terms that appear in a lot of SCG articles/CFB articles that may or may not apply to the card in particular. Like, saying "well she doesn't protect herself" isn't as valid if you cast something for 3 mana and it goes on to win the game for you because its both topdecking and deploying threats for free. People really, really love taking very firm opinions on these kind of things even though they shouldn't be applied in a vacuum to cards that have yet to see any play. It's the same way "dies to Doom Blade" is basically dead horse trope of MTG fora despite the fact that it can be more or less valid depending on the card (e.g. its a less valid criticism of a card like Tarmogoyf than it is of, say, Shivan Dragon) I love spoiler season card judgments. The less we know about the new set, the better. Nothing is a better reminder that not only are 99.9% of Magic players are garbage at evaluating cards for constructed, they're willing to do so firmly before they even know what the format will look like. e: Part of it is definitely that no one's really keeping score, so there's no consequence to being terribly wrong in your judgments. But the whole thing always reminds me of the time I cracked open that brand new issue of InQuest for the Ice Age preview and read their article ranking Necropotence as the Worst Card in the Set. TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 19:49
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Marketing New Brain posted:Sucks that the card that reveals the top of your library, which is info she really wants, is garbo. I will make a deck that play that card, nissa, and the blue god, and play everything from the top of the deck while keeping 7 cards in hand all the time.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:51
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TheChirurgeon posted:I love spoiler season card judgments. The less we know about the new set, the better. Nothing is a better reminder that not only are 99.9% of Magic players are garbage at evaluating cards for constructed, they're willing to do so firmly before they even know what the format will look like. When a card is hard to judge and does powerful things, it does seem really weird to declare it terrible before even trying to sleeve it up.
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Apr 11, 2017 19:52
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mcmagic posted:"Dies to Doom Blade" is a pretty drat good heuristic. its not as good in a format without doom blade instead it's dies to fatal push, or dies to um...whatever other removal standard uses
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Apr 11, 2017 19:53
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Sickening posted:When a card is hard to judge and does powerful things, it does seem really weird to declare it terrible before even trying to sleeve it up. The bar for a 3 mana walker to clear to be playable is pretty much Saheeli without Cat and Nissa is ALOT better than that...
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Apr 11, 2017 19:53
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mandatory lesbian posted:its not as good in a format without doom blade Murder Ruinous path Anguish unmaking Grasp of darkness Unlicensed disintegration Declaration on stone Shock Harnessed lightning Stasis Snare Hitting a sudden torrential gearhulk YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 19:56
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mcmagic posted:4 Color Shaeeli could cast it easily. I feel dumb for forgetting that deck, but do you really want two planeswalkers whose +1s are to scry; it seems redundant. If Nissa's +1 was her 0 I could see them being a wombo combo together. She is very borderline playable depending on what decks exist. Of all the planeswalkers so far I think the Lili is the best.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:01
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DangerDongs posted:I feel dumb for forgetting that deck, but do you really want two planeswalkers whose +1s are to scry; it seems redundant. If Nissa's +1 was her 0 I could see them being a wombo combo together. I think both Nissa and Gids will see play outside Standard and Liliana will not and therefore They Are Better
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Apr 11, 2017 20:03
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DangerDongs posted:I feel dumb for forgetting that deck, but do you really want two planeswalkers whose +1s are to scry; it seems redundant. If Nissa's +1 was her 0 I could see them being a wombo combo together. If nissa +0 was a +1 it would have been absolutely insane.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:03
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mandatory lesbian posted:you might be saying "but livingtrope, he posted the meme as a joke too", well, all i have to say to that is that that doesn't exclude him still being an idiot, at least other dude attempted originality Had to meme quickly, am mobile posting, will photoshop a magic card into it later.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:12
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TheKingofSprings posted:I think both Nissa and Gids will see play outside Standard and Liliana will not and therefore They Are Better What deck outside of Standard would play this Nissa? The Gideon might go into Ad Nasuem, and maybe as sideboard tech, because certain combos decks may not be able to deal with him, but what U/G eternal deck wants Nissa?
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Apr 11, 2017 20:16
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SO what's the chance of a cool and good sligh deck being semi-playable? Every red card 3cmc and under in this set looks rowdy.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:17
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Scry 2 is incredibly powerful, because it lets you tuck a card you don't like and lets you know your next draw. Scry 1 only lets you do one of those at a time. And you can set up her 0 by putting a different card above the thing you want to slam down. She's entirely valid as just +2 until ultimate, or as setting up her 0 repeatedly. That sort of versatility is great in a card. You really can't afford to have a card that does nothing except for scry 2. Would you really pay 1UG: Scry 2, Fog? Tales of Woe posted:scalability is really powerful in this game. for example, Walking Ballista is a weak card at pretty much every value of X, but when you get all those garbage cards together in one card, it's a format staple. Walking Ballista is strong because it's actually really good at every point on the curve. As a two drop, it can pick off creatures or turn off the Saheeli combo. As a four drop, it can pick off two creatures or pick off a bigger creature or turn off the Saheeli combo. Ballista is not a weak card at pretty much any point on the curve. Angry Grimace posted:One of the biggest problems with evaluating a card like Nissa is that there's a very heavy tendency to evaluate the card on generic terms that appear in a lot of SCG articles/CFB articles that may or may not apply to the card in particular. Like, saying "well she doesn't protect herself" isn't as valid if you cast something for 3 mana and it goes on to win the game for you because its both topdecking and deploying threats for free. People really, really love taking very firm opinions on these kind of things even though they shouldn't be applied in a vacuum to cards that have yet to see any play. It's the same way "dies to Doom Blade" is basically dead horse trope of MTG fora despite the fact that it can be more or less valid depending on the card (e.g. its a less valid criticism of a card like Tarmogoyf than it is of, say, Shivan Dragon) The current best deck in the format is a deck that is very, very good at pressuring Planeswalkers. Planeswalkers that can't protect themselves immediately are weak in this Standard because if they can't protect themselves then they can just die to a Heart of Kiran or any of a number of different threats that Mardu plays. mcmagic posted:The bar for a 3 mana walker to clear to be playable is pretty much Saheeli without Cat and Nissa is ALOT better than that... Saheeli isn't playable without Felidar Guardian in the format and Saheeli is roughly as good as Nissa. Saheeli plusing can actually do something in a game; pressuring Planeswalkers is one of the things that Saheeli is actually pretty good at. I think this card is a slightly worse Ashiok that's easier to kill on curve. It might find a home, but I think it has a lot of flaws that will stop it from being see play.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:18
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Sampatrick posted:You really can't afford to have a card that does nothing except for scry 2. Would you really pay 1UG: Scry 2, Fog? I would if it had a alternate condition where it took over the game.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:20
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Sickening posted:I would if it had a alternate condition where it took over the game. Most Planeswalkers have an alternate condition where it takes over the game. It's just hard to justify playing a Planeswalker that is only ever good if you have complete control over the board.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:23
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DangerDongs posted:What deck outside of Standard would play this Nissa? The Gideon might go into Ad Nasuem, and maybe as sideboard tech, because certain combos decks may not be able to deal with him, but what U/G eternal deck wants Nissa? Bant Company almost certainly wants Nissa as a 1-2 of
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Apr 11, 2017 20:24
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TheKingofSprings posted:Bant Company almost certainly wants Nissa as a 1-2 of Cutting what? I can't imagine how you can play this when it dies to bolt when you cast it for 1UG. I'm not a Bant Company expert so I might be wrong, though. It just seems real low impact compared to your other options.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:27
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Sampatrick posted:Saheeli isn't playable without Felidar Guardian in the format and Saheeli is roughly as good as Nissa. Saheeli plusing can actually do something in a game; pressuring Planeswalkers is one of the things that Saheeli is actually pretty good at. I think this card is much better than Shaeeli on it's own. If only due to it's better Ult and scale-ability.
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Apr 11, 2017 20:33
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