Star Citizen: Death of a Space Thread?

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The Titanic: Sep 15, 2016; Unsinkable

peter gabriel posted:

goddam derek

You should probably do a video right now! This is peak "Star Citizen is good" because Derek just took a crushing blow!

Imagine all the leaps in development now! 3.0 is probably dropping tomorrow guys!

Maybe even 4 or 5.0!

# ? Apr 12, 2017 02:48

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# ? May 14, 2024 15:27

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

https://twitter.com/SandiGardiner/status/851943332959756289

Working hard on the schedule for work.

How the gently caress does this studio function when the producers and executives are busy for months figuring out what needs to be scheduled for the next milestone. First Chris was in England working on 3.0, and now Erin is in America working on 3.0. The amount of money spent on plane flights alone for 3.0 scheduling is a joke.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 02:51

Warhawk109: Mar 13, 2017

Battlefront 2 trailer leaked:

https://vimeo.com/212842535

Looks like it's going to have a cool single player campaign. Sure to be out before SQ42.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 02:54

ManofManyAliases: Mar 21, 2016; ToastOfManySmarts

Can't post for 3 hours!

The Titanic posted:

I usually don't mind you posting stuff, but don't defend Ben. Him being fat isn't so much the issue as it is he's literally human filth.

If he reads this stuff, and it makes him feel bad. loving good. Maybe he can go photoshop more murder scenes and talk about other disgusting poo poo to make himself feel better.

Please don't go on the "defend Ben hill" to die because no matter how much you support Star Citizen or Chris Roberts, as a person you are and likely always will be infinitely better than Ben is. Some people don't deserve ridicule, but others really really do and they earned it.

No, I meant: don't you think karma has come back to bite him in the rear end?

# ? Apr 12, 2017 02:59

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

I.N.R.I posted:

Go away you sick sack of poo poo.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:00

Thoatse: Feb 29, 2016; Lol said the scorpion, lmao

Warhawk109 posted:

Battlefront 2 trailer leaked:

https://vimeo.com/212842535

Looks like it's going to have a cool single player campaign. Sure to be out before SQ42.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:03

Skip My Posts: Aug 15, 2005; by FactsAreUseless

spacetoaster posted:

Go away you sick sack of poo poo.

lol

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:04

Snow Cone Capone: Jul 31, 2003

spacetoaster posted:

Go away you sick sack of poo poo.

you're posting sucks

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:05

Exinos: Mar 1, 2009; OSHA approved squiq

Ben Lesnick, Developer.

Sandi Gardiner, Actress.

Chris Roberts, Competent.

Derek, Smart.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:09

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

XK posted:

Anyone who wants to get anything out of K-Mart, or Sears, needs to hurry up, because that company is done. Get your Dr. Smart can pronto.

No more K-Mart OR Sears in my town... THIS IS ALMOST AS UNFAIR AS THOSE drat GOONS PICKING ON THOSE POOR INNOCENT CITIZENS OF THE STARS!

(Seriously, a little pissed I can't get at least a can...)

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:10

ManofManyAliases: Mar 21, 2016; ToastOfManySmarts

Can't post for 3 hours!

Exinos posted:

Derek, Smart.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:21

DapperDon: Sep 7, 2016

ManofManyAliases posted:

So you're kicking him while he's down? That's not a good look for someone with fancy internet belts and a taste for fine booze.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:23

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Tokamak posted:

https://twitter.com/SandiGardiner/status/851943332959756289

Working hard on the schedule for work.

How the gently caress does this studio function when the producers and executives are busy for months figuring out what needs to be scheduled for the next milestone. First Chris was in England working on 3.0, and now Erin is in America working on 3.0. The amount of money spent on plane flights alone for 3.0 scheduling is a joke.

The best part of this spectacular entire dumpster fire...is how basic project management knowledge was ignored.

Main cause of project failures are basically scope creep. Add scope after project initiation and the cost to implement is roughly 10x compared if it was accounted for in the beginning.

But another big failure is the project sponsor themselves which in this case are the backers. They signed off on it.

Combined with Roberts as a project manager, this is one clown car that still gives us laughs.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:27

ManofManyAliases: Mar 21, 2016; ToastOfManySmarts

Can't post for 3 hours!

DapperDon posted:

So you're kicking him while he's down? That's not a good look for someone with fancy internet belts and a taste for fine booze.

Derek has since posted 3 articles on twitter about what doxxing is "not." He can handle himself. He is the WAHLORD after all . . .

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:27

MilesK: Nov 5, 2015

ManofManyAliases posted:

Derek has since posted 3 articles on twitter about what doxxing is "not." He can handle himself. He is the WAHLORD after all . . .

How long until they release the pre-alpha Planetside 2.0 demo?

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:45

Brazilianpeanutwar: Aug 27, 2015; Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?

So what's going on g-..........ohh. :yikes:

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:48

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

ManofManyAliases posted:

Derek has since posted 3 articles on twitter about what doxxing is "not." He can handle himself. He is the WAHLORD after all . . .

Ive only ever seen "Waahlord" used on /r/ds. MoMA is tarkaroshe confirmed

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:51

DapperDon: Sep 7, 2016

ManofManyAliases posted:

Derek has since posted 3 articles on twitter about what doxxing is "not." He can handle himself. He is the WAHLORD after all . . .

Not saying he can't. I just expected more from you I guess.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:56

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

The Titanic posted:

Agreed.

There's always people who just go too far.

If anything actually did happen to any of these Internet celebrities, the first people in a lineup will be them.

I don't even wish physical harm on The Roberts'. I'd just like to see their noses pushed into their own lies and their smug rich life personalities torn down. That's not too much to ask for hopefully!

Despite my earlier idiocy, I would definitely cackle madly to see the Crobber Cabal all standing in line at their local food pantry indeed.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 03:59

DapperDon: Sep 7, 2016

Samizdata posted:

Despite my earlier idiocy, I would definitely cackle madly to see the Crobber Cabal all standing in line at their local food pantry indeed.

I would like to see their undeserved riches taken away, but I wish hunger on nobody. Not even on my worst enemy. Bring them down, sure. But everyone deserves the right to eat.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 04:02

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Beet Wagon posted:

Ive only ever seen "Waahlord" used on /r/ds. MoMA is tarkaroshe confirmed

I think you meant toast is tarkaroshe confirmed

# ? Apr 12, 2017 04:28

Wise Learned Man: Apr 22, 2008; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Lipstick Apathy

So do we rename the subforum after MoMA now?

# ? Apr 12, 2017 04:36

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

I can tell I'm getting old. I read it as Washlord and think about a pile of laundry I need to do.

Hell getting old.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 04:44

ManofManyAliases: Mar 21, 2016; ToastOfManySmarts

Can't post for 3 hours!

Wise Learned Man posted:

So do we rename the subforum after MoMA now?

I already have one - Big MoMa's House. It was archived and will live on in infamy.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 04:44

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

DapperDon posted:

I would like to see their undeserved riches taken away, but I wish hunger on nobody. Not even on my worst enemy. Bring them down, sure. But everyone deserves the right to eat.

Uhhh what do you think food pantries are for? :colbert:

# ? Apr 12, 2017 04:59

Hobold: Jan 10, 2012; I love my Cutlass
I love big stompy mechs
I love my HOTAS
I love to salvage wrecks
I love Star Citizen, and all it's craziness
GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA, GOONDEYADA; College Slice

trucutru posted:

I bet Lowtax was having a quiet drinking afternoon, but by now Derek must be on the phone.

Have you tried one that is freshly done? They are completely different from the stuff you buy at stores.

I've had them more than a few times from good mexican/taco places in Ft.W, and never been a fan of them.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 05:13

boviscopophobic: Feb 5, 2016

# ? Apr 12, 2017 05:45

Blue On Blue: Nov 14, 2012

So whispy.

Why does it seem like every new screenshot from CIG I see, the graphics are taking a step back?

Maybe they've finally realized having 4k resolution for fore head wrinkles on every model is ludicrous

However now poor old Gary looks like he's straight out of 2001

# ? Apr 12, 2017 05:52

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

The Titanic posted:

Aaaand we're back into the pits again. Geeze.

Hey, now, it wasn't me this time.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 05:55

Samizdata: May 14, 2007

DapperDon posted:

I would like to see their undeserved riches taken away, but I wish hunger on nobody. Not even on my worst enemy. Bring them down, sure. But everyone deserves the right to eat.

I didn't say I wanted them to starve. I said I wanted to see them standing in line at the food pantry since all those lovely moneys were carefully and excruciatingly removed from them after the collapse of the CIG Debacle, and they go to the food bank as not to be hungry.

(Except for Ben. A couple of weeks of hunger would do him good.)

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:00

Tijuana Bibliophile: Dec 30, 2008; Scratchmo

the worst thing with doxxing is how it's got two exes like an idiot word

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:13

Theotus: Nov 8, 2014

I would just like to point out that MoMA is generally terrible aside from having a great pallate, but he hasn't managed to get himself banned twice. Also paradox games are currently on sale.

Edit: I am drunk and going to bed, someone please post a catte.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:34

grimcreaper: Jan 7, 2012

Derek better get unbannex or i swear something will happen. Something like an angry series if posts aimed at the one who did the ban. You are a terrible admin and should be ashamed.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:35

Theotus: Nov 8, 2014

grimcreaper posted:

Derek better get unbannex or i swear something will happen. Something like an angry series if posts aimed at the one who did the ban. You are a terrible admin and should be ashamed.

It was the right thing to do.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:36

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

Moma can be hit-or-miss sometimes but when he's dunking on derek he's usually funnier than not.

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:43

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

grimcreaper posted:

Derek better get unbannex or i swear something will happen. Something like an angry series if posts aimed at the one who did the ban. You are a terrible admin and should be ashamed.

Uh I did the ban

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:44

Solarin: Nov 15, 2007

a cyberpunk goose posted:

Unpacking why SC is doomed from a technical perspective is conveniently (for chris roberts) very tough because it's extremely hard to get people's attentions long enough to elaborate on why making games is hard and you can't just ideas-guy development teams into doing the impossible. let's try to break Star Citizen down by starting from the abstract:

game engines are, at their core, real time operating systems (RTOS)

you have disparate systems that need to be scheduled, informed of things like user input or network activity, share state + somehow send messages to each other (or, more dangerously, directly reference each other), be maintained to respect logical contracts etc. there's not a lot of shortcuts you can take between these systems without introducing serious consequences to your runtime stability or overall code maintainability, you need to design it Right� and early and not let it slip when other people start helping you maintain/grow the engine.

the above outlines the overall concepts an "engine developer" has to maintain and grapple with. this is explicitly distinct from a "game developer" which I'll outline next.

engine development is all very complicated and often way more brittle than you expect. How many "complete" racing games have you seen on the Source engine compared to FPS games? The answer is obvious and influenced strongly by the products the original engine developers were aiming for. Some engines, like Unity, have done a great job at not being married to any one framework of gameplay but that ultimately results in a larger conceptual gap that a "game developer" might need to fill if they aren't an experienced "engine" developer or aren't good at building their own operating frameworks for the kind of game they want to make. In something like Unity there's no built in concept of guns or inventory or reticles or chat systems or existing game-like behavior. unity bridges this gap a bit with an asset store but then you are banging differently shaped puzzle pieces made by strangers together that might not fit nicely

The following are questions you need to answer and grasp the implications of when making any game and picking an engine that will suit your development style: first person? racing? strategy? turn based? multiplayer? single player? local multiplayer? physics a part of the gameplay or just aesthetic? persistent centralized accounts (ie: an MMO or something like it)? ad hoc p2p player servers? the list goes on, but you need answers to every question you can think of that is a core component of your game.

The answers to these questions will influence what kinds of problems you're signing yourself up to solve. If I know I'm making a 20 player arena based FPS shooter, I might as well go with UDK because out of the box it has templates and a lot of community discussion surrounding making FPS games and it has a history of being for that, the engine will present low friction for this problem set. If I try to make an FPS game in game maker or from scratch in C++, I'm going to be miserable and have to basically reinvent every single wheel.

Every system your game needs, that your engine may or may not make easy on you, needs to interact well with its dependent systems & providers at run-time and also be maintainable and ideally compartmentalized, you don't want to realize half way through development that upgrading your engine to the latest upstream (which comes with features you've been begging for) will break literally everything because you were coding around undocumented potentially-is-actually-a-bug behavior in the engine because you didn't really grok the intent outlined in the documentation and naively code-bashed your way into a solution. developers in all software need to develop a 6th sense for what "smells bad" when trying to make a framework do something it wasn't meant for, leading you to overarchitect some things in some cases, but also make extreme but convenient and well-weighed short-cuts in others. this specific skill along with the ability to set expectations reasonably ( ) is at the crux of being a good software developer.

Realistically it is impossible to design perfect game systems in a vacuum that you can plug and play together with any sort of configuration, there's always a compromise or some sort of edge case you're introducing with other systems and you end up having to write a bunch of special edge case marshalling to do things like: translate between one spacial system to another, or have one set of physics objects follow one set of rules while another set of physics objects follows another. and the way you implement these systems will concrete you into behavior that will exclude other potentialities for designs in the game.

Now let's talk about Crytek and Cryengine. Cryengine specifically set out to solve one very specific set of problems in game development: rendering huge amounts of space & geography efficiently and having such large space also work sanely in multiplayer. This made it naturally suited for cool homebrew games like Mechwarrior: Living Legends. The engine already had existing frameworks for things such as controlling vehicles, rendering day/night cycles, complex shader techniques for mapping textures onto bump maps in a way that doesn't stretch, conveniences in the editor for editing large amounts of geometry and placing & rendering roads (entire white papers exist for rendering/editing roads sanely in bump-map engines lol).

That said, it's clear why at first glance Cryengine seemed like a good fit for SC, you have huge swathes of space as a game problem you need to solve, lo and behold Cryengine offers a partial solution at first glance. Cryengine also featured some zero-g segments at times, which I'm sure made Chris Robert's eyes pop out of his loving sockets on one of his major coke fueled gaming benders in a sad poorly furnished mcmansion somewhere.

It's not insanely difficult, if you have any game programming experience, to hop into an engine like Cryengine and start prototyping some things. Let's create a blank level, let's make the skybox be a nice starry sky texture, let's set gravity to 0, let's subclass the vehicle class and drop in one of our models. The engine is very low friction for this hello world smoke test. So you start flying around in your lovely 3d mesh and are feeling like a programming/game development god, zooming around thinking "Wow this is gonna be EASY", then you fly to far down on the Y axis and start drowning. "what the gently caress" you whisper as you squint. It's too late though, your boss, Chris Roberts, saw this early smoke test of assets and quickly started drafting up earnest estimates on how long OTHER systems will take, as if the demo you threw together is actually complete (when it's not). If you dont know how to hire devs you might put a senior dev in place who also doesn't grok how much actual work is left to be done and enforces your boss' stupid promises based on what isn't real game development. Guns are now pointed at you to fix the "small" issue or you'll be holding up the schedule (that no one consulted you about). so you work a weekend and dive into wtf happens when Y axis < CRY_WATER_LINE_HEIGHT. You find an instance in the base player controller logic and fix it, thinking you're done, but -- gently caress it turns out the physics subsystem also uses that same CRY_WATER_LINE_HEIGHT constant to do some optimizations, so you start grepping the code for that code instance and try flipping it off, except you don't realize there are some extra subsystems hidden somewhere that don't reference that constant like they should also do their own weird rendering tricks or optimizations when Y approaches that magic value.

there's a phrase in software development and especially games: 90% of the time is spent on the last 10% of polish. the last mile problem is super loving real in gamedev, seemingly tiny things in the grand scope of what you're delivering can make or break your game experience for players, and it's always those "tiny" things that are the results of weird edge cases from literally hundreds of subsystems interacting with eachother through the engine.

now, take the water example and apply it to basically everything. most likely every single system in cryengine has some kind of limit to what it was built to do originally and there are always unexpected results when you push engines into territory they werent developed for or tested for. now if you consider how Chris is pushing people to ship lovely demos and move on instead of developing a strong foundation for the rest of the game: you start to imagine how one could half rear end a system for an effect in demo and how "ok but it wont work outside of this or with any of the other things we talked about" might fall on deaf ears to a demonstrable cant-actually-delegate-or-listen-to-reason dingus like CRoberts.

now i want to introduce the final nail in the coffin. I could write like an essay on the basic MMO problem space but I wont, i'll keep it simple: MMOs are one of the hardest possible problems to tackle in a game development context from a resource management perspective. the amount of resource expertise (developers, architects, planning) and continued cost of servers and CPU/network time are as big as it gets in game development, and not only that but your game needs to be architected incredibly precisely to fit into the featureset your MMO imagination describes. you really can spare no unnecessary complexity when attempting an MMO, your scope needs to be VERY specific for your first release ( )

Even on a basic employee headcount level, Star Citizen doesn't employ nearly the number of experienced developers required for a project of this size, not only that but we all have plenty of evidence as to CRobert's awful management styles given how many rewrites and "refactors" occur for even the existing unfinished systems. there are clear, glaring signs of bad software development planning and inexperienced game developers rushing a product (while senior ones seem to keep leaving , weird!! ).

absolutely none of this is conducive to shipping the PU as shitizens imagine. they will never see their game. making games is really complicated, making multiplayer games is even MORE complicated, making MASSIVELY multiplayer games is THE most resource intensive & complicated from a project management perspective.

this is a good post from 40 pgs ago

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:49

Solarin: Nov 15, 2007

wow twice

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:51

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Meridian posted:

I would just like to point out that MoMA is generally terrible aside from having a great pallate, but he hasn't managed to get himself banned twice.

Only because Derek was too magnanimous to ban him

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:51

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# ? May 14, 2024 15:27

Booourns: Jan 20, 2004; Please send a report when you see me complain about other posters and threads outside of QCS

~thanks!

Has any other single thread on the rest of the forums ever led to as many bans for doxxing as this one?
I wonder what makes it special

# ? Apr 12, 2017 06:54

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